Pain — Three Days Grace

This life is filled with hurt
When happiness doesn’t work

In case you haven’t noticed, major economic disruptions are painful. It is mentally painful, emotionally painful, and sometimes physically painful. Mentally we all try to figure a way out of this mess. How can we make more money? What can we do about our current circumstances? We tie ourselves in knots trying to solve the enigma. It has no solution. These circumstances lead to emotional pain most often caused by the scarcity of money. We are unable to support our lifestyles, we have to cut back, and sometimes this is not enough. Sometimes the cutbacks are made for us. Creditors close financial lifelines, and lenders foreclose on homes. This can lead to destructive behaviors: divorces, alcoholism, smoking, and a whole host of other problems. This emotional pain leads to stress and physical pain. People start having health problems, and since they can’t afford a doctor’s visit, these problems often go unattended. In short, recessions really suck.

I was watching an HBO comedy special with Ricky Gervais the other night. In part of his routine, he was making fun of the lessons we learn in children’s stories. One of these stuck out because it speaks to today. He tells the story of the industrious mouse and the lazy mouse. The industrious mouse is busy gathering food and storing it away for the coming winter whereas the lazy mouse eats until he is full then either parties or lies around and does nothing. When winter comes, the industrious mouse is safe in his warm shelter and has plenty of food. The lazy mouse is cold, hungry and in pain. Finally the lazy mouse knocks on the door of the industrious mouse and pleads for some food and a place to stay. What does the industrious mouse do? He invites him in and gives him food and shelter.


What lesson is being learned here?

From a spiritual standpoint, the actions of the industrious mouse are the correct ones. You should always be generous in times of need, particularly if you have plenty. But what of the lazy mouse? What has he learned? He has learned that he can party and be irresponsible and some compassionate fool is going to take him in and save him. The industrious mouse did not evaluate whether or not the lazy mouse deserved to be saved, and he did not concern himself with the precedent this sets. He acted as his conscious told him. In doing so, he did a terrible disservice to the lazy mouse who is being rewarded for his bad behavior. But then again, perhaps he saved his life.

Anger and agony
Are better than misery
Trust me I’ve got a plan

When thinking about the behavior of everyone caught up in The Great Housing Bubble, it is easy to see how most were acting like the lazy mouse. They were borrowing huge sums of money, living the good life, and having no concern for tomorrow. It is winter now. There is pain ahead. There is no fruit on the money tree, and people are being thrown out of their homes. The decisions we make now as a society will have lasting implications. Do we bail out all the foolish speculators and lenders who created this mess? If we do, aren’t we guaranteeing we will see this behavior again? If we do not bail these people out, are the rest of us failing to be compassionate? Should we do more to help out our fellow man?

I don’t know what the answers are. These are questions we must grapple with as a society. It will be interesting to see what we choose.

35 Calavera kitchen

Asking Price: $819,000IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: $204,750

Downpayment Needed: $163,800

Monthly Equity Burn: $6,825

Purchase Price: $900,000

Purchase Date: 5/21/2004

Address: 35 Calevera, Irvine, CA 92606

Beds: 4
Baths: 3
Sq. Ft.: 2,400
$/Sq. Ft.: $342
Lot Size: 4,313

Sq. Ft.

Property Type: Single Family Residence
Style: Other
Year Built: 1997
Stories: 2
Area: Westpark
County: Orange
MLS#: P664897
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 3 days

Granite counters in Kitchen, Plantation shutters, Walking distance to
parks and Elementary schools. Great area of Irvine. Interior tract
location. This is a great Home!!!!!!!

Perhaps including 7 exclamation points makes this weak description look less half-assed.

This property is one of the steepest discounts we have seen at the high end to date. It is being offered for almost 10% off its 2004 purchase price. However, you need to peer into the mortgage records to see how big of a drop this really is.

  • The property was purchased on 5/21/2005 for $900,000. The owner used a $719,920 first mortgage, a $179,980 second mortgage, and a $100 downpayment. (Does anyone who rents have a security deposit smaller than this?)
  • On 8/5/2005 the owner refinanced for $990,000 taking out is whopping $100 downpayment and $90,000 for all the hard work he did being a property owner for 3 months.
  • On 4/26/2007 he took out a second mortgage for $137,390.
  • Total property debt is $1,127,390.
  • Total mortgage equity withdrawal is $227,490.
  • Total discount from peak value is 27%

As I stated previously, this is one the largest discounts we have seen on a high-end property to date. If The Bank of New York can get its asking price, and if a 6% commission is paid, the total loss on the property will be $357,530.

