Debt – Face to Face
A few Fridays ago, I profiled some homeowners who conservatively paid off their mortgage, and now they will have a great equity nest egg for retirement. This is how it should be done. Today’s featured property owners did the opposite. They bought ages ago for very little money, they HELOCed themselves into a massive debt, and now they will probably sell and end up with nothing.
Living life well is about balance, and the argument can be made that HELOC spending to “live for today” has its place. How much is too much? Is any amount OK? Many of the properties that I have profiled had evidence of HELOC abuse by previous owners. Many people pulled out $200,000 while their houses went up $500,000. They lived on their HELOCs and still sold for a hefty profit. Were these people foolish and irresponsible? It certainly appears now that the foolish ones were the ones who didn’t refi and HELOC themselves to the max in 2006. Those people got the full benefit of the appreciation turned to income. Of course, those people now have bad credit, but few, if any, of them are paying it back. I know what I believe to be right, but I am interested in hearing your opinion: How much is too much HELOC use?
Asking Price: $828,800
Income Requirement: $207,200
Downpayment Needed: $165,760
Monthly Equity Burn: $6,906
Purchase Price: $49,000
Purchase Date: 6/12/1981
Address: 22 Ninos, Irvine, CA 92620
| Beds: | 4 |
| Baths: | 3 |
| Sq. Ft.: | 2,673 |
| $/Sq. Ft.: | $310 |
| Lot Size: | 4,600
Sq. Ft. |
| Property Type: | Single Family Residence |
| Style: | Santa Barbara |
| Year Built: | 1977 |
| Stories: | 2 Levels |
| Area: | Northwood |
| County: | Orange |
| MLS#: | S544175 |
| Source: | SoCalMLS |
| Status: | Active |
| On Redfin: | 24 days |
Light, bright and inviting, perfect for entertaining! Comfortably
spacious home on double end cul-de-sac, remodeled and designed to
emphasize family living. Lovely wall of French doors extends family
room into rose garden. Morning sun streams into kitchen thrugh French
bay
window overlooking covered patio, flower garden, and plum trees.
The redesigned gourmet eat-in kitchen includes high gloss Italian tile,
updated appliances, new dishwasher and trash compactor, custom-built
cabinetry. Beautiful upgraded hardwood floors throughout kitchen/family
room, foyer, hall and downstairs bath. Gracious formal dining and
living rooms complete the elegant downstairs. Master suite w/dual sinks
and oversized shower w/bench. 3 large secondary bedrooms have walk-in
closets w/organizers. Supersized 16 x 20 Bonus Room (potential 5th bed)
w/wet bar & built-ins. Shutters,crown molding, and new carpet
throughout! No mello-roos,$72 association fee for club-like amenities,
walk to elementary on greenbelt!
Comfortably spacious? Is there an uncomfortably spacious? Is there a comfortably cramped? I guess that is “cozy.”
So how much did these people borrow? I don’t have data on their first mortgage, and I am not sure if the purchase price is totally accurate (it is listed as a partial sale price,) however, judging by the price of the 1980 home profiled recently, the property was likely only worth about $50,000 in 1981. We will use $50,000 as a starting figure for their first mortgage even though it was probably less.
- On 6/30/1997 they opened a $266,250 first mortgage and a $53,250 second. Rather than having the house nearly paid off after 17 years, they have quintupled their debt.
- On 10/20/1998 they refinanced with a $263,000 first mortgage. It looks as if they paid off the second.
- On 10/27/2000 they opened a $88,000 HELOC.
- On 7/3/2001 they opened a stand-alone second for $40,000
- On 8/22/2002 they refinanced their first mortgage for $456,000.
- On 10/15/2004 they refinanced their first mortgage for $584,500.
- On 6/21/2006 they opened a HELOC for $100,000.
- Total mortgage debt (assuming the HELOC is tapped) $684,500.
- Total mortgage equity withdrawal: $634,500.
If this house sells for anywhere close to its asking price, these people will have their debts paid and get out without a short sale. Of course, they will not have much cash at the closing, but they got to spend all that money with no other repercussions.
What do you think about that? Wise? Foolish? Balanced?
.
I don’t owe you anything
what now?
not again
you’re a person I will never comprehend
I’ve listened
I’ve tried
I can’t change enough
to make you change your mind
I don’t owe you anything
Debt – Face to Face
well if they somehow get out of this sale with no debt… where are they going to live? it’s not like there will be any gains from the sale which can be used as a down payment (“what’s that?”) for a new home.
