185 thoughts on “Irvine Housing Brokers”

1. mike April 4, 2009 at 5:13 pm

   Not that my opinion matters to anyone here, I will state it anyway.

   With the cheesy photos and the realtor speak I think the smell of easy money has finally gotten to you Larry. I see this venture possibly going good for you two in the beginning, greed will eventually take over and you will forget your original honest intentions. Has happened to better men than you.
   1. Sad April 4, 2009 at 5:53 pm

      Same feeling here. In addition, the future posts here might be marked with “from the mouth of a realtor”…
   2. Lee in Irvine April 5, 2009 at 12:13 am

      I disagree. I think it’s a great idea for IR to go in to this business. The local RE business is full of idiots, cheats & liars, and needs a fresh face to come in and be honest with people … IR can do this. Kinda like Jesus … IR is going into a dark place to deliver his sermon to the sinners.

      Good Luck IR!

      🙂
      1. dafox April 5, 2009 at 1:42 am

         I agree Lee. I’ve long thought even I could do well in real estate cause I can write a 1 paragraph description and not f*ck it up.

         Good for you IR. Please go be noble and honest in an industry full of HS dropouts that would be pumping gas if there wasnt a real estate bubble.
         1. Food April 5, 2009 at 8:35 am

            I as well. IR is brilliant. I hope IR will run for office someday. Replacing the evil bank-robbing secretary of treasury such as Paulson or Geitner would be great.
   3. dr surfdog April 6, 2009 at 5:12 pm

      Two observations on your initial post, unrelated to one another:

      1. It’s curious that you’re launching “Irvine Housing Brokers” but you don’t think Irvine is a good place to invest (yet). The name is strange given how you’re defining the new business in your post.

      2. I’ve never seen you comment on how Irvine’s price premium may be due (in part) to the public school quality. I’m an OC native moving back this summer to start a job as a management professor. I’ve been away 19 years, but my mom lives in Woodbridge and I’m very familiar with the area. As we’re researching school districts, Irvine is consistently on top in OC, followed by Yorba Linda. There are great schools in other areas, but they exist in pockets surrounded by inconsistent quality. If an average family has 2 kids, and good private schools are $10K/year/kid. That’s $240K (conservatively assuming tuition rises with inflation- $20 X 12– not adjusting for moves). That means the same $500K house in a crummy district will fetch $740K in Irvine. This simplistic model can account for some of the pricing disparity. There are nice parts of Santa Ana, but do I want my kids being educated in Santa Ana Unified?
      1. mav April 6, 2009 at 6:07 pm

         Dr. Surfdog,
         This is the pricing model I have tried to bring to this blog for a while now. You are the first I’ve seen to suggest the same thing. Personally I would much rather send my kids to a private school, as I believe the schools in Irvine have more to do with a segment of students and parents than any real differential in quality. If your kid does not fit in to that segment it might now work out the way some think. It’s much more difficult to get into top colleges when your kids can not assimilate to the high school and effectively compete.
         1. dr surfdog April 6, 2009 at 8:03 pm

            Hi Mav, yes, school quality is a function of socioeconomic status (SES), which in turn is generally a function of parental education. So the quality of Irvine schools is a function of higher SES, and lower variation in SES. In other words, the “quality” of a school district generally is positively related to the SES of the community.

            What you describe is about “real differential in quality” pertains to a kid’s “fit” with the school’s demographic, culture (values), level of challenge, curriculum, etc. I agree, fit also can make or break a kid’s education. And, there are excellent schools (numbers-wise) that can be a good fit or a bad fit. I recognize some in Irvine are like that.

            But overall, I do think Irvinerenter is overlooking a key driver of real estate valuation. Additional features that keep Irvine prices propped up include it’s central location, parks and amenities, and low crime rates.
         2. Gindy April 7, 2009 at 3:17 pm

            Oh I don’t know about that. Here in rural Indiana my daughter, a goth chick, stuck out like a sore thumb amongst the jocks and preppy mean girl wannabees.
            She graduated with honors and was accepted into a couple of Ivy League schools. Unfortunately, or fortunately for my bank balance, they did not have her major (Criminal Justice) so she chose to attend the state school that does (IU).
            Not fitting into a clique at school is hardly a big deal. Both my husband and myself never did and we pull in a an easy $250K per year and live pretty nicely on our 22.6 acre farm in a 4500 sq ft house with two new cars and a nice elderly BMW. We also have a stable 401Ks, IRAs and a hefty cash balance in our CDs paying over 5% (old ones, admittedly).
            I think being an “outcast” can be character building IF the child is from strong stock. If he or she is raised to think they are the center of the universe, well not so much.
            1. dr surfdog April 7, 2009 at 4:59 pm

               yes, sounds like your daughter is “strong stock.” but it also sounds like she found her own group to be a part of. in other words, the preppy jocks, from her perspective, were the real outcasts. social psychologists call that an out-group, while the group(s) that you attach yourself to is the in-group.
            2. mav April 7, 2009 at 7:39 pm

               It’s certainly possible to be different and be successful in High School. I am a Bak Wai who went to a similar demographic-ed public high school of the same quality outside of Irvine. I went on to obtain multiple Ivy League degrees. If you wanted to be a Bak Wai and be successful at that school you had to assimilate with the asian culture. I am not saying this is bad, it is just something to consider. Plenty of Orange County Bak Wai brats won’t….. and don’t even have a chance… for such students the Irvine School’s are not necessarily a good option.
            3. dr surfdog April 7, 2009 at 11:28 pm

               Hi Mav,

               Can you elaborate? I’m not familiar with what a “Bak Wai brat” is. Isn’t Bak Wai a derogatory term for a caucasian?

               I’m curious since my wife is Korean (with no ties to Korean culture), and I’m caucasian, so we have biracial kids. I’ve noticed a lot of biracial kids in Irvine.
2. Party Pooper April 4, 2009 at 5:44 pm

   Ditto with Mike.

   & this is the last time I am visiting here.

   Sell-out.
3. Modguy April 4, 2009 at 5:59 pm

   Is this a late April’s Fools Joke?

   wtf?

   You cannot talk honestly about the market; or a specific property; or particular seller’s distress and then turn around and try to market the same property for sale… either you will forget your honest intentions and start talking realtor-speak to get it sold, or you’ll stick to your honest approach and never sell a house.

   It doesn’t work both ways (I actually tried to be a good/honest agent in 2002-2003, and no one was interested).
   1. Jim April 8, 2009 at 10:41 am

      I also tried to be an honest agent…and no one was interested. I got into real estate with the idea of helping people(and obviously to make some cash), but soon realized it’s all about whether they like you or not….and the only way they will like you, since they don’t really know you, is if you fortify thier current beliefs…like “Yes this little box of a house is totally worth the half-million your about to over-leverage for.” or “The $300 per month in dues and the melloroos tax is a GREAT way to protect your investment.” BS

      What I quickly found out is an honest comment about possible risks was quickly viewed as negative comment by most. I couldn’t handle it anymore, but good look trying.
4. Modguy April 4, 2009 at 6:03 pm

   Oh, and another thing… You will be FORCED to censor the board and even remove posts, right?

   Let’s say you post some god-awful piece-of-sh*t home for sale, and all people want to talk about is talk about how god-awful ugly it is, and the HOA is too expensive, and the decor is out-of-date, and of course the train tracks run through the back yard.

   You’re not going to want to edit or delete comments like those directed at YOUR client’s properties?

   IHB has jumped the shark.
   1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 6:24 pm

      “You’re not going to want to edit or delete comments like those directed at YOUR client’s properties?”

      No.

      If a seller wants maximum exposure during the week, it will be a post like any other. If they don’t want to be subject to the slings and arrows of the IHB, they will be a weekend profile with comments disabled. It puts them in the RSS feed, but it will generate much less interest.
      1. Modguy April 4, 2009 at 6:42 pm

         I appreciate the response. I don’t want to harshly criticize because I like you (I don’t know you, but I’ve been reading this blog for a couple years now). However, I can’t stop thinking about this… I just don’t get how it will work.

         I’ll say again that I got my R/E license a few years ago to do the same exact thing (maybe I was ahead of my time, since everyone was drunk on Kool-Aide a the time), but I did in-depth research, presented detailed reports about properties, drilled-down on my potential seller/buyer’s true needs/desires, etc. all in an attempt to be the most honest/ethical and helpful Realtor I could be, and I failed miserably. People are Stupid and they wanted to be led like sheep and only hear the positive spin (lies) – and as much as people say they dislike the typical Realtor stereotype, they ran to them with open arms.
         1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 6:48 pm

            We may come to the same conclusion you did. Perhaps it was your timing because you tried to be truthful during a time when everyone was kool aid intoxicated and wanted to be lied to. Either times have changed, and people are willing to listen to truth and reality, or nothing has changed, and we will fail.

            I know there are many people who want to read the truth, or the IHB would not have so many readers. Does that translate into real estate sales? I don’t know. We will see.
5. CapitalismWorks April 4, 2009 at 6:05 pm

   I am a potential buyer in 2010. I like the idea of realtors providing valuation metrics beyond comparable sales (it ought to be required by the NAR).

   What type of commissions do you plan on charging. Standard 6%?
   1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 6:31 pm

      We will start with standard commission rates. Although this is a hobby for me and Zovall, Shevy is making a living from this venture. It is my hope to achieve a level of volume where we can bring down commissions. We hope that we provide more value than the cheapest realtor in the market, but I hope we can get to a point that we can provide superior value and provide a better price.
      1. CapitalismWorks April 4, 2009 at 11:35 pm

         I have a buying agent, and old friend of the family. Though if you are on the selling side, I hope we can do business. I see absolutely nothing wrong with seeking to monetize your work on this board.
      2. dafox April 5, 2009 at 1:44 am

         may I suggest commission from a seller and a flat fee from a buyer? As a buyer, I want someone who doesnt get paid MORE when I pay more. I want someone who will fight for me to get a lower price because they dont get paid any more.
      3. WTH April 5, 2009 at 11:14 pm

         I don’t know if this is going to work. You made fun of the 6% commissions and this is where you are starting? You called them Realtards working in a business where 6% commissions are dying and you charge the same 6%?

         There are so many things you can do, like setup a fund for real estate purchases based on your analysis and sell this for a profit. Many other things as well. How can we now trust what you’re posting? I enjoyed the site for a long time. Thanks for the info for the past 2 years.
      4. Shocked April 6, 2009 at 11:16 pm

         Go to a discount broker with a maximum 2%. This shows me you’ve been less than honest about your anger at excessive greed.

         Six percent was the norm before:

         1. low interest rates

         2. Clinton’s change in home sale gains taxation
         http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/business/19tax.html?_r=1&hp;
         3. Securitization of home loans which lowered lending standards and increased home building.

         4. Contracting home prices.

         So If I want to sell my home $400,00 condo, I have to give you $24,000??? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

         I know what real estate agents do, and it ain’t rocket science. Yes I know about comps and price per square foot, caravans, etc.

         What you do get is a level of professionalism that won’t scare away buyers or buyer’s agents. So 8K for a 400k condo might be a fair investment.

         If people do some of the leg work (MLS search, etc), then bring in an agent as a spokesperson, then that’s the way it should be done.

         AHHHHHHHHHH!
6. Dean April 4, 2009 at 6:12 pm

   I wish you the best of luck and hope that you stay true to your cause. I have no reason to doubt your integrity, but there is the potential for using overly optimistic inputs to sway potential buyers. I hope that this will never be the case.

   I think the term sell out is harsh, since I think you’re trying to do the right thing. Eliminating the bad agents and brokers is a good thing, and sometimes all it takes is a better business plan. This seems like it is.