I wonder if the more aggressive disposition of REOs is a result of the capital infusion from the TARP program? Previously, the banks were in a more difficult capital position and unable to take some of these large write offs. With several billion dollars of government money in their possession, they can now take more write-downs and still maintain their capital ratios. We may see more of this.


Pain, without love
Pain, can’t get enough
Pain, I like it rough
‘Cause I’d rather feel pain than nothing at all

You’re sick of feeling numb
You’re not the only one
I’ll take you by the hand
And I’ll show you a world that you can understand
This life is filled with hurt
When happiness doesn’t work
Trust me and take my hand
When the lights go out you’ll understand

Pain, without love
Pain, can’t get enough
Pain, I like it rough
‘Cause I’d rather feel pain than nothing at all
Pain, without love
Pain, can’t get enough
Pain, I like it rough
‘Cause I’d rather feel pain than nothing at all

Anger and agony
Are better than misery
Trust me I’ve got a plan
When the lights go up you’ll understand

Pain — Three Days Grace

88 thoughts on “Pain

  1. Forbear

    These type of scams need to be plastered all over the evening news, perhaps then we wouldn’t worry about being compassionate. My monthly cable bill is twice their downpayment.

    1. IrvineRenter

      I hope posts like this make people see why there was so much speculation. This guy invested $100, and he made $227,490 tax free. I could calculate the internal rate of return on that investment, and it would be astronomical. If he had sold at the peak, there would have been nothing but profit. As it is, he will have credit issues, but he will still keep the money.

      1. lowrydr310

        I’d gladly take a major dent in my credit for $227,000 of cold hard cash.

        You really only need credit for a car or a house. How long does it take to clean up your record, 7 or 10 years?

        1. Perspective

          True, but many employers check the credit of prospective employees. That would concern me in this prolonged downturn, but that cost is very unlikely to outweigh the benefit of $227k for this borrower.

          1. Perspective

            I think Fannie’s guidelines now require 5 years from foreclosure. Who knows what the secondary mortgage market is going to look like a couple years from now, or what Fannie’s guidelines will be then? But if you’re walking away today, you should probably be prepared to rent for five years.

          2. Priced_out_IT_guy

            Walking away now has less to do with credit than it does with saving a down payment. During a normal real estate market, if you are foreclosed on, you still need a down payment to buy a house. For most people it takes just about as long to save up a 20% down payment as it does to re-establish a positive credit rating. This particular property owner basically has his downpayment already in the bank and can sit tight and eat nachos until his credit rating goes back up.

          3. Priced_out_IT_guy

            BTW, this is just a lesson to all the lazy mice:

            If you don’t want to bother saving 5+ years for a down payment, just wait until another housing bubble comes along, plop down $100 cash, and extract the down payment for your next house. In thise case, your down payment is $227,490!

        2. Alan

          If they actually still had the $227,000, they would hardly need credit for getting a car, or by bringing that money in as a down payment, might not have much trouble getting a house either even with a bad credit rating. In many parts of the country (especially now), they could buy a nice house outright for that sum.

          But in reality, it is less probable. The $227k profit more likely dispersed in consumption or was rolled over into additional houses and is now gone. At least I hope so. (To hell with compassion in such cases.)

    2. Mike7

      This guy is nothing but a crook. The Bank of New York got screwed and now they are looking for the honest people to pay out. I think we should leave this mouse out in the cold. Let him starve, let him die.

      1. AZDavidPhx

        Don’t forget that those of us who rent, already bail out homeowners with our income tax that is used to subsidize the interest payments to their mortgage daddies.

  2. Texas Triffid Ranch

    You know, as much as I hate to sound like a Social Darwinist, I’d feel a lot more compassion if I hadn’t dealt with far too many of the lazy mice. Scratch that: I’ve dealt far too much with unmerciful servants, especially the vermin who get bailed out time and time again but who show no mercy to anyone who owes them. I have a lot of sympathy for the lazy mice if they actually learn something from the experience, such as saving while times are good instead of blowing everything on partying. I’ve been one of those lazy mice myself, and I’ll do everything I can to help friends and cohorts that had a bad turn at the wrong time.

