The Sharpsburg Bloodbath – Update #2

10 Sharpsburg actually sold at the auction on 7-18-2007 for $670,114.35 a full penny over the opening bid amount. At $270 a sqft that puts an Irvine home below the $300 mark. Ouch!

(A special thanks to graphix for the update)

President Abraham Lincoln and Gen. George B. McClellan in the general’s tent
Sharpsburg, Maryland|Antietam, Maryland, October 3, 1862

(Sorry, no property photos are available.)

Old Asking Price: $850,000

New Asking Price: $795,000

Purchase Price: $799,000
Purchase Date: 6/27/2005

Address: 10 Sharpsburg, Irvine, CA 92620

Beds: 4IrvineRenter
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.*: 2,710
Lot Sq. Ft.*: 5,300
Year Built: 1979
Stories: 2
Type: Single Family Residence
Neighborhood: Northwood
$/Sq. Ft.*: $314
MLS: S481159
Status: Active on market
On Redfin: 15 days

I learn something new with each of these posts. Today I learned the civil war battle most of us know as Antietam, the bloodiest single day in our nation’s military history, was known in the South as the Battle of Sharpsburg. Is our flipper on Sharpsburg due for a bloodletting? Let’s see.

From Redfin: “This home shows beautifully. NOW REDUCED TO THE RIDICULOUS!!!! Very light and bright with vaulted ceilings, french doors, lots of added can lights through out. Remodeled baths include new fixtures and granite counters. Great floorplan with master bedroom down, 3 bedrooms up AND pool table sized bonus room too!! Freshly painted and newer berber carpet and tile floors through out. Great cul de sac location W/ 2 car garage AND covered parking for 3rd car. BANK READY FOR OFFERS!!!!”

Another realtor who uses too many exclamation points… and the words “light and bright”…

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{adsense}
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If this house sells for asking price and assuming a 6% commission, our seller will net exactly $0, nada, nothing. Almost two years of ownership with no appreciation. Doesn’t leave them with much room to negotiate on the price, does it? I can just imagine the negotiations: you would be haggling over how much this guy was going to lose. It might actually be entertaining if you are in to inflicting pain. Are you feeling the schadenfreude?

Who was saying they wouldn’t just “give it away?”

**** UPDATE #1 ****

Now the seller is looking at a $55,000 loss. Also, it appears the short sale has been cleared through the bank.

36 thoughts on “The Sharpsburg Bloodbath – Update #2

  1. crucialtaunt

    If they are not flippers, who are they, and why are they selling???

    Also, I am going to officially proclaim bloggers answer ??? to realtors !!! as a way of exclaiming WTF???
    —–

  2. Dave

    Who cares what they think? Remember: they planned to buy it so they could stick it to someone ELSE a year or two down the road, sticking those nice double-digit profits in THEIR portfolio to help fund THEIR retirement nest egg.

    So am I supposed to sacrifice mine and my family’s future retirement nest egg by buying a sinking asset, simply so THEY don’t lose money on THEIR bad investment? Buy that house, and you’re buying a white elephant.

    Sure, they want out at the same price they paid (minus realtor’s fees). But wake up and smell the coffee: the price they paid was largely inflated based on speculative worth, i.e. they had a reasonable expectation of getting a greater return on investment. So now that the false assumption that “housing only goes up” has been disproved, it’s almost guaranteed that the asset will DEPRECIATE: so why would I pay their rose-colored price 2005 price in 2007?

    Oh, yeah: simply to do them a big favor and let them bail out, not to mention avoiding hurting their feelings by insulting them with a low-ball offer (that no doubt isn’t low enough, anyway). We wouldn’t want to inflicting an emotional boo-boo on their “bad things never happen to me” ego?

    You mean, like how sellers didn’t want to insult buyers during the run-up, by listing insultingly unreal high prices? Yeah, sure…..