   You are representing yourself as the “truth” in real estate. Please understand that with it comes a responsibility. You don’t want to end up looking as ridiculous as the current breed of brokers and realtors you’re looking to replace.
   1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 6:43 pm

      “there is the potential for using overly optimistic inputs to sway potential buyers. I hope that this will never be the case.”

      This is where business philosophy and ethics becomes important. American business has sacrificed long-term growth and stability for short-term gains for too long. Our core mission is to educate buyers and tell the truth because it builds relationships and trust in the long term. There will always be temptations to take a shortcut and fudge numbers to close a sale today. Do that a few times, and you give up your long-term growth strategy and the business withers. If we can’t remain disciplined enough to pursue our long-term strategy, then we deserve to fail.

      “sometimes all it takes is a better business plan.”

      I hope that is what we have. I found the article about Jim Klinge interesting because he has been pursuing this strategy in North San Diego County for the last several years, and he has survived the downturn and prospered.

      “You don’t want to end up looking as ridiculous as the current breed of brokers and realtors you’re looking to replace.”

      Have you ever read George Orwell’s Animal Farm? I have thought about this problem frequently, and I keep remembering this book. Orwell takes the reader through the slow process of change that made the idealistic animals turn into their own worst enemies. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
      1. Mike7 April 6, 2009 at 10:09 pm

         I don’t think there is anything wrong with trying to make some money in the RE business. I think it will be a challenge to sell a property that you think sucks without being honest. Allot of people including myself come to this site to hear an opinion from someone who isn’t getting paid. We’ll see what happens.
   2. watcher April 4, 2009 at 9:55 pm

      Hi Dean, that is what I want to say, actually, you will be going to their level when you do the same for living.
      I might miss anything here.
7. Chris April 4, 2009 at 6:24 pm

   I would have to agree on the comments above. Once you’re in the business of RE, you will only serve the benefit of the buyer/seller IF the commission is right. I only know one realtor in Irvine that really helped me purchase my first home in Irvine without regards to commission whatsoever (the commission that the seller was offering was pathetic. However, it was a seller’s market). I doubt IR will follow that realtor’s footstep.

   I also doubt IR will tell potential buyers NOT to buy certain properties based on their conditions, comps, overall macroecon condition, etc, if he can get his hands on that 1+% commission on his shared end (6% total comm is no longer accepted in this industry from sellers’ perspective. Look it up IR).

   This blog, although I’m not sure how much IR generates cash flow outta this, **was** informative for me. But I guess money is really a BIG motivating factor in anything and everything.

   I’d take his future blogs with a lotta salt.

   AZ, how about a picture on this?
   1. AZDavidPhx April 6, 2009 at 6:02 am

      hmmmmmm……
8. sunsetbeachguy April 4, 2009 at 6:45 pm

   I have been waiting for the OC version of JtR.

   I am starting to get serious about buying in HB.

   I think HB is in the same deflation phase as Irvine so it is still probably too early but it never hurts to get a watch list working.
9. Irvine Cyclist April 4, 2009 at 6:58 pm

   Long time lurker here (since 07). I say good for you Irvine Renter. You’ve worked really hard to keep us all informed, and saved my wife and I from buying during the frenzy. I read you everyday with my morning breakfast. Just make sure to continue to be totally transparent and don’t sell out. I am forever indebted to you. All the best! (p.s. You really have to get rid of those cheesy realtor pictures. Everytime I see one of those, I think REALTARD stay away!!!)
   1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 8:29 pm

      “You really have to get rid of those cheesy realtor pictures. Everytime I see one of those, I think REALTARD stay away!!!”

      I am open to suggestions on how else to be photographed. A head shot in a dress shirt and tie can only be done so many ways. Mine is actually my professional consultant photo. It may just look cheesy now because it is associated with being a realtor.

      Perhaps we could do away with head shots altogether. There is no law requiring them; although, I suspect some people want to put a face with the name before they contact them.

      Perhaps AZDavidPhx can photochop us…

      At least we didn’t go to Glamour Shots.
      1. caycifish April 5, 2009 at 10:29 pm

         My only comment is that Shevy’s headshot made my first reaction to this post “Eww! He’s scary!” Seriously creeped me out. My posts over in the forums were inspired by that gut reaction.

         Seriously, dude. Get a headshot that doesn’t make me feel like you will reach through the screen and steal my soul.
      2. MalibuRenter April 6, 2009 at 5:15 am

         You’re concentrating on the photo itself. See if you can grab a hi-res screenshot from speaking at google. Then, put something like “Larry Roberts speaking at the Google author’s series”

         There’s a reason why they don’t invite typical realtors to speak. Make your photo a differentiator.
      3. AZDavidPhx April 6, 2009 at 6:11 am

         We need a billboard – something like the Dice Man’s.

         http://www.crackthecode.us/images/TheDiceMan.jpg
      4. Blueberry Pie April 7, 2009 at 12:43 am

         I’ve often wondered why Real Estate agent is one of the few jobs where it is standard to put your face on every business card and other piece of advertising. If I see a dentist ad with a picture of the dentist, it makes me think he’s trying too hard.
         1. Bitter Renter April 7, 2009 at 5:01 am

            Yeah, that’s always struck me very odd as well.
10. IrvineRealtor April 4, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    Sincere congratulations and good luck, Larry, Zack 😉 , and Chevy. If you end up needing help in the future, I hope I make your short list.

    FWIW, I still see a downswing in sales price numbers all across SoCal and will be content to work with sellers and set up leases for buyers, if they’re open to it.

    Deals may be good now, but they continue to look like they’re getting better in the future.
    [img]http://irvinerealtorsite.com/Caseshillermay08.JPG[/img]

    Not calling bottom, yet.

    -IrvineRealtor
    1. MalibuRenter April 4, 2009 at 8:58 pm

       People keep doing comparisons to January of 2000. That is not a privileged point in time. It was actually a the highest price point up to that time for much of the US.
       1. me2 April 5, 2009 at 7:57 am

          that’s how realtors normally operate, misleading mass. I am afraid IR joins these folks. He should have started the line from 1997 when price finally bottomed not peak of Normal Housing Bubble in 2000-2001.
11. CubicZ April 4, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    Oh-oh! Will that mean you will call the “bottom” and start featuring “hot buys” very soon?

    Kidding aside, you have made a very wise career move. Good luck to you, and hope you will still retain your free speech after you have become “one of them”.

    CZ
12. mav April 4, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    IrvineRenter,
    I think this is a nobel initiative. The only question I have is whether this is a realistic competitive niche for Shevy that will ultimately create value. This market positioning gives him credibility and trust which is key to a successful business venture. However, it requires time to achieve the price realization process. Shevy serves to help educate the consumer. Once prices are aligned with fundamentals the consumer does not need his assistance. Once prices fall enough it is also easy to replicate the strategy.
13. Mattman April 4, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    I say congratulations. You have ran this blog out of your own FREE time and put up with many trolls over the years dispensing much truth all as a volunteer. I think this is smart to help pay you back for all this service. I understand the many other comments worrying about this blog now being biased, however my gut feeling is you do have a very strong set of base morals that you prioritize higher than money. I’d much rather have an honest, informed, conservative rep in a home transaction than a realtard.
14. TheNumbersNeverLie April 4, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    Do you seriously think people that visit this site are going to be swindled by some half-wit Realtor? Do you think the “astute” observers of this site need you to shepherd us through the valley of real estate hell? I know I don’t.

    I have been an avid supporter of IHB. I appreciate your commitment to this site Lawrence, but I echo the sentiments of others when I say this is a tremendous disappointment. Most of what I liked best about this site was that you were one of us. Now you are one of them, and that my friend (I say this despite never having met you), is unfortunate.

    I guess we can’t fault you for trying to capitalize on this opportunity, lest we forget this is America.

    Good luck.
    1. mav April 4, 2009 at 8:36 pm

       I agree with this point.

       The other basic point I question is whether the more desirable markets will fall to a level in line with these rental fundamentals. When I lived in the Southern California in the 90s, the more desirable locations and abodes did not fall to rental parity. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t think Irvine was as desirable in the 90s as it is now. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

       My basic hypothesis is that more intelligent people will want to live in more desirable areas. From an investment standpoint I can see this business model potentially working. But to the point above, do such people need help in analyzing the opportunities?
       1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 9:08 pm

          One of the key issues we have been wrestling with is what to do about presenting houses were current valuations are above fundamentals. There are no ideal solutions. Our approach is to (1) provide buyers with multiple methods of valuation, (2)explain to them how these values are derived, (3)provide our reasoning for believing prices will fall to one level or another, and (4) let them make their own decisions.

          For instance, the most desirable properties in the best neighborhoods may not get all the way to rental parity, but the price point where long-term homeowners make an cashflow investment return on home ownership is about 10% above rental parity, and perhaps this is a better estimate for those properties (see Investment Value of Residential Real Estate). On the other extreme, tiny condos are going to get hammered, and they should fall down to cashflow investor levels. We provide all these valuation levels, and provide our opinion as to which one is most valid for a particular property.

          We can only lead a buyer to market. If armed with accurate information and our opinion of the market, if they want to make an offer on a property, is it my responsibility to stop them? I don’t think so. I am their teacher, not their father.
          1. mav April 4, 2009 at 9:14 pm

             I agree with your rationale….. and oh what a tangled web we weave 😉 ….. I would like a Redfin type business model where a price has been pre-negotiated with a “Buy-it-now” button along side the fundamental analysis. Perhaps not realistic, but I would like it. I would also like you to kick back 2% like redfin…. then we can talk. 🙂
             1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 9:27 pm

                I hope we can get to the point we can start to shave down commissions. Once we get to a volume that feeds Shevy’s family, I would like to experiment with lower commissions and find the point where price and volume create the most revenue. Personally, as a hobbyist, I would give everyone the “good guy” discount, but somebody has to do the legwork, and they deserve some compensation for that.

                One the buy-side ideas we are considering is a bid submission service where all we do is submit bids–no driving people around to see properties or any other legwork. If someone has seen a property and simply wants to be able to submit a bid, then the Redfin commission structure makes sense, and we may do this. That would enable us to kick back commission dollars.
             2. tryingtobuy April 6, 2009 at 7:24 am

                IR I think this is a great idea. Maybe just maybe this is the start of a decent, honest new world order for this industry. We all agree here, their is so much room for improvemnt it should be a no brainer for you guys. My options are a broker who will say anything, take any lsiting, lie about the market and everything else, OR a well informed person with all the fundamental numbers and valuations to pass onto me so I can make a well informed decision. Tough choice, I think not. Good luck, I will be in touch.

                Please stay true to the IHB objectivity.
       2. Schadendude April 4, 2009 at 9:32 pm

          Yeah, I gotta throw in with Numbers, Mav and others.

          You had to know you were going to ruffle some feathers with this one Larry, and ruffle you did. I think if someone had suggested a couple years ago that you’d be switching sides to profit off your integrity, you’d have laughed at them. I understand that you’ve worked hard at this, and that long-term community service doesn’t pay well, but surely you can understand that many of us feel a little betrayed. You were the white knight man; the guy who stood between us and the legion of realtards who saw us as nothing more than a payday.
          I think your heart is in the right place, and we all want to make a little extra coin in this economy, but this decision compromises your integrity. It just does.
          I may keep reading, because who doesn’t want to watch some guy trying to cross two skyscrapers on a tightrope with no net, but remember there’s no backing up.
          “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.”