Foolish? Depends upon what the HELOC was spent on. Perhaps they really, really needed the cash for a medical emergency or something else dire like that; however, given that this is the OC and the serial nature of their equity withdrawals, I’ll put my money on, ‘they foolishly frittered it away on dining out, vacations and new cars’.
I’m hoping the sellers have jobs that pay well enough by now that they don’t have to overly concern themselves about it. It’s easy to soak in the schadenfreude when one reads individual stories like this one, but when you look at your stock portfolio these days – especially if you own equities or funds which in turn own pieces of Fannie, Freddie or one of the formerly high-flying banks like WaMu – we’re all paying the price for the rampant financial innumeracy in this country.
I believe criticizing these homeowners without knowing the facts may be unfair.
Since the time period here was so great the possiblity that the owners had a good reason for accessing the equity – such as medical bills.
Oh, here we go. Every time this subject comes up you can count on someone to show up and play the “medical bills” card.
Two words: “HIGHLY UNLIKELY”.
Look around at the imploding housing market and the sheer number of people defaulting on their suicide mortgage loans. HUGE numbers of deadbeat mortgage owners HELOCing themselves to the moon.
Let’s keep it real; The people who live in this house HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE.
Rather than “medical bills”, the real culprits are “interest bills” from Visa, Mastercard, CountryWide, etc.
Tired of hearing about the medical bills myth.
I’m glad to finally see someone call out the “medical bills myth”. We had some significant medical bills for awhile and the hospitals, physicans, radiologists, etc. happily worked out payment plans for us that did not require interest payments. So why would anyone take out a home equity loan THAT REQUIRES INTEREST TO BE PAID?
Even with the time I spent calling all those business offices, it was still less time spent than going through the paperwork and hassle of getting a loan against our house.
Do I think it happens? Yes. Do I think it happens very often? No.
You pose the issue of foolishness as dependant on the purpose on which the money was spent. Whilst I would agree that things like medical emergency or an investment in a child’s education might be good uses, one must also calculate not only the dollar cost but the emotional cost as well.
One of the things that “buying” a home provides is peace of mind that, over the years, you will have a place to live that is debt-free (or nearly debt free) in later years. What is a sound night sleep without worrying about debt worth to you? What is security in knowing that your house will be paid off and that you can survive on social security worth to you? What is it worth to be able to opt for early retirement if you so wish? These are the non-financial, intangible benefits of avoiding serial refinancing and HELOC abuse.
seems a little overpriced. why not list for 749 instead of chasing the market down?
They don’t want to just ‘give it away’.
Recent closing prices in that area have been $300-325 per square foot, so the list price actually isn’t out-of-whack.
Giving them a negative adjustment for location (they back to Yale) I’d expect current market value on this home to be in the high $700K range. They are a nice short walk to Santiago Hills Elementary…
Unfortunately AZDave ignores the realities of the Irvine housing market. Please are selling and still selling well above $300/sf in most areas…
Sorry, that should be “places are selling”…
Your chickens are on their way home.
ipo-
It looks as if none of the HELOC money went to updating the house (at all!).
Are houses that are 30 years old with zero updates still going for $300+/sf in Northwood?
I do not believe zero updates is accurate. The house supposedly has newer appliances, newer cabinets, etc. in an updated kitchen. I don’t think the AC condenser unit is original either from the pics. I think doors and windows may have been redone from the looks of them…
And yes, unfortunately, places in Northwood of this age with few to any updates are still selling for $300+/sf.
Most recent relevant comp:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/25517593_zpid
$730K for 2100sf. Now do you see why they didn’t price at $749K?
No, I don’t. Under your logic, if they priced it at 749K then it would have sold within a couple of days. Instead it is now going to rot on the market and chase it down.
Yes it likely would have, probably for $750-760K. Why take $750-760K off a list of $749K when you can get $780-800K instead? They may chase the market down but I doubt it. If they take what the market offers them, they’ll be in escrow within weeks…
Two other comps are $634K (REO to end buyer) and $528K (REO back to bank price) for the same exact house model as you quoted $730K. There was another $730K non-REO comp too.
I still can’t believe people were actually able to find a buyer at $730K for the two recent homes. These REO’s have to have some effect eventually.
