Get Over It

A little advice from the Eagles on dealing with the market crash:

You say you haven’t been the same since you had your little crash

But you might feel better if I gave you some cash

The more I think about it, old billy was right

Let’s kill all the lawyers, kill ’em tonight

You don’t want to work, you want to live like a king

But the big, bad world doesn’t owe you a thing

Get over it

Get over it

If you don’t want to play, then you might as well split

Get over it, get over it

Get Over It — The Eagles

Link to Music Video

804 Maplewood Front 804 Maplewood Kitchen

Asking Price: $525,000IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: $131,250

Downpayment Needed: $105,000

Purchase Price: $549,000

Purchase Date: 8/10/2005

Address: 804 Maplewood, Irvine, CA 92618

1st Loan $439,200

2nd Mtg. $54,900

Downpayment $54,900

Beds: 2

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,200

$/Sq. Ft.: $438

Lot Size: –

Type: Condominium

Style: MediterraneanRollback

Year Built: 1999

Stories: Two Levels

Area: Oak Creek

County: Orange

MLS#: S503807

Status: Active

On Redfin: 9 days

From Redfin, “HIGHLY UPGRADED Townhome in Gated Oak Creek featuring 2bd/2.5 baths, Inside Laundry and 2-Car Direct Access Garage w/ Custom Storage System! Luxurious upgrades include HARDWOOD FLOORING * SOLID GRANITE SURFACES THROUGHOUT * Recessed Lighting * Custom Media Blt-In * Upgraded Carpet * Designer Window Treatments & Home Security System! Sparkling Kitchen features Granite Counters w/ Tumbled Stone Backsplash. All Baths Beautifully Remodeled w/ Travertine & Granite! Just Steps to Resort-Style Amenities!”

ALL CAPS, asterisks instead of periods, exclamation points, w/: an A+ in realtorese.



Another day, another losing property. Does anyone still dispute the crash anymore? Oh wait, some claim this is a minor correction. I guess that is as bullish as you can be these days.

Today’s seller stands to lose $55,500 assuming they get their asking price and they pay a 6% commission. Since their downpayment is only $54,900, they will need to write a $600 check at the closing table or make the bank eat it. Which do you think they will do?

You get calloused to the market after a while. When I see a mere $50,000 loss, it doesn’t have much of an emotional impact on me any more. Perhaps, I am “over it.” I have to imagine it is a big deal to the specuvestor who lost everything on the deal — lost money, lost sleep, lost sanity, etc. He will just have to Get Over It too.

80 thoughts on “Get Over It

  1. tonye

    That granite will soon be dated. Just like Corian says 90s and tile counter say 80s. Particularly the “big pattern” granite.

    And it adds questionable value when it’s done like this: leave the original apartment sized kitchen cabinets and layout and just slap on the granite.

    And their media niche is a joke. Built for a CRT TV ( or like many builders who assumed CRT RPTVs)… they’ve all been blindsided by the LCD, DMM, plasma technologies with shallow RTPVs or flat screens. The first thing you’ll have to do to this condo is tear it’s touted “media niche” and rewire it to put a flat panel over the fireplace mantle.

    Have you notice how so many “media niches” are off center with terrible ergonomics and sound coupling into the room? The display should be in the middle (or so) of one of the walls. Otherwise, like in this condo, you will twist your neck looking at the display right over your shoulder.

    Never mind the fact that you can’t place the speakers for a surround sound system!

    BTW- for our kitchen, we chose to use quartz…… it looks much better than granite, it has a fine grain structure, it’s more durable, it’s man made and it will not age like granite/corian/tile counters.

    The way the market’s going, soon it will be back to Formica.

  2. NanoWest

    Mr. Vincint,

    This country is not ruined, not even close. What we have going on is the bursting of a speculitive real estate bubble that will be very painful for those that joined the “game”.

    As a word traveler(1,500,000 miles on united), I can say that the United States is regarded as one of the greatest countries in the world. It is not perfect, but our democracy is one of the best systems of governance is one of the best ever created.