          When I was in college, I worked for a local collectables grading company, PCGS. Their mission was to determine the quality of the collectables and seal said collectable in a tamper proof lucite case so that the market could determine a price easily and not have to dispute the condition. The business was founded on integrity, but one year they decided they could make much more money by auctioning off collectables as well. So now you had the same company that was determining value for the asset, also selling the asset.
          Though the business still exists, there are many in the industry who will not use them, obviously because there is a built in conflict of interest.
          I understand that sentiment, because during my time there I saw really shady shit. Like a collectable making several trips to the grading room, the last of which was accompanied by the business owner to ‘ensure’ the item was graded fairly… lol

          I really do wish you the best man, cause you’ve been good to us over the years, but if you’re able to maintain your compass through this new venture, you’ll be one of the first in history to do so.
          1. watcher April 5, 2009 at 12:29 am

             I will not if:

             You are another remasked realtor
             you earn percentage of transaction not fixed amount

             I will pay if:
             you list buyers’ request
             you ask seller to bid

             you make money because you are at buyer side and hold buyer’s interest that is yours.
    2. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 8:56 pm

       “Do you think the “astute” observers of this site need you to shepherd us through the valley of real estate hell?”

       Many do not. In fact, most of those who contribute astute observations do so because they do know a great deal about real estate, and they do not need their hands held through a typical real estate transaction. However, many people who come to this site do not comment, and they come here because they are not real estate experts, and they do need someone to explain how the process works and what is really going on with the market. This is the market we intend to serve.

       We can’t be all things to all people, and we will not try to be. There are people out there that can benefit from the service we are providing; that is who we are here for. I know those people exist because over the last two years, I have answered hundreds of emails from people asking questions about real estate.

       I look at this as a way to help more people. It is far easier for me to justify taking more time away from my family to assist people if I am getting compensated for it. Even altruism comes with a price.

       My task is to clearly and accurately tell the world who we are and what we do. Those people who we can serve will be drawn to us. Those people who do not need our help will not. If there is nobody who can benefit from the services we provide, we will get no business, and we will stop trying.
    3. irvinemommy April 6, 2009 at 4:45 am

       I agree with NumberNeverLie. Disappointing. I think you will be tempted to call bottom too early and be pressured to ‘push’ properties to make money.

       I know we plan to use Redfin when we buy because of the discounted commission. We greatly appreciate your service and analysis. Good luck on your new venture. I also can’t blame you for wanting to capitalize…but maybe there is another way of doing it.
15. AbroadThankGod April 4, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    IR,

    The comments by mike and party pooper are unfair, selfish and certainly hasty.

    I think you nailed the most important issue above – trust. I agree trust is what’s been lost from much of the business world recently. So much so that people have become cynical about any businessmen. I know I have.

    However, are the people that think your new business venture is a bad idea saying that it’s better if Realtors that are clearly untrustworthy are the only option in town?

    Here’s what I’d like to hear from you at this point to help ensure your credibility: “Should we find that honest and open real estate work is simply impossible in the current business, economic or social environment, then we’ll abandon the venture, rather than sacrifice our credibility in the eyes of our readers.”

    I know it’s asking a lot. But it’s that credibility that found you so many readers to begin with.

    Best of luck.
    1. AbroadThankGod April 4, 2009 at 8:40 pm

       PS – The work you have done thus far has been exceedingly valuable thousands of people. I’ve bought multiple copies of your book and given it to loved ones in order to help protect them from themselves.

       You should be commended and we owe you the benefit of the doubt.
16. SoCal78 April 4, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    This reminds me of the person who warns against the dangers of under-age drinking… then hosts their teen’s party at their house… because if they’re going to drink anyway, it might as well be under the supervision of the parent, or so they think.
17. awgeefan April 4, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    I agree with whatever awgee says about this. Waiting for his opinion. . .
    1. awgee April 4, 2009 at 11:57 pm

       I am overwhelmed.

       (and a bit red in the face right now)
18. Orcian April 4, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    I say, Congratulations, Larry and Shevy! Larry, knowing what I know about you and your beliefs and value system, I know you put a lot of thought into choosing Shevy to work with you on this. And that says a lot about Shevy. If I were looking to buy in Irvine, I would choose you both over all those me-first realtors that are one too many. You turned many of us from potentially stupid buyers, into prudent home seekers. Many of us are indebted to you. All the best to you! You deserve it.
19. tonyE April 4, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Texas A%M, huh?

    I’ll bet you got a really big ass school ring, huh! ;-D

    As they sayt, things may be bigger in Texas, but in my experience with many of you fellow alumni the Aggies outdo them all… biggest school rings I’ve ever seen.

    Just make sure, going forward, that you put up a Chinese Wall between the “editorial” and “business” sides of the blog.

    Otherwise you risk losing your credibility.
    1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 9:13 pm

       “Just make sure, going forward, that you put up a Chinese Wall between the “editorial” and “business” sides of the blog.”

       On that we are in full agreement.

       I never did buy a class ring. I didn’t think I had the hand strength to support it… Besides, at one point I worked for a Texas Longhorn, and my Aggie background was only a plus when Texas beat A&M in football and he could gloat.
20. OC Zed April 4, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    I think this is a great idea and have even thought of pursuing such a path myself. I wish you guys the best of luck and hope that you eventually expand your reach into neighboring towns. (There is endless comedic gold going on in the Newport listings right now.)

    I do echo the other posts, however, in my dislike of the headshots. I think the whole concept is cheesy. And, particularly with you guys, your potential clients will already be approaching you with an understanding of who you are. The photos just serve to lump you in with everyone else that you are trying so hard to separate yourselves from.
    1. IrvineRenter April 4, 2009 at 9:30 pm

       Maybe Zovall has the right approach after all…

       Perhaps you are right. Focus on the brand and mention the people rather than focus on the people and mention the brand.
21. Joe R April 4, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    I don’t have a problem with this as
    long as your research is documented
    with sources, and one can cross check
    it against other blogs.
    e.g. This morning I found a list from
    Money magazine listing the expected
    appreciation/depreciation of the 100
    largest US RE markets. It ranges from
    -28% in Miami to +1% in Syracuse(The
    time frame is for March ’09 to
    March ’10.) Our Santa Ana metro area
    is to go down about 10%. That sounds
    reasonable to me, and I think it is in
    line with what I have seen on your
    blog.

    I can always search “IHB and fraud”
    on a search engine, and if you pull
    anything it will be on another blog!

    I compare your service to the
    difference between a load mutual fund
    and a no load fund, where you
    just pay less for about the same thing.
    Anyway, a realtor gets very little
    more for selling a property at too
    high a cost. They make a lot more by
    selling more houses period! Do the
    math! Plus repeat business and
    word of mouth helps any business.
    The internet will make a big change in
    the way all firms do business since
    it becomes more difficult to shut up
    unhappy customers. Of course, it will
    open you up to fake postings by angry
    realtors who have lost business!
    For now, it looks like you are aiming
    at RE investors lookng to invest in +
    cash flow deals.
22. Bitter Renter April 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Congrats on the new venture. As for whether I would use your services, since I’m more of a DIY / research-the-hell-out-of-it type guy, I would be more inclined to purchase through Redfin or using a real estate lawyer paid hourly to avoid such a high commission cost. I agree with your thinking that IHB visitors that aren’t so self-directed and are going to be paying 6% anyway will benefit from paying that 6% to you guys, though.
23. commonsense April 4, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Hi IR,
    I don’t think it works.
    — You are still in the box when you list for sellers, your goal becomes “making money” on transactions and is no difference from what NRA does.
    — You may have chance to make money on buyers ONLY when ONLY you are in the shoes of buyers.
    I don’t jump to the conclusion, common sense tells me it is almost over.
    I will go and see how I can trust you and will be willing to buy from you.
    — Buyers are not stupid and konw what NRA is doing, there is no secret or to be told by a “BROKER”, we as buyers offer to pay when you are on behalf of our interest, I don’t see here.
    Thank you and wish you success.

    Watcher & Waiter

    Watcher who is watching where the money goes
    and Waiter a potential buyer who buys when he knows how BROKERS make money.
    1. Bitter Renter April 4, 2009 at 10:02 pm

       What do guns have to do with this? 🙂 I think you mean NAR rather than NRA.
24. SoCal78 April 4, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    IR, I am concerned that you will have to alter your bio in your book. It currently reads:

    “I am not a realtor or a mortgage broker, and my livelihood, though dependent upon the real estate industry, it is not dependent upon facilitating a home-sale transaction. What is presented here is both historical account and unbiased analysis. My observations of the residential real estate market are not tainted by any need or desire to convince anyone they should buy a house.”

    Although I do support you in trying to capitalize off of your endeavors, I’m not sure this is the route to take. This may affect your credibility and I don’t think that would be beneficial. Wishing you the best, though. Thanks for hearing us out.
25. tlc8386 April 4, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    This was the natural progression in you work and about time RE gets some truth behind it! I think this is a GREAT idea! You put in all the hours and many people need real help in finding a home they can afford that is realistic in value. There is much you can do to change the format of RE and give better service to everyone.

    Best of luck–
26. Max Kickass April 4, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Larry – I hope you make a ton of money from your future endeavors. If you can do this better, faster, cleaner, etc, etc then you would certainly deserve it.

    As my father – Warren Buffet – always said “What’s wrong with being rich – as long as you don’t screw anyone…?”
27. awgee April 4, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Just read a few of the comments, (astute observations), and my oh my, are they harsh.

    I think it is a great idea, and thought of doing the same myself many times. I think the Deuce has already been doing it for awhile though and he will be some stiff and fine competition.

    Yeah, if I was going to hire an RE agent, I would hire the IHB or the Deuce. But, I sure as heck ain’t gonna pay no 6% commish. Everything in the deal is up for negotiation, especially the commission, and in my deal, the commission will be the first on the chopping table.

    And PLEASE change the NAR. What a dirtbag, sleezebag organization.
28. bltserv April 4, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    IR

    It appears you have gone to the dark side.

    “The dark side is about survival. It’s about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual.”

    Part of what has made IHB what it is. Is the sense of community for the common good. Helping others avoid loss in this ongoing downturn in
    the local RE market. And for that. You can be commended.

    As you say this. “Irvine Housing Blog is my hobby, and it will continue to be just a hobby. I did not realize the marketing potential of this hobby until I met the young man who is taking on the responsibility of making sales happen, Shevy Akason”.

    Personally I feel you have sold your hobby to this RE guy. Do some google research on this guy.
    Interesting. Very interesting indeed.

    Nothing wrong with making a buck. But in my opinion you just sold your website.

    Just never thought this day would come.
    Very sad indeed.

    Good luck.
29. IrvineResident April 4, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Money, Money must be funny …
    ABBA
30. No_Such_Reality April 4, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    That explains the recent Shevy pimpin on the weekeends.

    I love Jim the Realtor’s blog, it’s a different beast than IHB though.
31. Max Kickass April 4, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    BTW – I agree with the earlier postings; you guys have got to get new pictures.

    The top of Shevy’s head is cut off and you need a little Photoshop tanning and Gaussian blur.

    White shirts, dark ties and blazers help too. Just look at any big business annual report – this is the uniform of business.

    (normally I’d say wear a school tie in regimental stripes, but since you went to Texas A&M that would consist of a pair of horns interlaced with cans of Coors Light) HA HA.

    I take a lot of portrait and wedding pictures and the picture itself is half the equation. A little bit of post processing goes a long way.

    http://photo.net/learn/digital-photography-workflow/techniques-tips/image-retouching/advanced-skin-softening/

    You don’t need to know this, but make sure whom ever takes your next headshots sure does. Just ask what their post processing consist of and you’ll know if you got the right guy/girl or not.
32. darms April 4, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    (Longtime reader, occasional commenter) – Good luck, IR, on your new venture, if (& that’s a big one) you can keep your honesty & good sense then you could indeed provide a valuable service to some of your readers.

    Your astute observers can help keep you on the straight & narrow as many times I’ve seen them call “bullsh*t” when they saw it. Keeping your comments pages open & uncensored will be a good way to show us you are deserving of our trust. (but I’d love to see a ‘preview’ button)
33. awgee April 5, 2009 at 12:04 am

    And then I have a fear for you.