An acquaintance of mine recently tried selling the model being profiled here and they failed at $800K. That was more than 6 months back. I agree they should drop it to $750K immediately and hope they haven’t already missed the boat.
It’s in escrow now…
I can’t wait to find out what it closes for to see just how close I got… We need to start up pools on these so I can make some extra cash!
They are probably old people now, and maybe they will move into an RV and live in Yellowstone. And they will never get that much money for this big old house on a tiny lot.
and they’re gonna owe the tax man on capital gains for the amount over $500k unless they ‘invested’ into the house with granite kitchens etc
This house should be paid off in full, easily, years ago.
I want to live in these sellers world where you buy a house at an affordable price and then 30 years later your old used house magically turns you into a millionaire.
Must be smoking some good stuff over there in between episodes re-runs of ‘Who Wants To Be a Millionaire’
Do you pay taxes on HELOC ‘income’ ?
Yes and no. You do not pay any income tax because it is borrowed money and technically not income. When you sell your house and pay it back, the income is the capital gain on the property which is subject to a large exclusion. However, if you default on this loan, the forgiven debt is taxable, but most people either do not claim this income or apply for an insolvency exclusion. So, in short, this money is usually not taxed.
“Do you pay taxes on HELOC ‘income’?”
No and yes.
No because I am a renter and do not have a HELOC.
Yes because the government is bailing out people who spent HELOC money like it was “income”.
Correction: Yes, because your TAX dollars are going to bail out these people who wasted their HELOC income.
If they invested the money they took out then they may be in good finacial shape however their credit is ruined. But as always, all will be forgiven in a few years. If they just spent the $635K what did they do with it? BTW, no way the house is gonna sell for $829K. No way.
They will be lucky to get $750k in 2008. By 2009 they will be asking $750k while the market will be below $700k.
In short, they are chasing the market down until they lose it to the bank.
Unless they quickly hook any knife catcher out there around $750k within a month or two.
If they are motivated George, they can move this place right now between $750-800K. I’ve seen worse in old NW sell for more per sf recently…
ipo, I know you know your market. Since you just sold yours, hence took a “short” position, you need to be even more patient for the market to come down. Give it enough time to work it out.
You could be right about how much this will sell. However, in two years, the new buyer will likely lose all down payment (say, 20%).
We indeed are in the golbal Great Housing Bubble busting phase…..
Look at how the energy and solar stocks are taken down!
they will be lucky to get 550k for an 81 house. Columbus grove has 07 3200 sf(much bigger) mid 800k. wake up people, this aint 2006 😆
Columbus Grove has $7K per year in Mello Roos and sits under power lines and next to a garbage transfer station…
Assuming these people take their offers in the high $700K, I can practically guarantee this house will get sold.
Heck, for $700K I might buy it. A $350K 30-year mortgage at 5.75% would have an after-tax interest expense of a whoppin’ $1056 per month for my family. Even with forgeone interest income of $900 per month on my down, buying this place at $700K would be cheaper than renting the smaller home we are in now.
Wait, wtf. Word on the street was that you bought a place?
I find it hard to believe places like this still go for high $700s, but I’m not the one tracking the numbers. In a couple of years $550k or less will be the norm for these, imo. I just can’t fathom many people spending > $300/sqft of real money now that IO/neg-am is going away.
Nah Genius, I’m renting…
I think $550-600K for something like this is possible, just going to take longer now with the US Treasury becoming the biggest mortgage lender in the world.
This place backs to Yale. Not the 405, but location is comparable to power lines.
When are HELOCs justified? When you can easily afford the combined payment and you use it for something that lasts – say remodeling or education. Of course saving up is even better, but I’d say a HELOC is justified under these circs.
Emma,
It isn’t an issue of what’s justified. We could debate the morality of spending money you know you can’t pay back all day long and in the end, it all boils down to gambling. The HELOC abusers gambled that the unsustainable rise in home asset prices would outlive their insatiable desires for faux wealth and now many of them are losing. Though this fact has been entirely lost on the monkeys manning the helm of our government and financial system today, ‘creative destruction’ is an extremely important force in capitalism. Cars need oil changes and so does the economy. But since the governemnt feels that there is ‘no bad oil’ we will run this thing on muck until it siezes up.
People who made unsound financial decisions need to feel the pain of their own foolishness, and furthermore the rest of us should heed the portents of their dramatic suffering. Such is capitalism. People try to get a free lunch, other people watch those people eating the delicious handouts in envy and consider doing the same until the food turns out to be poisoned. The survivors are then both rewarded for not partaking and reinforced that what their grandparents taught them was correct.
