Irvine Housing Blog

Wait a minute, Realtors have a “Code of Ethics”?  After reading that I had to wipe coffee spray off my monitor.  That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in weeks.

Larry - just wanted to show my support for you from down here in San Diego.  I share your disdain & distrust for many realtors, and have multiple anecdotal examples from which my opinions arose. Keep up the good fight.

Tom R.
San Diego

I’ve seen realtors listing flipped homes with freshly laid Pergranitsteel® as “Standard Sale!” or “Equity Seller” in the MLS. To suggest these realtors are being honest with the buying public with mislabled listings like these is a lie unto itself.

My. 02c

Soylent Green Is People

P.S. - As an OCAR member I plan to let them know directly about how displeased many of us are to see our dues being wasted so recklessly.

If realtors can’t stand the heat, they need to get out of the Gourmet Kitchen with Stunning Peek-a-boo Views.

My. 02c

Soylent Green Is People.

Are you pulling our leg?  Is this a belated April Fool’s post?  This is so absurd it would make Samuel Beckett blush.

I hope you come out with guns blazing suing OCAR for slander and defamation of character, loss of spousal affection and marital relations etc.  You probably won’t win since calling someone a liar is an ad hominem attack that is considered free speech (chime in here Laura L if I’m wrong) but it would make for great theater to watch these idjits go into full retreat mode.  Oh the fun we’d have!  Alas, the lawyer fees probably make this a virtual impossibility.  Maybe if we all chip in…...

Hang in there Larry. The truth is on your side.

OCAR has been very evil, bad, and naughty for shining their “buy now” beacon and they need to be spanked!

Fuc* You Orange County Association of “R"ealtors!

My husband and I support you.  I can’t tell you the number of calls we received from realtors when we listed our house FSBO in 2007.  They all told us it would never sell without their “marketing” efforts… Well, it did and for a very good price.  Once we were in escrow in early 2008, the very same realtors called to tell us that “it was a great time for us to buy another house.”. We rented.  Each year, the realtors would follow up and see if we were ready to buy, because after all “it was a great time to buy.”. They never had a good answer when we asked isn’t that what you said last year.  We hope to buy next year and we would be using at Redfin agent if it wasn’t for Shevy.  BTW, the only reason we were smart enough to sell when we did was thanks to this blog.  Our former house has gone down over 25% since we sold.  Thanks, IHB.

Dunning Kruger Effect

It’s when incompetent idiots think they are superior because they are too ignorant to see own their deficiencies.

Another consequence is they are unable to judge someone has superior skill.

I’ve been reading posts by so many idiot realtors on so many forums that I’ve determined the realtors association is a breeding ground for Dunning-Kruger devotees. Something about the NAr/CAr/OCAr attract those afflicted by this disease thinking they are right and superior when in fact they are the exact opposite.

At times you’ve give way over the top speculating on personal situations of specific MLS listings.  That wasn’t illegal but probably not smart from a legal point of view.  Better to stay on the straight and narrow and avoid legal expenses.

It doesn’t seem like they can do anything to you unless they take it outside of kangaroo court.  They will take out shevy though, set an example, take out the Realtor side of the business and maybe cost you some additional money down the road.

This post probably wasn’t very smart to help your cause, but good for you for not giving a shit.  I respect that you don’t care this post may cost you more money than it’s worth.  Since it’s worth nothing, it doesn’t take much.  Discussing realtors importance in anything seems like a waste of time in general.

irvinerenter, we’re on your side. it’s clear who’s righteous(you) and who’s the lying scum(ocar).

IR, I regard you as a purveyor of truth, and a dispeller of lies.  I’m glad the OCAR action is not smothering your desire to write and spread a unique perspective that traditional realtors would never share.

Used House Salesmen.  Your average one cannot spell (check a listing sometimes), does not have a college degree, and basically does not have or does not want to use skills that are useful in structured office / corporate environments. 

What was their barrier to entry / hurdle to be able to represent someone with the most important financial decision many will ever make? 3 weeks of classes a 6th grader could pass.  They are being exposed for what many of them are - shysters!  They deserve what is coming to them - the internet providing the information to make them useless.  Remember Fotomat!

“There are three kinds of liars:
Liars, damned liars, and Realtors (TM).”

- GetStucco (http://www.thehousingbubbleblog.com)

Too funny.

Sorry you’re having to deal with this Larry but the 6 percenters never fail to amuse.

Have you contacted the ACLU?  I hope you get the national publicity that you deserve out of this.

Larry - you are my HERO!  I wish I could present a blog similar to yours for San Diego.  I have so much information on properties here all in distressed and HELOC’d just as the properties you blog about.  I know that doing the research for your blog takes time.  Please keep up the great work.  You have a lot of regular followers.  We love your blog and appreciate your straight honesty and information.  You should be a role model for realtors.  I have so much admiration for you and your site.  Don’t let them intimidate you.  Bring it on OCAR!  Viva Free Speech!

