How to Lose $500,000 in a Year

Ship of Fools — Robert Plant

Today we are breaking with our tradition of profiling a $250,000 loss, and we are going big time — $500,000 lost on one property. This flip is sunk. These flippers are so far underwater, they are not on a ship of fools; they are on a submarine.

Asking Price: $799,000 IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: $199,750

Downpayment Needed: $159,800

Monthly Equity Burn: $6,658

Purchase Price: $1,299,000

Purchase Date: 6/8/2007

Address: 20 Silver Cres, Irvine, CA 92603Short Sale

Beds: 4
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 2,128
$/Sq. Ft.: $376
Lot Size: 6,741

Sq. Ft.

Property Type: Single Family Residence
Style: Contemporary
Year Built: 1977
Stories: 1 Level
View: Hills
Area: Turtle Rock
County: Orange
MLS#: S529152
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 17 days


BRING YOUR CONTRACTOR….This home has great potential. Lowest priced
detached home in Turtlerock. Endless possibilities with this spacious
single level home. This model is the most sought after for adding a
second story (neighbor with same model did just that). Well located
across from hughe assoc pool/spa/park and one block to favorite


Someone paid $1,299,000 for a property needing a complete remodel?



The transactions surrounding this property smell fishy to me. It was purchased by a guy for $1,299,000 in March of 2007 who put 25% down. 3 months later, the property was sold to a couple for the exact same price who used 100% financing. Now, 10 months later, it is being offered for sale for $500,000 off the purchase price. What gives? Did the original buyer find a straw buyer to bail him out? Why would someone sell it 3 months later for the same price, and why did the second buyers use 100% financing and try to sell it 10 months later for a $500,000 loss? It looks suspiciously like a bank “put” that bailed out the first buyer. I don’t know. The bottom line is this: JP Morgan Chase Bank is going to lose $547,940 after a 6% commission less than 10 months after originating the loan. That is a huge loss, particularly for such a short ownership period. It is possible that some contractor will bid more than asking and minimize the lenders loss, but I rather doubt it. This place must be trashed inside if they won’t show any pictures.


Robert PlantOn waves of love my heart is breaking
And stranger still my self control I can’t rely on anymore
New tides surprise – my world it’s changing
Within this frame an ocean swells – behind this smile I know it well

Beneath a lover’s moon I’m waiting
I am the pilot of the storm – adrift in pleasure I may drown
I built this ship – it is my making
And furthermore my self control I can’t rely on anymore
I know why – I know why
Crazy on a ship of fools
Crazy on a ship of fools
Turn this boat around – back to my loving ground

Who claims that no man is an island
While I land up in jeopardy – more distant from you by degrees
I walk this shore in isolation
And at my feet eternity draws ever sweeter plans for me
I know why – I know why
Crazy on a ship of fools
Crazy on a ship of fools
Turn this boat around – back to my loving ground
Oh no, oh no – ship of fools —

Ship of Fools — Robert Plant

128 thoughts on “How to Lose $500,000 in a Year

        1. vinoverde

          absolutely, but i think the first buyer must be feeling pretty slick, sliding out from under a big mistake, i get the feeling the correct lesson will not be learned,

    1. my name

      Seller #1: sells for $ in the bank
      buyer #1/seller #2: oops….got out
      buyer #2: 100% financing + gut the inside = profit

      Bank: SOL ~ 600k (price differential, commis, carrying cost)

    1. AZDavidPhx

      It is a WTF even in pristine condition.

      This is a simple tract home. Seems like it could be OK – but nothing posh whatsoever.

      I am guessing that the people on this side of town had something extra mixed into their Kool-Aid that amplified the hallucinations.

      Can you imagine buying this place for peanuts in 1977 and handing it off to some bag-holder idiot for 1.3 million in 2007? Talk about a nice tax-free lotto win.

      Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.

      1. ice weasel

        “Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.”