    The problem here is with the entitlement brats who expect that someone will always bail them out, and throw tantrums when they’re told “No” for the first time. I suspect that the lazy mice who now understand that life can’t be a nonstop party are already buckling down and realizing that it’s not going to be 1999 again for a very long time. The ones making the loudest noises, though, are the dolts who figure that the rules really don’t apply to them and that they shouldn’t be held responsible for making spectacularly stupid decisions. (In this case, I’m referring to individuals as well as businesses, as the current situation with GM and Chrysler proves.) These are the ones we’re going to have to watch over the next few years, because they’re really good at moving in, stealing all of your cheese, crapping all over the carpet, and then whining “C’mon, man, you know I’m good for it” when you threaten to kick them out until they pay up that back rent they’ve been promising to pay for the last six months.

  3. winstongator

    I think there should, if possible, be some workout between this purchaser and the lender. There will be a bigger than 10% haircut from the 2004 price, and they should figure a price/interest rate/payment that would fit. This assumes that the reason for the move is the owner being unable to afford the payment. The penalty is severe destruction of the credit rating and forfeiture of any equity increase up to the debt reduction. No new car loans, no new equity lines, no new debt period, for some # of years. Write this into the new loan, and any attempt to get a new loan without consulting the mortgage servicer is a default event bringing some penalty.

    The choice of whether to enroll in a govt program or not should be a difficult one. If it is a no-brainer choice, the govt is being to lenient.

    1. AZDavidPhx

      The penalty was recognized when the lender wired 900K over to the 2006 seller on behalf of today’s featured moron.

      The money is gone and spent. Today’s seller never intended to pay back that 900K. No, he figured he would hang on for awhile and then let the next guy pay it off for him.

      It’s probably not fair to label the bag-holder as a “moron” when they were just one of many – however, their stupidity was certainly higher than the previous. They don’t call them the “greater fool” for no reason.

      The seller needs to take a walk.

  4. lunatic fringe

    IR, the problem is that in this case the industrious mouse doesn’t have a choice as to whether to be compassionate or not, that decision is being made for him.

    In the case of the TARP, the industrious mouse gave a vehement thumbs down to the idea but self-proclaimed “fiscal conservatives” like Irvine’s John Campbell saw fit to vote for that legislation regardless. I doubt the industrious mouse will have any more say in the matter on future legislation either.

    Bailouts are never a good idea, even if they are successful. And in this case it’s doubtful the bailout will be successful.

    This industrious mouse thinks the entire situation reeks to high heaven.

  5. movingaround

    “As I stated previously, this is one the largest discounts we have seen on a high-end property to date”

    this is not high end!!! Only high end priced. Since in Irvine I have been living in apt and not much chance to see neighborhoods. Went garage saleing this weekend so saw lots of homes – most of the homes in Irvine are really nothing special – definetely not even worth 800,000.

    1. trrenter

      “this is not high end!!! Only high end priced.”

      In 1996 this place sold for 315k. With 3%,4% and 5% appreciation it would we worth 449k, 504k, 565k respectively today.

      This house somehow appreciated at a rate of about 8.5% annually.

      When this home was purchased it looked like this

      Asking Price: $315,000

      Income Requirement: $78,000

      Downpayment Needed: $63,000

      Upper middle class.

      Now you need to make over 200k to live there?

      1. ipoplaya

        Remember, 1996 was the bottom of the last recession when prices flexed below rental equivalency… It’s not a great starting point for benchmarking.

        1996 prices were the same as 1988 prices. If you take that $315K and run it back from 1987 with 4% appreciation, the place comes out at around $600K today.

        1. Walter

          Thanks ipoplaya this seems to be a more reasonable analysis. To get below $600K, we would need to be in the sometimes mentioned Great Depression II. Then watch out below…

          1. movingaround

            600 thousand means a salary of 150,000 if you use a 4X income guideline (which is high as there is no reason CA shouldn’t be the normal 3X but that is another argument). Anyway, I think someone making 150,000 a year should be able to afford this easily, not just barely. There are tons of homes this size and on this size lots in Irvine – there is no way there is the same amount of people making 150,000 a year in Irvine.

          2. Walter

            I hope you are right. I am sitting and waiting to buy and would love to get something like this for less then $600K.

            Most of the people I know that would buy something like this would be trade up buyers on 2 incomes. This makes it affordable to a good deal of the people that work in Irvine.