    I am not a supporter of Bush, but I can tell you this, it will take a lot more than one guy to “ruin” this great country.

  3. caliguy2699

    You’re right – nowadays, we see $50,000 loss here, $60,000 loss there, and it’s no big deal anymore. I wonder how soon we will start to see the numbers increasing.

    And speaking big losses, you were right, IR – Talega is quickly degenerating into a bloodbath. I blogged about two properties last night where the losses already exceed $200k each. Only the beginning, I’m afraid.

  4. Kirk

    Nah, I’m with Mr. Vincent. Bush ruined this county and Greenspan extended a bubble that otherwise would have popped without so much devastation. Sure, we’ll get back on our feet, but right now America is like a wrecked car that needs to go to the repair shop before it’ll run right again. You’re right though, one person can’t ruin the country. The people that voted for this ass (especially in 2004) are to blame.

    The only thing I really hold against Greenspan is when he pushed risky loan products in 2004. Criticizing him on holding interest rates too low for too long is a bit too much second guessing. But, telling people to go into ARM’s? What a jerk.

  5. Shere Khan

    I am not a supporter of Bush, but I can tell you this, it will take a lot more than one guy to “ruin” this great country.”

    That’s what they said about Arbusto Energy, Spectrum 7 and Caterair. 😉

  6. Major Schadenfreude

    “The more I think about it, old billy was right
    Let’s kill all the lawyers…”

    Neat lyrics. “Old Bill” is Shakespeare and “First thing we do is kill all the lawyers” is from one of his plays. Forget which one…

  7. Masterofdamoney

    This place will be a wonderful alternative to rent, at its late 2009/early 2010 price of… $275,000 – $290,000!

    Burn, baby, burn!

  8. longtimereader

    I have rented this footprint one street over for 2 years. My owner called me the other night to hit the eject button and put it up for sale. He was complaining that in the last 6 months he has lost a ton of money. I like him but unfortunatly there are at least 4 other properties within 500 feet for sale. Some for over 8 months. Good luck asking over 500 for these cracker boxes. My guy is starting at 490. He is smart guy and will drop that quickly to move this place. There go the comps and no way this guy gets out over 500.

  9. Iblis

    Ha ha! First Bush is a thundergod sending hurricanes to destroy his enemies. Now he has overcome the best instincts and innate frugality of the financial markets to inculcate unnatural greed into OC’s home buying population. Oh yeah, he killed the dinosaurs too.

    Go peddle that swill somewhere else.

  10. ipoplaya

    Today’s price drops (at least in my search spec):

    82 Montrose in NW, to $969K from $989K after 27 days on list. Still $405 per sf on a sub 2400 sf 4/2.5. Looks like this one could be a long-term “chase the market down type”.

    2569 Tea Leaf Ln, in Tustin, down to $949K from I believe $989K. Down to $356 per sf for a 4/2.5. Is right around the corner from a great elementary school (Ladera) and walking distance to Pioneer JH. Looks like the place has never been lived in… $100K of price drops on this one since list on 7/13.

    Couple of more adds in the 2000+ sf range, none at market pricing. Looks like people keep bringing them on at 2006 numbers.

  11. SawItComing

    What kind of idiot puts a travertine shower into a low end condo? If the current owner did this they stand to lose a lot more than 55.5 kilobucks. The bathroom looks like lipstick on a pig.

  12. covered


    Wow. That was a quick 200 large. This has to be a short sale or a jingle mail. He didn’t have the downpayment, so there’s no way he could have the ransom money. Ya think?

  13. Patience

    Bush is responsible for not ensuring adequate response to Katrina victims. For Pete’s sake, the idiot grew up in Houston which owes its prominence today to a hurricane that nearly destroyed Galveston:
    “Prior to the Hurricane of 1900, Galveston was considered to be a beautiful and prestigious city and was known as “the New York of the South.” However, after the storm, development shifted north to Houston, which was enjoying the benefits of the oil boom.”

