Drift lower or decade of flattening is best-case scenario for housing, Ritholtz

Barry Ritholtz sees a grim future for America's housing market with either a drift lower or a decade of flat pricing.

Irvine Home Address … 3892 CLAREMONT St Irvine, CA 92614

Resale Home Price …… $425,000

I took my love and I took it down

I climbed a mountain and I turned around

And I saw my reflection in the snow covered hills

'Till Landslide brought me down

Stevie Nicks — Landslide

Prices have fallen in a landslide, and owners everywhere find themselves buried under mountains of debt. Some will reflect on their circumstances and realize their own foolish expectations for appreciation prompted them to borrow until the market brought them down. Some will not. Digging out after the landslide will be difficult because the market is not going to elevate people back to an equity position on its own. Borrowers are going to have to dig themselves out by paying down their debts.

Back in March of 2009, I wrote the post, Real Estate's Lost Decade. Many have noted the similarities between our policy responses to the credit bubble and Japan's of the 1990s.

Japan simultaneously inflated massive financial bubbles in real estate and stocks during the late 1980s. The slow deflation of this bubble and the general economic malaise that impacted Japan during the years that followed became known as the “Lost Decade.” The United States is facing a similar set of circumstances in the aftermath of the Great Housing Bubble. So far, we have been following the same policy actions as the Japanese did. Perhaps our officials have come to believe a Lost Decade is preferable to the next Great Depression.

Today, I want to demonstrate how easy it would be to have a similar result in our own housing market. By lowering interest rates to artificially low levels, the Federal Reserve hopes to stabilize the housing market; however, weaning the housing market off these subsidies will need to be a slow process to prevent real estate prices from taking another nosedive. Gradually increasing interest rates back to long-term norms will result in an erosion of buying power that prevents price appreciation. I want to be clear about the implications of this; we are not looking at a decade to get back to peak prices, we are looking at a decade of stagnate prices at the bottom.

I included the following chart as a projection of the future:

The Lost Decade

Realistically, no market ever goes totally flat. Although Irvine is heading down that road right now.

When considering the options facing policy makers, the powers-that-be decided further price drops were preferable to letting prices fall to market-clearing levels. I discussed those options in a February 2009 post titled, Fire and Ice.

First, let's take off the table any ideas of a return of sustained or rapid appreciation before prices return to fundamental valuations. The only people who suggest such ideas are self-serving liars and those who chose to believe them. Anything is possible, but this outcome is so unlikely that I will not waste any print discussing it.

Irvine Fire and Ice Scenarios

Above is a look at the Fire and Ice scenarios for Irvine median home prices. There is a tendency when looking at charts like this one to assume that one scenario is aggressive and the other conservative, so the truth must be in the middle. Don't make that assumption. Prices could easily crash below fundamental valuations as I described in How Bad Could Bad Get. If you think this is not possible, I suggest you check out Christopher Thornberg's predictions (PDF) he just delivered to the BIA of Orange County. He is predicting a 32+% decline from today's prices, that is over 50% off the peak. He is more bearish than I am; he may be right.

Take a look at the grey line in the graph above. That is the fundamental value. It is calculated based on income growth (which has now stopped), 6% interest rates, and a 30-year conventionally-amortized, fixed-rate mortgage with a 20% down payment and a 28% DTI. That is where house prices would be if we would not have had a real estate bubble. The Federal Reserve is working to raise this line by lowering interest rates, but even a drop to 4.5% will not raise it enough to intersect those falling lines at a significantly higher price point. Prices will fall to this line before they find support.

Those predictions were made two and a half years ago. Each of these scenarios is playing out somewhere in America. The Armageddon scenario is happening in Las Vegas.

The Fire scenario is playing out in most of the US.

And the Ice scenario is happening here in Orange County.

I am not the only market observer and analyst to reach these same conclusions.

“Drift Lower” Is BEST-Case Scenario for Housing, Ritholtz Says

By Peter Gorenstein | Daily Ticker – August 12, 2011

“An economy in which you have homeless people and empty homes doesn't make any sense and that's where we're heading,” Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz told the Daily Ticker earlier this week.