        I’m not a lender but I suspect we’re not being as exact as we could with the above description.

        “Banks” don’t lend anyone anything. Loan officers do, or did, until the rise of the mortgage broker. Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.

        So “the bank” loses here. Maybe some of the people involved in this loan are even unemployed right now but those commissions checks cashed.

        1. zak822

          Ice Weasel, it’s a relief to see that at least some people have noticed the real problem here.

          “Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.”

          Everyone got cash in pocket to make this deal happen. How could we expect any other outcome? Who thinks people are going to avoid making a bucket of money?

          If the institution known as “the bank” fails because of this kind of behavior, who cares? They got paid!

      2. Masterofdamoney

        You are correct, this is a WTF price even in pristine condition.

        And I’m almost 100% positive that this home is TORN UP inside. Probably missing EVERYTHING, appliances, flooring, cabinets, etc…

        I’m going to stop by later and take a peek. At any rate, this is gonna be a COMP KILLA for the ‘rock!

          1. IrvineWorker

            The inside condition is as follows: 1. Original kitchen cabinets & older stove – – nothing else in kitchen 2. Master Bath gutted to the walls – toilet & sink sitting in Master Bedroom 3. Parquet flooring in the entry – no other flooring 4. Everything else is original. Also, home needs a need roof & landscaping. The backyard is narrow, so noise from Turtle Rock Dr is quite loud, IMO.

            This is a short sale. No offers are being accepted below the list price. There are supposed to already be several offers within the range. Home is in the Highlands Lusk Tract, where larger homes have sold up to the 1.8M range.

          2. Headless Unicorn Guy

            Sounds like they crashed and burned halfway through their live-action “Flip This House” episode.

            “No offers are being accepted below the list price.”
            Just wait a year or two; by then, it’ll be marked down a full MILLION or so.

    2. tonye

      Actually no. This is a very nice area, I have been in those homes and back in 03 these homes were going for 900K or more.

      I would assume that $125K would fix it to much better than new standards.

      In fact, I may drive there this week and take a look at it. I personally wouldn’t mind buying it.

      1. IrvineRenter

        What do you think this property would go for at the bottom $250/SF – $300/SF? That would put the fixed-up value at $532,000 to $638,400. If you subtract off $125,000 for a total makeover, this property would be worth between $407,000 and $513,400.

        1. tonye

          I disagree with your numbers because his house has location and HOA on its favor.

          Reasonably fixed up, at the bottom I think this property will go for at least $350 per square foot, I think it would work out to $770K or so. Really well fixed up, up to current codes, it may fetch up to $900K

          I figure to gut it and rebuild it inside (the layout is actually quite nice, so no need to redo walls), to put nice floors, stone on the bathrooms and kitchen, your standard Viking, KitchenAid built ins, dual zone HVAC, 300A service, insulation, networking, drywall, roof, etc… would run about 150K, perhaps less in the current cheap labor cost market.

          Add a powder room somewhere and perhaps bump out a wall a bit would add another $50K but could add 200 sq feet too…

          So, figure at the bottom, as it stands, this home is worth about $900K – $150K = $750K. Which is about $340 per square foot.

          The Terrace is one of the better associations in TR. Also, although this house is on TR, it sits above it and has a view of the backside of TRidge and (I think this one) a partial view of Bommer Canyon.

          The negatives on this one house is that it is rather small with only 2 bathrooms and I don’t think they can build a second story because the houses behind them would lose their view.

          Of course, if it’s trashed then all bets are off as only those who are willing to do construction (we are) would consider it. In fact, I would consider such a Godsend. I can put my networking cables, 300A box, Viking, etc…

          I don’t really understand the story behind this house. I think that well maintained homes in the Broadmoor will bottom at around $275 per square foot, with updated ones at $300.

          And of course, true five bedroom homes fetch a premium because there are few in TR. (I say “true” because there’s a model in the Broadmoor that is sold as a 5b but it’s actually a 4b with a bonus room, and it has bad layout).