Christmas 1999:
Technology stocks are a safe, secure way to build long-term wealth.  The NASDAQ over the past 10 years has delivered an average annual return of 25%.  Technology is projected to become a bigger and bigger part of people’s everyday lives, and we expect continued returns over the next decade.

Now how would a stock analyst or fund manager be dealt with after writing that statement?  The worst part is, they couldn’t tell you to borrow 5X your annual salary to buy tech stocks with non of your own cash in the transaction.  They always put a ‘past performance does not guarantee future returns’ caveat on every brochure.

IR, is the republication of MLS photographs for ‘personal’ gain against their rules?

If it was my database, I would impose such a rule.  Obviously, trulia, zillow, etc. do it, but they have may be implicitly ignored because they promote sales.  Does the MLS have a catch all for use of it’s information and pictures when they need to feel powerful?

Serial killers, pedophiles, arsonist, zyklon B chemist, neo nazis, and some realtors are all around the same level of trustworthiness.

The comments on the OC Register website are about 98% on your side. OCAR screwed themselves with this asinine move

“He has a broker’s license, he says, but he doesn’t run a brokerage or sell real estate, and he is not a Realtor or a member of OCAR.”

I like how the article uses the “he says” qualifier, as if its hard to prove, one way or the other.

How are you “lying about competitors” if you dont run a brokerage or sell realestate?  Who are your competitors?

How can group, which you dont belong to, summon you?  No list of specifics, Sounds like to COI at the NCAA.  Its not like they can compel you go right? Although I would for $*&$ and giggles… 

Just for fun, when was OC groups last hearing?  who did they sanction?  what was the penalty?  What penalty could they legally enforce?

In the article it says two other are also “charged” I could guess the two others, but do you care to share?  Will they be going to hearing?  Are they compelled to due to their association to the group? Will your absents be held against the other two?

Maybe there is another conspiracy…

Maybe someone on the inside wants to upset the staus quo of the OCAR and filed this complaint so they would run with it, embaress themselves and a shakeup would ensue…

They are threatened by and envious of your success. They miss the easy money and ‘prestige’ they enjoyed years ago. Their coping mechanism is to lash out at anyone who can see through their facade. They have no power over you.

Member: Team IR

I don’t see the “damage” here.  Where is the injured party?  Discussing housing, price, affordability, banking, loan practices is not illegal.

Analysis here on this blog was obtained by public records.  From my understand analysis is not illegal.

If OCAR enacts fines and punishment on Irvine Housing Blog, then I hope they get sued on the free of speech suit.  Because are they now going quiet on negative discussion on housing?  Give me a break on go after the people the comment fraud. 

Good for you IR, back when I started reading the blog back in fall of 2006, I never would’ve thought to be learning so much about real estate. I’ve gone from “I want that house!” to “Wait, this house is overpriced compared to rental parity, and the market is due to capitulate.” Keep up the good work, and I’ll keep up my due diligence.

Kitty

astonishing - make sure you post if there is anything us readers that aren’t in the business can do.

Would it be a good idea to have a group of people show up outside the hearing? Let me know.

I used to follow a blog in Miami that gave the real numbers of unsold condos in each building. The builders and association started coming after him and now he just shows pretty pictures of the city.

If you have a blog like the IHB and you’re not pissing off someone then you are doing something wrong and/or don’t have the courage of your convictions.

As long as I’ve been reading this blog, IR has been consistently honest and open, often to his own detriment - personally and professionally. He seeks out the truth and fights for it.

I have a ton of respect for you, IR.

IR,

Kudos for having the courage to stand up and speak out against corrupt realtors and exposing their propaganda.
The public is ready to hear the truth.
By bringing it out in the open you broke their conditioning.
Now they’re trying to keep you quiet by clamping down.
Keep fighting!

A friend of mine placed a sound activated voice recorder in his kitchen while he was in the process of selling his home. The conversations he recorded between his “agent” and prospective buyers and other agents were horrifying. Basically the Realtor sold him down the river by trying to explain to every prospective buyer how to they could work together to bring down the price. Of course, this is no surprise, but certainly provides a confirming data point that realtors are not fiduciaries and the application of the term agent is a misnomer in that they are only acting their own best interest.

All of this begs the question.

What is the value of a Realtor?

For the life of me I can’t figure it out.

I agree the action is frivolous (it’s a grievance, not sure if that’s lawsuit) but at the same time, I do think IR is over-the-top at times (as he admits himself).

