Holly Jolly Christmas

Have a holly, jolly Christmas;
It’s the best time of the year
I don’t know if there’ll be snow,
but have a cup of cheer.
Have a holly, jolly Christmas;
And when you walk down the street
Say Hello to friends you know
and everyone you meet.

Oh, ho, the mistletoe
hung where you can see;
Somebody waits for you;
Kiss her once for me.
Have a holly jolly Christmas,
and in case you didn’t hear,
Oh by golly, have a holly,
jolly Christmas this year.

Holly Jolly Christmas — Burl Ives

127 Briarglen Front 127 Briarglen Inside

Asking Price: $449,000IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: $112,250

Downpayment Needed: $89,800

Purchase Price: $522,000

Purchase Date: 9/18/2006

Address: 127 Briarglen #38, Irvine, CA 92614


1st Mortgage $417,000
2nd Mortgage $105,000
Downpayment $0

Beds: 2
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.: 1,055
$/Sq. Ft.: $426
Lot Size: –
Type: Condominium
Style: Townhouse
Year Built: 1986
Stories: Two Levels
Area: Woodbridge
County: Orange
MLS#: R712474
Status: Active
On Redfin: 10 days

From Redfin, “What a Charming 2 bedroom 2.5 bath Condo. Inside Loop, not near Freeway. Great location – walk to lake, schools, groceries & malls. Wrap-around Patio. It’s a must to see!”

It’s a must to see? A small condo for almost half a million dollars — hurry before they are all gone!!!



It is different this time. At least that is what everyone thinks when there is a financial bubble. Of course, the statement is partially true because the circumstances of each bubble are unique; it is the outcome that is always the same. In prior housing bubbles, prices have been “sticky” on the way down as as bid/ask spreads widen and transaction volume withers. We have certainly been seeing this phenomenon, but prices on many properties have been showing a surprising lack of “stickiness” in the initial stages of this decline. It seems to be different this time. The reason: 100% financing.

Sellers loath to take a loss. That is the main reason prices are supposed to be sticky. Those that bought late in the rally hold to peak prices while the bids decline. However, this time around, there was a plethora of 100% financing deals like today’s property. These sellers are not going to take a loss — they are passing the loss on to the lender. In short, they don’t care what the property sells for because they no longer have a financial interest in the outcome. We have been profiling numerous rollbacks on 100% financing deals on the blog. I have not been trying to find 100% financing rollbacks, they are just what is most common in the marketplace. It is the large number of these transactions in the market that is providing the impetus for the initial 20% drop we have been witnessing across Irvine. During the last bubble, peak to trough prices in Irvine dropped less than 20%, and that drop was stretched out over 6 years. It really is different this time…

For the record, this seller lender is going to lose $100,000 assuming a 6% commission and a sale at asking price.

Last week we discussed the implication of all the second mortgage losses on the market. It was the consensus of most posters that few people have saved up the downpayments necessary to buy a home. Some suggested the need for a first-time homebuyer downpayment assistance program. Who is going to fund it? Or put another way, who wants to lose their money this way? Will this be a government subsidy program where our tax dollars fuel more speculation?

Realistically, there is no solution to the problem of the lack of savings for downpayments. Lenders are not going to provide this money, and the government will not either. The market will not recover until people start saving and accumulate enough to amount to a 20% downpayment. The time will be long, and the amount will be small meaning the bottom will be later and lower than most currently imagine.

82 thoughts on “Holly Jolly Christmas

  1. irvinesinglemom

    This is why our culture still looks down on renters – in the past, being a renter beyond your mid-20s meant that you didn’t have your act together, that you couldn’t pull together a down payment, that you were financially irresponsible. That is the stigma of being a renter, even though the reality has entirely shifted.

  2. IrvineRenter

    I wonder how society will view 100% financing buyers who walked away from huge debts when things didn’t go their way?

