Time to clear shadow inventory grossly understated

Mar 25th, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 06:55 AM

Irvine Renter, we totally need to get a graphic for “hardwood”.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-03-25 07:49 AM

Pinocchio with a tent?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 02:38 PM

O!

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-03-25 04:07 PM

LOL! Can you overlay some pergo wood flooring on the ceiling behind him? Then I can put a title: “Hard Wood Flooring”

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 04:31 PM

I like it I like it

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-03-25 04:43 PM

Maybe now you understand what I meant by “jpg homies”.

You probably look like that guy in the picture:

“Ooooo… look at this new jpg I made for IR!”

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 05:32 PM

Irvine HO, you just don’t appreciate fine hardwood flooring.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-03-25 06:14 PM

Check out the updated post.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 06:21 PM

LOL!  Mikey I think he likes (loves) it

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 07:34 AM

Sold in 2007 for $525K.

According to irvine renter current market value is only 5% off peak for this strategic location - LOL.

But low and behold they are asking 10% over 2007 price.

Let’s see where this closes, the “epic crash” in Irvine continues.  It may sell for 5% off peak or the same, maybe 10% more… Report on the devastation quickly.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 07:41 AM

You may want to update and be more precise with your price per square foot numbers.

Redfin shows an up tick to $355 per sq ft for 92602.  For recent comps for this gem it’s showing $361.

The epic Irvine crash continues.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-03-25 09:46 AM

Statics can be used many different ways.

There’s not enough transactions in 92602, but I thought I’d post some numbers to show what’s really going on in that zip code.  Per Redfin, 15 SFH’s sold in Feb.  Per Redfin SFH medium price is down in this zip code -21.9% vs prior year, and SQFT off -8%.

Redfin also shows that SF home sales in Irvine @ 322 a sqft.  Also, they show as of Feb 2011, sales off -6.8% vs previous month (I thought sales were suppose to increase after the new year), and off -10.6% vs previous year.  Medium price off -3.3% from previous month, and off -7.7% from previous year.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 09:59 AM

Let’s wait and see what this sells for, shall we?

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-03-25 10:13 AM

It may sell for more than 2008 price.  There was a lot of panic at that time, and equity sellers were just wanting to get out.  However, this is an awful location for this home ... just incredibly awful.

I think I know what’s going on.  We’ve started the second part of the decline, and unless the govt/fed can up the ante with more debt/welfare, prices will continue to drop in Orange County, Irvine and 92602.

Let’s see were comps are at the end of the year, shall we?

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 10:17 AM

“It may sell for more than 2008 price”

Ahhh progress and acceptance, I love it.  So who exactly is presenting the wrong data now LOL.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-03-25 10:42 AM

I’m not accepting anything.  I don’t have to be right.  The numbers speak:

SFH in 92602 fer Redfin:

3/23/2009 = 332 SQFT
3/21/2011 = 327 SQFT

So prices are roughly the same ... this after the govt/fed threw trillions at this mess.  Zero percent interest rates.  The lowest mortgage rates in history.  2 trillion in quantitative easing.  Special tax deductions.  Political heat on the banks/lenders.  Accounting rules manipulated for the banks.  All of it.


The collapse was interrupted by the greatest expansion of debt in recorded history.  The real question is, how much longer can this continue?  I think it’s ending.

As I said before, let’s see were comps are at the end of the year ... the end of next year too, shall we?  I don’t believe the govt/fed can continue this.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 10:50 AM

No way, let me get this straight: you are using list prices for 2011.  Give me a second to laugh.

Sold is $355 per sq ft.  What’s more important, sold or list or do you conveniently choose which one you want to use LOL.  If this was priced at $540k it would likely already be pending, $361 show for the relevant area.  Facts are facts.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-03-25 11:14 AM

You’re right ... I was using condo’s too in my field.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 11:27 AM

Given the list price this will probably take forever to sell.  It may take a year before we know what it closes for and maybe there will be a trustee fip transaction in between unless there was a 20% down payment or more.  End of 2007 might have required 20% down.  I’d guess it bottoms around $520-525, though the $489 or $470 estimates are not unreasonable.  $350 is unreasonable but crazier things have happened.

