Rallies don’t last forever, despite what realtors may say. This seller was hoping he was making hay while the sun shines, but he was late to the harvest, and now he is a 2004 rollback.
Asking Price: $599,900
Purchase Price: $600,000
Purchase Date: 6/1/2004
Address: 172 Hayward, Irvine, CA 92602
Beds: 3
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 1,588
Year Built: 2001
Stories: 3
Type: Condominium
County: Orange
Neighborhood: Northpark
$/Sq. Ft.: $378
MLS#: S479574
Status: Active on market
On Redfin: 110 days
Unsold in 90+ days
From Redfin, “IMMACULATE HOME IN GATE GAURDED COMMUNITY OF NORTHPARK. .. SHOWS VERY NICE. .. UPGRADED THROUGHOUT WITH HARDWOOD FLOORS IN LIVING ROOM, KITCHEN AND ALL BEDROOMS. .. THRIRD BEDROOM IS USED AS AN OFFICE WITH ANICE BUILT-INS. .. GOURMET KITCHEN WITH COIAN COUNTERTOP AND FULL BACK SPLASH AND GE APPLIANCES. .. . PLANTATION SHUUTERS, CLOSET ORGANIZERS AND MUCH MUCH MORE. .”
Do realtors have a spell checker? And what is an ANICE?
.
.
I am finding more and more of these 2004 rollbacks. Assuming a 6% commission, and assuming a property that has sat on the market for 110 days sells at its asking price, this seller is going to lose $36,094 on a 2004 purchase. Do you think this person was told, “prices won’t crash, they might level out for a while, but they won’t actually DROP.” Well, this seller seems to be stubbornly holding to the flatline. I have a news flash for them, “Prices do drop.”
Anice built-ins undoubtedly refers to anise built-ins, which means all of the built-ins have a nice (or, anice) licorice scent.
I am wondering about plantation shuuters. Does he mean shooters? Mint juleps anyone? Perhaps he is referring to drive-by shooters, taking aim at this home from the cotton fields.
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>Do realtors have a spell checker? And what is an ANICE?
ANICE appears to be the THRIRD misspelled word in the listing.
I’m no longer shocked by the deteriorating standards of the people that represent the real estate business. I’ve come to expect that a lot of them cannot write and know less about the business than I do.
I wonder how long it’s going to be before IrvineRenter writes about a 2003 rollback.
This sure is fun to watch.
I dont like this place. Looking at the overhead on redfin, the buildings are all bunched together. Feels more like an apartment complex.
I would rather buy the place highlighted yesterday on Green Tree Lane.
If I was forced to buy this, I would pay 250K for it. We have a long way down to go.
PS: Someone want to explain that garage to me? Is that big enough for two cars?
PS2: Regarding all the mistakes that agents make on the prop descriptions – I guess I am used to it since I have been living in an asian community for the last several years. Most of the descriptions that have grammar mistakes are from asian agents. I have no problem with that, its just kinda funny to read those.
Definitely agree with you on the property on Green Tree Lane. (Are we on track for property chicken? – who buys(flinches) first ha ha ha).
I don’t mind this property, I’m just wondering why the sale after 3 years? Are they trying to unload a depreciating asset or just interested in moving up the ladder?
Anyways good luck and don’t work too hard.
-bix
I found four misspelled
ANICE
GAURDED
THRIRD
SHUUTERS
Whoops, make that five
COIAN
At least there are few of the real estate buzzwords in this advertisement. I did not see “nestled,” which appears in almost every real estate ad. Also, no “charmer” or “cozy.”
Why don’t they just abbreviate like they do in automobile ads??
NICE HOME!!! 3BR, 2BA, SKYLTS, GRMT KTCH, BTFL YRD, NEW CPT, NWR TL FLRS, SPCL LNDSCPNG, GRD AT FR GTE, XLNT COND!!! WON’T LAST LONG AT THIS PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That satellite view is nasty. Nothing but alleys, garages and dense housing. Why do people buy these kind of homes when for the same amount you could get an older place with a yard, space and greenery? I also would take the University park place over this in a heartbeat, and would gladly pay a premium to do so. I hope that the collapsing bubble forces builders to design new less dense housing product like the older areas. The housing stock of the past decade (or 2) sucks.