  3. Mr Vincent

    Even the 2002 sales price of 290k seems high to me.

    From what I can see, there is no-one living above or below which is good.

    Not sure what the garage situation is. It IS deatched, but is it a situation where you have your garage, then a patio, then the unit? If so, then that is ok.

    Since they only show two rather obscure pics, I sense that some serious upgrades need to be done.


  4. Graham

    Your comments IR about not going and looking for the totally financed sales is amazing.
    Some would want to place blame on the mortgage brokers for the high pressure sales tactics and “no truth left untouched” applications but I keep reading about banks that financed 100% of the purchase. I am still amazed at how the mood of the pack in a rising market or any market for that matter affects everyone even the gate keepers.

    Thanks again for the great posts IR and to everyone for the great comments section.

  5. Don from the Tanning Salon


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    The second picture confirms it. To the right of the television is one of those big carpeted cat climber thingees. Judging by the size of it, there are at least two cats living in this house. Maybe more. Probably a couple of big old humpty dumpty male cats too, that like to spray on the walls whenever they get bored, which is often, ’cause that’s how puddy cat rolls in the O.C., y’all.

    Seriously, I’ll bet a session in the Don’s Tanning Salon Platinum-level tanning booth this place has the unmistakeable, uncoverable, perpetual smell of ammonia-laden feline piss. That’s a deal-breaker, right there.

    We now return to on-topic discussion, thanks for your patience.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

  6. Chrissy

    This situation with the high home prices is so depressing. The combined income of my partner and I is about $120,000 but no way to do we have $90,000 for a down payment. How are we first time buyers ever going to enter this market?

  7. 7

    From the overlapped MLS “watermarks” on the lower right, it seem to me that the pictures were thumbnail versions of a former MLS submission. Rather than using the original photo for the new listing, the thumbnails were recycled, and new watermarks were overlaid.

    I hope the realtor get 0.25% commission on this one.

  8. no_vaseline

    And if you could save a hundred dimes (100K) would you really consider buying a condo, or moving to Phoenix or Vegas or Bakersfield or Sacto?

    Can you imagine the new push for programs to help people save for thier upcoming housing purchase?

  9. 7

    As long as the borrower is younger than 65 yrs old, or it was 5 yrs ago, no big deal. We need to encourage people to take risk, you know.;)

  10. buster

    It’s easy — you won’t need $90,000. You’re statement says it all. Since there are virtually no first-time buyers at these prices, the entry condos won’t move, the move up SFRs won’t move because there are no condo sellers being able to sell, the high end SFRs won’t move, etc, etc.

    The bottom line issue isn’t about financing, down payments, adjusting interest rates. It’s about affordability, and the basis of affordability is the PRICE. As the properties sit, as the banks take them back, as their cautious auditors force the banks to write down their REOs, the prices will break and break hard. Then a property like this will drop to the high $200,000 – to low- $300,000, you’ll need $45,000 down, you’ll take a 401(k) withdrawal, empty your savings and borrow from your parents just like the generations before you. Patience will be rewarded….

  11. tealeaf

    There’s saving, and then there’s tax-sheltered saving. In our case, Mom stays at home, 10% goes to the 401k, a bundle to the kids’ 529 accounts, max the IRA, then car payments. We make in the six figures and rent a modest place, eat out only twice a week (no more than $30 each night), and there’s just no room to save above the tax sheltered investment instruments.

    I hate to use the cliche, but “it’s the taxes.”

  12. Jim Jones (aka angry renter)

    I’m sure its in some chart somewhere but I was wondering roughly how many 100% financing deals that were purchased during the bubble are resetting now and in the next year or two? I’m thinking only a small portion of these folks can hang on to their properties after the reset.

    And for those who can handle the reset wouldn’t it make financial sense to just walk away take the hit to their credit and then re enter the market a few years later and get twice as much has for less $

    Today’s property technically is a short sale, right? Does the seller need the second mortgage holder’s approval in order to sell less than what is owed? Or do they just need to pay off the first and then just default on the second?