    Emotions and egos aside, I’d have to think twice about buying that house for even 50% off what they’re asking, in this 4/07 market, knowing what I know….

  3. momopi

    If you guys need a property photo, you can nab it via http://www.homeseekers.com. They have 9 pictures of this property posted there.

    Pricing aside, the interior looks pretty nice for an old home. Is that wooden shingles I see on the roof??

  4. RogerSmith8080

    Moving in the right direction.
    For a while it’s been take my house and give me my 30% profit, I would rather the bank have it then not make a profit. Now the more reasonable sellers are realizing if that if they can make it out of this housing market with the exact same amount of money they entered they are winners. Now when the house won’t sell for that then we are going to see the panic.

    Just in the NAR has finally conceded that the median price for a home is lower YoY. The sky must be falling because this means housing prices CAN go down in the US. I think this single event will have a very negative impact on house prices. Houses are officially a bad investment, at this moment something the NAR has all but promised would NEVER happen has taken place. The spring bounce or recovery is a bust, we have not yet hit bottom and now Alt-A’s have been showing higher than expected foreclosure rates which means more inventory. The inventory keeps increasing and sales are relatively stagnant, sure you got small bounces MoM but if graph what those increases look like against YoY they show a downward trend.

    The thing about panics is that the more people you have the worst it is. The longer it takes before you get panic the more inventory you are going to have. I don’t know what will trigger it, will it be Counrywide filing chapter 13, will it be Alt-A foreclosures tripling, will it be +$400,000,000,000 in loans resetting this year, will it be a stock market crash? I don’t know but it will take place probably sooner rather than later.

  5. Norcalboomer

    The American Civil War was a national tragedy that has yet ( and I hope never) to be equaled on American soil. Although the current Housing Bubble pales in comparison and nature, it is somewhat ironic to think that the current situation may result in disaster for many American families, just as the War Between the States devastated so many American lives and fortunes so many years ago.

  6. Citizen

    What happened to Gary Watt? The great forecaster of RE in OC. Didn’t he guarantee price increases for 2006-2007?

  7. Dave

    Let’s not break out Kleenexes for sellers just yet:

    http://tinyurl.com/2kg7ta

    WITH HOME appreciation rates hardly budging over the last year, you might think homeowners are getting a raw deal when they sell. Not so. Most Bay Area homeowners who sold a house in February made a hefty six-figure profit, a new survey shows.

    How much? Sellers made a median profit of $290,000, or a 74 percent gain, when they turned the keys over to the new owner. That translates into a median sales price of $680,000 on a house typically purchased 67 months earlier for $390,000, according to the survey from First American CoreLogic, which compiles data on property ownership.

    The survey compared the February median sales price of existing single-family houses with the house’s previous median price in the Bay Area and five Southern California counties. The median price is the point at which half sold for less and half sold for more. The survey also calculated a median for the number of months between sales.

    All told, 58 percent of Bay Area sellers made a profit of at least 50 percent when they sold their home, and 42.4 percent made a profit of at least 100 percent, the survey found. On the other end of the spectrum, 5.9 percent of sellers lost money on the transaction.

    “Almost all the people who lost money held for three years or less,” said Christopher Cagan, director of research and analytics at First American CoreLogic. “This tells us that residential real estate is something for the long term, which is what it is supposed to be. The point of getting a
    house is for a place to live for several years. And people who do that will generally do well when they sell.”

    Although most sellers did well, the yearly double-digit appreciation gains of the red-hot market of two years ago are over for now. From February 2006 to February 2007, the median sales price for an existing single-family house in the Bay Area climbed 2.3 percent to $744,250, according to the California Association of Realtors.

    Still, most sellers of single-family houses in Alameda, Contra Costa and San Mateo counties who sold a house in February 2007 made a hefty profit, according to the survey.

    Isn’t THAT lovely? The flippers and investors who managed to bail out passed a ticking time bomb on to some FB sucker who WILL now be sitting on a house that WILL depreciate.