Astute Observation by so_scared
2011-03-25 01:48 PM

so one would argue that there has been huge intervention in the market Lee.

But that was done nationally, not only for Irvine. So given that, when the other truly bubbly areas fell by 40% or 50% (ala vegas and Miami), Irvine has held up relatively better.

That isn’t to say that prices may not go down some more but what made Irvine so special that the interventions specifically affected it differently from the other markets.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 03:27 PM

What?

You mean in Las Vegas there aren’t housing selling in 2011 for greater than their 2007 sales price?  Say it ain’t so.  Las Vegas must be different.

Astute Observation by flyovercountry
2011-03-27 07:19 PM

Strawman argument. 

Even IR the Las Vegas flipping tycoon frankly admits that appreciation is not what will drive sales in LV, and in one of his LV posts he talks about deteriorating prices hurting profits on a couple of his properties with squatters.

So don’t try and argue against a position that no one here is taking.

Astute Observation by Mattman
2011-03-25 07:42 AM

This “strategic location” makes me think of other threads we’ve had about the fun health implications of living next to a major road like Jamboree: http://goo.gl/eEIZp

Astute Observation by octal77
2011-03-25 08:14 AM

Here is a question that has perplexed me:

I fully understand why large banks would want to
throttle the shadow inventory sales rate to
keep prices artifically high. (as explained
above)

From what I can tell, the banks are emulating
the Debeers diamond business model. IE. keep
the huge oversupply of diamonds in the vault
and meter them out to create an illusion
of scarcity and force prices high.

What I don’t understand is why small/medium
size banks with limited R/E exposure would
not dump their entire portfolios on the market
to recover as much cash as *quickly* as possible?

In others words, why don’t the small banks
jump off the cliff first and thus maximizing
their total possible return?
 
Are all the banks linked together as a cartel?

Astute Observation by Walter
2011-03-25 09:05 AM

If they are locked together in a cartel or not is as much conspiracy theory and anything else (IMHO).

What I do believe is going on is that the banks do not have the reserves to dump all these properties at the same time. They need the capital coming in from the ZIRP and other bailouts to feed the loses taken as they write off the bad loans.

Also, they only want to scale up the distressed processing operations so much. They are basically feeding a department to lose money. They want to keep that department just big enough to push through the amount of write downs they can afford.

Unless you are in New York. In that case let the guy sitting at the desk next to you live rent and mortgage free. Assholes.

Astute Observation by awgee
2011-03-25 02:31 PM

The small banks, if they kept the loans in house, do not have the same percentage of bad residential loans.  And they do market their REO quickly.

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-03-25 08:28 AM

School Information

  * Elementary School: Myford
  * Middle School: Pioneer
  * High School: Beckman
  * School District: Irvine Unified


Beckman is Irvine Unified?

Yeah, tell that to the unsuspecting FCBs.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-03-25 09:01 AM

The FCBs know that West Irvine is Tustin Unified.

And even though, those schools in that area of Tustin Ranch are just as good (if not better) than Irvine Unified.

But the perception of “Tustin” does have some sway on price, West Irvine is typically lower than other areas of Irvine in IUSD proper.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-03-25 10:07 AM

Exactly,
It’s all good as long as the FCB punchbowl remains full.

Astute Observation by Also renting in Irvine
2011-03-25 08:36 AM

Maybe someone has suggested this before, but periodically, you should have a “Price is Right” contest on polling for the actual sales price on a recently listed WTF price such as this

Closest to, without going over gets some kudos from you, and on their death bed, they will maintain total consciousness, which is nice….

My bid is 489,900 with a closing date of 8/1/2011

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-03-25 08:46 AM

I would guess $525K with a $417K loan, though I could see $540-550K.  Hard to know whether they need to sell.