With home prices continuing to fall in most of the country and sales volume off 13% last quarter compared to prior year, the housing problem, if not getting worse, is certainly still a major mess for America.

True, foreclosure filings dropped 35% last month – to the lowest level in four years – says RealyTrac, but that is in part due to a bottleneck of proceedings caused by the robo-signing induced moratorium.

The data suggests home prices will continue to drift lower for a couple of years – maybe just go sideways for a decade,” says FusionIQ CEO Barry Ritholtz, who predicts another jump in foreclosures unless and until the weak jobs market picks up.

I agree with Barry to a point. Regardless of what happens in the jobs markets, foreclosures are going to pick up again because the shadow inventory is so large. I agree with Barry that if the job market doesn't pick up, we will see another jump in delinquencies which are the precursor to more foreclosures.

In fact, there are so many delinquent homes and underwater homeowners the federal government is looking into renting their share of them in an attempt to stabilize home prices and ravaged neighborhoods. The Federal Housing Finance Agency says it is seeking input from investors on how to rent the 248,000 homes the owned by government-controlled mortgage firms Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FMCC) and the Federal Housing Administration.

Ritholtz is not convinced of the programs merits, based on the governments track record as landlords. “The federal government has subsidized and built low income housing and rented it,” he says. “It hasn't been a successful program for them I hate to see them go down that same road.”

Ritholtz has another idea: Attract new homeowners to the country. He suggests the government should reduce the anti-immigrations measures created after the 9/11 attacks and allow more skilled workers to immigrate into the country. “You want to get rid of excessive supply, the way to do it is to create demand,” he says.

The government and the federal reserve has done everything it can to create demand by lowering interest rates, printing money, and exploding the national debt. The only thing they can do further is to follow Paul Krugman's advice and spend, spend, spend until the voters take the checkbook away.

Make it easier for educated people to live the American dream and those homes will be filled, Ritholtz declares. “That to me makes much more sense than getting into the business of being landlords.”

Below is the interview with Barry Ritholtz. Remember the post, Should the GSEs rent REO instead of selling at very low prices? These guys think having the GSEs becoming America's landlord is a very bad idea.

Day after day, I relay the grim truth of the problems in the housing market. I am not anti-ownership as I am buying properties in Las Vegas and helping my family do the same. And I am not a permabear as I am very bullish on buying Las Vegas real estate. Buying and holding real estate can be very emotionally and financially rewarding, but only if the price is right, and only if the motivation is not to capture appreciation and its associated HELOC booty. If I sound like a broken record, its because I don't want to see people repeat the mistakes of the housing bubble.

Prices are not going up any time soon. Don't buy real estate because you think they will be.

$322,000 in MEW without spending a dime on improvements

The owners of today's featured property paid about $256,000 back in 1999 (the actual purchase price is an estimate from tax data and loan data). They used a $248,000 first mortgage and a $$7,000 down payment. They refinanced on 5/14/2002 with a $270,000 first mortgage and withdrew their tiny down payment.

On 10/7/2005, they refinanced with a $570,000 first mortgage. Since they obviously did not spend this money on home improvements, where did the $300,000 go?

They didn't save it to make future loan payments.

Foreclosure Record

Recording Date: 09/07/2010

Document Type: Notice of Sale

Foreclosure Record

Recording Date: 06/04/2010

Document Type: Notice of Default

They have been squatting since early 2010.

This property is in what used to be known as Culverdale, now known as Westpark I. It was built in the early 70s adjacent to the 5 freeway at Culver drive. I profiled a house on this street in September of 2007 in a post aptly titled, You Ugly.

Parts of my description of that house also applies to today's featured property:

This listing is the least desirable single family detached home in Irvine. Everything about this property is a negative:

  • It is 36 years old. (now 40 years old)
  • There is no back yard. …
  • The house itself is right on the 405 on ramp at Culver. A location guaranteed to have maximize noise and air pollution as people accelerate onto the freeway.
  • If that wasn't bad enough, it is adjacent to a huge power pole with enough electricity running through it to make your hair stand on end and give your children brain cancer. Perhaps the hum of the power lines drowns out the freeway noise. Who knows?

I would not live in this house.

