You don’t need a realtor to sell property. If you know how to market and negotiate, you can do most of the work yourself; however, if you are not skilled in these areas, perhaps a little help might be in order.
Being a listing agent is where the real money is made in real estate. It takes much less time and effort, but it does take some financial risk in property marketing–although most seem to defer to the MLS and the Internet. Good agents are obsessed with obtaining listings because they know that is where the real money is.
The relationship between cost and value is debatable, but what value there is in the work of a good listing agent can be readily identified. In our modern Internet era, there are really only two things an agent needs to do: (1) obtain good property photographs, and (2) write a good property description. Any property that has those two things will sell itself on the MLS through sites like Redfin or the many others that provide MLS search capabilities. Any agent who can not do these two things well really should not get any listings.
Today’s featured property is For Sale By Owner (FSBO). As such he has probably already been contacted by dozens of agents trying to get his listing. He probably should have taken one of them up on their offer.
This property is a complete mystery to me. There is no description, the photo of the front is so bad that I cannot tell which property is for sale, and the photo of the back yard leaves more questions than it answers. This is a perfect example of how not to market a house. The only way this sells is because the inventory in Irvine is so limited that people will do their own research to find any available deal.
{book}
Just for a little fun, let’s see how many problems we can identify with the photos.
The photo of the front immediately draws your eye to a light pole. WTF?
It was taken with a fish-eye lens that distorts everything in the picture.
What s that at the base of the light pole?
Why is this so out of focus? Was it taken on a camera phone?
Are those stepping stones in the grass? They do not seem to lead anywhere.
Don’t the trees make this yard look tiny (it probably is).
I recogize that most descriptions are a useless waste of words, but give me something….
This property was purchased on 11/16/2004 for $488,000. The ower used a $390,000 first mortgage and a $98,000 downpayment. He refinanced in 2005 and took out most of his downayment with a $388,000 first mortgage and a $97,000 stand alone second.
If this property sells for its asking price–which doesn’t seem very likely–the lender will lose most of the second mortgage.
Lenders are completely in control of the pricing in many markets around California and the rest of the Country, and they control the lowest tier of the market here in Irvine. What will they do with their power?
I wanna be a boss I wanna be a big boss I wanna boss the world around I wanna be the biggest boss that ever bossed the world around
Lenders will be the bosses of the Irvine market because they will control the majority of for-sale property in the market. They already control many markets where REOs make up more than 50% of all sales. They completely control the bottom market strata here in Irvine, and as foreclosures work their way up the property ladder, they will end up controlling our entire real estate market.
Foreclosure is a four step process: (1) the borrower quits making
payments, (2) the lender issues of Notice of Default, (3) the lender
issues a notice of Trustee Sale, and (4) the foreclosure auction occurs
on the courthouse steps. Steps 1, 2 and 3 are separated by 90 days
each. At any time during this period, either the borrower can get
current with their payments, or the borrower and lender can agree to a
loan modification. If either contingency occurs, the foreclosure
process is aborted.
California passed SB1137 to force lenders to try harder to reach
borrowers in default and work out a loan modification plan. Also, the
GSEs and many large banks were on voluntary or mandated foreclosure
moratoria. This caused a dramatic decline in Notices of Default (step
2). Unfortunately, as I noted Moritorium on Defaults Announced,
stopping lenders from issuing notices does nothing to prevent borrowers
from actually defaulting (step 1). Borrowers everywhere stopped making
payments, and lenders merely stopped issuing notices about it.
I borrowed the chart below from Mish’s blog showing the delinquency rate since January of 2006 (#1 above — people who quit making payments). As you can see, there has been a steady increase in the delinquency rate. This is the first step in the foreclosure process. Unless a borrower who goes delinquent cures this delinquency, the property will work its way through the system and ultimately become REO.
In the past, people cured their delinquencies either by selling the property or borrowing the payments from another source. In today’s market, they cannot sell because they are underwater, and creditors have cut off other lines of credit; therefore, the two primary methods of curing default have been removed. Of course, this assumes that people want to cure their delinquency. When their is no equity in the property, and when the cost of ownership exceeds the cost of rental, there is little incentive to cure delinquency. In short, people walk.
Since the primary methods of curing delinquencies have been curtailed, and since the desire to cure is also diminished, the cure rate has dropped to near zero. Since the cure rate is near zero and likely to stay that way, new delinquencies will end up as foreclosures. The current delinquency rate is 9.12%. That means that over 9% of all homes with a mortgage are entering the foreclosure pipeline right now. The rate of delinquency is still getting worse.