  13. Lost Cause

    This is still a WTF. Almost half a mil for a 2 bed condo? This is an indication of just how far we have to go. With all of the foreclosures coming on line, the race to the bottom will intensify. People are not going to buy unless it is close to what it costs to rent. This kind of place might get $1400 a month tops. It could cost more than $2800 to own. Do the math.

  14. tenmagnet

    Nice catch, I didn’t even notice that cat perch until you pointed it out. Great comments!
    BTW, never heard of Burl Ives before, until IR’s posts. The other night I watched him put on an amazing performance as the Bond villain in Goldfinger.

  15. Jim Jones (aka angry renter)

    Hmmm lets see, I don’t need to pay $1200 for rent, most of my meals are free, I don’t pay utilities. Heck maybe I can even put my car on my dads auto policy. Here in SoCal if you live alone in a rental you really need to have a decent income in order to save at anything other than a slow rate.

  16. kishore

    I have a barely 6 figure salary, the wife is a student, we rent a 1 bedroom for around 1400$/mo and have car payments, max the IRA, max the 401k, go on occassional trips, eat out twice a week and still manage to save around 2k/mo. It’s mainly because we rent!

  17. tealeaf

    2 kids, brother. That means 2+ extra rooms on the rental in an SFR. That plus food and the rest account for the $2k.

  18. lendingmaestro

    You’ve never heard of Burl Ives, but I’m sure you’ve heard his Christmas songs. I was waiting for this song to be featured, it’s my favorite. What would Christmas be without Burl Ives music?

  19. No_Such_Reality

    Don’t underestimate how much the wife being in school is saving. Yes, saving. School itself may be really espensive or no, depending on where, but outside of school expense, a serious student will actually suppress spending since they study or have class or work.

    It means less dinners out and dinners that are out are more geared towards value, fewer trips, fewer shopping excursions, fewer clothes, less gas, etc.

    A quick eyeball of your number indicates you’re probably living on about $2300/month spendable outside of rent, savings and taxes. Frankly in OC, I suspect that’s the typical credit card bill for a working couple if not more. Gas for the SUVs run $100/fill-up once a week x2 is $800. Groceries, ever notice how busy Gelson’s in Oak Creek is? $150+/week.

    That said, the second spouse working becomes a real killer from an expense standpoint. Lots of extra gas for the vehicle, clothes, occasional (maybe frequent) lunches at $10 each, less time and more feeling of having ‘earned’ a reward. Once you have children, if the 2nd spouse is going to work, you can had the nanny/day care fees, etc.

  20. Terry

    Um, he wasn’t in Goldfinger.
    I am old enough to remember him. He was a TV regular. And he was great in “Ensign Pulver.”

  21. Purplehaze

    I am assuming that this guy saves an additional 800 dollars on account of utilities and meals living with parents. If you add those up you could be saving about 1800-2000 dollars of your personal disposable income in a state with CA like living standards. If you can deal with the social stigma of living with parents, I think it is really worth it. But then ‘Why can’t people save’ must realize that most of the people on this site are way past 24 years of age and have more responsibilities and costs and may not have the option to live with parents. So not an apple to apple comparison really.

  22. Alan

    Agree with WTF!

    half mil for very small (not even 1400 sq ft) APARTMENT that’s maybe not as good as the apartment you are renting for $1400/month.

    has to come down a lot, very stupid to even consider buying this now unless you need to launder you drug money.

  23. Priced_out_it_guy


    Thats what I was thinking when I saw the disgusting cat tree. Truly a marvelous photo opportunity. It is difficult to tell from the extra large 256 by 192 pixel photo, courtesy of the Internetcually challenged realtor, but can anyone spot the feline toys?

    It just goes to show the level of class and sophistication you can buy for a half a million dollars in Orange County; perhaps a notch above trailer trash and a notch below slum apartments.