The use of generalizations is tough because it paints the entirety (or even the majority) of the group a certain way when it may not even be that high a percentage.

Just like this blog makes it seem like Irvine is the “epicenter” of HELOC abuse, I am sure there are many more equity owners here than there are ATM owners.

And ironically, as much as IR can say R/realtors misrepresent themselves, who is to say that’s not their actual belief? When IR went all bullish on Vegas, many of us decried his actions. How much has Vegas dropped since his initial recommendation to buy there because owning is below rental parity? 10%? 20%? Does anyone who bought in Vegas back then and seen their down payments disappear have a right to call out IR now based on his recommendations?

Or when IR predicted Irvine was going to drop 40%+ by now… can someone accuse him of “lying”?

To be clear, OCAR doesn’t really have a good case, but I don’t think IR it totally innocent either. He does exaggerate the data a bit but as this is a blog, that’s his right to do so. I’m just more concerned over the allegations of misuse of MLS information. Without knowing the details, that would be something they could be justified in.

IR, keep up the good fight.  You are truly one of the last bastions of truth.  Unlike the filty, dirty, corrupt white collar organized crime real estate industrial complex.  Here is what I posted on the OC Register, I would love to hear a response to this by the realtor talking heads:

There is no way on this earth that realtors are getting a free pass after being complicit in the largest fraud, theft, scam that almost brought down the world economy. I know we’ll hear the old story “realtors don’t give out loans, so you can’t blame them.” Realtors were supposed to have a fiduciary responisbility to their clients, looking out after their clients best interest. However, when an easy money commision can be made that’s when that responsibility went out the window. It seemed like a great idea at the time to put a clown who made 50K/year into that 500K house with zero down…the bigger the transaction, the bigger the commision.

Yes, realtors you are included in the blame. Just like Wall St., the banks, Fannie, Freddie, the Federal Reserve, Congress, NAR, CAR, etc. I hope Larry Roberts smacks these clowns down. Everyone of these jokers has had a part in distoring the real estate market for short term profit while a generation got financially wiped out or put off homeownership, starting a family simply because it wasn’t economically feasible. Eat that!

The OCAR is utter BS and they know it, they just don’t like being called out on it. 

They are sooo many Unreal-tors that spin so much BS that these allegations are ridiculous.  The statements that have been said to me during open houses as fact rather than opinion is astonishing.

Statements like this home is priced under market value (saying this asset is being sold for less than it’s worth) when it’s priced higher than any comp is lying.  Under market-value gives the impression of a good investment or ability to make a profit (buy low, sell high)

Saying a kitchen has top-of-the line “best” appliances, when I see a mix of GE, LG, and Kitchen-Aid appliances when none of those appliances are even the top of of the line in GE, LG or Kitchen-Aid’s actual product line, is lying.

Saying a lot is 6000sq feet when the county assessor says is 5321 is lying.  Saying the house is 3400 sq feet, when the county records and builder says it’s 3144 is lying.  Not doing your due-diligence as a Realtor and checking the facts on your listings is negligence in my opinion.

Sorry for the rant, nobody likes being lied to and the straight faces that they give while spewing this information means they’ve done it over and over, time after time..

IR: “OCAR should leave me alone”

HELL NO!!! They should keep it coming! I wanna see you on 60 Minutes! :-D

Seriously, how stupid could these guys be? Well, obviously, you have nothing to fear from these clowns. The only one that I worry about in the least in this situation is Shevy. Will he be obligated to appear before their kangaroo court? If I were him, and they tried to force me to appear, I’d promptly cancel my membership, tell them where to stuff it, and go on to serve as a shining example of how one can be a successful and profitable real estate agent without being a dues-paying [r]ealtor. Bring on the membership decline! It’ll be like rats fleeing a sinking ship! After all, why pay the dues if the organization’s only function is to prosecute honesty.

Well done, IR!!! Truly well done!!!

-Darth

Larry, Pardon my ignorance, but how can some Realtor organization have any jurisdiction, for lack of a better word, over an indie broker like yourself with their “disciplinary committee”?

Looks like you might become a non-person and get airbrushed out of photos like Stalin did.

BTW, this is definitely going to turn out to be a “Streisand Effect” for these dipshits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Look forward to seeing you on 60 Minutes!

BTW, opinion is protected speech against defamation claims, as I’m sure your attorneys have pointed out.

IR. First of all, I want to thank you for the Blog which has been a great resource for People like me who are too busy to collect all the valuable TRUTHFULL Data you provide here…you have save many potential Buyers thousands of Dollars and years of misery while OCAR have been doing the complete OPPOSITE.

Secondly, we LOVE our Realtor!! OCAR are only trying to give the good ones a bad name by firing the first shot in a war they will never win..