    Citizens, our glorious Nation just played a massive game of Musical Houses, or Housing Roulette, where the winner pocketed an average of $260k profits that was funded by the sucker who assumed the risk! The best part: you didn’t really have to use REAL money to get in on the game!! Virtually risk-free, huh?

    But wait: now the Gov’t wants to bail out the ones left holding the bag? In the big picture, it seems fair: after all, the winners NEEDED a sucker to bail them out, and no one wants to lose money in a “sure to appreciate” asset, right? Seems only fair for the Gov’t to bail them out: after all, Dear God, what WOULD happen if the populace lost confidence in the housing market OR their Government? God Forbid THAT!!

    People, winning the great housing scam of 2000-2006 was better than winning the Lottery, as $260k is better than buying a winning lottery ticket! This one was GUARANTEED to win!! In hindsight, Lereah was right, huh?

    How extremely sad that our Government can’t protect our housing market from Ponzi schemes like this, but worse yet, actually ENCOURAGES such games in the form of tax policy, interest rate tinkering, lack of regulation for fair credit laws that are ALREADY ON THE BOOKS (as a result of the problems after the LAST bubble/doom). Now the Government is discussing offering bail-outs we cannot afford, etc.

    Heads on Capitol Hill SHOULD roll for this mess, and the regulators SHOULD be thrown in prison for looking the other way.

    How sad that our leaders (especially Bush) cannot come up with a better idea of funding retirement, except by encouraging and sponsoring Ponzi schemes (first the dotcom crash, and now this)…. Someone’s GOT to be kidding here, right?

  8. zovall

    renter, the moderation is nothing new. The blogging software automatically marks certain posts for moderation. As soon as I see that happening, I try to fix it. The main purpose is to help with spam.

  9. ripcord

    Dave,

    Interesting point. I certainly made a once-in-a-lifetime profit when I sold my Irvine home in November. I pity the buyers should anything happen to their income stream in the next few years. They bought a 70s dump on a postage stamp lot for 900k. Maybe I’ll buy it back for 650k in a few years when I go back to Irvine…

  10. Dave

    Yep, sounds like you were fortunate to get out when you did, as the subprime meltdown may be slowing the exits. ALTHOUGH, I know the REIC members are doing WHATEVER they can to keep the ball rolling, EVEN IF it means putting outright unqualified buyers in houses they never could afford. As stated, above mortgage/broker fraud is rampant, and I suspect it’s only going to get worse: brokers/agents will NOT simply walk away and let the market return to untampered status after they’ve gotten away with fixing it for years…

    For example:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070413/lf_nm/usa_subprime_fraud_dc_3

    Here’s $600 a week couples buying $750k homes in the Bay Area:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/04/13/carollloyd.DTL&feed=rss.surrealestate

  11. Markus Arelius

    Man, McClellan was a collossal military idiot! How in the hell did he became General of the Army of the Potomac. Must have been good at playing with wooden soldiers on a map as a military theorist, but on the field he had no cajones. Gotta love the irony in our American history – a severe alcoholic would later excel in McClellan’s role, and would later become President.

    …but as far as the price negotiation to sell this house, one can only imagine what a gut-wrenching, soul-crushing experience that will be for this homedebtor. No sleep, Rahmen noodles and stomach acid. What a horrible mixture.

  12. GavriloPrincip

    It’s even worse that breaking even if seller gets $850–he’s already underwater at that price. He posted today on Craig’s List, where he claims he owes $880,000 on the house. So if he gets $850, net of 6% commission, he’s still got $80k in taxable COD income. Truly a f***ed buyer (borrower).

    http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/rfs/312992455.html

    $850000 MUST SELL- IRVINE SHORT SALE

    ——————————————————————————–
    Reply to: hous-312992455@craigslist.org
    Date: 2007-04-16, 11:49AM PDT

    BEAUTIFUL HOME LOCATED IN IRVINE NEAR BRYAN AND YALE, 4 BEDROOMS AND 3 BATHROOMS- 2700 Sq. Ft. The end of a cal-de-sac, light and airy, berber carpet and new tile throughout, bathrooms all updated with granite and brushed nickel fixtures, scraped ceilings, sky lights. Ready to move in, my shortfall can be your gain! I owe $880k, and the bank says look at all offers!