“If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”
Let them all fail and fail spectacularly. Just as fire cleanses the forest and clears the way for new life, presumably more fit than the old, let folly burn away the weak of our economy.
Death to Fannie and Freddie and the decadence they represent.
(Gosh, I almost forgot I’m living in the nanny state. Pass the binky pls.)
Schadendude, you want someone to blame, how about blaming Moody, S&P, and Fitch?
Tell me, why are they still rating the good ol’ U S of A a AAA/Aaa rating when good old Sammy Uncle is $12T in debt and climbing?
Perhaps USofA’s total net worth is probably more than $1 quintillion. Perhaps.
I dunno…I’m just a 7 figure net worth dude.
Emma Anne,
I think your argument boils down to the idea that it is OK to take on more debt if this debt is adding value or acquiring an appreciating asset. I can agree with that to a point. The problem with HELOCs being used for remodeling is that there is not a dollar-for-dollar recapture. Most remodels add about $0.70 for each dollar spent. Landscape remodels are even worse getting about $0.50 for each dollar. People feel it is OK to spend this money where there is some recapture, but it is not a good investment. Since very few people save for this kind of work from their income, a HELOC is usually the only alternative they have.
Emma –
I am currently in a Master’s degree program at Arizona State University. I pay the tuition by budgeting money and saving. Not one cent has been paid with a credit card or any other loan of any kind.
When you rent rather than buy an overpriced house and make use of public transportation or bicycle etc for short errands/commuting to work – your bank account experiences a swelling effect that enables you to afford things like education, etc.
While all these suckers are paying interest to banks, my savings account is earning interest (very little right now unfortunately thanks to the debters screwing up the economy)
Fact of the matter is – if you do not have cash in the bank then you cannot afford it. A person’s house is not a savings account – it’s shelter whose value stays consistent near inflation while a real savings account earns a higher yield than inflation.
That’s why it makes no sense to borrow money against your house. It’s equivalent to paying interest on your own money which is already capped at inflation.
It’s just plain idiotic.
Also, when you spend time studying and learning, your brain experiences a swelling effect which results in you not haveing to go to ASU for graduate school.
(Went there for undergrad because it was cheap, then stepped on up for the graduate degree. It’s weird, no one asks where I went to undergrad…)
Very funny (even though it had a loserish tone to it)
Congratulations on your step up and all of your success in life.
Hopefully I will be able to eek my way by!
you hit the nail on the head. a few of us live under the radar and control our spending, but the message shouted out by the media is that we are churlish, sad losers for striving to leave within our means.
if i told someone my bankbook balance, he would probably faint. but no, i don’t want to hoard it. there is simply nowhere to put it right now, with everything turning out to be a ponzi scheme that will have to be razed.
Hey AZ, if you feel so strongly, why don’t you petition Congress to abolish mortgage interest deduction on Schedule A?
To hell with mortgage (why that freaking word? The truth is it’s a damn ‘loan’ on a house…just say so instead of investing that freakish word). Let’s all pay our houses with our OWN freaking Benjamins. 100% down baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn’t that only considering your house as an investment? OK, your new kitchen is only worth 70% of what you paid, but if you enjoy it for the next 15 years, I’d say it was worth it.
Taken to the extreme, I could live in a single rented room with a hot-plate and no more possessions than would fit in a suitcase, and save plus invest every dime beyond those minimal living expenses. And whether next week or in some decades die, leaving behind a fine inheritance for someone.
I may be too egoist, but a certain amount of fun, interest and enjoyment are in the plan, even if that is money down the drain.
As for how much HELOC is too much, hard to put a general number on it … Obviously not so much as to wipe out all your savings and investment returns, but still being able to live /or die tomorrow) with mimimal regrets. 10% of your equity?
Don’t even put a number on it. Borrow as much as you want and can possibly manage.
It may be dumb, but at the very least be willing to PAY IT BACK.
I have no problem with people borrowing and paying interest to banks. It creates jobs and keeps the economy going.
My problem is with people playing the ‘Greater Fool’ game and borrowing huge sums of money that they figure someone else will go ahead and pay off for them.