    My fear is that potential buyers and sellers will allow you to do all the work for them, and then they will actually sign with one of the more established big names.
    1. George Williams April 5, 2009 at 12:40 am

       Sadly awgee, this is fairly typical in the industry: we show people property, then they call a relative/friend to write-up the offer. This is why it is important when working w/a buyer to obtain a commitment from them – just like we do when representing a seller. (And it is no different than how the rest of the world works: who among us would work for free, or without a contract?)
       1. Modguy April 5, 2009 at 3:05 am

          This happened to me a few times when I thought I was going to be a star Real Estate Agent a few years ago (marketing myself as the honest/ethical agent that only cared about my clients’ needs).

          The most memorable one was a couple that HAD to live in Hacienda Heights. I actually had my buyers fill out a detailed survey with weighted preferences and I interviewed them. They knew they had to live in Hacienda Heights, in the hills, in the forested area, on lots of land. Their dream was to buy a classic old rambling home in need of TLC and spend their weekends fixing it up to be their pride and joy.

          After tirelessly showing them multiple homes that fit their greatest desires… They bought directly from a builder: a brand new, tiny, cookie-cutter home in a crowded flat neighborhood with no yard. IT WAS LIKE THEY GOT THE EXCAT OPPOSITE of what they thought they wanted.

          This is when I realized that I wasn’t any good because I thought I was doing the right thing for them, when I should have lied and pressured them and done anything just to get a sale.
    2. Walter April 5, 2009 at 5:13 am

       The reality of being an agent:
       Buyers are liars.
34. Gremlin2000 April 5, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Well that does it!

    If IHB has decided to get into the real estate game then I midas well get back into it.

    I have my main business that I live off of. A few years back I got my real estate license and became a Realtor after having many customers of mine ask me for my advice. I got tired of referring them to my flakey Realtor friend that I’ve known since college.

    Unfortunately for me I actually told them the truth and explained the realities of the situation they were deciding to buy into. I only closed a few transactions and eventually let my conditional license lapse.

    Now some of those same customers are coming back to me and asking me to help them with a loan modification for the bad deals they got themselves into. I just steer them to the local housing authority rather than try and deal with that ever changing quagmire of an industry.

    But if the IHB folks can jump into the fray, well why shouldn’t I come back? My headshot looks ten times better than those two posted above. What is wrong with 6% as long as you earn it. With prices plunging 6% is relatively not as much as it used to be.

    I will just be bringing along my salt shaker every time I log on the the IHB in the future. :coolsmirk:
35. Sunshine April 5, 2009 at 12:23 am

    IR,

    I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. However, the mere appearance of a conflict of interest can have negative consequences, even if you’re ethical and exercise your integrity to its fullest.
36. George Williams April 5, 2009 at 12:28 am

    I wish everyone the best when it comes to full and honest dealings. It is not inexpensive to be successful in real estate, but there is always room for a better mousetrap so to speak. Simply being honest won’t be enough: it is very hard work establishing oneself. Good luck.
37. awgee April 5, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Hey, did everyone see that I have a FAN?

    Or is someone just pulling my chain?

    Oh well, I don’t care if they are. I just like the attention.
    1. mav April 5, 2009 at 4:19 am

       I’d have to say you are probably the most respected posted here, other than IR.
       1. mav April 5, 2009 at 4:19 am

          posted = poster, sorry
          1. it comes in waves April 7, 2009 at 10:22 am

             When I see you on CR I think ‘hey that’s my guy!’ as if I knew you, which of course I don’t.

             Anyway, make that three fans at least.
38. tlc8386 April 5, 2009 at 12:38 am

    What I think really needs to be done is a total revamping of RE—do a fee based system–we will find you a house for 10k—or we will sell your house you pay for ads and here is the breakdown–it cost this much or you give us full commissions –or pay up front–(this way you would not lose out on homes that do not sell)

    So much is lost on RE due to cost of the business and upfront money. GET smart revamp the entire business plan with different ideas and lay them out for whoever it is you want to do business with. Let them choose what is best for them.

    If you can do this transparency you will find business. Right now no one trusts an RE agent especially when they were making a lot of money off of a sale and not doing much for it this is what the general public hates.

    Especially when they hide details and not tell you the condition of the home and lie to you about it’s process whether it’s in foreclosure or not. Finding a buyers agent is missing from this equation–all they see is money from a big sale.

    And in the past this worked out great but now the public demands service.

    The koolaid is still flowing big time in pricing for these homes as well just look in today’s paper.

    It’s very easy to be swept into the this is what your house is worth but what will it sale for? And so many homeowners do nothing to fix it up for sale.

    This market needs a good flush but this is CA and it may not happen –the cheap money is still there to be loaned.

    Job losses will dictate the future so for now those of us wishing RE pricing drops further will just have to wait it out.

    A smart RE agent changes to the environment he is in.
39. bltserv April 5, 2009 at 12:46 am

    I wonder how much experience Shevy Akason has in real estate ? It appears he has had his RE License for all of a little over a year.
    Started his Landmark Companies. All 3 of them just a few months ago. November of 2008.

    Looks like a smooth young man has promised you wealth and you took the bait. Hope you did some
    due diligence here.
40. PGHshawn April 5, 2009 at 12:47 am

    OK – first post ever. I live in Pittsburgh and love the slow-growth RE stability, the quality of life is excellent, but cant help rubbernecking at the car crash that is SoCal RE. I think you are the best site hands-down (used to like LA Land before that one guy left recently). Never compelled to opine before, but here it is:

    1. Singers can become actors, but actors can never become singers (dont ask me why). You guys are attempting to do the latter, and even though everyone here DOES trust you and thinks your hard work should be compensated, you have now crossed a certain line that I cant define, but I just know you crossed it per se. Not that I wont read you anymore, but I just cant trust the blog 100% now. Call me crazy.

    2. If you need or want the $, wouldnt it be a better idea to better market yourself as an anti-realtard pundit, instead of trying to join those you criticize ? Couldnt you write more books, get an agent, do TV appearances, carve out a lucrative niche in THAT capacity ? Or better yet, if you MUST be in RE, couldnt you just offer impartial flat-fee consulting advice on potential deals, thereby maintaining more of your credibility ? Suze Orman has a bit of this problem now that she sells stuff on her website, etc. There is just a flat-out inherient conflict-of-interest here, and I’m just not sure how it can be reconciled.

    3. I really thought this was a April Fools joke as well. Those pics really are pretty tacky (not trying to be hurtful, bc I’m not sure what kind WOULDNT be given the circumstances).

    Anyway, I’m seriously in no position to criticize. Your site has given me tremendous knowledge that I could not put a value on. But what I CAN do is be honest with you in how this looks. Thats the least I can do.

    4. Lastly, I’m sure he’s a good enough dude, but who the hell is this Shevey guy ? Youve been writing this site for HOW long, and this is the first time youve mentioned him ? It comes off as WAY shady; he looks too, I dont know, “I drink your milkshake” to me considering he materializes out of nowhere andthe first time any of us have heard of him is now when he wants to get paid. I think a better-planned intro would have gone a long way toward alleviating this skepticism I’m feeling.

    Anyway, like I said, you worked hard and gave us all a hell of a lot. Whatever you decide to do you are certainly within your karmic rights to do – best of luck and go Steelers …
    1. Bitter Renter April 5, 2009 at 4:13 am

       IR has referenced Shevy and his site several times in the past few weeks — guess you’ve just missed all those days.
       1. PGHshawn April 7, 2009 at 1:50 am

          Thanks for the clarification BR. Either way though, I guess i just cant get with the relatively recent intro of this guy. I hope they do well regardless …
41. George Williams April 5, 2009 at 12:50 am

    I am all for revamping the industry: it doesn’t make sense the way it is currently structured. If I list a home, it is I who bear all the costs, whether or not the home sells, so I am all for the seller paying all the marketing costs.

    Hmmm, let’s see: an ad in DreamHomes magazine is $1,400/issue, full-page newspaper ads are $1,600/issue, 4-page, full color brochures are $2.50/each (we’ll need at least 500), high-quality photos are $30/each, so that’s another $500. Internet advertising: Google AdSense, Trulia Pro, Zillow, and Realtor.com: add another $1,000/mo. For a $2,000,000 home, this is just to begin the marketing. Don’t forget that good marketing is not a one-time shot, so running multiple ads in multiple venues is necessary. What seller would want to foot such a bill? None that I’ve met. Oh, it sounds good in theory, but there is simply no real-worlk application at this point. (Sadly, I compete w/agents and brokers who put virtually nothing into their marketing, so they can charge less because they spend much less marketing a home.)

    BTW, there are thousands of very ethical agents out there: you have to bring something really unique to the table to standout.
    1. tlc8386 April 5, 2009 at 2:24 am

       I understand what you are saying in regard to costs but these are not the average costs for the average home and I highly doubt in this environment many are spending this kind of money as most of the RE in print I have seen is extremely thin.

       And how many are really buying a 2 million dollar house today? So in theory change is needed as you also state you have to compete with those who do nothing but MLS listing while you spend your cash on ads.

       Something has to change—who is brave enough to do so??

       As long as the 6% is still out there and big money is to be made I highly doubt any real change will come. So many of you will be out of work as RE agents are a dime a dozen.

       IR is offering trust and that is hard to come by. And I have met nice RE agents I just don’t like the way they do business.

       There will always be a need for someone to do it all for you as many people have no time for it but for many of us I think we just need truth in every aspect of the process. We have lost faith in the system.

       I know I have—
42. George Williams April 5, 2009 at 1:04 am

    Accdg. to the MLS, Mr. Akason is with Evergreen Realty, has 6 closed sales period (one this year, and one total in Irvine), and has been a Realtor for around 18 months. I admit to having missed all the wonderful advertising Evergreen buys both online and offline, so am wondering if he ‘took the high road’ and opted for a higher payout versus more marketing for his sellers.

    Not sour grapes – I really do wish you well – but you could have aligned yourself with a much more experienced agent.
    1. bltserv April 5, 2009 at 1:18 am

       Mr. Akason also has 3 other companies he started.
       Crimson Sky Consulting, 5 Star Basketball Factory. California Select. All on the same day
       in January 05. As listed with the OC Recorder.

       So currently he has 6 active business listings in Orange County.

       Also owns part of a Home Makeover business in Tustin according to their website.
       http://makenashomemakeover.com/staticpages/biographies.aspx
43. Waterdog April 5, 2009 at 1:43 am

    IR, I’ve been reading the blog now for a year and a half and have learned quite a bit. I can defend myself when people give me that “you’re crazy” look after I point out that pre-2000 prices are probable. Others have found me credible and even “wise” when my predictions have been proven true over time- predictions based on debate from this site. Most people spout off conclusions based on what the media declares: recession’s over….. real estate has bottomed out…. stock market is now a bull. These are all emotional headlines based on misinterpreted data. This site has been more about logical conclusions based on real data. You deserve the credit for that. I’ve always been slow to embrace change but I understand that maybe it is time for things to evolve a little and for you to take it to the next level. I am confident that your loyal readers will continue to challenge your conclusions and the education that many of us receive here will still be available. I wish you luck with this business decision.
44. CulverdaleKidsRock April 5, 2009 at 1:44 am

    First the book, now this… is this the best you can do to leverage your hate/anger of what has happened? We should all be angry. But what was your goal all along? Truth, Money or Fame?

    I am disappointed. I was a casual visitor to your blog and was grateful to see someone voicing a contrarian view of the industry. In retrospect, I was often upset realizing that anger is what fed your contributions each day. And I thought this prevented you from being a more respected, sincere and independent analyst. As someone in the industry with inside knowledge of the mortgage industry, it was nice to see someone out there seeking the truth (although I think you’re farther than close to understanding the finance of mortgages than you think). But, even then, I never would have imagined you’d sell out so fast.