In the astute observations last week, Dafox posted a link to Orange County foreclosure data. One of the charts created from this data is shows the number of NODs and foreclosures with the foreclosure numbers shifted by one year to account for the duration of the foreclosure process. I have taken the delinquency chart based on national data and guestimated the loan delinquency rate in Orange County based on national trends. I combined the two data sources into the chart below.
The purpose of the chart is to illustrate the pipelines of inventory currently working its way through the system. Remember just because a lender hasn’t filed a NOD does not mean people are not going delinquent on their payments; these properties make up the “Delinquency Inventory.” The foreclosure tsunami will continue to build until delinquencies stop rising and actual foreclosures catch up. There are no “green shoots” here.
Another kind of inventory known as “pipeline inventory” is the number of properties moving from NOD through to foreclosure. These properties will become REO unless the loans are cured.
The chart demonstrates that lenders were processing their foreclosures as they were obtaining them through mid 2007; there was little delinquency or pipeline inventory. In late 2007 as the various foreclosure moratoria began, lenders began falling behind on their filing of NODs and their foreclosure processes.
The foreclosure moratoria were supposed to workout
several million loans and stop people from entering the foreclosure
process. As we all know, this process has been a fiasco. The number of
loan modifications completed is a very small percentage of the number
of delinquencies, and 70% of those loan modifications default in 6
months. Other than buying the banks a little time, the foreclosure
moratoria were a failure.
The delays in foreclosure caused a buildup of properties in the system in the form of delinquency inventory and pipeline inventory. Unless the delinquencies and defaults are cured during the process–which seems unlikely–these properties will become REO.
As we all know becoming REO is only part of the story. Once a property becomes REO, it must be disposed of by the bank. The inventory owned by the bank but not being sold in the open market is known as “shadow inventory,” and estimates of this number vary widely. I cannot find a data source to verify the number, but the rumor is that there are 50,000+ bank owned properties in the five-county area of Southern California.
Add together loan delinquencies, pipeline inventory and shadow inventory, and you have a huge number of homes that will emerge from the system as must-sell inventory.
It will take years for the lenders to catch up on all the loan delinquencies they are facing because they are falling further behind every day. The result of all this inventory in the hands of lenders is a complete domination of the market by REO.
What will lenders do?
The fantasy of fence sitters everywhere is that lenders will either by choice or by force will dump large numbers of properties on the market all at one time and create so much must-sell inventory that prices roll back to the stone ages. I rather doubt 1970s prices are on the horizon. There will be regulatory pressure on the lenders to dispose of their assets, but an extreme rollback in prices would be so disruptive, that regulators will likely give the lenders some room to work off their inventories without causing a catastrophic collapse of asset values. So the question is, “How low will they go?”
Lenders are not completely stupid (kool aid insane perhaps, but not utterly clueless). Most understand cashflow valuations, and they can recognize price levels where it is cheaper for people to own than it is to rent. Once they cross that threshold, they know they can entice a renter to purchase a property from them because it really is a good deal. Depending on the desirability for long-term owner occupancy, they may have to increase their discounts in order to find a buyer, but it isn’t very likely that lenders will allow asset values to drop far below rental parity because even they recognize the value there.
IMO, once lenders gain total control of housing markets with the inventory they have, they will push prices down to rental parity and attempt to hold them there. There will be some pressure from regulators to dispose of assets, but there will be a pushback from lenders who recognize the floor of values rental parity creates. This tension will keep prices at these levels until the inventory of REO is flushed through the system.
It is hard to estimate how long this flushing process will take without hard numbers. Based on the current state of our economy, the huge number of bad loans yet to reset, and the general trend illustrated in the charts above, I would estimate we will not see a peak in foreclosures until 2012, and it will be three to five years after that before the inventory is purged from the system. It will take a decade to work off the excesses of The Great Housing Bubble.
2 Master Suites Each With Its Own Bath. Mirroed Wardrobes. Central Air
Conditioning. Inside Laundry. Extra Storage Space. Nice Patio. Carport
Mirroed?
Aurora Loan Services did not mess around with this property:
They bought it at auction on 5/8/2009 for $350,358.
Foreclosure Record Recording Date: 04/10/2009 Document Type: Notice of Sale (aka Notice of Trustee’s Sale) Document #: 2009000174390
Foreclosure Record Recording Date: 01/02/2009 Document Type: Notice of Default Document #: 2009000000595
This property is tracking right on the statutory limits. Relative to what we have been seeing, this one is on the fast track. Given the rapid deteioration of low end pricing, it is wise to get this done as quickly as possible.
Pricing of these low end properties are still above cashflow investor levels, so quick foreclosure and sale provides opportunity for the lender to bequeath future depreciation to a knife catcher.