          1. Kirk

            I think most Irvine homes will sell for $250 sq/ft at the bottom. Turtle Rock will sell for more, but this particular house is right off of Turtle Rock Drive which is highly undesirable – teenage traffic from University High. This house was built in ’77 and will be competing with newly built Turtle Ridge. I’d say that it would bottom between $600-$650k after it’s fixed. That’s $282-$305 a square foot. It has a big lot – that’s all it has going for it.

          2. mmg

            so basically according to Tonye, some one making between 200-300k should be able to buy this 2000 sqft. fixer upper 1977 POS.
            how delightful. 😆

            when all is said and done, I have to agree with IR on this one 400-500k.

          3. tonye

            You two guys have absolute no clue what you’re talking about.

            UHS is like two miles down the street. How in the world can you claim that UHS traffic will affect this home.

            This House is ABOVE TR drive. The map don’t show it but I drive by this house every day.

            This is not a starter home. You would be expected to bring in some equity from another house.

            The vast majority of homes in this are are in very well maintained condition.

            In many ways, TRidge is not as desirable as the Terrace homes in TR.

          4. Kirk

            Are you calling Microsoft Virtual Earth a liar? It shows the house adjacent to Turtle Rock Drive. You are right that it won’t get the worst of the traffic, because it’s not right by the school. But, you are kidding yourself if you don’t think the traffic is bad on Turtle Rock Drive. It’s not Culver, I’ll give you that, but by Turtle Rock standards it is a bad location and will be priced accordingly at the bottom.

          5. JoonB

            I looked at a home on Oakley and heard the noise and that was 2 streets above TR Drive and the noise was very noticeable- it was a deal breaker for my husband. And this house- being on TR Drive- forget it. This house isn’t a “Terrace” home- it’s the Highlands.

          6. tonye

            Yes… the Terrace is on the West Side. The Highlands are on the South Side.

            The Highlands are worth as much or more than the Terrace.

            And, hey, the house is about 20 feet or so ABOVE the level of TRD. This is not shown on flat maps.

            The noise on TRD is not that bad and it gets very quiet in the evenings and nights. The speed limit is 45 and there’s not so much traffic. If you want dead quiet then I’m afraid that most of Irvine won’t do it for you.

          7. traffic patrol

            Uni traffic usually goes the other direction on TR drive and down Ridgeline.

            I would be more concerned with the traffic from the elementary school a block away. As everyone knows, it is far to dangerous to let your child walk to school these days.

            That and and parents picking up their child protegies to take them to piano, karate, SAT prep classes after school would make me consider twice about living next to a school.

            However, if you are one of those people who leaves for work a 5AM and returns at 10 PM then the traffic shouldn’t be an issue.

          8. Kirk

            It’s not like I’m saying there is bumper to bumper traffic, but it is THE major road in Turtle Rock. Pretty much the only way out of that place is through Turtle Rock Drive and you are going to get traffic from at least a quarter of the community heading towards Ridgeline or Shady Canyon. 20 feet above? Like that makes it better? I’m just saying that this house will go for less than houses further away from that road.

            Let me be clear that this house is much better located than this house:
            I’m back!

            But, it is still a bad location compared to the other houses in the area.

          9. JoonB

            “The Highlands are worth as much or more than the Terrace.”

            I highly disagree with that one. Terrace Floorplans are much nicer than the Highland tract homes. The floor plans of the Highland homes are very outdated- and some streets, like this featured home, is not single-loaded unlike the Terrace homes.

          10. BD

            Go for it… let’s see how it turns out. It seems to me that anybody not buying at a %+ discount to ask is a ‘knife catcher’. I remember in 1998 when you could buy the NASDAQ for a 0 discount to the high… now 5 years later we are down ANOTHER 30%. At the current rate of appreciation it will be more than a decade to return to the old high.

            Best of luck.