Like today’s sellers – I am sure their rationale for the re-modeling was “It will increase the value of our house”. In other words, they were figuring that they would go ahead and borrow/spend whatever they could under no constrained budget, enjoy their new trappings, and later on let the greater fool take out the bigger mortgage to pay for the party.
That’s where I draw the line and get very pissed off when you see this pattern of people tapping HELOCs as though they have inherited a windfall of some kind.
OK, here’s the reader who _did_ live in a rented room with a hotplate. I’m a senior academic, and a couple of years ago I received an extremely prestigious year-long residential fellowship at a distinguished research institute, unfortunately located in an area with very, very high-priced housing. This happened at the same time that one of my children had huge medical bills which his insurance did not completely cover, and could not work because of his condition, so we were supporting him. My alternatives to accept the fellowship, which really didn’t cover housing expenses in that area, were either a second mortgage or HELOC, and living in a place appropriate to my station in life, or the single-room-hotplate strategy. I went for the latter. Now I’m about to retire, and my financial advisor tells me to do whatever I want and not worry about a thing, because we have plenty of money. I had a lot of fun and got a lot of work done on my fellowship year, and now look forward to a comfortable retirement with no mortgage debt. Worth every minute of minor claustrophobia (and it must be said that my back room with hotplate was in one of the fanciest neighborhoods in the United States, so all I had to do was step out the door and I was in the lap of luxury. I also had a very nice office at the institute). Anyway, my own experience suggests that small sacrifices that include the long view ultimately pay off.
What is a “hotplate”?
A hotplate is a single (or often enough, double) flat steel plate with a simple resistance heater inside and a dial regulator to set the temperature. A 1 or 2 burner stove … works fine to boil water or fry something, very cheap to buy, can sit it on a table or dresser, and can be plugged into any standard electrical socket.
I lived in one room for several years like that when I was a student. It’s no problem when that is the situation appropriate to your finances and goals. Wouldn’t want to live that way for life though, just to save the maximum amount of money.
I’ve known or known of enough people who had a catastrophic illness, or injury, or death before or shortly after retirement. Saved and invested diligently, put off doing or having the things they always dreamed of until safe and secure in retirement, and then suddenly the game was over.
I prepare for a comfortable retirement, but also make sure I enjoy my life today. Neither spend nor save everything. Just my opinion.
I think they spent a lot of cash on the inside of that house. It looks very up to date as do the furnishings.
The lot is the same size as my 3 story house. I only paid $227,000 for mine and $50,000 for the 12 acres it is on. Of course that is in Indiana, where I have a spring fed pond, grow my own food, and go to the grocery store once a week (6 miles each way).
And it’s paid for too. Taxes are $1900 per year, insurance is $1000 per year. Life is fine since I left El Toro.
This house is too fugly for over $800k. I’d like to see this in the $535k to $575k range.
You’ve got a long wait for that…
Someone mark Ipoplaya’s words. Let’s see what price range these houses are in 1 year from today.
I think 650K is a pretty good guess. Down into the upper 500’s within 2 years.
When it eventually reaches the 2002-2003 rollback (2011-2012), it will be in the 450K to 500K range depending on inflation.
You should make an offer on this place today, Ipoplaya.
Show us who is boss.
Yes, please mark my words and add these:
This house will never again sell for less than $500K… Selling below $500K would mean 1) another 40% or so decline in Irvine home prices to make that happen, 2) selling for a good bit lower than rental equivalency, and 3) selling for less than a 160 GRM.
There we have it.
500 is the magic number everyone.
It’s a nice official sounding number; a multiple of 10 and 5; much too complex to be pulled from one’s own orifice.
I’m glad that your house price God is keeping the arithmetic simple.
Thy Irvine housing shalt never see the day below 500K.
Unfortunately, #2 and #3 both rely on the rental value increasing.
Unless inflation boosts wages a lot in the next couple of years, not many families are in a position to afford the 160 x GRM @800k = $5,000/month
Even $500k is $3,000/month.
I would never make a statement like that. Cant you see, its not just housing……the entire US economy, stock market, bond market, debt market and financial markets have been one big giant ponzi scheme after another.
Now, there are no more markets to scheme, the money has run dry and everyone who could be scammed has been scammed and now the carpet baggers are leaving town and those who have been scammed are being scammed again by getting the debt shoved up their asses and down their throats.
Money has run dry?! I can borrow $729K on a 30-year fixed for less than 6% right now… Not exactly an empty well.
DUH
Because the government is running the printing press.