Charming end unit. Lower level one bedroom with full bathroom and
kitchen. Inside laundry. Living room and patio area overlooking water
stream and soothing sounds of a waterfall. 1 car port. Association has
pool, spa, tennis courts and clubhouse. Excellent location next door to
Irvine Valley College. Near 5 and 405 Freeways, Irvine Spectrum
Entertainment Center, Business District, Shopping. Located in Building
# 12.
IMO, this is a well executed price drop. They started high enough to get some of their money back, after an initial look, they began methodically lowering the price, and they did so at an unpredictable interval so potential buyers could not just wait a certain number of days expecting further declines. Of course, it can be argued that such a large price drop reflects too high a starting asking price. This is probably an accurate criticism, but with as fast as the low end collapsed, it is hard to say for sure.
Date
Event
Price
Apr 20, 2009
Price Changed
$130,000
Mar 26, 2009
Price Changed
$140,000
Mar 17, 2009
Price Changed
$150,000
Mar 03, 2009
Price Changed
$160,000
Jan 08, 2009
Price Changed
$175,000
Oct 08, 2008
Listed
$180,000
Oct 29, 1997
Sold
$62,500
This property was a classic “put” to the bank. The owner paid $62,500 on 10/29/1997 using a $35,000 first mortgage and a $27,500 downpayment. She only borrowed against the property once during the bubble taking out a $20,000 loan in late 2003–that is until 7/23/2007 when she took out a $212,000 first mortgage. Her timing was great because two weeks later the credit crunch hit, and financing these properties became significantly more difficult.
Why even look for a buyer when the bank will give you 100% of peak value?
Charming one bedroom, one bathroom ground-level condo with pleasant
patio area. Unit includes washer and dryer and dual paned windows.
Water and waste included in the HOA dues.
The property was purchased at auction for $268,814 on 2/20/2009. The owners lost their $50,000 downpayment.
Foreclosure Record Recording Date: 01/05/2009 Document Type: Notice of Sale (aka Notice of Trustee’s Sale) Document #: 2009000002015
Foreclosure Record Recording Date: 08/22/2008 Document Type: Notice of Default Document #: 2008000402030
The discount on this property is remarkable: 43%. The sad part is that it is still overpriced. It is probably near rental parity, but this isn’t a property an owner-occupant wants. This must fall to cashflow investor levels, and it isn’t there yet.
{book4}
Will the Cartel Collapse?
Implicit in my belief that prices will hold at prices between rental parity and cashflow investor levels is the belief that a variety of lenders holding properties will behave as an informal cartel and hold prices at levels above where supply and demand would find its own equilibrium. Cartels are inherently unstable because each member has an incentive to cheat. There is the possibility that the collapse of cartel pricing may push prices even lower. I doubt this will happen, not because the cartel will be stable, but because I believe cashflow investors will provide sufficient demand to mop up any supply. I might be wrong.
I had the following email exchange with a mortgage broker:
Question: With our limited inventory, many affordable properties are seeing numerous
bids, sometimes over the ask. Do you think this phenomenon will stop due to the
higher rates?
Answer: This rate Tsunami hasn’t even made the news yet. When I mean news, I mean buyers don’t realize that their Pre-Qual letters are now worthless and payment expectations are shattered. Realtors also have no idea what will happen when 45% of all sales suddenly stop – meaning 1st timers will start holding back buying distressed homes. These buyers are very rate sensitive and will sit idly by waiting for rates to improve. Since rates won’t be back in the sub 4.5% range (7.0 point cost today to get a 4.5% rate!) only price reductions will make the sales perk back up. This is a 30 day problem. In other words, the fit has hit the shan and 30 days from now is when everyone will finally get a whiff of the trouble this means.
In our forums, this same broker had this to say:
Here’s how I think it’s playing out – from a cynics perspective.
Timmy G went to Beijing for a dressing down. Our Chinese Overlords
(OCO) are not going to invest long term at sub 3% rates. The short term
rate auctions last week went well, but next week comes a 3y/10y/30yr
auction that was likely to be a disaster. Timmy convinced OCO that if
the US floats rates to the upper 3’s – as they are now – that OCO
should invest. Next week you’ll either see a great Treasury auction or
a crappy one. If OCO buys a bunch, mortgage rates which are currently
way oversold will settle into the upper 4’s, low 5’s. If the auction is
a steaming pile, 6.0% mortgage rates are on their way.
That said though, of the 1.2t the Gubmint is committing to spend on
Mortgage Backed Securities, they’ve only spent 500b. A TARP’s worth of
ammo is still out there.
I think the above observations are on the mark.