      2. CapitalismWorks

        “…back in 03 these homes were going for 900K or more.”

        So Turtle Rock was ahead of the game in absurd pricing. What prices were in the past is no indication of where prices will be in the future. Why people continue to cling to historic prices as if they mean something is beyond me.

        We are in the midst of the greatest collapse of home prices in the history of the world. At the bottom Turtle Rock will command only a slight premium to the less desireable developments in Irvine.

          1. CapitalismWorks

            C’mon, give me some credit. Just because I think purchase prices will always reflect a cost premium over renting should not have stripped me of my bear status!

            As I have mentioned previously, I sold my place (closed in the last month, and there was (and is) a large dose of incentive caused bias. I felt a little guilty selling my falling knife, and in order to ease the dissonance tried to convince myself that the buyer was getting a “fair price” (suppresses snickers unsuccessefully and bursts in uproarious laughter!).

  1. george8

    What is a fair price on a nice 6741 sf lot in Turtle Rock? $600k now or $400k in 2010? I think that is where this is going, just the bare lot price.

    1. AZDavidPhx

      400K sounds about right near the bottom.

      Knife catcher will pull the pin around 600K is my guess.

    2. .

      One and half million dollars seems to be a fair price according to the two other houses that are for sale on that street.

      1. buster

        I’m asking $625,000 for my 2003 Chevy Cobalt. I guess that means my wife’s Explorer must be worth, what, say an even million?

        1. AZDavidPhx

          I added a chrome rim to the Jalopy. I figure that has to add at least 25K to the value.

      1. Christy

        I grew up in the house that burned down. It was a great place to be. I agree with the climate comments below.

  2. Hmmmmm

    Wow. I can’t wait to see…

    1. What price this house goes for
    2. How long it takes to sell.

    A lot of cahones to ask for a big price and advertise as a total redo….good luck to ya!

    1. Blueberry Pie

      I don’t know how many people like seeing things from other areas, but I can’t wait to see how much this gem linked in my name sells for in Ventura County.

      I am still blown away by the Realtors who stand to make a $13,000(?) commission and can’t be bothered to bring a real camera to take pictures of the house.

  3. Lee in Irvine

    Turtle Rock is the neighborhood were I hope to buy and raise my young children. I am thrilled to see that prices have turned the corner and are headed down like an anvil. And comp killers like this one make my day.

    Thanks IHB!

  4. 7

    I am always confused whenever I look at the aerial photo. The house is 2128 sf, while the lot is more than 3X bigger at 6741 sf. But the foot print of the house in the overhead view seem to take up the entire lot. Is there an error, or it is too early in the morning for me?

    1. george8

      Good point. From the map, it looks like the lot is absolutely no bigger than twice the house footprint.

    1. tonye

      Actually, you might want to extend that to homes built in 02 too. In Irvine, new homes in new villages were always wildly overpriced when compared with existing villages.

      At some point, the price disparities go away, so either the older homes shoot up in price or the newer homes come down from the stratosphere.

      Obviously, the latter is what’s happening.

  5. JoonB

    I am actually surprised there hasn’t been a knife catcher on this house- being on the market 18 days. However, the house backs to Turtle Rock Drive- I would never buy a house on Shady Canyon or Turtle Rock Drive with the way cars go over 45 mph. No thanks!

  6. ???

    Possibly a great scam here. Hmmm… How much would I be willing to sell my 800 credit score for? Would half or more of the down payment recovered by the first guy be enough to justify a bankruptcy on my record? Perhaps. I live frugally and would love to shove that money into some wealth building assets while my score eventually recovers.

    The first guy’s credit score is bailed out (because he’s likely juggling more properties) plus he can retain some of his original down payment.

    The creativity by some is truly a spectacle. I remember a guy in the forums was trying to figure out how to make money selling his credit score. This may be the scam to do it. lol.