    I might had been more accepting if you decided to half your standard 6% commissions. Alas, this is not to be.

    Best of luck. We all should have known better.
45. IrvineRenter April 5, 2009 at 2:03 am

    This has certainly been an interesting and lively post for astute observations.

    I think many of you are overestimating or overstating what we are doing. We have a service to offer people who may want to use it. If people do not want this service, then nobody will contact us, and the service offering will disappear. It is that simple.

    I am going to continue to write the blog as before. If I change the blog or try to bullshit people, it should be obvious from the comments above that such behavior would not get very far. It is clear that everyone who reads here is ready, willing and able to police the Truth this blog expounds. That is a good thing, it serves to reinforce the trust this blog has built over the last 2 years. Truth has power, and the readers and astute observers on this blog are the best check and balance on the abuse of power that anyone could ask for.

    Perhaps many of you who are most opposed to the idea do not understand how much email I get from people asking them for help. I like getting this email, and I try to help everyone who writes, but there are certain things I could not do to help people because I was not linked to anyone who could broker a deal. This arrangement greatly increases my ability to help people in a more significant way.

    If you don’t need or want this service from us, then don’t contact us and don’t use the service. When you are ready to buy a house, and you are faced with dealing the the real estate sales community, I hope you find someone who you trust who can help you out.

    When Zovall and I originally talked about this idea, we figured we would try to organize an informal network of agents we could refer business to. I was getting an increasing number of requests for referrals, particularly from those interested in cashflow investment properties, so we began looking. We were impressed with Shevy and his understanding of investment properties, so we decided to make it a referral network of one.

    Perhaps I should have written this post differently. It isn’t like I am going to go out and lease a BMW, buy a Rolex and start showing houses. I am not a realtor. I am a real estate blogger who gets requests for referrals, and I wanted to find someone I could send people to. I have made introductions for others, but I knew that without more research and interviewing, it was going to be difficult to make a recommendation I could be sure of. Plus, I wanted to find someone who would provide the services I thought were important like providing value estimates, analyzing investment properties, and giving a realistic evaluation of the market. Shevy does this.

    This venture puts a much responsibility on Shevy. Zovall and I are going to do what we have been doing, and we are going to give Shevy customer leads. Our lives do not change. It will fall to Shevy to provide these services, and maintain high ethical standards. It should be obvious by the comments in this thread that if he fails to do so that we will hear about it. We have confidence in his abilities, or we would not have selected him. Only time will tell how he does.
    1. Alan April 5, 2009 at 5:39 pm

       I can see you guys being very helpful to the less than completely sophisticated and experienced real estate buyer – namely for a buyer who is looking for a home to live in, and may sell and purchase only 2 to 4 times over his/her life as they move up and eventually down in housing. (My parents only ever had 1 house.) Or for someone who wants to try buying a rental property for investment or added income, but has little or no experience with doing that. I’d sure like to have someone on my side in either case, rather than a realtor whose interest is in getting me to spend the maximum possible in order to get the maximum commission.

       I don’t see how any seller would want to hire you though – they look for how to get the highest possible price and the stupidest, most uninformed people who will pay it. I doubt that there are many sellers who want a dose of cold water and being told the lowest price. Maybe some banks, when deciding if they will foreclose or negotiate?
       1. Walter April 5, 2009 at 9:35 pm

          There are people out there that want the property sold in a reasonable amount of time (say 2-3 months) and are willing to come down to the market; not have the house sit forever at a dream price.

          I think IR could be a good fit for these sellers.
46. USCTrojanCPA April 5, 2009 at 2:51 am

    Why not team up with IR2 who has been doing it for years and is probably one of the best realtors out there than a guy who has less experience than me?
    1. tlc8386 April 5, 2009 at 4:05 am

       Just my observation from Shevy’s site but what I could read into it is Shevy is stating ways for others to get into the landlord end of RE–and he shows you his cost analysis of it. Which I think is great to see even though it’s not 100% accurate; nothing is because there are always variables with renting. But it’s still a way to see how one can make money buying at the bottom here in RE.
       His break down on costs is refreshing but after all he is still selling the property and he still has his own interest at stake.

       But helping one who is looking for ways to enter this market is admirable.

       Shevy seems to me as a person looking outside the box for ways to make money and this kind of person is new and refreshing if this is what you are looking for.

       Age and experience may not be necessary as most RE agents do not know how to reinvent themselves.

       I am sure IR has met many agents and seeing a break down of the real costs is indeed rare.

       Getting into this business with him could be a great way for him to insure his residence here in over priced Irvine!

       I am hoping for even more from the three of them!!!!
47. profette April 5, 2009 at 5:03 am

    Larry is a man of the utmost integrity. I know that he will continue to speak the truth. We have all reaped the benefits of his wise counsel and well-researched posts. It’s about time he got to earn a little for all this work. Zovall puts in an enormous amount of time to keep our online community running smoothly. I will turn to IHB when it’s time to buy. Good luck on your new venture guys!
48. Renter_in_CDM April 5, 2009 at 8:35 am

    First time poster. I cannot believe the negativity of some responses. As IR stated above, there are enough loonies ready to voice their opinions if/when IR starts BS-ing.

    Meanwhile, those of you who have issues with IR’s venture, please, please think before you start throwing rocks.
49. Food April 5, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Hey, I have seen so many posting relating how their friends just won’t listen to any logic and insist on purchasing real estate at this insane market anyway. Personally, I have known a couple. Now, they are all sorry. Well, since there are so many nitwit knife-catchers, it might as well to have IR make some money off these losers. These knife-catchers will be in much better hands under IR than any realtards.

    In the meantime, I still cannot forgive TonyE for supporting the treasury/bank robbery disguised as bail-outs/stimulus.
50. Food April 5, 2009 at 9:19 am

    I am very certain that those who responded negatively to this “radical” blog are realtards. They have destroyed Irvine during the bubble years. Now, it is time for someone else to show these realtards what a fair realtor should be.
    1. mickeyc April 5, 2009 at 8:25 pm

       I’m very certain you have a low IQ. I’m a businessman with zero connection to real estate.

       The reason I’m disgusted is because I thought I’d found someone who had “moral fiber” for want of a better phrase.

       These guys only have to fool people as smart as you into giving them your business so they should do OK.
       1. Food April 6, 2009 at 9:16 am

          Sorry about not including you when I have made the astute observation that most pissed-off posters about IR’s new adventure as a realtor are mostly realtards. I should also include pissed-off knife-catchers, HELOC abusers, and nitwit homeowners who are way under water. These guys are always trying to find a way to get back at IR.
51. sdt April 5, 2009 at 10:10 am

    IR, I’ve never posted before, but I’ve been a semi-regular reader for a while. Even though I don’t like your style (too much anger and bile and all), I kept coming back because of your common sense analysis and the valuable FREE info that is hard to find elsewhere. Anyway, this is what I wanted to say:

    All the harsh comments above are totally undeserved. You have given so much to this community. The amount of hard work that you do almost daily is staggering, IMO. It doesn’t seem that most people here really appreciate that. It never ceases to amaze me what people can become feeling ENTITLED to when they are getting it for free. It’s easy for them to criticize but they would not do the work that you’ve been doing. So, don’t let these comments let you down. For each person that is ready to cast the first stone, there are at least two that appreciate your work. You deserve to make money for your hard work!

    It should be obvious by now that you are smarter than most of the players in that industry and that you possess skills that they can only dream for. Given that, there’s no reason why shouldn’t give it a try and take advantage of these superior skills. There’s no guarantee of success, of course, as being better than the fools out there does not mean that you can compete with the best (as I am sure that there realtors and investors that actually know what they are doing). I personally applaud you for having the balls to move from talking the talk to walking the walk.

    There’s always a danger when your hobby becomes your job. You may end up with a job you hate and no hobby. I hope that doesn’t happen to you!

    Good luck on your new venture! I know that I would consider IHB when/if I decide to buy in Irvine.
52. graphrix April 5, 2009 at 11:46 am

    All I have to say, for now, is: If Shevy is all that great and stands behind what he does, then why doesn’t he have the balls to come here and stick up for himself and his services? In fact, can anyone point out a comment of his on the blog, because I have never once seen him post anything on the forums?
    1. bltserv April 5, 2009 at 5:40 pm

       Graph.

       His user name is Landmark. Not much other than
       spam in the forums.
53. icey April 5, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Best of luck to you IHB, you’ve helped alot of people over the past 3 years, so you should enjoy the fruits of your labor, in some sort of fashion.

    It would also be nice to see you realize a business that is honest, like a car business that sells cars for a stated price, without the BS haggling. Car salesmen, investment brokers, employment recruiters, and real estate agents all need major overhauls in the way they sell.

    Couple of questions:

    1) Are you guys only doing cashflow investment type of properties? Or are you also doing family residences for buyers that just want a home and not looking at it as an investment vehicle?

    2) Are you doing homes outside of Irvine?

    3) Are you sure you both have time to do all of this?

    You and Shevy both look like you have several commitments, so as a buyer, I would want to make sure you were both dedicated to helping me find the right home, and not just something you were doing part time and not putting full effort into.

    When I saw this story, I was pretty excited, as you seem to have a deep understanding of valuation and where things are heading, and I am very interested in using your services, my only concern is your available time resources and how those meet customer expectations. I know my own expectations, would probably expect the agent to do a pretty exhaustive search to help meet both my home criteria and price point, and if those could not be met, explain what I could actually afford (without trying to upsell me or talk me into something I don’t really want).

    My last experiences with both a realtor and loan agent, they both wanted me buying something 100-150K over the 3x income rule. That was disheartening, and I walked away, now with a deep sense of mistrust towards the entire industry.

    Thanks for all your help and keep up the great work.
    1. IrvineRenter April 5, 2009 at 7:02 pm

       “1) Are you guys only doing cashflow investment type of properties? Or are you also doing family residences for buyers that just want a home and not looking at it as an investment vehicle?

       2) Are you doing homes outside of Irvine?

       3) Are you sure you both have time to do all of this?”

       We are focusing on cashflow investment properties out of the area right now because those are the only properties that are worth having your money tied up in. You can get good returns on rentals in some beaten down markets. Of course, that does not mean these deals might not improve if prices drop further on these properties, but once prices reach cashflow investor levels, they generally do not drop too much further.

       We will show people properties in Irvine or anywhere else if people want a property to live in. We will show them the proper valuation of the property, and we hope that when they see this they choose not to buy; however, some will buy because they either do not believe our analysis or because they simply want a home. At least we have given them the information. Some of the commenters above were making a big deal of Shevy only closing 6 deals last year. What they don’t know is that he completed 17 leases last year because he steered his customers into renting instead of buying.

       The real question concerning time is whether or not Shevy can handle all this. I am not going to be doing anything other than continuing to write for this blog as I have done before. I am not going to be meeting with buyers and sellers. If Shevy becomes very busy, he will reach out to other agents for help.

       For the record, we would be delighted to work with IrvineRealtor. I have the utmost respect for Scott and the work he has done with many in the IHB community. Our goal in establishing this venture is to make sure people are being served by agents who are telling them the truth. Scott is an excellent agent, and I recommend him to anyone. I sincerely hope the people in the forums who have a relationship with him stay with him and use him for their home purchase.
       1. icey April 6, 2009 at 6:34 am

          Thanks for the detailed responses. And best of luck in your new endeavor, you deserve it.

          By the way, I think the people criticizing you the most, have alot respect for you, they are holding you to very high (if unrealistic) standards, so it can be viewed in a good way that this is generating alot of controversy.
       2. zubs April 6, 2009 at 11:46 pm

          People probably would like to work with someone more active on the boards and blog, and Irvinerealtor certainly is.