Thirdly, and most importantly, dont’t let OCAR (Orange County Ass Reamers) get you down, you have Thousands of greatful Readers, we’re behind you, they are outnumbered by thousands.

Now sit back and enjoy IHB Traffic Skyrocket!!

PS: Do OCAR have a Blog? If not, they should create one. *waiting*

TalkIrvine is a solid website. There are a lot of cheerleaders there, but there are also a few people who understand that Irvine Real Estate isn’t as strong as is represented by the typical Irvine Realtor.

$400k is being generous by about $100k.

OCAR Blog, not much on it though..

http://blog.ocar.org/

I’m a little confused how it can be an anonymous complaint?  I took a quick look at the grievance procedure on the OCAR web-site and it looks like the grievant has to identify themselves and the specific instance(s) that brought about the grievance?  I’m not expert in this type of proceeding, but the grievance seems to fail on this ground alone if the article is correct. If it wasn’t an anonymous grievance, then the person behind the complaint should be publicly named.

My general take is that this seems to be a bad PR move (no pun intended) on the part of OCAR.  I Wouldn’t be surprised if this didn’t drive more people to this web-site (see Streisand effect mentioned above).

Larry, Best of luck to you. I work in sales, but have always been truthful with clients. I like to think we are in partnership, so we both benefit. I see most realtors just wanting to sell, without concern of what it might mean to the customer down the road. Just my opinion. Cheers!

I wonder if PR is really the alter ego of IR?

Does anyone have tinfoil for me to make a hat out of?

Sales must really be hurting for OC realtors if now is the time they decided to take secret action against you.

Rock on, Larry!! The more they make a fuss about you, the more damaging the publicity becomes for them.  Right now, people are pissed at banks and realtors. 

I really hope there comes a time where your services can be provided to us here in San Diego.

Good Luck!

I’ve purchased and sold 4 properties and had two rentals over the past 18 years….so around 15 transactions, plus a few that didn’t go through. Out of that 15, only 1 realtor (the last one) impressed me with his honesty. The rest should be ashamed of themselves for one thing or another. A few lies have been infuriating. Get ‘em, tiger. Represent.

Please, please don’t allow these hollow threats affect your blog which is cherished among the community of renters that have no other voice.  Your blog provides my wife and I with the only reciprocity available in a world that has taken our tax dollars and bailed out a disturbing majority of those greedy HELOC abusers in the past 5 years.  Your blog is our only voice.  Please don’t let it be silenced by this disturbing, baseless, ill-founded attempt to shut you up.  Fight on, and start a legal fund if it comes to that.

You can’t be silenced IrvineRenter! Your readers support you.

As you are fond of music video’s here is a link.  Let’ us remember a certain someone who went from obsurity to mainstream hit after a large organization took her on and tried to ban everyone from listening to her offiensive music ...

Madonna - Like A Prayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA983t3Rdzs

IR,
  I’ve been a daily reader here for a very long time and I’ve never seen you say anything dishonest or attack anyone personally. While I don’t always agree with everything I’ve read here that’s okay as people can honestly disagree on matters of opinion. (i.e., whether or not MERS & the robosigners have broken with chain of title) And some of your posts have been quite funny, humor much appreciated in these dark times. If the OCAR is after you then it means you’re doing something very right. Good on! At the least you might gain some new readers and my personal hope is that those Realtor(tm) types get too embarrassed by your graphics to keep using the words “stunning”, “cozy”, “gourmet kitchen”, “tot lot” or type in “all caps” in their listings.

Keep fighting the good fight.  You have a LOT of support out there.  Realtors are overpaid waitresses.  And full of shit.  Or too stupid to know the difference.

Are Deeds and Deeds of Trust security instruments?  Put a couple together and you’re regulated by the SEC (not that they showed many teeth during the bubble).  I wonder if anyone in the SEC would have any interest in regulating realtors like securities dealers.

The rates of appreciation of the value changing asset during the bubble was incredible.  Take a $500k home, $250k replacement value of structure, so $250k for the land.  Then it appreciates to $1M.  Replacement value of the structure didn’t really change in 2 years.  So the land went from $250k to $750k.  Is that rate of appreciation really sustainable?  Do people pay any attention to the breakdown in value between the land and the structure?

OMG, I cracked up when I read the headline! 

Realtors complaining about someone lying - the very definition of hypocrisy.  Or chuztpah - what’s that definition?  A man who murders his parents pleading for mercy from the court because he is an orphan.  Sounds like a Realtor!

Just by the way they always say, “It’s a perfect time to buy!” they demonstrate themselves to be liars!

Well, it’s laughable but not so funny if you have to deal with it.  Larry, we’re behind you 100% percent and if there is something we can do to help, you have to let us know.