    1. IrvineRenter

      I suspect this is the exact mental calculation the second buyers went through.

  7. DeadBeatRenter

    All cash offer at $429,000.00. Offer expires at end of business Friday, May 9th 2008

  8. j

    Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. Sure it’s nice, but I don’t think that much nicer than a lot of other parts of Irvine or other nice parts of OC. Just doesn’t seem worth the premium. What am I missing?

    1. ConsiderAgain

      [i]”Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. … What am I missing?”[/i]

      A tv show.

    2. tonye

      (1) Better weather.
      (2) Less traffic
      (3) Hillsides
      (4) Better schools
      (5) Close to the beach (yep)
      (6) Did I see no cross town commuter traffic?

      It’s a quieter place than the flats on the other side of University Dr.

      1. j

        I guess I don’t see enough difference in these factors to justify the premium. I mean, are the schools and traffic really that bad in the rest of Irvine? Or the weather that good in TR? (Haven’t spent that much time in TR, but I’ve never noticed it to be *that* much cooler at UCI.) I guess I’d pay for a really killer view — maybe TR has more of these than I realize?

        To each his own, I suppose.

        1. tonye

          In TR and UCI we get ocean breezes. Once you get down to the 405 the breezes stop and it gets hotter and colder. In the summer it will likely be 10 degrees hotter in Woodbridge than TR.

          In the winter, it will often be foggy in UCI and Irvine, but in TR proper it won’t be because we sit just a bit higher. I’m not kidding, but the hills make their own microclimates.

          Also, we don’t have the cross country traffic like Alton, University and even Culver get. That’s people trying to get around the traffic on the 405 , 5 and 55. TR sort of stays off the main traffic patterns.

          Some of the view are really killer, BTW. I’ve been in homes with views of Mount Wilson, PV and the Ocean. Other homes will get Saddleback and Mount Wilson. The “back” has views of the hills, bommer Canyon and the reservoir. Indeed, I think there are better views in TR than in TRidge.

      2. CapitalismWorks

        It is quieter. Nearly every house in Irvine is subject to horrible freeway noise (drives me crazy). Turtle Rock is among those rare Irvine Developments that has a couple of hills between it and the freeway.

        On the question of sound, can anyone share with me what other places in Irvine are devoid of freeway noise. When I finally do get around to buying again, No freeway noise is an absolute necessity.

  9. NewToTheArea

    UH OH !!!

    Looks like Bank of America is having second thoughts about Countrywide:


    Countrywide (CFC) sank 11% in morning trading Monday after an analyst said Bank of America (BAC) should walk away from its $4 billion deal to buy Countrywide, due to rising credit costs and souring loans at the troubled mortgage lender. Analyst Paul Miller at Friedman Billings Ramsey downgraded Countrywide to underperform from market perform and cut his price target to $2 from $7, saying Bank of America could face writedowns of $30 billion or more when it closes the Countrywide deal. He says BofA’s statement Thursday that it won’t guarantee Countrywide debt “is most likely the first step in renegotiating the entire deal.”

    Miller estimates that Bank of America has a $22 billion cushion to absorb writedowns of Countrywide’s loan book. While that sounds like a big number, the analyst lays out a worst-case scenario that could see Bank of America taking $17 billion in writedowns on Countrywide’s home equity and second mortgage portfolio alone. The analyst says writedowns could reach $11 billion on Countrywide’s portfolio of option adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) and $5 billion on hybrid ARMs and other loans. Writedowns of that size could easily swamp the cushion Bank of America set aside when it agreed back in January to buy Countrywide for $7 or so in BofA stock.

    “The issue of fair value marks was a significant part of the reason that National City (NCC) failed to find an acquirer,” Miller writes, referring to the Cleveland-based bank, which has taken large mortgage-related losses. “If fair value marks sufficiently exceed BAC’s projections at the time of its due diligence, we believe the deal price for the purchase of CFC could be renegotiated lower, or BAC could (and should) decide to walk away.”