No, there is nothing wrong with this picture. It can go on and on for ever and ever in the land of magical thinking and happy thoughts.
LOL, ipop, of course you can. If you owned a depreciating asset and could find a sucker to borrow it from you for a few years and pay down the debt wouldnt you do the deal?
What I am talking about is “REAL” money, you know the kind that used to be in savings accounts, CD’s, home equity, stocks and bonds etc., not debt.
There is a difference.
I can too ipop…but that doesn’t mean everyone is like us.
I’m quite surprised that this house is in escrow given the fact that Irvine and the surrounding areas continue to lose jobs. Jobs are more important to keep housing prices from falling further, not these other noises such as stock market drop, LEH/WaMu/Wachovia/AIG failing, etc.
The re-fi cycle begins before the bubble so the owners were on their way to the poor house, but were saved by the bubble (assuming they sell).
Are any of the major lenders going after these people for deficiency judgments? Anyone know?? Assuming you can’t short-sell … technically isn’t the owner still responsible for paying back the deficiency UNLESS they file bankruptcy and have it discharged ? I have heard in some states a lien can / will be placed on your NEXT home for the amount of the deficiency.
They can go after any deficiencies if they go through a judicial foreclosure. Lenders rarely do this because it is more expensive, and you can’t get blood from a turnip. If these people have $500,000 liquid that the lender knows about, then they probably would go through the judicial foreclosure process to recoup the money.
One of my contacts at a title company confirmed two weeks ago that defaulted HELOC’s are in fact being bundled and resold. He wouldn’t tell me current prices but it’s not surprising when judgments are valid for 10 years and then some and banks will take their pennies and move on as quietly as possible.
The Redfin listing for this home shows the status as “Backup Offers Accepted”. Does this mean it has already gone into escrow?
Why yes it does fogey. Thanks, I’ll have to add this to my tracking.
So AZ, do you believe yet that maybe I know what I am talking about in terms of market pricing… Uh, did you suggest they would chase the market at that price. Wow, what a keen and insightful observation that was – NOT.
Let me refresh your memory:
“Instead it is now going to rot on the market and chase it down”.
No guarantee that it’ll go through escrow.
Is mortgage loan that easy to get nowadays?
In terms of Irvine properties entering escrow, at least 80-90% close vs. falling out… That is an unscientific estimate based on my tracking of escrows in my search parameters.
It probably helps that the typical Irvine buyer of late brings between 25-35% down to the transaction.
IPO,
When I sold my TR home in 2006, it fell out of escrow twice. Talk about serious heartburn. Ugh. Third time was the charm though.
Carl
Ipoplaya –
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Too bad you aren’t 🙂
I think the way people spend there money depends on there situation and lifestyle. Also on there long term goals. I grew up on a small street called Mt. Walton Cr. in Fountain Valley CA. My family bought the house new in 1979. I was 4 years old. I played with my friends in the neighborhood and had great memories. One of my friends parents (also there since 1979) just lost there home. Bank foreclosure due to HELOC abuse. They were in debt around 500k or so. I remember the last 10 years they started parking 3-4 nicer cars in front of there house. I just thought it was payed off like my families house was and they were doing well. Last I heard they moved to Oregon or something like that. It sucks, because I’m sure they didn’t want to go, but they screwed up. I’ve got my own house in Irvine now, and thank god live debt free. It makes me sad to see friends, familys, and neighbors go down like that.
Mike7… you are making me crazy. The word is “THEIR” – of or relating to them, as possessors.
“there” – in or at that place. that place or position.
Got it, thanks!
to AZDavidPhx: well, obviously, you do not have college-bound children, dear, and have no idea how much college costs tese days. Education in a private college/university runs between $120,000-150,000 for ONE child. Now imagine a family with 3 very bright kids. Not to suggest that ASU is not a good school, and I am certainly not suggesting that state schools are of any less quality, but if your kids gets into Yale/Harvard – would you force him/her to enroll in ASU? A lot of prestigious private colleges do not give any financial aid or a laughable sum. Forget medical bills, college tuition is obscenely expensive in this country. If my kid gets into Yale (or name your own dream school here), I will take HELOC out in a heartbeat.
Face to Face? AWESOME! Thanks IR!
Can someone please tell me where do you get the info on how much a HELOC on a house is and when it was opened? is there a site i can see it on? can i check any house for that info?
Thanks in advance