I’ve been a long time lurker here and very thankful for all the advice and facts IR has posted.  IR, you have my full support!

Just adding my modest voice of support as a long time lurker and rare poster.

I don’t always 100% agree with irvine renter, but, when he does take a side different than my own I take care to follow his facts and logic - I may not always be persuaded but I always learn something.

I would take this as a panic action by OCAR.  IR you are on the right side of this.

The silver lining, if there is one, is that it means Larry has gotten his word out.

That he has educated an entire group of readers, and it has had such an impact that OCAr is filing a baseless law suit to shut him down.

Thanks Larry.

IR,

Instead of Queen you should have gone with Henry Rollins - Liar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg

what is that like 8 things u wrote (including this one) about how bad realtors are

u ever think maybe they’re just not worth that much press

Can we see the complaint?

IR:
As a lurker to the IHB I am impressed by your honesty and insightful analysis.  There is far too little of it in the blogosphere.  Kudos for not backing down.

You made it on Thebigpicture blog!!
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/orange-county-realtors-vs-irvinehousingblog-com/

129 Astute Observations, I wonder if that is a record.
If it is, thanks OCAr.

Oh, I am *so* glad realtors are all about honesty!

Now can we have transparency in property transactions with all bidders, buyers, and agents publicly revealed on the MLS listing!

....along with each and every offer and counter-offer openly listed too.

No More phantom Bidders/Buyers/Investors!!!

Transparent real estate! WooHoo!

~Misstrial

Have had my RE license since 96’ and have known many, many Realtors.  As a full time RE investor I have seen a lot thru the years.  But I have never seen a more honest (or capable) Realtor than Shevy Akason.  He has my full support vs OCAR though he does not need it.  OCAR will make him and IHB famous. Look even now we are going viral….

I was friends with a person who then became a realtor.  She actually dropped me, not the other way around; I think she realized that her new profession gagged me, although I was careful not to say so.  For a couple of years -  during the bubble -  she occasionally contacted me, to tell me how many people she had “helped” by managing to get them into houses that they otherwise would not have been able to afford.  She really believed that she was helping people -  it was incredible.  And she went to Reed; she wasn’t actually stupid, at least on an academic level.  Which made her capacity for destruction that much greater.

I wonder how many lives she totally f*cked up, by being happy to spew the NAR line.  Quite a few, I’d bet.  Is she ashamed to have been so gullible, and to have led so many people into an economic abyss?  I wonder.

IR, I’ve appreciated your honest and rational posts, and I thank you for fighting the good fight.

IR

Frequent reader of your blog.  I agree with many, that a vast majority of your perspectives are backed with facts versus conjecture. 

Keep up the great work, you have my support

Is now a good time to counter-attack?

Wouldn’t it be great to compare the services provided by Realtors in 1990, 2000, and today to help show how riduculous the 6% commission to realtors is in today’s world.

When I sold my condo in Chicago in early 2007 (which is now worth 40% less than what I sold it for)realtors were only getting 5% (2.5% for listing, 2.5% for buyer’s agent) because the market in Chicago had adjusted

When I moved to Texas, I was surprised to see 6% was still present

When I relocated here in ‘09, my relocation company put a 4% buyer’s commission on our home to generate more interest (because they knew the realtors would talk up our property to break any ties b/c it meant an extra 3-6k in their pocket).  Sure enough, within a week, we had a bidding war in one of the worst periods of the RE downturn….

How many of you out there have experienced a situation that I encountered last August

Was in the car with the realtor.  They got a call related to a problem on a house nearing final walkthru (in this case a water related problem)

With me three feet away, they said “Just find a way to cover it up and fix it so it does not get noticed in final walkthru.  In a week, this won’t be our problem”

In case you are wondering, that was the last day I worked with that agent…..

A man is know by who his enemies are.

Some RE agents I have used were very good and honest.  Some not so honest.  Since most technically work for the seller, buyer be warned.  On honest one showing house to me even told me that he techically works for the seller so he can’t say if the house iw overpriced—but he could state that I has been on the market for a year without a bid.

Family has hired a realtor to find a house.  Became close friends and then had her find another house a decade later and to sell the old house.

Any Realtor or Organization that goes after Larry and the IHB will NEVER get any business from me or my family - and I will tell everyone that I know to avoid them as well.

From my experience, I have learned that the MLS is set up to attempt by Realtors to control the market.  Both listing/selling and buying.  I have also learned that “insider” trading is NOT illegal if you are a Realtor.  In many cases, any property you see on listed on an MLS listing service in FACT MUST BE OVERPRICED.  If it were a “good deal”  Brokers and agents ALWAYS get first dibs at the “deals”.  What we see that is left is the JUNK that Realtors do not want to buy for their own investments.  I have even heard them,..in violation of their own ethics rules, call listed houses “GARBAGE” or “JUNK”.  This can be for ANY reason…since they OWN or control the local market.