            With more layoffs and tight credit, many of them will also be out of the running.

        2. IrvineResident

          “Remember, 1996 was the bottom of the last recession when prices flexed below rental equivalency… It’s not a great starting point for benchmarking.”

          I suspect you don’t think we will go again “below rental equivalency”. IMHO, as hard as RE surged beyond any logic, it will plunge that hard to downside.
          Assuming market bottom in 2012 (equivalent of 1996 of the last bubble), then in 2012 it will worth 590K (= 315K*(1.04)^16 ). By your math, it will worth around 702K (= 600K*(1.04)^4)

        3. AZDavidPhx

          Ipoplaya and his magical 4% granted to all homeowners by god.

          This place will be partying like it’s 1998 within a few years.

          The weather in CA is just as nice now as it was 10 years ago.

          Buy it at 600K and you are going to eat a 6 figure loss.

          1. Boston2theBay

            I have a great job anecdote that really sums up the concern all those in soft-skill/professional services jobs face.

            I was at my kids Tae Kwon Do class and one of the moms sees a guy with an NVIDIA shirt on. She says “hi, my husband works for Nvidia. What group are you in?”
            the nice fellow replies “VLSI group. what about your husband?”
            lady replies “oh he’s in Strategic Marketing” and then goes on to lament the cancellation of their holiday party and summer party, but says her husband tells her to be thankful he has a job. The VLSI guy just smiled because he knows he has hard skills that will keep him in demand. Marketing guy’s wife can only fret. The first depts to be hit during a crunch are marketing and IT; the last to be touched are top engineering and sales talent.

            OC has a lot more strategic marketing and consulting jobs than VLSI design jobs. Tell your children to major in engineering or hard sciences. Oh, and this will roll all the way back to 1998, though it will probably take 2 knife catchers to get there.

          2. Priced_out_IT_guy

            Good point. I know a USC grad looking for a job at Target right now because this person decided to major in a fancy title for PE instead of engineering, finance, scientific studies, or another core field.

            Sure, this person’s major would have been a hit during the bubble years when would pay someone $75 an hour to watch you do ab crunches, but now that the housing ATM is broken, discretionary spending has plummeted, and we’re heading into a severe recession, suddenly work is harder to come by.

            I wonder how long it will take to pay off 4 years at USC making minimum wage?

        4. trrenter

          How can you run it back to 1987 when they were newly built int 1996-1997?

          I could take it to 100k and run it forward from 1969 as well and get the results I want.

          The fact is from the time they were built to now that price reflects an 8.5% increase year over year.

    2. Walter

      If you see no value in what Irvine has to offer, you should check out Lake Forest. A lot more house for you money and close to much of Irvine.

      1. Dave

        As much as I like Irvine, that’s why we’re still in Fullerton. Same quality schools (940 API Laguna Road Elementary, 891 at Parks Jr HS, 914 at Troy HS), *much* lower housing prices

        1. Mike7

          Fullerton is a nice place to live, I lived in Fountain Valley for a while. But once I moved to Irvine, I talked shit on the city for being so boring, and how everything closes at 9 p.m. But now that I’m used to it I think it’s much nicer than Fountain Valley and Fullerton.

          1. ockurt

            Ha ha.

            I said the same thing when I moved here.

            Now I’ve been here six years and counting.

            This place grows on you, or I’ve just become incredibly boring.

          2. Dave

            Which area you consider nicer depends on the particular neighborhood. The areas in Irvine that I’m seeing housing prices dip below $300 a square foot, which is comparable to where we live in Fullerton (Sunny Hills), are for the most part very close to either the 5 or 405 freeways. Who wants to have their kids growing up eating exhaust fumes? And how many people have quantified how much extra you pay every month over other areas in Orange County with similar schools and demographics? The Irvine Company has done a great marketing job of creating a premium product. Everyone constantly hears the messages “safest big city” and “great schools”. I’m not arguing that Irvine isn’t a great place to live, but rather, is it really worth the additional price? Can you buy a house in Irvine at today’s prices and still save enough for retirement and a college fund for your kids? I don’t see Irvine becoming relatively affordable anytime soon. Housing prices will decrease slightly in the nicer areas and then stay flat for many years to come. Anyone who grew up in the San Francisco Bay area will have an idea where I’m coming from.