    1. Blueberry Pie

      Why would BofA want to buy Countrywide? Seriously…I don’t understand.

      1. Kirk

        The cold feet are probably because they want a Fed guarantee like JPMorgan Chase got for Bear Stearns. Jerks.

        Wanna bet BofA wants to buy this steaming hunk of crap because they wrote some derivatives that will blow up in their faces if Countrywide goes under? $0.01 a share should be about right for taking over this financial black hole. Too bad you can’t send the shareholders a bill for the damages. That would bring about some corporate reform.

  10. cynic

    Is it plausible that the home, when initially purchased, was tricked out with granite and other high end finishes, and the second buyer simply took out 100% financing and left with all those fine finishes?

    1. Iblis

      Possible? Yes. Probable? I don’t think so. Couldn’t sell the fixtures for enough to make it worth while.

  11. alan


    This deal sounds fishy to me too. Do you think the first purchase was done to get the home to apraise to $1.3 mil so that a straw buyer could come and then get the money from the bank? If so the DA should look into this deal.

    And what are banks thinking lending $1.3 mil to someone with no skin in the game, they were just asking to be robbed.

    1. IrvineRenter

      I have been thinking about what crime has been committed here. I don’t think the DA could prove anything, particularly if the second buyers made at least 2 payments. The intent to defraud is difficult to prove, and with so much kool aid out there, extreme optimism and ignorance is a plausible defense.

  12. lawyerliz

    I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.

    This house is a big fat nothing. It looks a lot
    like my average house is South Dade, which had a lot of 9800 square feet and a pool, altho less house square footage. At the bubbly height, my house could have sold for 300-350,000.

    Whoever oked this loan should be hanged, drawn and quartered. And his boss, and his bosses boss.

    1. IrvineRenter

      “I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.”

      This seems to be the most likely scenario in my mind.

    2. awgee

      ll – When one buys in Turtle Rock, one isn’t necessarily buying the house. One is buying the land and location and school district. Turtle Rock has some of the best schools in Southern California and has a reputation for being safe.

      1. Headless Unicorn Guy

        In other words, “one” is buying the snob appeal.

        Up in North County (Anaheim), there’s a reason we call it “The Irvine Attitude”.

        Die. Yuppie. Scum.

  13. DeadBeatRenter

    This house was built the same year I graduated from Savanna High in Anaheim. Back then granite was just a rock. Even the homes in Beverly Hills still had tile. I suspect this house is very nice even to todays standards. I am sure it has been up-graded. I like it, to bad about the street noise and speeding cars.

  14. Patience

    Anecdotal: I rent a Turtle Rock condo. There have been two units on my street for sale for over a year, a 2 BR and a 3 BR. Another 2 BR went on sale a few months back.

    Finally, the 3 BR sold to the person who has been renting it. The original asking price was $745,000 and rumor says it sold for mid to high 500’s. Approaching a $200K drop. But the realtor’s sign has disappeared. Apparently the seller doesn’t want anyone to know how low he let it go for. As if he can hide that…

    Loads more for sale in the development – several have given up and turned into rentals.

    1. ipoplaya

      At least three TR condos have sold within the last month. Their average selling price was equivalent to mid 2004, just like most of the rest of Irvine. The two most recent closes were 5 and 40 days-on-market respectively. Not exactly what I would considering languishing…

      1. Patience

        Assuming those were the first listings for those condos. Most of the ones I have been tracking have been through more than one listing. One of those closings was probably my neighbor of the $200K drop.

    1. IrvineRenter

      “The math of Steve Thomas at Re/Max Real Estate Services in Aliso Viejo says demand for O.C. housing continues to grow.”

      The article lost me at the first sentence…

    2. Dave

      A number of houses in my neighborhood (North Fullerton) sold last month–one at full asking price in 3 days. All of them sold for about 25% off peak prices

      1. Iblis

        Three houses sold in my immediate neighborhood last month (out of a total 4 on the market). Dead cat bounce?