    Honestly, if you were selling a home for $449,000, wouldn’t it be reasonable to take five minutes and move your cat tree, three-dollar hand-me-down thrift store television, smelly 70s couch, and 99 cent Ikea furniture into another room?

    Of course, the logistics of this are a bit difficult when you have only 1,000 square feet to work with. The couch would have to be moved into the kitchen and the cat tree into the bathroom while the photo is being taken.

  24. 7

    I would love to get a second spouse…

    Seriously, I agree with you if the spouse does not have significant potential income. For me, my first and only spouse makes about as much as me (actually more than me if she does not get knocked up every other year and take months off work).

  25. Priced_out_it_guy

    I would say this place could rent for about $1700. My 2-bedroom apartment is 800sq feet and I pay $1580/mo, which is the cheapest in Irvine.

    Of course, that includes free maintenance 7 days per week as well as grounds keeping.

    Still, we’re looking at a $1,100 differential. Consult your CPA for end-of-year home ownership tax savings and you’ll know when an equilibrium has been achieved. I would say about 300-325k.

    Of course, if you could legitimately borrow 300-325k, and you’re a first time buyer like me, you’d rather move out of state and get much more house for your dollar. Personally, after sitting this nightmare out, I’m not going to want to move from my 2 bedroom apartment to another dumpy 2 bedroom apartment-condo for nothing. I want to get more bang for my buck and upgrade a little.

  26. dano

    Also, don’t forget you’ll have to pay an additional $700 per month or so to cover the $5,400 property taxes and the $325 per month association dues. That makes renting look better and better….

  27. Neekolaaz

    Look at the sales history (via redfin):
    12/12/1995 $143,500
    11/16/1989 $183,500

    Ouch! Some unlucky soul held the place for 6 (six!) years and then sold for $40k less! Amazing… until you consider what’s going to happen to the person who paid $522k.

  28. Mike

    Your budgeting is very good, you have to live. The only thing I see is that you have to make more money. If you’ve got a job you need to find a better paying one. If you can’t, you’ve got to find some part time income. On top of that you’ve got the income from your wife when she joins the workforce. You’ve just got to make more.

  29. Mike

    I bought my SFR (4 bed 2.5 bath 2500 sq. feet) in Westpark in the spring of 2000 for 425K, 100% financing. I just made sure I had no prepayment penalties. I worked my a** off and lived like I was homeless for 7 years, but I just got my deed. Now I’m debt free own a home outright and am only 31. The only way I could have done it is with 100% financing. So my point is that it could be a good tool. Of course not everyone thinks the way I do.

  30. Ken

    For the record, this seller lender is going to lose $100,000 assuming a 6% commission and a sale at asking price.

    Actually this lender probably isn’t going to lose anything, since they foreclosed on the first, and should break even. It’s whoever is holding the second that’s getting completely wiped out. I see this pattern in REO pricing a lot: it’s set to the value of the first + selling costs. (Note that even though both loans may have been originated through the same broker or bank it’s likely they were sold to different investors.)

  31. yaka56


    May I ask why you always take a 6% commission in your estimate for the loss ?
    My understanding was than with SoCal, agent commision is best at 3
    Now, I agree, what’s the point, in this condo case, the loss gonna be big anyway.

  32. yaka56

    Looking at all the comments here, and as well as some other post when people make assessment on how much the property is really worth too (here 280k – 310k ), it sounds very much than within the next 6 months, prices in Irvine in these zipcode (904, 914, 902, 920) the price per sqf would be below 300$.

    It can be found today, but is very limited and make exception.
    If IR is right, it may take longer than what people expect.