My BS detector is buzzing off most times I see them.  Why see them?  Because they are the ONLY effective portal or access to the MLS REAL (not public) information that only REALTORS receive.

I have been investigating criminals for years..and I see and hear many RED FLAGS ...once they start talking.

OCAr is adding to the snowball of disdain that is growing against lying realtards.  OCAr, CAr & NAr represent everything wrong w this country and they know that cracks have been forming for years in their nazi monopolistic foundation.  May they close down just like many of their customers, who are now facing foreclosure due to pressure tactics by these soon-obselete cheerleaders.

Larry, you are the man.  Long time reader of your blog.  I can never figure out how you can pack SO MUCH meticulous and substantial analysis into your posts day in and day out.  Where do you find the time?!  The reality is you won’t see a dime from many of us, yet we have benefited greatly (financially and otherwise) from your advice.  If we all weren’t such selfish OC’ers, I’d say we should ea give $500 toward your legal fees.  How great would it be to see the OCAr, CAr and NAr put in their place!

Larry, I’ve been reading the IHB website for the last few years now. I completely agree with you on your views and I also appreciate you putting in the evidence to support your claims. It just takes common sense to analyze the situation to know that homes are ridiculously over priced in general still relative the the average income earned. These GREEDY, SELF SERVING, SELFISH UNETHICAL LYING realtors made a killing with the real estate bubble. And now, with housing economy being in a complete mess, they get so butt hurt because their industry is suffering and someone has the guts to expose their untruthfulness. I have been saving for the last few years and refuse to even think of buying a home until it is sensible to do so. Which means a probable drop of another additional 20% of the current market prices and when the banks finally unveil most of the shadow inventory that they’ve been trying to hide.  So here’s a one finger solute to those lying opportunist realtors. You deserve to suffer for your greed.

Hope it ends quickly and without drama Larry - Realtors have made misleading statements to me on numerous occasions, it’s sickening, and people like you out there telling the truth are of course going to be a target for this coalition of the dishonest who have fleeced the entire country for their 6% and took the entire economy down in the process. 

If there were any justice in the world anymore, people would show up at your so-called “hearing” with pitchforks…

**OCAR’s Rena Budesky, who signed the grievance, declined to answer questions…

**OCAR president Jean Tietgen did not respond to a reporter’s call…

Of course, Mall Cops!!

Keep up the TRUTH Larry!!

I’ve been dealing with Real Estate Agents for nearly 40 years, having bought my first house in 1971, and a total of three in my life. I have lived in my current house for 23+ years. Over the years, I have been fairly lucky (certainly not skilled), and in general I believe that owning houses has been better for me than renting. 

But:

I have never understood why anyone would give any more creedence to a Real Estate Agent’s advice than they would that of a used car salesman.

Nothing against either group, but anyone with reasonable intelligence should realize that the job description for both and thier compensation structure requires them to “push the tin”. 

So, while I think that Real Estate Agents (and most other sales “professions”) have some culpability for stretching the truth and making unfounded representations, it is ultimately the buyer of the property that did not do adequate due diligence in what is likely the single largest financial transacton of his life.

Hopefully the world will learn a lession from all of this, but I doubt it will happen.

Jim C., I think the difference is that a used car salesman is obviously not representing you, they are clearly representing the dealership.  A closer analogy would be a car broker, whose job it is to represent the buyer of the car to get the best deal possible and to eliminate all the hassle normally associated with buying a car.  In that analogy, the car broker is what they appear to be, and the realtor is not.  Realtors typically “represent” the buyer or the seller.  The perception by many is that because of that, their agent is looking out for them and will get them the best possible price/deal.  This perception is encouraged by the Realtor establishment, and became laughable in the now infamous “Suzanne researched this!” commercial. 

The reality, of course, is very different.  For the most part, the seller’s agent wants to get the deal done so they earn their commission regardless of how much the home sells for.  The buyer’s agent wants the same, but they want the buyer to bid as much as possible to make sure the sellers accept the offer so they can earn the commission.  The only person they are motivated to truly “represent” is themselves and their commissions.  It’s a very flawed system which the IHB has helped to expose. 

But I do agree…going in with eyes wide open to the reality of all this is key for any buyer or seller.