    Anyone who has lived there should have known what would have followed, especially since New Orleans is under sea level. Then again, you would have to be an intelligent human being who thinks and reasons rather than an ignorant imbecile so sure he’s chosen by God that he doesn’t need to do any real intellectual work.

  14. MMG

    while I dont think it’s Bush’s fault solely, but under his admin, Greenspan was allowed to screw the system with his very low rates. I personally think if he didnt lower the rates for so long and prevented the housing bubble, we may have had a recession but nothing like the one we have coming WHICH EVERYONE WILL FEEL. OUCH

  15. caliguy2699

    Judging by some of the expensive-looking furnishings in the pictures (who needs two leather recliners in the same room?), I would tend to guess they’re not sitting on a pile of cash in the bank.

    I was half-expecting to see a late-model Hummer/Benz/BMW sitting in the driveway as well. Instead, in one of the photos we see a Red CRV and someone standing in the driveway, complete with what looks like a Starbucks drink in hand. Couldn’t they have waited 10 seconds for the person to move before taking the picture?

  16. Flip Ninja

    Kirk, it is easy to say that the people who voted for him are to blame. I am not a fan of bush; in fact, I am quite the opposite. It doesn’t stand to reason to say that bush shouldn’t have won, however bad of a president he is. He was our best choice, and if he is as bad as he is, imagine how Kerry would be! No thanks.

  17. NanoWest

    Well, I gave away a lot of trips when it looked like UA was going under. I keep the account under 200K miles now.

  18. IrvineRenter

    I am no fan of Bush, but he cannot be blamed for Greenspan’s actions. Greenspan inflated the first bubble (tech) and popped it while Clinton was still in office.

  19. HomeSchooled

    So Bush should have moved New Orleans so it wouldn’t be below sea level? Taken control from the mayor and governor? Made sure people knew what the word “evacuate” meant? Sent taxis to every residence? Funny how many here seem to support the idea of personal responsibility in the real estate market but not in other realms.

  20. Mr Vincent

    Formica? LOL…brings back memories of the first house I bought in 78, I sold the house two years ago…with the original formica counters and linolium(sp) floors still intack.

  21. Anonymous

    Saying Bush is better than Kerry is a bit like having a broken finger nail and saying: It’s better to cut off the whole finger than just clip the nail.

  22. Major Schadenfreude

    Nice blog Caliguy!

    I agree that I think IR is right about the path of destruction. I’ve got a friend who is renting in Ladera and watching the market (like a buzzard on one of those big power lines out there!). He reports that the place is filled with young families who have ARMs on homes with original purchase prices of $1.4 mil! They are all over the place and they can’t all be doctors & lawyers!

    I wish some of them would comment on our blog because I would love to know WTF are they thinking now that the burst is underway and WTF were they thinking taking out such ridiculous loans in the first place??????!!!!!!!!

  23. tonye


    The US owns the world. Not by our military… but by McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Pepsi and Coca Cola.

    We don’t need M1A1s, we just need to put some saltpeter into those Big Macs and Pepsis.

    Imagine… Pizza Hut in Napoli.

    We have conquered the world.

  24. No_Such_Reality

    People mistakenly think McDonalds sells hamburgers. What they sell is known consistency. It may be mediocre, but it’s consistent. Starbucks, Pizza Hut, Dunkin Donuts, are in reality, selling the same, consistency.

    You get an okay Cappucino instead of a lousy one at the expense foresaking a truely great cappucino.

  25. Sam

    IR, Hello.

    I am new to this blog. Isn’t it more accurate to calculate 3% for purchase price and 3% for sell price? Just a thought.


  26. No_Such_Reality

    Doh, hate the early return, cut off my thought.

    It’s actually similar to Irvine. TIC is selling consistency.

  27. caliguy2699

    Couldn’t agree more toyne about the media niches – good idea if they fit the type of TV you have, but now that the standard is flatscreen (and larger sizes of screen), they’re mostly unusable.

    I’ve seen them effectively put to use to fulfill such important functions as acting like a large shelf for very tall coffee table books, and supporting a mini garden of household plants.