I do not see the appeal at all. Apparently some people like these kind of homes because the builders keep building them and buyers gobble them up. These are 3 bedrooms so I assume that there are families with kids in the area. Where do they play? In the alleys? That one tiny park?
Yes, but ANICE was the THRIRD one.
No really, I think they build to cost. Jack up the price and build small and compact and you get more money per SqFt. than you could with a regular home. Better to sell an inferior product that no product at all.
-bix
Q: And what is an ANICE?
A: ANICE is that little aperture on your dorsal side below your COIAN. It is also sometimes referred to as SHUUTERS.
I think the owners will be driven to drink when they sell the house and realize the loss.
Then they will be liquor-ish for quite a while.
SCHB
What blows me away is that the Realtor has had 110 days to correct all these silly misspellings and is too stupid or lazy to do so.
SCHB
LOL – my mental movie was of some new FBs licking the woodwork.
Why smell when you can taste?
http://www.engrish.com
That was funny!
I grew up on vinyl and yet I still know exactly what you meant.
IMPORTANT NEWS FLASH:
Masterofdamoney has alerted me of the following:
The state of Minnesota has just enacted a new predatory lending bill, that while having the best intentions of its constituents at heart, will utterly destroy the state’s economy. Effective 08/01/2007
here is the link:
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H1004.0.html&session=ls85
Here is a summary:
1) no neg am loans
2) ONLY FULL-DOC loans
3) no prepayment penalties
4) Any arm loans must be qualified at the max rate
5) no marketing by mail, radio, or tv in the state
I LOVE 2004 Rollbacks!
Do you think we’ll hit 2003 prices by the end of the year?
That would be a mighty accomplishment!
Gourmet kitchen? WTF? I think the condo we rented in Kona had a kitchen like this one and they didn’t advertise it as gourmet.
The term is so overused as to be meaningless nowadays.
I’ve seen “gourmet kitchens” advertised in cheap apartments up in Washington State too.
I suppose a non gourmet kitchen would be something straight out the Somalian back country? A hole on the slab to burn wood and a bucket to fetch the water from the local well?
Personally, I think that bill is a model to what should happen here in California. Minnesota just guaranteed there will not be another housing bubble in its state.
Of course, if the legislature were to enact that here in California, the housing market would immediately implode and take the economy with it. It is the kind of legislation that could be enacted at the bottom, particularly when the pain of the crash is fresh in everyone’s mind.
Can’t stop laughing
How about a rental WTF hall of fame?
Look at
http://rentals.realtor.com/rentals/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=92603&ml=3&typ=40&sid=d12d0c71c48444f9850f3c73821dc36e&sdir=1&sby=2&pg=6&lid=1077457929&lsn=56&srcnt=56#Detail
They are asking $25K/month for this…
We need to get a petition going to do the same thing in Cali.
“no neg am loans” and “ONLY FULL-DOC loans”
That’s awesome! Funny, Ditech is already running commercials for 30 yr fixed rate loans where the first 10 years is interest only with no neg am.
I think IrvineRenter profiled this property as a sale a week or two ago.
Here is another link thats gives an overview of the law which was signed on April 20th:
http://tinyurl.com/37rukj
Looks horrible.
Why are the windows so small: use to be that California style was “open”, no transition form in to out. That is what was attractive for “us” from the “olde country” where windows are just holes in stone walls…
That is not a garage [no one uses garages for cars in California, that has been forbidden long time ago, no it is strictly to store stuff]. But as a storage, that is really cramped.
Oh, what fun …
Unfortunately if this was enacted in California it would become a ghost-town. I am guessing that this law will be repealed in Minnesota by the end of the year.
I agree w/IR that no further legislation, only the current market forces in place, are needed to facilitate this crash. Once all hell has broken loose we can revisit lending practices.
The predatory lending regs should be put in place to keep housing in check to prevent a bubble, not to facilitate its downfall.
This is a perfect example of how much money builders made from 2001-2006 with low borrowing rates and low construction costs.
This was purchased new from the builder in 2004 for 600k which is horrendously overpriced. I can’t even begin to fathom what the total cost to construct this paper mache house was. I’m guessing between 275k to 325k?? I’ve noticed when I “roll to perm” construction loans that the difference between the final completed appraised value and the cost to build is staggering. Sometimes the completed appraisal is double the building cost.