          3. SeattleDave

            “Can you buy a house in Irvine at today’s prices and still save enough for retirement and a college fund for your kids?”

            I thought if you bought a house in Irvine, you’d make more than enough money from owning the house that it would pay for the kid’s college education and retirement for you and the missus.

      2. movingaround

        Its not that I don’t think Irvine has nothing to offer. I actually do like Irvine (and Lake Forest too – the bit that I have seen). The thing that I like about Irvine the most if the safety. The parks are nice but as far as I am concerned that is simply trade off for no backyard and lots of people – no real bonus.

        My original comment was more about the actual houses – the neighborhoods all look fairly nice driving down the street (neutral colors work) but once you get closer to the homes you start to realize that even the ‘newer’ sort of homes are showing wear. Sure, Woodbury still looks nice but give it 5 years.

          1. freedomCM

            How much upkeep do you think these monster houses have received over the past 3 years as the housedebtor stretched to keep the place?

          2. brea

            “All homes will start to show wear, you just have to upkeep it.”

            You can keep your house up, but will your neighbor keep his up.

    3. Waterdog

      Here Here!!
      You said it…. the houses really are nothing special. In my world, this house should be selling for 400k. I know that sounds ridiculous but 10 years ago 400k got you a lot of house and a lot of yard. My profession’s salaries are actually LESS than they were 10 years ago and I know I’m not alone. Let’s get back to the days when $450k buys a high end house.

      1. Mike7

        It’s not 10 years ago. Prices went up. This house is expensive and might not be worth what they are asking, but come on 450k? Give me a break.

        1. movingaround

          I certainly am no expert but what I do know is that I won’t be buying a house again until they get back down to where I feel I am getting my money worth and I am getting a house that fits my expectations about what I paid for it. $450 even sounds a bit high to me considering that there are many other beautiful places to live where that would get a lot more – but regardless, here in Irvine I would consider buying this house at $450-500 – but that is tops for me and $500 would be questionable.

        2. AZDavidPhx

          Prices went up.


          So what. They were in a bubble that has been pumping heavy since the late 90’s.

          Now they are dropping.

          How can you make an intelligent argument against 400K for a very median house when the median income is only 85K-100K?

          This is such sheeple “no loan is too high as long as long as the payment can physically be made” “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire” HGTV naive juvenile perspective.

          What has happened to educating our citizenry on proper financial management?

          AZ’s Financial Management Class

          Day 1

          Don’t spend more than 25% of your monthly take-home income on your house! Don’t do it!

          Only spend 1/4 of your monthly take-home income on your house! YES! Do it!

          Put another 25% into your savings account so that you do not have to be a Wal-Mart greeter when you retire!

          Use the rest to pay your bills, buy your cars and Ipods.

          Pay off the house quickly and live debt free in your retirement and enjoy all that cash that has been saved away.

          Day 2
          Diplomas Issued

    4. Alan

      What is going on with the floor in front of where the refrigerator used to be? If you’ve just paid $850k – $860k per Ipoplaya’s expectation, I guess you will need to have high-end appliances and good looking floors in your mansion. The the place may just be $900k again.

      And what is the one room that they show – long, narrow and awkward to use well it looks to me. Why didn#t they use a photo of a more attractive room?

      At least the new owners won’t ever have to worry about the expense of putting in a swimming pool.

  6. Dave

    This still leaves me wondering if there’s going to be much of a price drop for a SFR in the nicer areas of Irvine.

    1. ipoplaya

      This house will sell for over asking. That price drop hasn’t come yet and hasn’t really shown signs of arriving soon either.

      I’d guess that this place goes for $850-860K and gets into escrow very soon…

      1. ockurt


        My wife and I live down the street and we looked at this place Sunday. It’s a nice house in a good location but the lot is kind of small.

        My r/e agent is checking with the bank to see what kind offers they’ve been getting…it will be interesting…

        I wouldn’t pay over $800k for it though.

        1. Major Schadenfreude

          “My r/e agent is checking with the bank to see what kind offers they’ve been getting”

          The bank has been getting multiple offers over asking price.

          I don’t know that for a fact; just anticipating what your RE agent will say.

          1. ockurt

            LOL. Always take it with a grain of salt.

            She’s cool…she knows I won’t get sucked into a bidding war so there’s no b.s.