Astute Observation by gmoney
2011-03-25 09:14 AM

REO, 350k on May 16th, 2013

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-03-25 08:26 PM

I’m surprised PR hasn’t rebutted you with his awesome Irvine insight yet.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-03-25 12:57 PM

Chances of this going sub $500k is slim.

I’m with PR and an over/under of $525k due to bad location.

Having lived near a major street before, I would not buy this place for $400k.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 02:46 PM

Having lived near a major street before, I would not buy this place for $400k.

You wouldn’t do it for the sake of the children getting to go to a fine Irvine school?

Astute Observation by jb
2011-03-25 10:48 AM

Why does the Nar get quoted anymore? Aren’t their numbers suspect by definition?

A few years ago, there was a front page article in the OC Register that had a cool map. It detailed the distressed properties/foreclosure problem by zip code in Orange County. For example, if a zip code had more than 6 months of inventory, it got shaded red. Buried in the article, the writer talked about how he came up with the months of inventory….# of foreclosures + distressed properties divided by the sales per month. I thought, “WTF”.  I wrote to the guy and asked what the rates would be if new inventory and existing (non-distressed) properties were factored in.  And then I began my plans to sell our house.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-03-25 02:53 PM

Why does the Nar get quoted anymore? Aren’t their numbers suspect by definition?

Of course they are suspect, but who else are the reporters going to ask?

Astute Observation by jb
2011-03-25 11:07 AM

I’ll say short sale of $470K in November of 2011.

Astute Observation by BD
2011-03-25 08:25 PM

boy, boy, boy, prices in a double dip with the fed buying bonds and interest rates at serious artificial lows….  We have a long hard slow grind ahead of us for a decade or more.  Prices slowly deflating as rates rise at best.  The almighty help us if we get anything other than a slow rise in inflation and rates.  Imagine buying any of this with 9% money….  pobre si!

B

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-03-25 08:28 PM

We’ll see how things pan out when QE2 ends.

But then there’ll probably be QE3, 4, ..... (and to infinity).

Can’t beat a printing machine, ya know?

Astute Observation by BD
2011-03-25 08:59 PM

If we have a Q3 and more… the dollar is even more doomed.  Rates will rise.  They are higher now than they were 6 months ago and the fed is buying… If this keeps up the Fed will be the only one buying…

B

Astute Observation by BD
2011-03-25 08:46 PM

Wow… what would happen if rates just went back 7.25% - what I paid in 1999 with perfect credit and 20% down??  Most don’t really realize that rates falling for 20 to 30 years - depending on your definition - also, enabled this ginormous bubble.  Now we will likely see a reversal to mean.  Not all at once but, slowly.  Rates will just rise slowly (if we are lucky) for as long as you can see….  I’m guess a 3-4 point rise in long term rates over the next 10-12 years. 

Why do you think gold is going through the roof??  Just like the 70s…stagflation.  Rising rates, rising commodities, rising inflation.  And, declining values for anything and everything that requires borrowed money. 

Yikes… I’m not happy about it.  I own property but, also rent a place.  Just a very tough decade or two in front of us….

BD

Astute Observation by winstongator
2011-03-26 03:38 AM

Interest rates will not go to 7% or 9% by magic or because it is the ‘mean’.  10-year rates were very low for much of the 50’s, so we can have today’s low rates for a while.  Rates were higher in 1999 even in the face of an improving deficit situation - why?  Maybe it is because investment dollars were gushing into stocks?  Which also coincided with a very healthy job market?

Rates will rise with two factors: rising inflation and an economy moving closer to full capacity.  What could produce higher rates is the fed saying its inflation target is now 4% instead of 2% (it gives more flexibility in the zero-bound situation we are currently in).  We had rough 4% inflation in the 90’s and that was a decent decade economically (really, compare it to the 00’s), so 4% inflation would not hurt.  If the fed did this, you’d have rates spike 2% higher…but you’d have 2% more inflation, keeping real rates nearly constant.  Higher rates, with higher inflation are easier to handle than lower rates with zero or negative inflation.

Commenting is not available in this channel entry.

<< Back to main