At $179/SF, someone will perceive this to be a bargain and buy the property. With all its negatives, there is still a price where someone will deal with its issues in order to live in Irvine. Perhaps $425,000 is the right number? Even an FHA buyer could live here for about $2,200 per month. Someone will probably buy it as a rental. It may even be cashflow positive, a rarity in Irvine. Personally, I will pass.

——————————————————————————————————————————————-

This property is available for sale via the MLS.

Please contact Shevy Akason, #01836707

949.769.1599

sales@idealhomebrokers.com

Irvine House Address … 3892 CLAREMONT St Irvine, CA 92614

Resale House Price …… $425,000

Beds: 5

Baths: 2

Sq. Ft.: 2376

$179/SF

Property Type: Residential, Single Family

Style: Two Level, Contemporary

View: Faces North, Faces South

Year Built: 1971

Community: Westpark

County: Orange

MLS#: P792026

Source: SoCalMLS

On Redfin: 3 days

—————————————————————————–

WESTPARK — PRICED WAY BELOW MARKET BECAUSE BUYER WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT DEFERRED MAINTENANCE TO REPAIR. .. .MAJOR FIXER SOLD 'AS-IS' — SHORT SALE. Large home with FIVE bedrooms and 'great bones' with potential! Front courtyard/patio entry. Formal living room w/ beautiful stairway needs finish detail; formal dining room converted to large storage/walk-in pantry. Informal eating area off kitchen to Den/Family Room. Inside laundry room. Garage with work areas. Enclosed patio/workshop — can be converted back. Rear yard w/ raised garden planters. Large master bedroom & dressing area & small walk-in closet. Three other bedrooms + another LARGE bedroom suite upstairs. Attic space w/ pull-down stairs. Diamond in the rough! Home needs lots of TLC and a buyer with vision! INVESTOR's FLIP opportunity. EXCELLENT SCHOOLS. .. walk the kids!

——————————————————————————————————————————————-

Proprietary IHB commentary and analysis

The realtor is so desperate they are even appealing to flippers. Funny.

Resale Home Price …… $425,000

House Purchase Price … $255,670

House Purchase Date …. 4/27/1999

Net Gain (Loss) ………. $143,830

Percent Change ………. 56.3%

Annual Appreciation … 4.1%

Cost of Home Ownership

————————————————-

$425,000 ………. Asking Price

$14,875 ………. 3.5% Down FHA Financing

4.19% …………… Mortgage Interest Rate

$410,125 ………. 30-Year Mortgage

$116,389 ………. Income Requirement

$2,003 ………. Monthly Mortgage Payment

$368 ………. Property Tax (@1.04%)

$0 ………. Special Taxes and Levies (Mello Roos)

$89 ………. Homeowners Insurance (@ 0.25%)

$472 ………. Private Mortgage Insurance

$75 ………. Homeowners Association Fees

============================================

$3,007 ………. Monthly Cash Outlays

-$315 ………. Tax Savings (% of Interest and Property Tax)

-$571 ………. Equity Hidden in Payment (Amortization)

$22 ………. Lost Income to Down Payment (net of taxes)

$73 ………. Maintenance and Replacement Reserves

============================================

$2,216 ………. Monthly Cost of Ownership

Cash Acquisition Demands

——————————————————————————

$4,250 ………. Furnishing and Move In @1%

$4,250 ………. Closing Costs @1%

$4,101 ………… Interest Points @1% of Loan

$14,875 ………. Down Payment

============================================

$27,476 ………. Total Cash Costs

$33,900 ………… Emergency Cash Reserves

============================================

$61,376 ………. Total Savings Needed

——————————————————————————————————————————————————-

35 thoughts on “Drift lower or decade of flattening is best-case scenario for housing, Ritholtz

  1. JK

    I know CA is a non-recourse state but when you refinance like that is the loan still non-recourse then?
    If it isn’t couldn’t banks go after these people later down the line?

    1. tazman

      Yes, any HELOC or cash-out refi becomes a recourse loan in Cali… the problem is, if you’re a bank, is how do you manage that many lawsuits and is it worth it? Because if you get the judgement the former loan owner can just file BK and make it go away…

      1. Swiller

        Yes, you can treat your home like a business. You can be irresponsible to the max, yet just stiff the creditors and declare BK 13, have your buddy buy the business, and reform.