          Landmark or Shevy would have to up his post count to get more trustworthy.
54. scott April 5, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Not an Irvine resident but read this blog almost daily because of Irvine Renter’s astute analysis…originally I thought he was just a bitter renter but have come to see him as an excellent analyst of real estate and found his book most informative. Oh, and I enjoy schadenfreude as much as the next person (don’t yo fell all warm and cozy watching people out in the rain?

    As IR himself states, if people don’t want his service, they won’t go to him. Equally one of his most important assets he has in this venture is the readershib of the blog site who are attracted to the site by IR intellect and rigor. If the IHB community believe IR has lost these virtues his audience will – rightly leave in droves. If however he maintains his objective standards the community will remain intact and supportive in my view.

    As a regular reader my view is that IR is aware of this and will maintain an appropriate balance, thus I expect little change. I’ve little doubt as well the community, which benefits from his analysis, will monitor to make sure he remains on this path and will be vocal if there is a shift. I don’t think IR wants us to be silent, the active community here is a strong attraction as well.

    I for one wish IR well in this venture, he certainly has earned this opportunity and I hope it prospers.
55. GoIllini April 5, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    Larry, I wish you the best of luck, but I just don’t see how it works out well.

    One of the major problems I see in the real estate business is that it is primarily populated by sales people rather than true professionals. I define professionals as people that are willing, able, and obligated to look out for their client’s interests above their own. I define a salesperson as someone that is interested in maximizing his/her own personal gain, even at their client’s expense. Yes, there are sales people that act in a professional manner, but they are few and rarely the top performers in their field.

    If I’m one of the vast majority of sellers, why wouldn’t I use a slick salesman rather than an “honest” professional? If I’m a typical buyer, I’m going to get persuaded by the fast talking, good looking, agent/broker/mortgage processor and buy something I can’t afford (to live in), or an overpriced property that is a bad investment (investment property). On the other hand, if I’m a highly experienced and knowledgeable buyer, I’m going to use the R/E agent that will work for the lowest price, because I’ll do all my own evaluation and homework. Finally, if I’m really making a business of R/E investing, I’ll buy a copy of “Real Estate for Dummies” and take the R/E exam, so I can avoid using an intermediary. (OK, I’m exaggerating there… It DOES take some effort to get an R/E license.)

    I don’t think you have the resources to drain the swamp, and I truly believe you’re too nice a guy to be successful in this endeavor. But, again, I wish you the best.
56. Thoreau April 5, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Poor poor KPMG. Wonder who KPMG will blame this time? This is just the beginning. New Century is nothing, Citi Bank the KPMG audit client has helped to bring down the entire world economy with its fraudulent financial statements containing sham tier 3 investments and over valued derivative positions. No one can say that as early as 2005 no one saw this coming, several papers written by distinguished economists predicted the exact result that has obtained using math and decrying the false accounting premises that were being used at the time. Interestingly, in 2005 when all of KPMG’s fraudulent accounting practices for 100s of million in fees were coming to a head, KPMG engaged in the age old art of obfuscation and misdirection by handing over 16 tax partners to the DOJ for a life of ass raping to avoid a detailed prolonged legal battle which surely would have brought to light its massive financial accounting fraud and massive purveyance of corporate tax fraud (at least according to the KPMG employee Mike Hamersley’s definition of tax fraud and to add insult to injury KPMG exchanged the lives of 16 of its tax partners for a halt to the investigation and received audit fees from the DOJ). Nice work Messrs Flynn, Bennett, Holmes, Lonnan and Taft. What are you going do this time, how many audit partners are you going to throw under the bus? Too much litigation will expose your fraudulent sham offshore Bermuda captive insurance company, Park, which not only engaged in massive tax fraud but with the help of Taft defrauded future KPMG partners. What is the now high level government lawyer Mike Hamersley going to do, while at KPMG he engaged in massive corporate tax fraud by his own definition when he helped structure sham paper foreign companies and helped back date documents to create 100s of millions of phony tax losses (word on the street is that in the next 60 days many of Hamersley’s emails showing he engaged in his version of Tax Fraud will be released publicly)? Are KPMG and Hamersley going bankrupt?
    1. I Concur With Tax Partner April 11, 2009 at 6:20 am

       Thoreau (aka Angry Citi Investor, Angry Citi Shareholder, Whistelwhat, Whistlefraud, etc.–I have to admit it is difficult to keep track of all the aliases you are using to post identical comments while appearing to be different bloggers.):

       Your comments about Hamersely just don’t make any sense at all. I too am highly skeptical that your bold statements about Hamersley could be based on any reliable evidence at all. I too read Travails in Tax and personally observed Hamersley’s testimony before the Senate Finance Committee. He seems like an exceedingly honest guy to me too. Yeah, isn’t it a fact that KPMG said Hamersely had absolutely no involvement or knowledge of tax shelters in its press release to the Senate Finace Committee after Hamersley testified in October 2003? I read that KPMG press release on the PBS Frontline website. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/interviews/release.html
       See also Hamersley Senate Finance Committee Testimony 003 TNT 204-35 online at http://finance.senate.gov/hearings/testimony/2003test/102103mhtest.pdf

       Are you suggesting Hamersley and KPMG are in cahoots? Wow, that would be a bold strategy seeing as Hamersley sued the crap out of them. Case No. BC 297209, Los Angeles Superior Court (June 23, 2003.), also reported in Tax Notes Today full copy of complaint 2003 TNT 124-5
57. Priced_Out_IT_Guy April 5, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    IR you have been a voice of reason in a time of insanity and I wish you luck on your new venture. If you can raise the playing field and help the industry become more professional and less crooked then more power to you.

    To doubt your intentions and integrity at this point after all of your hard work for the readers of this blog is foolish. I will definitely consider IHB when I look to buy in ’10-11.
58. Nocal-Doug April 6, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Im with the naysayers. The beauty of this site was that there was NO QUESTION that your analysis was rational and entirely void of undue influence. I dont think you are intentionally going to the dark side, but I will always have to remember that the author is “in the business”. That puts this site on the same level as any number of other sites whose commentary I take with a grain of salt. That pristine image that separated you guys from everyone else is gone. Its a new day for IHB and I will treat it as a new site entirely. We’ll just have to wait to see if its any good. Im still a fan but your AAA rating is under review.
    1. Nocal-Doug April 6, 2009 at 1:03 am

       BTW – I have never posted here but I spent 10 years selling the MBS that fueled this mess we are all in. I watched insanely brilliant people in Wall Street conference rooms drink the kool-aid and simply choose not to see the elephant in the room. I fear that you now have your own elephant and you seem more like the peak buyers pointing frantically at all the reasons why their McMansion really was worth the price.
59. MsMarvel April 6, 2009 at 2:02 am

    I trust you’ll break free from the ultra cheesy adjectives that populate the descriptions. It’s time to retire the “crackling” fireplaces, “sparkling” pools, “gourmet” kitchens, “soaring” ceilings, etc. Also, never call a space that can only hold a recliner and a 13″ TV as a “Family Room.”
60. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 2:29 am

    I went through this post and delete a number of comments containing personal attacks and other comments I felt were inappropriate.
    1. chuckconners April 6, 2009 at 3:35 am

       So how about when the market corrects you throw some business his way? If he makes a few bucks so what?The IHB has saved thousands of people big money by hammering home the dishonest side of the mortgage/real estate con game,plus its a good read.
    2. Bitter Renter April 6, 2009 at 4:33 am

       I can certainly understand your decision to delete the comments that started to get personal, and I guess even the ones that questioned Shevy’s credentials and experience, but I have to say that removing the critiques of some of his listings certainly smacks of the censorship that people said they were concerned about and you said would not occur.

       I am not offended by the comment removals, so I would appreciate it if you would not ban me. It is your blog and you are under no obligation to allow any discussion you feel is inappropriate. However, I do have to say that I’m saddened to see that some of the more dire predictions that I had previously dismissed seem to already be coming true. 🙁

       While I would imagine many of the comments today have infuriated you, I hope you will not delete this one and/or ban me for making it. If you do so, you will certainly lose my respect for your objectivity, and I would imagine many others will feel the same way.
       1. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 5:12 am

          I am not going to ban you. But I am also not going to put up with the rantings of a lynch mob. Rather than trying to sort through the shades of gray, I got rid of them all. If that is censorship, and if that is a problem for people, so be it. Some of the people spouting that crap should be ashamed of themselves. I will not miss them.
       2. Chris April 6, 2009 at 9:36 am

          You got that right Bitter.

          And I have to say this to Larry: I’m ***truely*** sorry that I’ve posted my critique on one of Shevy’s listing.
          1. irvinesinglemom April 7, 2009 at 2:20 am

             Can’t comment on your posted critique since I didn’t see it. However, you spelled “truly” wrong.
             1. Bitter Renter April 7, 2009 at 5:04 am

                That was a reference to the critique, which, among other things, pointed out that Shevy apparently didn’t run a spellchecker on one of his listings, which included the word “truely”.
             2. IrvineRenter April 7, 2009 at 6:32 am

                So you are telling me that Chris is not being sincere and daring me to ban him?

                Thanks for the info.
             3. Bitter Renter April 7, 2009 at 8:07 pm

                No, I’m telling you no such thing. I was just explaining to irvinesinglemom why he misspelled that word. If you think Chris having the audacity to use the word “truely” requires him to be banned… well, it’s your blog… 🙁
61. IrvBike April 6, 2009 at 2:36 am

    IrvineRenter

    Long time lurker, first time poster…

    IR, thank you for the tremendous insight over these past two years. Irvine Housing Blog has been a great source of information and entertainment throughout the housing bubble/crisis.

    I have been in agreement with much of what you have written over the past two years – trust building over time. Now, unfortunately I do feel that trust has been broken. Having an interest in the real estate market will naturally affect your bias.

    I understand your desire to get into the real estate game as there are some areas outside of Irvine which are at rental parity today (small places, less desirable areas). I hope you are able to help people who are looking in those areas.

    I will likely continue as a regular reader but with a much greater skepticism than before. Ultimately, I do hope there will be full disclosure when profiling any properties where you have a direct interest.

    I wish you good luck in the new IHB venture. Working with Shevy you could also offer your description critiquing skills to avoid IHB profiling properties as “turn key” with “dual master sweets” 🙂
    http://findmylandmark.com/2301-Crescent-Oak-a70836.html

    BTW, I doubt this property is actually rental parity. Rents at my nice IAC complex appear to be down 11% YoY with six weeks free.
62. . April 6, 2009 at 3:22 am

    There is no way I would list with you until you finally admit that California really is special.
63. bltserv April 6, 2009 at 4:39 am

    Here is a real Knife Catcher in Fontana.
    Take a look at the Price Graph.
    Looks like we have a bottom here. Good time to become a 909er in Fontucky. Hurry. Wont last.
    Its only lost 33% of its value this year.

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15112-Carnation-St-Fontana-CA-92336/17315634_zpid/
64. awgee April 6, 2009 at 5:40 am

    IR – I do not know which comments you deleted, but I will say that when I read personal attacks, it says nothing to me about the person being attacked, and it does speak volumes about the person doing the attacking.

    Many times I have had to catch myself and rephrase or completely rewrite something here in order to make my point less personal and more about the issue.
    1. Modguy April 6, 2009 at 8:03 am

       One of my comments was deleted, but I don’t think it was a personal “attack”… I replied to a post about one of Shevy’s listings and pointed out some verbiage that I thought was similar to the same stuff IR makes fun of everyday here.