We know there are a number of properties going to hit the market due to the pent up supply of the foreclosure moratoria. The price levels we will see this fall and winter will be influenced by the amount of supply, but it will largely be determined by the terms of financing and in particular mortgage interest rates. If rates go back up to 6% or higher, prices are going to fall a great deal. If they can be maintained at 5% or less, the drop will be much more subdued. We will see what happens.
Property type: Detached SFR Square footage: 3000 square feet or more Bedrooms: 4 or more Bathrooms: 3 or more Preferred enclaves in preference order: (1) Turtle Ridge, (2) Quail Hill, (3) Turtle Rock, or (4) Woodbridge Specifications: (1) View or extremely well landscaped yard (similar to 111 Nighthawk), (2) Move-in ready, and (3) Plenty of natural light. Price: 1.5 million or below — buyer is willing to pay fair market value based upon comparable properties Sample properties: 1) 30 Canyon Terrace 2) 37 Tall Hedge 3) 37 Hedgerow 4) 111 Nighthawk
If you have a property meeting these specifications you would like to sell, please contact Shevy Akason at Evergreen Realty shevy.akason@evergreenrealty.net (949) 769.1599 (This is a compensated post)
I am always amazed at the asking prices in Turtle Ridge. There are REOs and defaults everywhere and prices rolling back under $1,000,000 on high end properties, and yet there are owners like today’s who think their properties have appreciated 40% since they bought at the peak in 2006. WTF?
Busy Being Fabulous — The Eagles Do you think I don’t know that you’re out on the town With all of your high-rollin’ friends? What do you do when you come up empty? Where do you go when the party ends?
Everyone wants to be rich, right? Doesn’t everyone want to believe they made a $1,000,000 though simply owning a piece of real estate? So what happens when you find out that you and everyone in your neighborhood was simply pretending?
The conventional wisdom is that the high end will be the least impacted by the housing crash. This is wrong. It will be among the most effected; it will just happen last.
During the bubble, the more you bought, the more you made. When all properties are appreciating greatly, you wanted to buy the most property you could because in absolute dollars, buying expensive property was how you made the most money. This phenomenon caused high end properties to be bid up beyond WTF price levels. The stratospheric prices are so far above fundamental valuations, that I believe many of these neighborhoods will experience 65% declines before this debacle is done.
Today’s featured property has been the object of my gaze before. On May 8, 2008, this property has already been for sale for 204 days at an asking price of $2,975,000. You think that might have been too high?
It is good to see they have come to their senses and lowered the price to $2,688,000.
WTF?
I can’t imagine how painful it must have been for them to cut their price by over $300,000. They must feel like they are giving it away.
Isn’t everyone who bought at the peak in Turtle Ridge seeing 40% appreciation in 3 years?
THIS HOUSE IS RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED!
IT WOULD BE OVERPRICED AT $1,688,000!!!
I even wrote it in realtorspeak so everyone understands.
What do you do with people like this? How do you tactfully convey the fact that houses do not appreciate that fast even in a bull market, and the last few years have not been bullish? This listing is so far out-of-touch with reality that it should be embarrassing.
PERFECT HOME FOR ENTERTAINING! OVER $500,000 IN UPGRADES! COMPLETELY
REMODELED! LARGE FAMILY HOME WITH 5 BEDROOMS, 5 BATHS, UPPER LEVEL
MEDIA/GAMEROOM LOFT, GOURMET KITCHEN W/UPGRADED STAINLESS STEEL
APPLIANCES, GRAITE COUNTERS, TRAVERTINE FLOORS, CUSTOM MEDIA NICHES
W/SOURROUND SOUND, CLOSET ORGANIZERS, CUSTOM TILE IN ALL BATHS, CROWN
MOLDING, SECURITY, INTERCOM, PROFESSIONAL LANDSCAPING W/CUSTOM POOL,
SPA, OUTDOOR KITCHEN, FIREPLACE, OUTDOOR TV/CABLE, COURTYARD FOUNTAINS,
WATER FEATURES, UPGRADED GARAGE W/CUSTOM FLOORING, PAINT AND CROWN
MOLDING. QUITE CUL DE SAC STREET W/ GREAT NEIGHBOORS!
ALL CAP
OVER $500,000 IN UPGRADES! COMPLETELY
REMODELED! BFD!
SOURROUND? GRAITE? QUITE CUL DE SAC?
And my favorite NEIGHBOORS..
If these sellers can manage to get their asking price, the stand to make about $750,000. Isn’t that their due for owning real estate in California?
This property or a comparable one will sell for under $1,000,000 when we find the bottom.
I hope you have enjoyed this week at the Irvine Housing Blog. Be sure
to come back next week as we
continue chronicling ‘the seventh circle of real estate hell.’ Have a great weekend.