    Unnecessary waste of time buying a property with a niche if it doesn’t support your media needs considering, like tonye said, you would basically have to tear down and start from scratch. I’d prefer a regular blank wall, so then I could customize from there.

  28. IrvineRenter

    I am glad you are covering these areas. The carnage will be more devastating in these communities — not that it won’t be bad here, but fringe markets always suffer first and drop harder than prime markets.

    I don’t think Zovall has you on our blog roll, you should email him. He can put you on.

  29. IrvineRenter

    Although a commission is split between the buyers broker and the sellers broker, the seller pays the entire fee. I suppose you could argue the buyer pays it indirectly through the purchase price, but when you close escrow, the commission is shown on the sellers side.

  30. Patience

    So how are people supposed to take personal responsibility when there were no planes or buses available out of the city? I assume you haven’t heard about the large number of tourists stranded there because of this. Bush sure should have taken some action rather than relying on “Brownie”.

    BTW, did you know that Bush now has the authority to take control of the National Guard from the governor for any reason he sees fit? (This was passed in response to the Katrina debacle.)

    John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 H.R. 5122
    Federal law was changed so that the Governor of a state is no longer the sole commander in chief of the National Guard during emergencies within the state. The President of the United States will now be able to take control of a state’s National Guard units without the governor’s consent.[3] In a letter to Congress all 50 governors opposed the increase in power of the president over the National Guard.[4]

  31. Lost Cause

    Bush certainly took credit for the sunshine. Don’t you remember the “Ownership Society” speech? Now let him take credit for the rain. Certainly this economy had nothing else going for it, besides paper profits in real estate, oil company profits, and defense spending.

  32. lg

    I don’t know if someone already commented on yesterday’s OC Register’s cover but:

    45.9 months of inventory in Santa Ana
    40.0 months of inventory in Dove Canyon
    27.3 months of inventory in Talega
    21.6 months of inventory in Anaheim
    20.7 months of inventory in Corona Del Mar

  33. Dan


    If you link to Itunes and become an affil. rather than post a pic of an album, you might be able to buy this house in two years………Thanks for all the work.

  34. Stupid

    Hey now. Isn’t there a constitutional right to bear ARMs? All’s fair in the pursuit of life, liberty, and consumer happiness.

  35. Sue

    Untold foreclosure story: Flippers in trouble

    A new wrinkle in the foreclosure drama: ForeclosureRadar reports today that 44.3% of the foreclosed homes sold at auction in California in August were non-owner occupied.

    “Many blame subprime lending for our current real estate crisis, but rampant speculation, even by those with great credit, played a leading role.” said Sean O’Toole, Founder and CEO of “The subprime market took the first hit as those borrowers had the least to lose when they walked away. Now that nearly half of foreclosures represent non-owner occupied properties, it is clear that speculators are walking away too.”

  36. No_Such_Reality

    Minor request, well, two actually.

    Is it possible to make the right hand recent comment box float?, with the recent explosion in volume (good thing) I’m wheeling up and down like mad.

    Also, is it possible to get the blog comments to highlight those that we haven’t read for those of use using an account?

  37. IrvineRenter

    I don’t know. Zovall may be able to do this. He is the software expert. He recently expanded the recent comment list, and he may need to do it again to help with the volume. I often click on a comment then hit the back button to get to the next comment. It is a bit cumbersome though. Perhaps we can get him to add another layer to the replys. Once it goes 4 levels deep, they become sequential.

  38. zovall

    I’m not sure how to implement the float. 🙁

    Integrating the blog comments with the forum logins is something we are working on. Once we get that done, I think it should be possible to highlight unread comments per user. I’m planning for the integration to happen in the next month or two.

  39. Trooper

    Probably also had something to due with The Governator’s initial refusal to send CA. Nat’l Guard Troops to help secure the border last year. W must have gotten pretty steamed at that one !

  40. Prime on an Island

    Fourth may be prime borrowers underwater, but for some of us, the recent drop is enough to warrant a jump back in 🙂

    I just grabbed one that was $80k / 15% under it’s listing price from 80 days ago – it may drop a bit more, but long term it should be pretty stable, and with a fixed loan and primary residence, it’s still affordable / worthwhile even if it’s upside down for 10 years….