    Please call 949-838-5438, NO AGENTS OR BROKERS!
    10 SHARPSBURG, IRVINE

    Location: IRVINE
    it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

    PostingID: 312992455

  13. lee in irvine

    I wonder how much Zillow has influenced this market. Most of us Bitter Renters realize it’s absolutely useless, however there is a segment of our population that follows it like the bible.

  14. oc_fliptrack

    “This home shows beautifully. NOW REDUCED TO THE RIDICULOUS!!!!”

    Formerly priced at the insane. Get it while it’s hot!!1!

  15. Major Schadenfreude

    A consequence of buying at the top of the bubble is that it will weaken the bargaining position of the homeowner/employee.

    I imagine a lot of buyers of the last few years were young couples just starting out who were told by well-intentioned parents that buying a first home was a struggle for them too. Then there were the realtors who were incessantly proclaiming that the rates would not be this low forever and they should buy now or forever be priced out.

    We are now just starting what will probably be a very protracted downward cycle and this Sharpsburg “casualty” is already set to lose $55,000 at a minimum. Think about it. He is about to lose practically a year’s salary (after taxes) just because the house was purchased at the wrong time.

    In a couple of years home sale losses will certainly be greater. Also at this time, many of the young new homeowners may be attracting the eye of the competition that might not be headquartered in the region. Normally the young employee/homeowner would be able to present the competition’s offer to the present employer and demand the offer be matched. However, human resources need only to look at the public records to find out what was paid for the house. If selling the house would result in a great loss, then the employer will know the employee won’t leave.

    Very sinister! It reminds me of Grisham’s The Firm, except this time it isn’t infidelity to a spouse that keeps the employee from leaving, it is infidelity to reason while purchasing a house!

    My advice to the young folks who may see this in their future: Get out now while you can!

  16. DisplacedOCer

    That house is worth every penny because it has beatiful wood paneling in one room and a breath taking brick wall in the living room. Outstanding! (pause) NOT

  17. Lost Cause

    NOW REDUCED TO THE RIDICULOUS

    OK — Here is some ridicule. A 1979 house going for a hair under $800k is still a hairy payment — quite delusional since someone with this kind of money to burn, would just shell out for the almost new Mc Mansion. If someone wanted to be subjected to rules 24/7 they could just stay at the Greybar Hotel, on the taxpayer dime, instead of paying a dear sum to live in Irvine. (Some rights reserved by the Irvine Co.)

  18. nirvinerealtor

    crucialtaunt,

    Does not have to be a flipper.

    There another way to look at this. Instead of why are they selling, why not ask why are they buying.

    The buyer bought the home 100% financing so there was no cost here. And the buying agent made 2.5 – 3% of sale price as commission.

    At least someone was making some money. And the buyer can stay rent-free if he/she did not make mortgage payments.

    I once knew someone with poor credit that he could not get into a rental. In desperation he bought a home with 100% financing and later got evicted by the bank after 2 years living rent free (I was not his agent).

  19. Tyrone

    I was kinda’ eyeing that red brick wall, myself–licking my chops over it, actually. And the wood paneling–sweeeet! If this were 2006 I’d offer a cool MIL for it, but since it’s 2007 and reality is setting in, I’m going to use Zillow, extend the 10-year steady appreciation, and offer what it is really worth: $350K.

  20. ocbear

    Buyers in this market really don’t really care about the prior situation of the owner, bank, or anyone else. The question is “with 20% or greater down can I afford a 30 year fixed rate loan on my current income.” The answer for most people in OC is no. If its yes, you are probably looking in Newport or Laguna.