            I’m in no hurry to move. I like not having to balance my checkbook and being able to drink $50 bottles of wine when I desire…

      2. Eat it in the OC

        If so, I say good luck to them. Since it’ll lose probably 10% by spring and another 10% the year after that. Don’t think they are getting a good deal, because it only looks that way. Like paying $2.50/gallon of gas looks really cheap compared to the $4.50/gallon we were paying recently. It’s all perspective. The great thing is that, they’ll feel so stupid for overpaying for an average house when they could have had a really nice house a few years later.

  7. Kelja

    Feeling powerless and angry and wondering why I was such a dolt for not joining up with the ‘lazy’ mice when I had a chance. Yes, the politicians are going to bail out the lazy ones, sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Bail them out and leave me with the bill.

    One suggestion I read made some sense. Pass a law allowing all those in danger of losing their homes be able to tap, without paying the penalty and taxes, into their 401s to pay bills. Why should those who’ve partied hard for the last few years have a 401 anyway? Well, it makes too much sense to be considered. Besides, when the party mice finally retire, they’ll be looking for more government assistance.

    Profits without risk, benefits without responsibilities.

    As a result of this debacle, the U.S. has changed forever.

    1. Chris in PA

      Tapping the 401k is a good idea in theory, but what happens when everyone sells their investments to pay their mortgage? I think we’d see the Dow dive below 7,000.

    2. DeathToSinan

      No!!! If these lazy mice withdraw their 401k’s, we’ll still have to bail them out in the future when they retire. Besides, what’s a 401k worth anymore, anyway? I have one, and after the past few months, I might as well not have it.

  8. lendingmaestro

    Good Post.

    What get’s lost in the interaction between the giver and the recipient of the goodwill. Is the mouse lazy or just down on his luck. There is a considerable difference.

    People need to be held accountable for their own decisions in life. Every society will have its leeches, as well as its “hosts.” It may sound cruel to some to think about delegating relief to certain people and not to others, but this is reality. The end should justify the means.

  9. CTNative

    I think the mouse acted appropriately, for his conscience…the problem we have, as humans, is our inability to suffer ‘some’ pain now to prevent future pain. Other lazy mice, having seen the lazy mouse die would decide that is not going to happen to them and would have worked the following year to make sure they would have enough for hard times. So one dead mouse would have saved 1, or 12, or hundreds of future mice. “The good of the many, outweighs the good of the few…or the one.” – Star Trek

    When we have obvious pain in front of us that we can alleviate right now – the pain in the future – well, that is not obvious, which means it might not happen. So we fix the pain we know, and ignore the unknown, no matter how likely it is to be more of the same. It’s a story about collateral damage, about ethical and moral dilemmas, it’s a human story and now it’s a General Motors story.

    I am afraid we will once again, sacrifice the future for the now.

  10. Lee in Irvine

    Stories like this really piss me off! People like this are chronic abusers of the system.

    Just think … if you decide to go to law school or get your PHD, you can easily rack up $150,000 in student loans, and there’s no way to escape them. They’re with you until you pay them off. You can’t escape them even with a bankruptcy. You will likely be paying them for many years. But if you put $100 down on a overpriced home, you can barrow almost a quarter million dollars, and not have to pay it back. Then, when you’re done rapping the house of all its perceived value, you can simply mail the keys to the lender (or short sale), and suffer nothing more than a nasty credit blemish on your report for 5-7 years.

    The system is stupid!

    1. AZDavidPhx

      Excellent point.

      I wonder if the government will be considering a student loan bailout to be included in the 700B while figuring how much is going to be pissed away on GM and manufacturers of small wooden arrows designed for children.

    2. Rocker

      On the same token, there is more regulations and laws for ownership and operation of slot machines than underwriting real estate loans, prime or subprime.

    3. DeathToSinan

      Over and over again, we are seeing that the American system really benefits the cleverly corrupt. There’s so much disincentive to work hard and do well, that pretty soon no one will even bother. You’re right about the student loans; it’s synonymous with paying a steep admission fee for an entry-level job. And after paying this fee and studying hard for 4+ years, your job might still get outsourced….so again, why even bother?

  11. DAve

    Well I don’t know about you but since the realtor’s cut if this sold would be about $40,000 I would expect at least 8 exclamation points with that weak-ass description.
    I on the other hand have to teach high school FULL-TIME in East L.A. for about nine months to make that much money so I can empathize with realtors who might be too exhausted or worn out from their high-stress demanding jobs to provide only seven.