  15. JNinWB

    The IHB got a mention and a link from the Eschaton blog today. That blog has over 300 posts for the TRock comments.

  16. Dave J.

    Has Living Room

    Hey, wow, it has a living room! Hilarious.

  17. Ethan

    That’s an ugly-ass house, even on the outside. I wouldn’t pay more than $200K for it.

  18. mmg


    better make an offer before some one else. this beauty is within your price range in T Rock. what are you waiting for 😆

    1. ipoplaya

      Alas, I am not allowed to buy in Turtle Rock. Wife doesn’t want the kids going to Uni…

      I’m not really into older place either so it would have to be bargain tear-down pricing for me to ever unload on something there.

      1. tonye

        Why not?

        I realize it’s too competitive…. yeah.. like those people who have to have their kids take 8 AP courses when they’re just sophomores….

        But, other than that, it’s a very good school.

        And as I tell my son… it’s OK if his X-country track team doesn’t win. At least he knows they have the highest IQs. 😀

        1. CapitalismWorks

          The make-up of the student body is 51.5% Asian, 39.8% Caucasian, 4.2% Hispanic, 1.8% African American, 1.5% Filipino, .4% Pacific Islander, and .2% American Indian. University High School is attended by students from more than sixty countries who speak over forty native languages.

          Perhaps there are other reason Mrs. IPOP would prefer another school…

          1. tonye

            It’s not the languages, that’s fine with me. Many of my kids’ friends have very heterogeneous backgrounds and although they speak two languages their english skills are “normal”.

            My concern about UHS is the parents. It’s the ultra-competitiveness of a specific ethnic group that spoils for everyone else.

            Some of those kids are forced to take AP classes or their parents will yell at them. I spoke with an advisor that had been ground by some parents because she did not allow a junior to be to take all 6 AP classes. Those kids have no life, no social skills and little imagination.

            My kids are smart and I want them to get a good education, but I also want them to be kids. God knows what I did in HS…. did the AP thing, did the Community College thing, worked and partied like a loonie, got me a 3.8 and ended up with a nice scholarship.

            So imagine how shocked we were when we found out that the GPA for admitting freshmen at UCI and UCLA is OVER 4.1!!!


            I hope to send my kids to UCSC (Santa Cruz) and CalPoly in SLO. Maybe once they go to college we’ll move north to SF or some place I can smoke a cigar in my backyard and grow some vino grapes. 😉

          2. lendingmaestro

            People in America don’t realize how competitive Asian countries are, specifically China. Many students come to America for college because they couldn’t get into to colleges there.

            My friend’s fiance graduated from high school at 16 and enrolled in UCLA. She had her masters by the time she was 21. Her High School entrance exam was HARDER than he FINALS at UCLA.

            In China, you have to be accepted at the next level school. The smarter kid get to go to the better schools. That’s the complete opposite of California, where many kids are English illiterate and automatically get passed.

        2. ipoplaya

          It’s the stress level of many of the kids at Uni that my wife doesn’t want to subject the boys too… She says its a great place to work but she’d rather our children went somewhere a little less stressful and more balanced.

          Cal Poly SLO is where I’d love my kids to go. It’s a great school in a great location. You can get a place in Paso tonye, grow you grapes there, and be 30 minutes from the kids if they went to SLO.

    2. ipoplaya

      I did visit a house in Tustin Ranch this weekend I am considering an offer on though 🙂

      1. mmg

        Tustin ranch has some very nice parts, good luck on your offer.

        Dont forget to lowball like I taught you :mrgreen:

        1. ipoplaya

          I will lowball mmg-style, I promise. I think I need to wait for a comp to close on a slightly larger model in the same tract… I think the larger one will go for $50K less than list on the one I like. That will aid in my mmging efforts.