        Works for business why not the rest of America?

        Taxes at one of the lowest points in history, and union membership is around what…15-20%? Neo-cons should be jizzing in their pants and the world should be right as rain because the plutocrats have everything their way….keep bashing unions and make sure the rich pay zero taxes, and watch what happens to America.

          1. Swiller

            The evil force is strong in you Darth. Your power is great to read minds and judge another so, I cower in your presence.

            -Luke

            P.S. Can you use your force power to raise the value of my home and stock portfolio?

  2. wheresthebeef

    Like the article mentioned, I think it’s becoming more evident by the day that home prices will either be flat or go down for the forseeable future. Unless you absolutely NEED a house right now, there really isn’t any hurry to buy…especially in still inflated areas. What is latest word on TIC’s Laguna Altura? Have sales improved at all or did they run out of FCBs?

    1. P

      I’ve been curious about this for a while. We went to visit three weeks after it opened and they had sold only a few. My husband stoped by last week and was told all of Phase I has been sold out.

      I like Laguna Altura, but having construction nearby for the next two/three years isn’t something I would like to live with on a daily basis.

      1. Swiller

        Wow, who told your husband phase 1 was sold out? Last I had heard, only 6 or 7 units were sold, and a few of those….well I heard ALL of those, were sold to people with ties to TIC to help make it look like there is *some* demand.

        I’m still a firm believer that Bren knows the real estate development of Irvine is done and over with, and he is developing the last shreds and getting rid of a asset in decline.

        BTW, those homes in Altura are not acceptable. There are virtually no yards and they are spaced together and like monopoly buildings. It’s a crying shame, almost a crime, how fast Bren raped the land into concrete cookie cutter buildings. No one will ever ride down Sand Canyon with the orange blossoms completely filling the air, indeed, there are no orange groves left at all.

        1. P

          It was the sales office that told my husband. IrvineRenter clarified how they report the numbers – and that makes a lot more sense than what the office said.

          Personally, I don’t mind the location of LA. And while cramped and overpriced, I don’t find the homes any different than any other Irvine home. All of them are tract homes, which something that one accepts when moving to Irvine.

    2. irvine_home_owner

      Haven’t been there since opening day (shocker!) but indicators look like they are not selling well.

      They are offering broker co-op and have inventory listed on the MLS… something that didn’t happen in Woodbury’s 2010 Collection.

      Their first 3 tracts are way overpriced (and recycled from Stonegate), the 4th and highest tract may be reasonably priced compared to Quail Hill homes of the same size… but their floorplans aren’t very good. Who pays over $1mil for a non-view/water adjacent house with only a 2-car garage? C’mon!!!

    3. IrvineRenter

      The numbers I have seen aren’t very good. Last report was that they closed on 6 units. Sales have been very poor since about May 15th, not that sales were great before then either, but since May 15th, sales have dropped off a cliff.

      1. P

        Do you think they are misrepresenting the numbers, then? I know it’s a sales office, but it would seem wrong to give out such blatantly incorrect info…oh wait…

        1. zubs

          don’t worry…they will call or email you if a buyer drops out…All those sold buttons on the map must be real buyers right?

        2. IrvineRenter

          Builders publish sales numbers when contracts are signed not when houses close. In 2010, they reported 1200 sales while only 642 closed.

  3. BD

    I’ve said the same thing for years…. we probably pulled 10-20 yrs of appreciation forward. In addition, if rates rise slowly from here out we will see even more pressure on pricing. Imagine an 8% rate…

    My .02

    BD

    1. IrvineRenter

      As interest rates go up, it better be accompanied by rampant wage inflation, or the pricing pressure will continue. Given the high unemployment rate, I don’t see wage inflation on the horizon.

      1. awgee

        It will not be accompanied by wage inflation. It will be accompanied by higher prices for food and energy.

    2. irvine_home_owner

      Are rates going to go up anytime soon?

      Seems everyone keeps talking about rising rates but the gov and the banks aren’t listening.

  4. irvine_home_owner

    IR:

    What would those previous graphs look like adjusted for the gubinterbenshun?