    People tend not to consider the price/sqf as a good measure. I think it is when you look at particular zipcode, a particlar house (3/4bd) and monitor that metric carefully. Also looking a year ago, I don’t think any 3/4bdr houses were for sale below 400$/sqf. Even when they were few yard for I405 or I5 !
    Look at today.some are reaching 300 or less. But let me think, this is a 20% drop from Nov06

  33. Susan

    “A small condo for almost half a million dollars — hurry before they are all gone!!!”

    Oo, that stings.

  34. IrvineRenter

    That is impressive. Your story is what 100% financing was supposed to do for first-time buyers. The reality has been, shall we say, somewhat different.

    Kudos to you for your frugality.

  35. tealeaf


    thanks for the tip — I am working on an alternative income stream which will leverage by experience in IT, but will take a modest investment. No, it’s not Amway!

    Taxes are still a killer, esp with inflation.

    We got bumped into AMT last year as my income rose.

    Food for thought on taxes: Imagine a 3% raise that puts you in a new tax bracket. Meanwhile, if inflation bests that 3%, you just erased all that gain and then some.

    Combine the taxes on investment income, and it almost isn’t worth it! Thus the reason we dump everything into 401k, 529, and Roth IRA.

    Yo (heart) Los Estados Unidos y la IRS!

  36. IrvineRenter

    Up through the beginning of this correction, 6% was the industry norm. Buyer’s brokerages like Redfin or ZipRealty would kick you back 2% if you used them, but it was still a 6% commission. Realtors are now getting squeezed by both volume and transaction amount. I will continue to use 6% as long as the NAR continues to demand it.

  37. k.o.

    Just have to keep on doing what you are doing… make sure the costs stay low, live within your means, and save. I lived at home for a couple years after college with the parents, and that saved me a lot. Now that I’m out on my own, I always make sure to “pay myself first”, meaning I put a set amount of money into savings. Then the rest goes to the expenses I incur; if there’s something left over I tend to put it in savings, but I might splurge with something I’ve been keeping my eye on for a couple months.

    I’m single, so I don’t have as much income coming through, but I don’t have the added expenses of anyone else. For my generation, I think a lot of people are moving back home after they graduate from college, so its not that much of a stigma anymore. Thing is, a lot of them I see are just blowing their $ on a new car, going out, etc. Their choice, but I guess I’ve liked saving up for that huge goal – a home.

  38. squareround

    Hi, Irvinerenter,

    A friend of mine just got a loan from Countrywide. The total is 540K, so it is jumbo loan. But the CFC changed it to conventional loan by deviding it into 2 loans, so that it is qualified to sell to the FRE and FNM.
    Is it appropriate or legal? Thanks. The first loan is 417K at 6%, the second 123K at 6.5%. FRE and FNM will be hit hard by CFC?

  39. 306

    Regarding commish: I believe the listing agent gets 1% of sales price when it goes to auction at REDC, hudson and marshall, etc. I go to the open houses before the auction and there is always some cranky RE agent there handing out flyers. I have no idea why they would even get 1%.

  40. IrvineRenter

    There is nothing illegal about it. It adds to the cost because the interest rate will be higher on the second.

    Lendingmaestro lead a discussion on the amount of garbage currently in Fannie Maes portfolio. They may be in big trouble as this unfolds.

  41. IrvineRenter

    Realtors are quite lucky they get anything. When a property is facing foreclosure, you know a sale is imminent. 1% of something is better than 3% of nothing.

  42. buster

    Tealeaf –

    If you have some “1099” income and want to shelter it from the taxman, try a SIMPLE-IRA. I did that on a little side business I have that earned about $25,000 last year. I paid my wife half of the income and we both max’d out the SIMPLE-IRA and had the business do a match. After we were done, we had only $4,600 in taxable income and put almost $21,000 into the SIMPLE-IRA. And it’s all safe and legal.

  43. ipoplaya

    It’s only the incremental taxable income coming from that 3% raise getting taxed at a higher rate… Better to have a 3% bump that gets taxed a little higher than no bump at all!