  19. freedomCM

    boy that Eschaton blog comments section is FOS. 360 comments, and maybe 20 are on topic.

  20. Tim Fuller

    boy that Eschaton blog comments section is FOS. 360 comments, and maybe 20 are on topic.

    Any yet somehow I managed to find my way over here from there amidst it all! Dam I’m good.


  21. PadreBrian

    It’s going to go down to 400k. The house must be completely trashed inside. JP Morgan are idiots for funding those rap heads. They should also press charges.

  22. ex-tangelo

    Atrios’ comment section has been referred to as a “fever swamp”. The comments rarely have anything to do with the post’s subject.

    I love reading Atrios, but the commenters… Whew

  23. Fortyver

    Good Lord who the heck would pay even $500K for that abomination? Long Island has some silly real estate prices, but I could find that shack for $600K or under with a rocking school district. Oh this gives me a headache.

  24. IrvineRenter

    The site is receiving about 3 times its normal traffic today.


    People always justify their high local real estate prices by imagining there’s something unique, special, and different about their location. And there are indeed places which are special without many substitutes (Manhattan, certain beach communities, some resort towns, some others we can think of). But I’ve been to Turtle Rock in Irvine, and it just isn’t special.

    -Atrios 10:59

    Comments (349) Trackback (0)

    1. tonye

      I won’t bite.

      I don’t think Manhattan is that special. No sunshine at street level.

      1. Irvine Allergy Dr

        I’ve lived in Manhattan, the Bay Area, L.A., and the OC, and I can tell you, Manhattan is special. However, it is not for everyone. A few years, though, I think would be good for the development of almost anyone. 🙂

  25. Scotts

    I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil. However, it is still California, and therefore comparisons to Long Island or Florida are silly. CA is a nicer place to live and there is only so much land close enough to a major city and close enough to the Pacific to get the air-conditioned sunshine effect. (Riverside — now that’s another story. I have yet to figure out why anyone ever moved there or would consider it.)

    1. fencewalker

      “I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil”

      LOL … so true!

      1. r€nato

        I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil.

        Motion seconded, approved and passed.

    2. Blueberry Pie

      Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who very much enjoy living in a city such as New York. But not for me thank you.

  26. grabasnorkel

    “These flippers are so far underwater, they are not on a ship of fools; they are on a submarine.”


  27. madhaus

    Holy Flippin’ Case-Schiller! $500K haircut!

    I’m laughing about those comments how Turtle Ridge is special and will never go down. Sounds like some people talking about certain areas of Silicon Valley. At this point 3/4 of the zip codes in Santa Clara County are showing price declines and all but one have very severe sales volume drops.

  28. Surfing in Newport

    It’s not hard to figure out what this property is worth. There’s a property down the street renting for $3400/mo. At a 160 GRM, that’s $544,000. The 3-4 bedroom homes in the sierra streets rent for around 3K +/- 200, so it’s in line there. There’s a home in the next development over about the same height above turtle rock drive that is advertised for rent at below 3K for a couple of months now.

    There’s a house in the terrace that was in escrow for 1,299,000; but fell out and is now listed at 1,199,000. If it sells for 10% off that price, that sets a market price at about 1.1 million. Subtract out 6% and you are at right at 1 milliion net to anybody that wants to go in and build from land and sell. 3,000 sq ft @ 200/sq ft is 600K, subtract out the 6% cost to sell it and you are at $400K for the land.

  29. brave captain of industry

    That house in Cleveland would sell (after full remodel)for around $239K.

    I dont see $300+ sq. ft. holding water for very long when building costs ex land are under $90 for good quality.

    If a house cant be owned on less than $150K income, its not going to be a middle class dwelling…..

  30. granite

    Nice to see Tustin Ranch getting “Honorable Mention” here. Maybe not quite as much ocean breeze as Turtle Rock but its close enough for me. A lot closer than Phoenix.
    Maybe we should rename it Tustin Rock?

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