Why should it be worth anything more than the materials and labor it took to build? I don’t care what rates are, what job growth looks like, etc.. Anytime a good/product trades above its intrinsic value, it is speculation.
Ironically, that $25,000 a month is about the right rental price to make buying comparable to renting.
The only issue is that you can rent a comparable place readily for less than $5000.
Personally I think people should have the freedom to spend their money and their credit in a manner they desire, and I don’t think the state should protect people from themselves.
These loans are getting to be standard. Interest only for the first 10 years at a fixed rate. Then it floats after year 10 and you pay fully amortizing payments. Thus, you have the “safety” of fixed interest rates for 10 whole years along with the “affordability” of the interest only function. I see these getting real popular real quick
As long as people are using those loans because they have a better use for their capital, I’m fine.
When they get’em because the $40 a month for every $100K they borrowed makes the difference, it’s another story.
For a $645K loan ($800K house with 20% down), the payment difference is $275/month. Of course, in year ten when the loan floats, the IO payment jumps to $1000/month more. At the same time, the 30 year fixed owes basically $100,000 less on their loan.
Basically, IMHO, if you aren’t using it because you could pay the loan off today, you just have better use for your money, odds are you using it to live in too much house.
BTW, I think you mean the 30 year IO fixed. It’s fixed 30 year loan where you get the first 10 years to be IO. Then amortize without the float.
ARMs have been messed up for a while, the longer the lock in period, the lower the APR and face rate.
See Chase: http://mortgage.chase.com/alt/altdel/AveARates.jsp?points=0&full=y
Legislation of lending on the state level ALWAYS ends in failure.
This bill will singlehandedly destroy their housing values to an extent that no one will believe – not even the hardest bears on here.
The economy will be destroyed. Unemployment will go up by double digits in MONTHS.
If you don’t believe it, consider this:
Full documentation ONLY
NO PREPAYS ALLOWED
NO NEG AM LOANS ALLOWED
ALL ARMS QUALIFIED ON THE ‘worst case scenario’ in YEAR 7?!?
The main 2 problems are No prepays, Full documentation only.
These two forces actively battle against each other. Without prepays, any subprime, alt-a, or EVEN straight A lending is all going to be at 1-3% higher rates. Mix this with ONLY full documentation qualifying, and you just eliminated 80-90% of the current possible homebuyers from the market. GONE. This INCLUDES current homeowners who now cannot qualify for a new loan on the home they own.
What happens when no one can qualify for a home loan? Home sales grind to a halt. Prices must then PLUMMET to levels that will support full documentation at HIGHER rates.
And I pity all those in homes who have ARMS right now, or used stated/no doc income to qualify for a loan, or anyone who loses their job (goodbye full doc!!), or anyone who gets hurt and can’t work, etc… Plummeting prices + any of the above = instant foreclosure. DO not pass go.
A massive drop in home prices, plus a massive increase in foreclosures. Buyers wiped off the market for years! Also gone will be their credit – consumer spending with PLUMMET. Goodbye car dealerships! Restaurants, Home Depot, electronics stores, furniture stores, everything will follow suit. The ripple will make it to the edges of the pond.
Unemployment surges, further reducing prices. State Income taxes will plummet, as will amounts collected from state taxes on purchases and property taxes. Unemployment will skyrocket, as will crime and suicide rates. Even the government jobs will disappear (due to drastically lower tax rakes).
In addition, there is no end point for the carnage. New business will NOT reappear in a void of money to ‘revitalize’ this ravished economy. The lack of available cash is ‘end game’ for it.
My prediction is: This legislation will not surive more than 1/2 a year. The people will NOT allow their entire world to be destroyed.
If it lasts 1 year, it will probably take 5-10 to recover from the damage it causes.
I agree with you generally, but when people are dumb and doing things that will harm everyone around them, then maybe there should be some rules or laws, wouldnt you agree.
the owner want to be cash flow positive. now I wonder if they financed, if it is sitting empty, what are the carrying costs on this monster. ouch
“Why should it be worth anything more than the materials and labor it took to build”
Duh, because of the price of land.
If you want cheaper housing prices, tell people to stop moving to Southern California. (legally or illegally)
>>no marketing by mail, radio, or tv in the state
I’m curious to see if that portion passes a First Amendment challenge. I bet not.