    Irvine teachers recently voted on ratification of a new contract for this school year with IUSD. They got a 3.5% bump through 12/31 with another .5% coming 1/1/08. I’m ecstatic that my wife’s income is beating out on inflation by a smidge and welcome any extra tax dollars I have to pay out.

  44. ipoplaya

    Hopefully you somehow managed to put money into the market and retirement savings while you were paying off this $425K debt… Otherwise, the only “investment” in your portfolio, your home, will be depreciating at a high rate for the next couple of years.

    If all you did was pay off your mortgage, that $800K the house is worth today will be $600K before too long. If you’d had poured that extra $400K that went paying down the mortgage into the market instead over the past seven years, your equity portfolio would probably be worth $800K or more as well and likely won’t drop $200K in value like your home will. Your house would still be worth the same today, providing around $350-400K worth of equity and you’d have a nice diversified portfolio. In that case, paying off the mortgage might end up costing you hundreds of thousands in equity in the long run…

    Hopefully that is not the case for you. While I wouldn’t have chosen to pay off my mortgage as you did, you deserve some serious kudos my man for being able to save that kind of cash.

  45. lendingmaestro


    Tell me. Would you be more apt to write bad loans if:

    1.) You are a totally independent corporation that is regulated in its quarterly filings?


    2.) You are a government sponsored entity that has a carte blanche when it comes to financial reporting/disclosure and has the US Treasury & FED in its back pocket

  46. lendingmaestro

    A rate of 6.5% on a second mortgage is insanely low. Is that a teaser rate? If that is a legitimate rate then the bank that wrote it will not be in business much longer.

  47. squareround

    This is not a second loan used for escape insurance. The purpose i guess is to make it qualified for selling to PNM and FRE. This is why second loan is at 6.5%.

  48. lawyerliz

    Hey, I have cats and my house does not smell like cat pee. The litter box smells like cat pee, sometimes, but that’s outside on the back screened in back porch. It is possble to have cats with no smell, but you have to take care of them and the house.

    And of course, that smell is the worst in the world, if it gets in the carpets or a wooden floor.

  49. squareround

    Do you think it is legal to change a jumbo loan to a conventional loan this way? If it is legal, then I would say jumbo loan is nonexsist, because any loan can be converted to a convention loan. Lets say a loan of 4.17 million. Just devide it into 10 loans and it can be sold to FNM and FRE by Countrywide.

  50. Genius

    What I’m struggling to comprehend is why someone would own a cat in the first place, other than to ward off a rodent infestation.

  51. Genius

    Say you had $100K in savings (not including retirement savings), and a low six figure salary ($100 – $125k). What would you do? I’m trying to figure it out for myself.

    I love socal and all, but going back to CO is seeming more attractive everyday. I’ll trade the ocean for better skiing and an enormous house. How many other people feel the same way, and will (a lot) more people end up leaving? Back in the early 90s we had so many people from CA moving in that you started hearing jokes about Californians.

    Sorry for diverting my discussion away from fantasy land. It would be nice to one day live in Turtle Oak Rock Ridge, or whatever the damn place is called.

    IR – I can’t believe you’re starting with the Christmas music already. You’re every bit as evil as the local malls 😉

  52. Genius

    Fantastic point. It’s those two items that make my jaw drop. The state certainly took out their cut in all of the madness.

  53. ipoplaya

    Forget the ocean and the skiing… I stay in OC because the job market is great. I’d rather live in a smaller place and have assured income streams to keep funding retirement savings, college savings, etc. vs. having a big place in some other tier 2 or 3 metro area where it might take many many months to find a comparable job if one was lost.

  54. Genius

    Whoooaaa. Watch who you’re calling tier 2 there buddy. At least Denver has a professional football team. 😀

    The job market (there are like 2 game developers in all of Colorado) is one of the things keeping me near Santa Monica. To be quite honest I’m thinking of giving OC a try sometime in the near future (if you think your housing is expensive down there…) However, you’d have a tough time convincing me that the job market is the number one reason socal is as crowded as it is.

