House price double dip accelerating: bottom follows capitulation

May 2nd, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by Laura Louzader
2011-05-02 04:53 AM

These owners sound like cash-strapped people who bought only for fear of “losing out” and being priced out of the rental market as housing prices continued to rise rapidly. It’s sad to take on a 2nd mortgage just for a tiny one-bed apt.

I hope they escape without too much damage. I’m seeing incredible drops in condo prices in my own neck of the woods, which is the most overbuilt condo market in the nation (Chicago), worse even than Las Vegas or Miami. They may not be making land anymore, but the only limitation on how many condos you could stuff onto a parcel of land was limited only by the local (corrupt as hell) zoning board.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-05-02 08:22 AM

Has the Illinois corruption contributed to overbuilding? Corruption in Louisiana allowed housing to be built where Katrina could wipe it out. In Miami, it was part corruption and part an attitude that all development is good development. In Las Vegas, they were just plain stupid. It wouldn’t surprise me that local officials in Chicago with it’s history of corruption would approve bad projects for the wrong reasons.

Astute Observation by Laura Louzader
2011-05-02 03:50 PM

Our corruption had a minor part in it, mostly by zoning everything multifamily that important political donors wanted zoned that way.

But I don’t believe it was the major factor. It looks to me like all the major cities- Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, as well as smaller ones, saw gross overbuilding simply because of the way the financial machine worked, in that there was ALWAYS the money to build, and always the FHA loans for buyers in new and recently converted developments. That’s why so many developers gut-rehabbed beautiful old buildings instead of merely restoring them and renovating the mechanical elements and replacing old windows and such. If they could call them “new construction”, they could offer special financing packages available only for new construction.

Astute Observation by winstongator
2011-05-02 08:36 AM

I would need some sort of quantitative assessment to believe the Chicago condo market is more overbuilt than Miami.  Although Miami has its own FCBs (mostly from South America, Europe and Canada), it’s got a ton of condos.

I think people in SoFla believed the story.  They had great incentive to.  What is HELOC money if home prices fall?  Developers are and have always been very powerful down there.

Astute Observation by Laura Louzader
2011-05-03 08:32 PM

They pretty much own Chicago, too, as well as most other cities, else the abominable Trump Tower, would never have been built on a totally unsuitable site alongside the Chicago River, where it is massively out-of-scale to the surrounding historic high rises with their delicate ornamentation and relatively small scale. This horrid building destroys the sight lines along Michigan Ave and seems much, much too big in every way.

The corruption in building code enforcement was truly scary. One smallish building of $1M condos on the west side had to be evacuated because the building was literally about to collapse. These buyers may never get restitution and their cases will be in the courts for years. Many of the high rises in the south loop have serious construction problems, notably water seepage (which is almost incurable even with millions of $$ in remediation), as well as numerous other issues.

Many people have become afraid to buy anything built in the past 10 years because of shoddy construction thrown up to meet the swelling demand of the boom years, and because newly constructed or converted condos do not have stable associations and are excessively burdened with liens, foreclosures, and HOA arrears, for which remaining owners are liable. You’re buying into a situation where your liability is unlimited, and, just as in Miami, one bank at least has blacklisted several buildings, making it impossible to get financed to buy in them. This doesn’t do a lot for the saleability of vacant units.

We’re also laughably overbuilt in mansions priced $3M to $6M in neighborhoods like Lincoln Park and newly developed areas on the West Side that twenty years ago were post-industrial slums. I wonder if the developers who built these places on spec ever bothered to get a work-up of the demographics in these supposedly wealthy areas. One look at www.zipskinny.com, which shows that even wealthy LP has a median income of less than $100K, might have given them a clue that there weren’t as many qualified buyers for these places as they thought. Many of these homes have sat vacant for years, now.

But the developers figured they were using Other People’s Money, so what did they care?

Astute Observation by Party in the USA
2011-05-02 08:19 AM

I would have thought $1 million would buy you more in Abbottabad?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/osama-bin-ladens-compound-after-attack-in-abbottabad-video/2011/05/02/AF3FcSYF_blog.html

Hey, PR, is Abbottabad the Irvine of Pakistan?

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-05-02 09:16 AM

“I predicted that prices would fall between 2% and 5% this year. The consensus estimates are finally catching up to me. My detractors have inaccurately labled [sic] me as bearish.”

I’m sorry IR but 2-5% is not what I consider to be ‘bearish’. Try at least 20%.

As for your detractors calling you ‘bearish’, they might need to stop cultivating what they’re smoking cuz 2-5% drop ain’t that hard to reach after QE2 (well, there might be a QE3…4…5…and beyond).