Hold it Planet~you are obviously not a Realtor or member of any MLS or you would know that any information you term “personal” that has been reported on this forum, is, in fact, “public information”, available at the County Recorder’s Office or through title companies.  The MLS does not ask for and does not include mortgage histories, nor original sales prices.  Nor does the MLS fact check any information that is input,,,,that is done soley by the Listing Agent, often with a lot of innacurate information.  MLS does not have any employee/employor relationship that allows them to evaluate agents performance or presentation.  In addition the MLS does supply active listing information to other sources, such as Realtor.com which is a free on-line service anyone may access.  MLS is, and has been sued in the past, a monopoly designed to create a massive apparatus for collecting dues, and more recently manditory contributions to PAC groups such as NAR and CAR.  Dues to those organizations used to be ‘voluntary’, they are now manditory.  MLS acts very like a “Union shop”, except that they don’t negotiate compensation, provide health benefits, or retirement provisions.  You MUST pay to play.  So get your “facts” straight.

Do Real Estate Brokers Lie?

Is it fair to say that real estate brokers lie? That allegation has become the center of a massive dispute between a California real estate broker and the Orange County Association of Realtors.

Larry Roberts is a California real estate broker who operates the IrvineHousingBlog.com. As with a huge number of other real estate brokers, he opines about various issues related to local real estate and other matters.

And so it happened that in March Roberts published a blog item which said in part that real estate brokers “are liars. We all know that, yet we tolerate and even encourage the behavior. Why would anyone want to hear bullshit? Apparently some people do. That doesn’t make much sense to me either.”

The response from OCAR has been to file a disciplinary complaint against Roberts claiming he violated Article 15 of the organization’s Code of Ethics, a provision which says association members should not “knowingly lie about competitors.”

Roberts, via his attorney, Scott Sims, notes that “Roberts is not a member of the OCAR, OCAR has no right to initiate a disciplinary proceeding against Roberts, and no grievance panel convened by OCAR has jurisdiction over Roberts. Accordingly, even if Roberts had engaged in wrongdoing (which he has not), any disciplinary action taken by an OCAR grievance panel would carry no legal force and effect and OCAR would be exposing itself to liability for any and all damages to Roberts resulting from any disciplinary action.”

Tradition

If the question is whether Roberts is provocative the answer is yes. So what? Roberts has his opinion, you and I have ours, and everyone can individually decide what they think. The free exchange of ideas — including strongly-expressed ideas — is healthy, useful and a basic American value, one expressed clearly in the First Amendment.

St. George Tucker, author of the Americanized version Blackstone’s Commentaries, put it this way in 1803:

  “Liberty of speech and of discussion in all speculative matters, consists in the absolute and uncontrollable right of speaking, writing, and publishing, our opinions concerning any subject, whether religious, philosophical, or political….”

If you don’t like Robert’s view then go to his blog and post a comment which tears into his opinions. No need to be shy.

Or, ignore him.

There are more than a trillion pages that have been indexed by Google. If you don’t make a big deal out of Roberts’ comment it will sink in an ocean of content.

Instead, by filing a grievance, OCAR has amplified the conversation and given Roberts a huge platform for his views.

Puffery

Real estate licensees typically have an obligation to avoid error, exaggeration,
misrepresentation, or concealment of material facts. However, they can be and should be advocates for their client’s interests and toward that end they can engage in puffery.

“Puffery,” explains Wikipedia, “as a legal term refers to promotional statements and claims that express subjective rather than objective views, such that no reasonable person would take them literally. Puffery serves to ‘puff up’ an exaggerated image of what is being described and is especially featured in testimonials.”

In other words, a listing broker has every right to say, “gee, I really love the kitchen. Look at those great cabinets and the terrific view of the patio.” That’s puffery and should be taken for what it represents: salesmanship and advocacy. Everybody in every field and profession does that.

What the listing broker can’t say is that “the property has 20,000 square feet of ground” when it only has 15,000 square feet. That’s a lie and should be punished.

It will be interesting to see where the dispute between Roberts and OCAR winds up. Stay tuned.

From HousingWire.com

Blogger, California Realtor association feud over blog posts

Wednesday, June 8th, 2011, 8:21 am

A real estate broker in Irvine, Calif., is fighting claims he lied and disparaged professional real estate agents by criticizing them on a blog for failing to give homebuyers the best advice.

The Orange County Association of Realtors alleges Larry Roberts used a blog to discuss the real estate community’s ethical practices.

While Roberts never identified any individual real estate agent, he argued they employ salesperson-type tactics, acting without any obligation to offer sound advice that could dissuade buyers from bad deals.

His comments rattled the Orange County Association of Realtors, prompting the association to send a letter requesting Roberts attend a disciplinary hearing for violating an ethics code under multiple listing service agreements.

Roberts’ attorney fired back, arguing in a letter that OCAR has no jurisdiction over Roberts, who is a real estate broker but not a member of the trade group. Roberts also contends any attempt to silence him is unconstitutional.