The Libertarian in me shudders at the thought of government intervention, but all our financial markets (with the exception of illicit drugs) are highly regulated — mostly to ensure a level playing field. The regulations proposed by Minnesota, from what I read, are designed to level the playing field for all borrowers.
Beyond a certain limit, excess borrowing serves nobody. The borrower can’t make the payments, and the lender loses money. In the end, we can argue whether or not markets are self-correcting (they generally are), but the pain of the correction we are about to see was unnecessary and could have been avoided if regulations were in place like Minnesota just affirmed.
In the past, I have strongly disliked laws designed to protect people from themselves. After what I have just observed in the housing market, I am starting to rethink my beliefs.
I really don’t understand what you are so worried about. Everything you have described — your doomsday scenario — is about to play out anyway. Minnesota just made sure it happened sooner.
The tightening of credit will continue over the next 3 to 5 years until your doomsday scenario conditions exist here as well. We don’t have the political will to do it, so the market will very painfully make this happen more slowly; however, everything you described (Full documentation ONLY, NO PREPAYS ALLOWED, NO NEG AM LOANS ALLOWED, ALL ARMS QUALIFIED ON THE ‘worst case scenario’ in YEAR 7?!?) is going to happen here in California.
Perhaps you are so aghast because you never considered what that would mean to California? I have long understood exactly what it would mean, and that is why I am so bearish.
This seems like an epiphany for you. Perhaps you now are fully cognizant of the level of destruction due here in California.
This might be a good time to go back and read: Your Buyer’s Loan Terms. It might have more resonance now.
Those 10-year I/O loans are a stopgap measure on the road to tighter credit. Without this loan program, the entire housing market would seize up even worse than we are seeing now. This kind of financing will disappear as well. Credit will get tighter rather than looser as the bubble deflates.
Thanks for pointing that one out! Look for an update tomorrow.
Whenever I hear the term “level playing field”, it alerts me to a justification for state involvement in a place where the state has no business, IMO. I am of the opinion that it is none of my business whom borrowing serves or doesn’t serve. The housing bubble is not really a housing bubble. It is a credit bubble and a monetary expansion bubble, which is not caused by private borrowers and lenders. It is caused by government interference in the financial marketplace; in this case, by instituting and propagating the private Federal Reserve and the fractional banking system. Without government interference in the financial marketplace, the normal cycle of credit expansion and contraction would little or no effect on the average citizen/consumer. Passing mortgage lending legislation is like giving an aspirin to a patient dying of cancer.
Oh, I fully realize the damage the housing crash is having. However, laws are not the answer. Personal responsibility needs to make a comeback. Anyone who gets destroyed in the next 2 years in the housing market should walk away smarter, and not allow the mistake to occur again.
Doing it with legislation is wrong. You are basically telling people “You’re too stupid to handle your own finances, so the government is going to do it for you.” That’s definitely NOT the America I want to live in. People who make mistakes get burned and learn. Grown men and women shouldn’t need the government to tell them how to manage their money.
Also, this legislation (if it lasts, which it won’t) would force ANYONE with not-perfect credit and who isn’t making monster income into renting. No hope of home ownership. This legislation already exists(albeit to a lesser degree..) in OAKLAND, CA and NEW JERSEY. Nice places to live, right?
Government needs to stay out of this. Let them get what they got coming. The last thing America needs is another law telling you what HOME you can buy.
I am a Libertarian at heart, and your words resonate with me. I am torn over this situation because I do see the tragedy about to unfold, and I believe tighter control on lending could have prevented it. This debate will probably go on for the next several years. It will be very interesting to see what happens in Minnesota in the next year or so.
In 2003, I saw an article in the LA Times which stated that builders were making between 7% and 25% profit on each unit built. Live by the boom, die by the boom, I guess.
The loose credit was like an open bar to a group of alcoholics. It’s
free, in abundance, and open (like credit- easy to get and plenty of it) that the result is people who have little rational control over what they are doing and were only fixed on the outcome that they can now buy stuff only the “rich’ could buy before like luxury cars and big homes. The reason people are rich or poor is because of their own making.
And nobody wants to be perceived as “poor”, especially in the most narcissistic region of our country. The government gave people enough rope and is now doing damage control after too many people hanged themselves with it??