Astute Observation by DarthFerret
2011-05-02 01:25 PM

Chris: “I’m sorry IR but 2-5% is not what I consider to be ‘bearish’. Try at least 20%.

IR predicted a 2-5% decline in 2011 ALONE. He’s not saying the decline will stop there. He hasn’t said prices won’t drop up to 20% from here (hasn’t specifically said they will either).

Are you predicting a 20% price decline in 2011 alone? That would be an extraordinary prediction.

-Darth

Astute Observation by Kevdiego
2011-05-02 09:28 AM

Anyone have a notion of what rents are going to do in this downturn? I keep hearing that rents are going to go up here in San Diego, but I get the feeling it’s the same kind of bullshit rumor as “home prices always go up.”. The rents here are already too high, with a large share of renters paying 50% of their income to rent. Same unsustainable formula as housing costs?

Astute Observation by Chuck Ponzi
2011-05-02 02:11 PM

Rents are tied to incomes because they are paid out of cash.  If you want to know what’s going on with rents, look at incomes.

They’ve been pretty flat for the better part of a decade.  I doubt they’re going anywhere anytime soon.  (small increases each year at best)

Astute Observation by HenryE
2011-05-02 12:50 PM

I think it depends on where in San Diego you’re talking about.  I live in SD and as I’m sure you know, the market is really differentiated by area.  In the worst hit areas, it’s now cheaper to buy than to rent.

But I would say that the San Diego economy seems to be doing OK.  Not great, but it doesn’t feel like a recession any more, so I don’t imagine rents will be dropping.  Actually, it feels like rents have been pretty stable throughout the whole decade, even while home prices bubbled up and then crashed.

H

Astute Observation by tlc8386
2011-05-02 01:34 PM

Ben Bernanke has done everything to keep rates low and he continues to do so until we clean up the banks and debt load. Keeping rates so low and prices stable forces many back into the markets.
While the banks continue to repair their books.

We are held captive to the debt because without our financal markets we are not the leaders in the world so it was do whatever it takes. And Bernanke did just that. We won’t see the last shoe to drop until oil and commodites get so high and the dollar drops so low that Bernanke has no choice but to raise short term interest rates. Which he just indicated is still in his control.

Housing will continue to meet the market in some areas where DTI and rents intersect. IN the high end where there is short supply and high demand will still hold a higher price tag. Those homes are usually cash buyers and with the stock market up so much there are plenty of those folks.

We will always have a prime area where folks want to live.

The largest problem is how long can we all hold out and wait, demand can out stip supply here in CA.  jmo

Astute Observation by tlc8386
2011-05-02 01:58 PM

the real crooks

http://huffpostfund.org/stories/2010/12/wall-street-quietly-creates-new-way-profit-homeowner-distress

Astute Observation by Matthew
2011-05-02 04:42 PM

I live in Chicago as well and have been looking for a condo. I like my realtor, but I am sick to death of the propaganda of “now is a good time to buy” and “prices will rise”. I am a buyer this season, but I want straight talk not BS. There are real personal reasons to buy now til December because I will inhieret cash and there are tax benefits and the trustee is actually advising me to and will work out the tax benefit accordingly as we restructure the trust. I see the threshold. When a condo monthly cost is about half of rental comp it is a logical investment, many properties reach that threshold but most have a ways to go. I will likely negotiate a 35% rent comp deal and live there for over five years. Because when the real deals hit the market it goes in less than a week.

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-05-03 05:41 AM

“When a condo monthly cost is about half of rental comp it is a logical investment ...”

Matthew: You might want to provide an example or re-check your math.

I don’t often see condo pricing at less than rent - the whole point of condos is to fleece the “owner.”

Astute Observation by BlowMeAmerica
2011-05-05 01:51 PM

Massive student debt, lack of Rule of Law, rampant financial fraud, undealt-with war crimes, legislative corruption, legalized torture, dwindling Constitutional & Civil Rights, a pay-to-play judiciary system, an ineffectual & captured Executive Branch, institutionalized transfer of wealth from savers to speculators; the United States of America is a CLUSTERF@CK of IRRESOLVABLE problems that mutually impede & interfere with each other.

WHY the F@CK should I spend my hard-earned money to buy a property in this SINKING SHIP when I’ll most probably need it to EMIGRATE instead?

Astute Observation by brianguy
2011-05-06 09:36 AM

torture is living in a house that’s 50% underwater.

war crimes, we’ve got much bigger problems than war crimes.  but you can be sure OHolder will make sure it’s front page news, rather than the economy, jobs, and gas prices.

dear Prez, “I’m not your stepping stone”

Astute Observation by Kevvn
2011-05-07 04:45 PM

cool grin If you do not own a house, BUY one NOW.  I enjoy watching people become slaves to their debt, id10ts….

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