  55. catscratch

    Hey Genius,
    In 1990, I moved to Colorado from Laguna Beach because I wanted a house and did not think I could ever afford anyplace in CA, even someplace like Pasadena — not to mention Laguna. Of course, back then, teachers and police could afford to live in Laguna… Sigh…Well, I was right. I will never be able to afford Pasadena or Laguna — ever. Once you leave California, the risk is that you might not be able to return. I have a really good job here in CO, a big house I’ve almost paid for on 2+ acres, neighborhood is quiet and I have lots of privacy. CO has been very good to me. But the housing bubble passed us by here (I work in Denver, but live in the mountains west of Golden). Problem is — I’m sick of the cold (it was below freezing today) winters and having to deal with snow and drive in it and cold, windy weather that keeps me cooped up most of the winter, even though it’s sunny outside. You know how the winter weather can be kinda kooky here? CA has changed a lot since I left it, but CO has changed a lot since I came here. There’s plusses and minuses to anywhere you go. But I think if you’re from CA, and grew up in CA, only CA will ever feel like “home.”

  56. Trooper

    OMG Don, that was a riot ! “‘Cause that’s how puddy cats in the O.C. roll, ya’ll”……

    I have 2 puddys and it don’t stink in here. Fix the male cat and even though he might try and go through the motions, he cain’t spray no mo. Kitty vasectomy.

    Geez, just change the litter once a week.

  57. Stupid

    Taking a risk with your own stuff (money, life, health, or whatever) is fine.

    Taking a risk with other people’s stuff is not, especially if you did so without their knowledge or consent (ex. maybe the bank deserves to lose the money – but do the taxpayers in a bailout?).

  58. ipoplaya

    I’ve got an office in Denver (Cherry Creek) – nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there. I see all the nice big homes for a fraction of the cost they are in OC or LA, but the local economy is quite mediocre.

    If you are in Dev, then maybe you head to Boston. I hear that it has a pretty hoppin’ and up-and-coming tech environment. No idea if $100K goes much further there though..

  59. Stupid

    What if there’s 70’s style inflation? Then he’ll be laughing all the way to the bank.

    You never know about these things.

  60. ipoplaya

    I had a meeting out in Highlands Ranch and that felt kinda of Irvine/Tustin-ish to me outside of the temperature and amazing lack of palm trees. It’s amazing how much house and land you can get there for the dollar… Personally, I want to be able to wear shorts all year long and not have to deal with blowing the friggin’ snow out of my big driveway just so I can get to the office.

  61. Genius

    I grew up in Golden, Colorado, not California, which is probably a big reason I would not hesitate to return. The skiing there is 1000x better than here(CA), but there are no waves 🙁 Even though I moved out to Los Angeles 13 years ago to go to ucla when I was barely 18, CO still feels more like home than CA… though less and less as time goes by.

    I don’t mind the cold, windy weather. I miss it. There’s nothing better than sharing a fire with some friends, even if a bbq after some waves is a strong rival. If you grow up in cold weather you embrace it rather than avoid it. We used to get drunk and drag each other behind cars through the snow standing on trays we stole from Burger King. Not the wisest thing to do, but we had fun with whatever nature threw at us, which was liberating in its own way. And to be honest, it’s cold in CO maybe 3-4 months out of the year, though I will admit that commuting through snow and ice can kinda suck. Other than that the weather is fine.

    What it comes down to is that I really stuggle to comprehend why people live out here with all of the bs that comes with living in socal when they aren’t forced to. I love socal, but there is a definite threshold to my tolerance; I wouldn’t stay with a beautiful girl if she were a pain in the ass. I’d opt for her slightly less beautiful but much more charismatic alternative.

    /Colorado talk
    People around these parts get fiesty when the conversation deviates too far away from Irvine.

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