    1. Mike7

      I had a lot of friend who got into the business, they bought fancy cars, homes they couldn’t afford and partied at the most expensive clubs. They had no education, no previous experience, and looked at me like I was crazy to not join the band wagon. Now half of all those lazy ass mice are broke, homeless and asking me for a job.

      1. ockurt


        Like the same ding-dongs I knew during the tech bubble that had all these “cool” jobs while mine was so lame since I was at the old brick-and-mortar type co.

        A couple of years later during the bust they all came asking me for jobs too…

        Yer out!!!!

      2. DeathToSinan

        Real estate sales is really one of the few ways that stupid, talentless, supremely-confident, uneducated people can make a ton of money. And best of all: they actually think they earned it through some skill on their part.

  12. evening rose

    This house is not a high end house! Believe me, I’ve seen it.
    First of all, the details in the listing are WRONG and it’s only 2159 sqf and not 2400 as published. I found the floor plan of this house, and there is no doubt about it. It is cramped, dark, the floors need to be replaced, there is a lot of water damaged, and it is filthy.
    My realtor let the listing realtor know that the square footage is wrong, but of course they never did anything about it. I wouldn’t pay more than $750K for this house considering it’s size and condition, and even that would be over paying. I would never buy this house.

    1. ockurt

      I didn’t know it was only 2159 sq. ft. It’s definitely overpriced then…$750k might be right…

      When my wife and I looked at this place Sunday we did notice the floor damage and the fountain in the back is screwed up. Nice brick work in the front and bbq set up in the back though.

      1. mmg

        amazing that going thru a nasty down turn, and still people talk about 750k of a POS house in Irvine. layoffs are happening left and right, some in the higher end paying jobs–>causing deflation in incomes, take it easy with the koolaid, you’re showing signs of intoxication 😆

        1. AZDavidPhx

          Kool Aid hangovers are nasty. This psychological experiment will certainly be one for the history books.

        2. Waterdog

          “…still people talk about 750k of a POS house in Irvine.”

          Thanks for saying it. I stick by my earlier post that $450k is a lot of money for a house. People throw around numbers like 800 and 600 so much that $500k sounds like a giveaway. Have incomes really gone up so much in the last 10 years that $500k is the new $300k? Since when did having NO disposable income at the end of the month become accepted. Isn’t anyone trying to max their 401k? Save for $3000 vacations? Save for kids education? Save to replace the car in ten years? What am I doing wrong here?

          1. ockurt

            Unfortunately, that’s the reality of the situation out here. That place would sell for $750k and probably more. It is a lot of dough but if you’re waiting for $400k houses in Turtle Rock or better parts of Irvine you’re smoking crack.

            We feel fortunate we can save for all the things you mention and also afford a nicer place for our family.

            P.S. Kool-Aid with vodka makes the nastiest hangovers…

          2. Dave in Yorba Linda

            Dual income families. Two people making 80k-100k each could probably buy something like this, and there’s a lot of couples out there like that. That wouldn’t be smart though. My fiancee and I could afford this, but we just keep renting out my parents condo waiting for prices to fall more.

  13. Gemina13

    It’s as if realtors are now being paid as poets used to be, except the rate’s per punctuation instead of by the word.

    I’m sorry for them, because it seems to me that even the knife-catchers are feeling financial fatigue right now. Someone may take that house and prove me wrong, but I doubt there are many people willing to shell out close to $1 million for a damaged, overpriced tract home with a few cosmetic touches to make it look good.

    1. AZDavidPhx

      It is hard to believe, but there is still a great level of denial out there.

      There has been a lot of positive NEWS generated by the media regarding Barack Obama’s ethnic heritage and its place in the White House.

      It distracts people from the financial stories and when people stop hearing the daily drumbeat of financial woes, they conclude that everything must be getting better.

      Once people realize that Obama is human and cannot heal the economy by simply being the first black president then we’re going to see some real capitulation as people begin to look past his ethnicity and at the problems with his policies that attempt to prop up the failed system and throw good money after bad.

      1. Captain Obvious

        Throwing good money after bad is the American way. Have you ever been to Las Vegas? American fools parting with their money since 1905.

  14. oc bear

    Unfortunately the government wolf from another story came and took everything from the industrious mouse and he hasn’t got anything left to give the lazy mouse.

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