    My thoughts: First purchase, Owner occupied, Prime borrower, Qualified, documented income = bargain market.

  41. tonye

    I’m a videophile and audiophile.. so sort of having built in to the ceiling the four side and rear surround speakers in the den, everything else is out in the open.

    It shows off my expensive cables (silver, gold, brown, thick, flat, thin… ), allows me to move things as needed and gives the speakers room to breath.

    My wife has made comments about a built in, but I think a Salamander rack will do as fine in the den as the current Target Rack does in the living room (topped by my Linn LP12).

    After all, it’s a matter of priorities… why spend money on the furniture when I can get a nicer display, better cartridge, different amp.. etc… priorities… the furniture makes it cleaner but it won’t sound or look better.

  42. NanoWest

    Yes, you get it…………our military is a small, small part of our dominance that guys like bush(old school) think are inportant. Our culture is our control… wacky as it is.

  43. CrashHappy

    To LG, or Lendingmaestro, or anyone who has answer to this:

    1. What are the ALL the consequences for someone who went into foreclosure? Is it similar to filing for brankruptcy in which that person cannot borrow for the next 7 years?

    2. Also, if someone sells their home short, How does the bank hold the borrower accountable for the mortgage(s)? Comments from people in this blog make it sound like it is very easy for the lender to just forget about the second loan. Again, what are the consequences for the borrower if the lender has to “eat up” the second loan?


  44. Irvine Soul Brother

    Totally agree with the media niche comment. I’ve spent a good amt of time in this layout (the plan 2, Oak Park) and yes, it is totally about CRT TVs: not very forward thinking. My best idea was to mount an LCD on the adjacent chimney pipe, but even that would be weird.

    Any ideas on where I could sell some old McIntosh Amps I’ve got laying around, Tonye?

  45. IrvineRenter

    A foreclosure is going to hurt someone’s credit in ways similar to a bankruptcy. Many people will actually follow a foreclosure with a bankruptcy because they will generally tap out every source of credit they have to avoid the foreclosure. These additional debts often put them into bankruptcy.

    In a short sale situation in which there is a second mortgage, the mortgage holder would have the right to go after any assets of the borrower. In many cases these borrowers have no assets, so the banks don’t bother. Lately, the banks have been so overwhelmed with short sales that they do not have the staff to go after collections aggressively. I look for that to change during the next year. Banks don’t walk away from loans even though it looks like they are right now. The FBs do not get a free pass.

  46. Kirk

    Good point. I interpret the Constitution like I interpret the Bible. Literally. I withdraw my opposition to ARM’s.

  47. mark

    You can use online calculators to determine how a foreclosure affects a credit score. You don’t often see prime credit records with just a foreclosure, but this will increase over the next few years. However, the ones I’ve seen appear to be about 100 pts lower than they would otherwise be.

    Foreclosure law is very complicated. In CA, borrowers have layers of protection that will allow most to simply walk away. CA has a “one action” rule that requires lenders to choose either liquidating the collateral or taking a personal action against the borrower. Also, purchase money loans (loans used to acquire property as opposed to refis or HELOCs) afford special protection for borrowers.

  48. mark

    Also, lenders break-down their rate sheets using foreclosures. e.g. Even if your 830 FICO only dropped to 730 a month after your foreclosure, and that 730 score would normally entitle you to the lender’s best rates, the foreclosure will bump your rate up. As you get further away from the foreclosure, the bump will diminish.

    Prime – 6.50%
    Prime w/foreclosure in last year – 8.50%
    Prime w/foreclosure in last 2 years – 7.50%
    Prime w/foreclosure in last 3 years – 7.25%
    Prime w/foreclosure in last 4 years – 7.00%

  49. lg

    I am not an expert on the legal/tax consequences of a foreclosure, short sale and bankruptcy but here is a little of what I know.