       Maybe that fell into the “gray” area IR mentioned, or maybe it was because it was nested under another comment that got deleted? I don’t want to be banned (IHB is the third thing I read EVERY morning with my coffee), but I’m confused… IR makes fun of realtard listings all the time, but that’s not OK anymore if it’s Shevy’s listing? Maybe some new rules needed to posted?

       I’ll keep checking back, for now, but I’m very sad. It’s like losing an old friend (or maybe more like your friend telling you he wants to become a woman or a monk… Very confusing at first).
       1. irvinemommy April 6, 2009 at 9:28 pm

          It’s like losing an old friend (or maybe more like your friend telling you he wants to become a woman or a monk… Very confusing at first).

          lol…exactly.
65. ozymandias April 6, 2009 at 7:05 am

    “People are buying right now”

    I asked about that a few days ago, and mentioned that national media said houses were being “snapped up” and you said it was NRA propaganda.

    has something changed within the last week?
    1. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 10:13 pm

       There is a difference in tone between the two statements. “People are buying right now” is a neutral statement of fact; sales are not zero. Houses being “snapped up” implies an urgency because you might “miss your chance.” That is bullshit NAR propaganda.
66. ozymandias April 6, 2009 at 7:10 am

    scuze me NAR. too much NRA on the brain.

    and your comment was “Any media outlet talking about homes being “snapped up” is engaging in bullshit market cheerleading probably with the encouragement of the NAR.”

    so that made me wonder why you said people are buying now.

    good luck with your venture.
67. Chris April 6, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Hey IR, thanks for removing most of my “Astute Observations” that I’ve posted this morning. I guess my observations weren’t ‘astute’ enough.
68. Hizkel April 6, 2009 at 10:50 am

    As an outsider of anything RE, the comments above make me wonder if there is any way any self-respecting and honest person can make a living from RE brokerage. It is really sad what happened to RE brokerage and many other forms of brokerage. As an engineer, I am coming to believe that cutting the middle man from most of our life should be technology’s goal and will be a good thing.
69. cara April 6, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    The only way that such a thing could be consistent with the honesty of IHB is if the seller’s started selling to the lowest bidder rather than the highest. The huge amount of exposure will create bids and would be an excellent way of marketing a property by positioning it precisely 5% below comps and getting a sale immediately due to the high traffic. But while it seems to me like that would work, this also really really feels like selling out, IR. As a buyer’s agent Shevy provides no advantage given that your resources are free. As a seller’s agent, your team is a great advantage, but that means selling homes to people for more than they’re really worth…
70. cara April 6, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Two suggestions:

    1) Perhaps to avoid the vitriol and get a better feeling of the actual spread of opinions, you could make a poll? (or rather Zovall could)

    2) I’m confused as to the logic behind a cooperative agreement with only one realtor. How did you decide upon that, given that you won’t monetarily benefit from this arrangement? An alternative would be a list of personally vetted and recommended realtors, and a continuation of your weekend deals posts where you allow sellers who have priced competively to get some good free press.

    3) I think you need to focus more on the “patience grasshopper” aspect. In DC there are plenty of markets that are approaching or surpassing rental parity already. This will come to pass in Irvine as well. It’s just that with a much higher bubble, there’s a lot more unwinding to do and that will take time. I know people are asking you for help and they want to buy now, and it’s their money, but I think focusing on your role as the voice of reason is the right thing to do. The one-realtor-only setup is not conducise to your continued believability.
71. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    I have been deleting comments again this morning. I have officially reached my limit on what I will put up with.

    For all of you who believe my credibility is gone or if you are upset because I deleted some of your negative comments, please leave and do not come back. You will not be missed. I do not need to read some dramatic announcement about your departure, and if you provide one, you risk joining the people I have already banned.
    1. mav April 6, 2009 at 6:11 pm

       IrvineRenter,
       From my experience, if I put on my marketing hat for a second, you are much better off allowing the negative publicity. Shut off the drama at your own peril…. again this is just a suggestion. It’s your blog, you do what you want.
       1. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 7:36 pm

          You might be right, but I am am a human being, and so are my fellow compatriots. There is a limit to how much we are willing to put up with, and we have reached it. If I put up with the kind of bullshit that was going on in these comments just to make a few dollars, then I really have sold my soul.
    2. Kirk April 6, 2009 at 7:11 pm

       Without the rational panic against socialized medicine, we wouldn’t have the world’s greatest health care system. Without the clarity that comes from shouting down the “not a threat” propagandists, we wouldn’t be spreading freedom in Iraq. Without the anti-regulation screams from every real American, we wouldn’t have the strong economy we have today. Without the brave men and women taking to the streets to rail against homosexual marriage, we would all be gay homeless people.

       The free market of ideas that mobs enable provide the most efficient form of judgment in the world. It is this efficiency that makes us great. A country without mobs is a country without morality. I simply can’t imagine living in a world without morality and tremble in fear just by the thought of it.
72. bltserv April 6, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    I think IR has figured out his “Idea” was not very well received. Yes the mob has spoken.
    The same thing would happen with any group when you take the basic premise of an online community
    or any other community and suddenly align with the very business you have been so critical of for so very long. We can use the word hypocrisy. But its even worse when its motivated by a sudden shift towards monetary gain. Its the same basic human reaction in any business. Once you provide a good or service. In this case for free. Then you take that free service and attach a “Gotcha”. Its going to create a negative response. In sales once you set a price point. Its hard to go up in price without changing the product or offering
    in a significant way. In this case IR has gone in the other direction. Where he was providing a good or service for free to warn others of a poor investment strategy. He has now gone 180 degrees and aligned with the very enity he has demonized
    on a daily basis. So he has commited a double whammy. The service is now no longer perceived as free and he has changed the entire tone of the site. “The Seventh Circle of Real Estate Hell”.
    Advice for free. Is now a Irvine Housing Brokers.
    “I am in the RE Business and Want your listings”.

    I do understand his intentions. The site is getting hits and it should be making more money for his efforts. But this moved FAILED in my and many others opinions judging from the responses.

    Time will tell if the site maintains its popularity. But I would think not if its just another Realtor Blog trolling for leads.

    IR. I bet spending the weekend editing posts sucked too. It wasnt pretty.
    1. IrvineRenter April 6, 2009 at 7:33 pm

       “IR. I bet spending the weekend editing posts sucked too. It wasnt pretty.”

       No, it was not pretty. Zovall and I are in agreement that if we drive away some of the more vitriolic commenters, the blog will improve.

       If the move “failed,” so be it. Anyone who does not value the service we provide can go somewhere else, and that includes you.
       1. zubs April 6, 2009 at 11:54 pm

          in other words, “NO SOUP FOR YOU, NEXT!”
73. ozymandias April 6, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    ok everybody just read between the lines and lets try to remember the man is just trying to make a living.

    IR is an engineer for a commercial real estate development firm. As we know commercial real estate is in the midst of a collapse; a little different from the one residential suffered but a collapse nevertheless. there just isn’t much to engineer when nobody wants to develop anything commercial.

    so give the guy a break he’s trying to turn his hobby here into something to keep his rent paid something we would all do.
74. darms April 6, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    IR, although you apparently deleted a number of vitriolic or personal-attack comments, you were brave enough to leave up many of the critical ones! Good for you and thanks, your credibility just went up a notch in my book. And again, good luck w/your new venture.
75. LakeForestRenter April 6, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Larry has taught me to value properties. I’m sure he’s helped all the others here except the pros who show up to throw in their few cents. Does anyone really think that he can now pull the collective wool over our eyes and sell us Florida “beach front” properties??? We have him on record in 3 years of daily blogs and a book. If he deviates from his lectures and teachings hes done and i’m sure he knows it.

    Why is everyone freaking out like he just sold you personally(!!!) a 1M fixer upper with a 1% teaser? Don’t buy a house if you don’t want to, Larry with all his internet wiles can’t make you.

    Keep up the good work IR. We all want to buy a house (eventually) and if you can help people find houses they are happy with and can be a little more certain they are making a good decision i’m all for it. Everyone else:
    Cram it with walnuts, ugly.
76. cara April 6, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    a few more thoughts:

    I very much like your idea of sorting/culling/re-vamping the analysis posts. There’s a lot of interesting/useful stuff in there, but there are now so many that it’s hard to point people to the most relevant ones to their question.

    Given that I chose my future realtor from his blog (in NoVa) I do think this idea has great potential. Though I agree that this is the harder direction to transition as was pointed out above in the singer/actor comparison.

    I do think also that the blog needs some shaking up. I still come here daily, but no longer bother to read the comments. Why? because not much has really changed. So mixing things up for your own enjoyment is in and of itself a good idea at this stage.
77. idrnkurmlkshk April 6, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    Not all brokers are greedy bastards.

    BTW, for all you IHB broker haters; the fact that Larry is entering into a field that is getting financially destroyed speaks volumes. This act alone proves greed is NOT the motivation for their new venture.

    We need more honest people in this industry.
78. Chuck April 6, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    I held off posting this weekend because I wanted to think through all of this. Like most of you I read this blog religiously and really enjoy the information and humor provided by Larry each day. And my conclusion after thinking about this during the weekend is that I am going to continue to read this blog every day and expect nothing to change. If it does, and if I start to see too much marketing of this new venture or if I start to think that Larry has lost his objectivity then I will have a right to be critical. But based on everything I have seen from Larry these last few years I think this is highly doubtful. I’d like to think the rest of you will also give him a chance.

    As far as the new venture goes, I do think Larry has an opportunity to do things differently, so I am a bit disappointed that this announcement wasn’t tied to a new business model rather than a continuation of the existing commission schedule used by most agents. I think you may have missed a great opportunity here, and I think if the message had been “the real estate model is broken, and here is our solution” then you decision might been more favorably received. Hopefully we’ll see some more details from you on this as your business evolves.
79. kompeitou April 6, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    I was a bit shocked when I read this post, but I wish you the best of luck.

    If I can make a recommendation as to the headshots… pick a more warmer background. The grey color makes you look a little sterile bordering on sickly. Shevy has a nice headshot, warm tones, no shiny forehead, leaning slightly forward (as if interested in the viewer). When I see IR leaning back I think youre about to fall back. A jacket might be nicer too and a shirt that isnt flesh toned will help.

    Heck, might as well go to Shevy’s photographer and get the same setup, if youre partners it might help convey that with similar pictures.
80. Dakota April 6, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Irvine Renter

    This is my first comment.

    I just read your curent comments re your dissapointement with readers response.
    I have been reading this site due to the honest approach you have given to real estate.

    It is difficult to take negative comments from people whom you probably expected would support your new endeavor.

    Give it some time and hear your readers out. If your intentions are good and you continue with your approach to exposing the truth, they will come around.
81. kjfitz April 6, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    “A conflict of interest occurs when an individual or organization has an interest that might compromise their reliability. A conflict of interest exists even if no improper act results from it, and can create an appearance of impropriety that can undermine confidence in the conflicted individual or organization.”