“This is America. Mr. Roberts would welcome an informed data-driven debate on the housing market,” said Scott Simms, Roberts’ attorney. “Unfortunately OCAR prefers secret trials to silence him. Roberts has done nothing wrong. He has only exercised the free speech rights that every American holds dear.”

A spokesperson for OCAR could not be reached for comment.

One of Roberts’ main points of concern is the structure of the Realtor job description. He argued in blog posts that brokers escaped the crisis with their reputations intact, even though he believes they were complicit in failing to warn clients about housing bubbles and inflated home values.

Roberts contends that real estate brokers should either assume some professional responsibility to advise clients on areas of risk, or they should admit publicly that they are commissioned-based sales agents who should not be relied upon for unbiased counsel.

Write to Kerri Panchuk.

You’ve made it to Jim the Realtor’s blog.  I think he’s behind you, too.

First off, I never write in, but this is just too much…
When they come at you with a knife, you use a gun….

Maybe it’s time to take a poll of the readers and see how many provable lies realtors create just through the mls system.  How many erroneous mls postings have they made with regards to “days on market”? This one category alone would probably be sufficient to file conspiracy charges against the whole southern Ca realtor and mls associations.
I am sure there are many readers out there who would contribute to an information fund to help you build a case.  I for one would. I would think that the threat of this alone would cause them to scury back under their rocks, for if they think what you said was bad, think of how tarnished they look when multiples of examples hit the mainstream media by your counter-suit.

Keep the faith!

IR -

I’ve bought and sold numerous properties across the nation.  Though I have worked with several high quality professionals who were realtors (and remain close friends with a couple), I’ve seen plenty of realtors who were low quality scum bags.  Like any easy entry / high paying profession, real estate will attrack all kinds.  Its just very sad and telling that the OCAR thinks that you are the problem.

On a different yet related note - I saw a poll today that 51 % of Rep. Weiner’s district thinks that he should keep his job.  I won’t comment on his actions but I can’t believe that that many people will accept representation from a person who openly lied to them and then admitted it only after he had to.  Where did our sense of morals and integrity go?  So if 51 % of people are happy to represented by this kind of character, is there any chance that realtors that stretch the truth for their own gain should have job security fears.

The housing cool-aide is alive and well in the OC.  We just won’t see it again until the banks and developers can figure out a way to get people into “affordable” housing easliy again.  Realtors will be right there with them selling the “truth” to line their pockets.

Go to the meeting and have a ball Larry.  I’m sure you’ll do your homework and be well prepared.  You have a lot to learn / gain and not much to loose.  If you approach it with the right mindset, it could actually be fun.  Personally, I’d try to figure out a way to spin them up soooo much that their little brains pop.

Good luck and I’m behind you.

FH

Good for you.  You’re making the thieves squeal.

I don’t comment here often, as my goals do not include buying a home, whether in California or anywhere else—but I’ve appreciated your efforts to shine a light on the real estate bubble and its deleterious effects.

The fact that they’re suing you is hilarious.  They have delusions of adequacy, and yet they’re petrified of your influence.  It’d be a comedy if not for the utter destruction these people have left in their wake.

News Flash: IrvineRenter is right

http://www.ocregister.com/news/sparks-303684-irvine-choi.html

I would love to see a story like this one hit 60 Minutes. Seriously.  Orange County. Large SUVs. Realtors collecting their corner “for sale” signs.
Foreclosures and equity withdrawal up the yingyang.  It’s 2011 and the rest of m’merica still doesn’t have a clue what’s gone down/still going down out here.

You should agree to do it under the expressed condition that Mike Wallace come back to do the interview and investigation.

I’m a past client of Shevy’s and I fully endorse the service and professionalism provided. You have my full support, not that you guys need more. 

Keep up the great work, IR.

In the words of the Toasters song: “Don’t let the bastards grind you down.”

http://www.cotohousingblog.com/

the 5 Lies All Sellers (and their RE agents) Tell:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/First-Person-The-5-Lies-All-ac-1096324323.html

Why deny you are “running a brokerage”?  Everyone knows you are partners with Shevy Akason and run your deals through his company.

This is what I posted today on the O.C Register article about the blogger vs OCAR. Not rants or outrageous name calling, but the facts on the issue of lying.

Let’s look at the heart of the issue: Is the real estate industry filled with licensed members who are dishonest/commit fraud on the public? The facts below were found on the Department of Real Estate Official Web site:
In the July 28, 2010 commissioners publication for immediate release, the headline reads,  “Record Number of License Revocations for the 4th straight year.”
 
06/07 07/08   08/09   09/10  
553   705   826   886
The most staggering statistic was that as of 7/28/10 there were, “5,400 Open Investigations.”
The above are statistics that don’t lie or make personal attacks on a blogger for being correct in his article.