    In terms of obtaining a mortgage after one of these events, current lending guidelines will allow someone to obtain a loan relatively soon after the event given that they (1) have re-established credit, (2) are willing to take an ugly rate, and (3) have a rather significant down-payment.

    The more important question is probably what ramifications these events have on a borrower trying to obtain a prime loan.

    Bankruptcy: For a prime loan, some lenders will disregard it after 3-4 years even though it will still appear on a borrower’s credit. Most of the best lenders will require 5-7 years after it has been discharged.

    Foreclosure: Lenders actually view this as less favorable than someone who declared BK. Most prime lenders do not want to see any history of a foreclosure even though a BK discharged 4 years ago will be acceptable.

    Short Sale: Depending on how the bank reports this on the borrower’s credit (“paid” would be preferred, “settled for less than full amount” and “short payoff” are not desired), it can have the same effect as a foreclosure (regarding obtaining a new mortgage). If it appears as paid, you might be in the clear.

    Of course keep in mind that the payment history prior to the event and after also are key factors in how lenders assess risk. For example, a borrower who was making late payments up until a BK may have 4 years of clean credit and a strong score but the new lender may not want to see any late mortgage payments in the past 7 years but will allow a BK discharged in the past 4 years.

    Again, this is where an attorney and/or CPA should step in but this is what I know.

    There are several differences between a BK, foreclosure and short sale as it effects taxes and other assets.

    Bankruptcy: Ask a lawyer.

    Short Sale: Most people believe that they can walk away from all their headaches through a short sale. Unfortunately, there are still several things that can come back to haunt you. Since there is a loss on a short sale, you will be required to pay taxes on the difference between the amount owed and the amount of a short sale. If the existing loans were non-purchase money loans (from a cash-out refinance or new HELOC), you may also be required to pay taxes on the cash-out amount. Despite the tax liability, this may be favored since a short sale may result in the ability to payoff a 1st lien holder and still have cash available to pay a portion to the 2nd lien holder. This would reduce your potential tax liability (versus being taxed on the whole amount of the 2nd loan in a foreclosure). Since the lenders are accepting a short sale, they cannot go after your other assets.

    Foreclosure: This is where the 1st lien holder will take over the property. Any 2nd lien holder (or others) will be erased. If the existing loans were obtained for the purchase of the home and not new loans from a refinance, the bank cannot come after your assets (non-recourse). However, if the existing loans are from a refinance or if you have a purchase money 1st and a new non-purchase money 2nd, the bank can come after your assets (recourse). However, as IR stated, most will not have any assets the bank would consider worth pursuing. Since any 2nd loan is erased, the borrower would be responsible for the full loss (and any loss on the 1st) as part of their tax liability. This is where a short-sale is preferred since a portion of the 2nd may be paid down.

    Again, I am not an expert and am very open to anyone’s input to clarify some of my points.

  50. lg

    one (of many, i’m sure) correction to what i wrote on foreclosures as they relate to obtaining a new prime loan is that certain prime investors will consider offering prime loans to borrowers with foreclosures that occurred “X” number of years ago. a quick check of 3-4 major lenders’ underwriting guidelines indicated that they will accept borrowers with foreclosures 4-5 years ago.

  51. SawItComing

    Kind of OT, but for some reason I thought Tonye was a female. I dont mean to offend, but its funny how we make assumptions on things. I wonder if I have ever been wrong about anything else in the past :)…gives one cause to wonder huh?

  52. tonye

    hmmm….. relax… don’t flame…. relax….

    Sell the amps on

    Female…. what the hell? I flick my cigar ashes on your general direction. With prejudice, no less. Last time I went to the bathroom I peed standing up….

    Why? because I can quote you how to build a house? Jeez man… you can not believe the amount of work and decisions that you have to do and take… I once spent half an hour with a file so that an outlet would move a quarter of an inch to the right so the range back would fit… on a 20 foot wall.. a quarter of an inch.

    That’s a manly thing. I woman would have gotten a man to do it.

    Me, being a man… well hell, I got the file.

    Next day I bought a dremel tool.

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