  21. NickStone

    Irvine Renter:

    Just to be anal, let’s add up all of the losses. We will be REALLY nice and assume that there were no closing costs at the purchase, no loan fees, and that the loan was had a 3% teaser rate, and the lender will allow the short sale and not hit the flipper for any penalties.

    3% Interest (2 Years): $47,940.00
    Property Taxes (2 Years): $19,975.00
    Short Sale Loss: $55,000.00

    TOTAL LOSS: $122,915.00

    Of course the real number is more, but this is pretty bad already.

  22. John

    I don’t look at myself in the bathroom. Why do I want granite in there.

    I am usually half asleep or in a rush.

  23. graphrix

    I am not sure what the status of this place is but it is scheduled for auction on the 18th for $666k. Now that is an evil and ridiculous price reduction.

  24. graphrix

    10 Sharpsburg actually sold at the auction yesterday for $670,114.35 a full penny over the opening bid amount. At $270 a sqft that puts an Irvine home below the $300 mark. Ouch!

  25. No_Such_Reality

    LOL, someone picked it up for 1 cent over the original 1st loan? What is that 17% below the 2005 sales price?

    You didn’t happen to see the auction for the place on Hogar over in East Bluff Newport did you?

  26. graphrix

    I did see that one 73 cents over the opening bid. But what was up with the one on Cajon that sold for $150k? I have a feeling that was just the second lien but why would anyone pay dollar for dollar on a second lien. If it was the first lien someone got a 70% discount on a condo in Newport.

    Oh and did you see the home in Laguna Beach that went back to the bank for $773k? I thought port-a-potties sold for a mil in Laguna?

  27. LAEF2

    About Sharpsburg,

    What a brutal battle. McClellan (chicken heart) actually had a copy of Lee’s invasion plan.

    The two armies waded into each other in open fields. Several rows from each side were cut down facing each other across a corn field. The men died in neat little rows.

    Burnside (sideburn fame) was supposed to take the flank of the Confederate Army but got stuck crossing a creek at what is know as Burnsides bridge. A bunch of confedrate sharpshooters had entrenchments elevated across from the stream and pepper the union troops as they tried to cross a narrow bridge.

    They had to march miles back up stream to finally enagage. Tom Jackson was late but finally arrived and kept the confederates from being finished off.

    The confederates beat a hasty retreat back over the river to virginia. Of course chicken heart failed to persue the smaller conederate force and pin them against the river. Afraid of a confederate counter punch he went back to washington. If he had persued Lee would have been delayed in crossing the river and union renenforcements could have been brought in and siezed control of the river. Sat back and peppered Lee with artillary and finished him off.

    Would have ended the war early and saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Anyhow… Mc Clellan was considered a genius.

  28. Rockysan99

    Northwood Pointe compkiller

    Drives the price down, looking for $315 sq ft, smaller units in same tract looking for 548 sq ft. Looks like a $151,000 loss before commission. Can you spell O-U-C-H?

    51 SCONSET LN
    Irvine, CA 92620
    Beds: 3 On Redfin: 4 days
    Baths: 2.5 Year Built: 2000
    SQ.FT.: 2,000 Lot Size: –
    $/SQ.FT.: $315 MLS#: S497195
    Status: Active
    Last Sale: $780,000 (05/16/2006)
    Listing: Mike Meyers, Broke

  29. No_Such_Reality

    Thanks. I didn’t get a chance to go, but saw that one on the list. It backed up to the busy east bluff main road.

    It will be interesting to see if someone brings them back to market. It’s possible to squeak out a profit on a simple dress and flip, but in a down market, that’ll be like passing up a hill.

  30. No_Such_Reality

    10 Sharpsburg just showed up on the Countrywide REO list. Redfin shows the last sale as 8/20/2007 at $670,114.

    I wonder if Countrywide’s REO site is messed up?

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