    Are we close to bottom now? In my daily Redfin searches, it does feel like Irvine is still dropping. Maybe we are going to party like 1999.

    Quiz time: What show are those American Gothic Asian cartoon characters from? (Those with children should know)

  5. DJ

    I am in a delimma. I am paying $2500/month rent which is $30,000/year. I have the cash to either put down a big downpayment or pay cash outright. My bank CD where the cash is parked is paying 0.5% last time I checked. Should I buy or keep paying my landlord’s retirement?

    1. IrvineRenter

      There are properties trading at or below rental parity in Irvine, particularly for someone like yourself who can put at least 20% down and avoid mortgage insurance. Unfortunately, the only areas where I am seeing prices at or below rental parity are El Camino Real, and parts of Northwood, Deerfield, and Woodbridge. The best parts of Irvine are still inflated with some neighborhoods being very inflated. If you look outside of Irvine, finding properties at or below rental parity are much more common and the properties are more desirable.

    2. Marc

      I was in exactly the same situation. I don’t expect another significant drop in prices and hated to write a $2,400 check every month to my landlord while my savings were actually earning a negative return due to inflation. Therefore I bought a house a little south of Irvine in january and am very happy with my decision (so far) :-). No doubt, it is a risky time to buy but I don’t see things as negative as a lot of people who post here. I think that coastal SoCal is a desirable area to live in (which creates demand) and prices have reached a level that makes RE affordable for people with reasonable incomes and savings who did not get burned in the bust…

    3. fumbling

      I was in the same dilemma earlier this year, we had enough in CDs for a big down payment or outright purchase and had been paying for Donald Bren’s retirement for three years, the damn rent kept going up and the damn CD rates kept going down so we decided to buy after Irvine condos fell 30%. Even if our condo goes down in value a bit more, at least we don’t have to deal with the hassle and stress of having to explain to the leasing office that they shouldn’t increase the rent in a bad economy. The only housing monthly expense increases we have to worry about now are HOA and property tax increases, which won’t happen every year and dollar-wise should be pretty small compared to normal apartment rent increases.

  6. zubs

    Some realestate is already at rental parity or below it..(vegas). Find a place that is at rental parity or below it and buy it. You can ask the owners of this blog for that help.

    1. DJ

      But isn’t rental parity is computed assuming minimum downpayment and financing the rest? My situation seems to be rent versus interest earned from the bank. My rent is obviously a lot more than what I can get from the interest.

      1. zubs

        I use rental parity to see if a house is likely to appreciate or depreciate. That is all I use it for, and even then it’s all guess work….but I just want the best guess possible as it is only 1 financial indicator out of thousands.

  7. chuckconners

    Fannie Mae is already renting properties to the former underwater home “owner”,right here in Orange County. You wouldnt know the title has been transferred on your neighbors home unless he/she blabbed about money problems or you checked county records online. No pesky For Sale sign. Easy Lease terms.For those of us who had a slight (65,000)reduction in income. Sorry, no second leins on property need apply.Too much paperwork for Ol Fannie.

  8. EMcx3

    If you can pay cash and you want to buy, you should consider the court house steps. The 15-20% discount you can find on a foreclosure auction would go a long way in protecting you from future price erosion. As you said, it’s unlikely that you make any returns in a bank.

  9. ozajh

    DJ,

    First things first. You need to cold-bloodedly calculate how long you expect (not hope; EXPECT) to live and work in the general area.

    If that number is more than 5 years, consider buying if you can find an appropriate property. If not, don’t even think about it.

    As others have pointed out, you are in a highly untypical situation and the opportunity cost of using your cash holdings as a down-payment is very low and not likely to increase significantly in the short/medium term.

  10. Elle

    But don’t you think prices are going to be driven down again once they lower the jumbo loan limit, or whatever that thing is, in October? Shouldn’t you wait to buy? see what happens?

  11. American War Criminals & Fraudsters

    “Drift lower or decade of flattening is best-case scenario for housing”

    Curiously, this is ALSO the best-case scenario for the United States of America itself too.

    Enjoy your national COLLAPSE America, you’ve EARNED IT!!!

Comments are closed.