    Since this site now has a vested interest in selling real estate how are its readers expected to trust the “spin” on the state of the market?
    1. Dakota April 6, 2009 at 10:45 pm

       Good question.
    2. IrvineRenter April 7, 2009 at 1:03 am

       If the last two years of my writings have not given everyone a well-tuned real estate bullshit detector, then they are without hope.
       1. Dakota April 7, 2009 at 1:09 am

          IrvineRenter

          I wish you the best. You have been a blessing for many people, including myself.
82. Formerbanker April 6, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    IR, good luck with your new endeavor. I am an avid reader of the blog and as such, was surprised by your choice to go into this business, based on reading your opinions about the industry for the last few years. I’ll spare you a repeat of what others have cautioned you about -i.e. seeing people lose objectivity despite best intentions when $$ is involved seems to be a common experience of your readers – that said, I have always known of honest people in the real estate business and there’s always room for more. Lastly, I am sure you’re familiar with RESPA Section 8 but given that you’re fairly well known (i.e. easy target for someone to report you if you violated it), it’s worth reading up on if you’ve not already to make sure any arrangement you have with an agent is compliant…again, best of luck to you.
83. T April 6, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    I’ve been reading the blog far more than I’d care to admit. And I’m a cynical b*st*rd, so read what I say with a pinch of salt – and if you feel the need to delete it go ahead.
    I don’t know this other guy Shevy, the young one that runs the numbers and that show whether a deal is a steal or not. His articles have been featured what feels like 5 minutes – apparently 3 weeks. He looks slick and photo shopped – just like all the other realtors. He comes along and suddenly things are monetize monetize…. Now whatever the guy was doing before, presumably he made money enough to support his family. So arguments justifying 6pc real estate commission just don’t hold sway with me. Yes, many other guys get that. Until recently we both agreed that that sucked – but now you want the 6pc too. Okay?
    I don’t think so.
    500K x 6pc = 30K – that’s a lot of loot. I find it hard to believe anyone involved in me buying a home can do work meriting 30K of what is essentially my money for that work. Now I have no idea – how many hours is worked for that 30K? How much goes into straight non-negotiable expenses – and how come we have to pay you so much more, than we pay in the UK? Don’t they work hard selling real estate in the UK too? How long does it take the average first time buyer to save that 30K, only so it can be paid to some realtors?

    You talk about Jim the realtor. Well I read his blog too. There’s a surprise, and as well as we may or may not erroneously feel we know you, Jim IS a realtor. Its what he does. He sells around 40 houses a year even in this crappy market. Probably makes tonnes of money on commission – but – you get to watch the videos. You can put on a facade only so far in a video. We hear a lot about his attitudes and how he steers people away from not buying – things they wouldn’t necessarily notice – like turning on the fountains to hide street noise. You can do an awful lot of editing behind text and photos. So we feel we know Jim, by means of the personna we hear in his videos. I was recently shocked to see how much older he looked in the LA times article than the photo on his website. One of the things about taking the videos is that you aren’t in them. I was surprised to learn that there is a family behind JtR and now an additional agent – to find bargains for his blog readers. Now something like 1/2 the buyers come to him via the blog. I think JtR is a good guy. I think you’re probably a good guy but I don’t know the guy you’ve gone into business, and I have difficulty marrying the picture of “we will show houses” and I do the blog, he does the houses” I think I didn’t quite understand how your business partner is especially different from any of the other guys selling stuff out there. I would certainly consider buying from JtR but I didn’t think you had a RE license – and didn’t think you were in the biz of selling houses. Now I’m just confused I guess.
    I’m also not sure whether I want to know more about Shevy. Maybe if you had a page for people interested in buying where if you were interested you go look at that stuff. JtR’s site very clearly separates all this stuff and may be worth you looking at – bubbleinfo.com I think.
    This blog has been a fascinating source of info on Irvine RE. You have majorly helped build a vibrant community. Just because there has been a falling out and harsh words said, I hope you won’t take the toys and stomp off. You did a wonderful job in helping demonstrate the insanity of the RE situation and I wish you well.
    1. IrvineRenter April 7, 2009 at 12:31 am

       I would like nothing more than to offer lower commissions. The 6% structure does nothing other than support more realtors. The 2% structure in the UK has far fewer realtors competing for what is available. No matter how you slice it, people need to be able to make a living doing it, or they won’t do it. Perhaps if we get enough volume, we will lower commissions. In the meantime, if our service is not a match for your needs, don’t use us. Nobody is forcing you. This is a service offering, nothing more.
84. sunsetbeachguy April 6, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    After reading this thread, for the first time ever, I agree with Shockg and the other perma bulls from Lansner’s blog.

    I did keyboard to keyboard battles with Pat V. at Lansner’s blog.

    The housing bear community (not all but most) seem to be bitter and spiteful.
85. Carnap April 7, 2009 at 1:29 am

    Trying to ban people that hurt your little-ego is counterproductive. There is no way to ban someone over the internet.
    1. IrvineRenter April 7, 2009 at 3:08 am

       Actually, there is. If telling people to get lost is not sufficient, I can delete every one of their comments and ban every IP address they post from. It is easier than you might think.
       1. observer April 7, 2009 at 8:46 am

          Larry, you are absolutely correct. I lived in China for three years so I’m quite familiar with censorship, and it is a simple matter for you to delete comments, block communications and essentially cancel our visas and send us back to America if we dare challenge you or any of your cadres. Authoritarian leadership is like that and if we choose to live in a country (or participate in a community/blog) that is authoritarian we have to accept the censorship. So you are correct, you can do this, and if we don’t like it we can go somewhere else (thank God we’re only ‘expats’ here and not ‘citizens’ who are sent to prison instead of merely being banished!).

          I’d like to use your expertise when the market is right to buy again, but I’m afraid that if I said anything at all that you considered negative I would be unceremoniously told to take my business somewhere else, resulting in a waste of time for both of us. The broker I used when I sold my house in 2005 was very open to my questions and my suggestions, but after reading some of your posts here I think there would be a very great possibility that my questions, comments, suggestions, et al would be interpreted by you as criticism. When the time comes for me to buy I’ll be using the same broker who sold my house a few years ago. (Incidentally, his commission was 4.5%, reduced to 4% because he also represented the buyer — he did a great job, he actually advertised and found a buyer for us through his own efforts rather than just sitting back and waiting for a buyer’s agent to bring a buyer to him).
86. irvine_home_owner April 7, 2009 at 2:11 am

    Maybe, to make this IHB the new way to do real estate and to give people more confidence… you should use your own business model from the get go:

    https://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/the-new-real-estate-sales-business-model/

    Don’t just sing it… bring it!! (just sayin’).
    1. IrvineRenter April 7, 2009 at 3:11 am

       We are working out the details on program offerings to do that. There are ways to make the price match the level of service. I have not forgotten what I wrote.
       1. irvine_home_owner April 8, 2009 at 2:08 am

          Since not everyone is a member of or reads the forums, I’ll post this here:

          https://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewreply/104009/

          —

          [Removed for now -zovall]

          In my work as a consultant, we go on a billable hours basis. Everyone who works gets paid for the work they do. In realty it is different. You often work without getting paid, so you play the lottery hoping you get paid enough to compensate you for your time when you make a commission. Ultimately, people must get paid for what they do, or they will not do it. Altruism is easier for the independently wealthy. Shevy is not. The outline above is an attempt to synthesize the two approaches.

          The retainer structure is the least expensive. It is ideal for someone who knows they are going to buy within one year, does most of their own research, and only needs a realtor to submit a bid. Our offer would be less expensive than Redfin

          The non-retainer structure is at the next level. It is more expensive than Redfin but the same cost as Zip Realty. It has the value-added feature of more detailed value analysis. It is designed for people who are probably going to buy, do most of their own research, but do not want to commit money to the transaction.

          The typical commission is for everyone else who wants to take their time and look at a large number of properties.

          —

          I have a question… since your decision to create the new IHB was based on valuations of homes outside of Irvine… why market to an Irvine-centric audience?

          Does this signal a prediction by you that the Irvine housing market will experience a nice buy/sell opportunity within the next 2 years?
87. Naomi Perera April 7, 2009 at 4:14 am

    Long time lurker (since ’06). I don’t really see what precisely is the “inherent conflict of interest” that everyone is so worried about. The type of analysis that IR provides is predicated in easily verifiable numbers. Don’t trust whether a property is at rental parity or not? Check Craig’s List for rental #s. Don’t trust whether a house for living in (vs. renting out) is well priced? Check Craig’s list rentals, multiply rent for a similar property by 160 and add 10% This isn’t that hard.

    But even aside from my comment above, I simply cannot believe how quickly some of the commentators above started questioning IR’s integrity. Doesn’t this blog stand in direct contradiction?! Don’t the large number of commentators who have thanked IR for his good advice mean something?! Shame on all those people who would impute IR’s good character. This blog’s very DNA demonstrates IR’s core honesty. How sad that people can doubt so quickly

    IR–if your business ever expands nationwide to Denver CO (& I hope it does), I will hire you in heart beat.
88. Shadax April 7, 2009 at 4:38 am

    For starters, I enjoy this blog AND the forums…and I have for a long time. I think IR has done a lot of people a lot of good with them. I read the blog every morning when I get to work and check the forums a 1-2 times per day.

    I’m a little skeptical about the choice in realtor. I have found that IrvineRealtor has been most helpful on the forums. But who knows what happened behind the scenes? I mean, maybe IR2 didn’t want to be apart of this. Maybe he didn’t want to share commission. Maybe he didn’t want to give up any control over his own dealings. There are a million reasons. I hope IHB succeeds, but only if you somehow maintain your objectivity and steer people only in the right direction.. I mean are you going to be able to say “This property is far above fundamentals and will continue to go in that direction over the next XX years…bad time to buy it” to an eager, uninformed buyer? I hope so.

    Anyway, these are your forums and well, now your business. You should be able to do whatever you want with them, for better or for worse. You aren’t beholden to your old readers any more than they are beholden to you. If they don’t like you or what you do with the site, they can read any of the other sites around. If you don’t like them, you can do what you have been doing. The only problem I see is asking people to sound off in the comments and then deleting/banning them because of what they said. I mean… That’s more like “Criticize if you want…but at your own risk!” I don’t know. Maybe e-mailing you about it would have made it a little less mob-like in here. It’s easy to fear change and the unknown… I have seen HARSH criticism of realtors on this blog AND the forums so it’s hard to imagine what could have been said…but I didn’t read them all, so I don’t have all of the information.

    Anyway, here’s to hoping IHB as I know it does not change for the worse. But as IR stated many times already, if I don’t like it, I’ll unceremoniously stop reading…and life for all concerned will go on.
89. Trooper April 7, 2009 at 5:20 am

    This is just wrong. There. I said it.
90. ICNIC April 7, 2009 at 11:21 am

    hi IR,
    It is time for me to speak.
    I read you for quite a while now. Since summer I guess. My English is not native, (school-English) and many of the names you use or phrases in the blog I do not follow all the way, but I feel I made progress in understanding the American way of life thanks to you. The move to the area in these difficult times was unevitable. We follow the source of income, and Irvine is absoloutly a desired place if one can affored it.

    So I read you every night, before going to sleep, having 9 hours difference betwee us. I kept thinking to my self – I wish I had known you, had the chance to ask for advice, but from my place in Europe I couldn’t join you on the evening you came public, I couldn’t come for the forum’s meetings, and for the publication of your book.

    The moving takes a lot of energy. for 2 month I had no time for hust reading. Was busy in finding the right school for the kids, and the right house to rent. 10 days ago we entered the house, and yesterday I thought it was time to check on you guys again. And what a thread did I find. It was late at night, I read it all, and had no energy to react. I wouldn’t have entered now as well, but I read what you wrote today about this thred, and I felt I must dive in to congretulate you and tell you how I feel. I am one of those “shadows”….
    You seem to be a honest person, and I am glad that you are going to actualy be available for advising in real life and not only on a virtual blog.
    It is pity it isn’t personaly you, but I hope we will be able to trust your partner.
    As to your advise, we are not going to buy in the near future, but we keep a close eye on the market.
    As to the remarks you recieved here –
    1. Comissions ARE high, and shouldn’t be taken as pecentage of the deal, but as a fixed rate.
    2. Your photo does change a lot the image I had of you. You said people want to see the face behind the buisness. True, but, is this really you? The blouse and tie and all that jazz… is that really the guy behind this blog? I can hardly believe it. Why not just a pict of you, with your lovely rented home at the background?
    3. i am glad you stoke out tje really mean and personal responds – ther is no place here for such, but you must be able to understand the wory of some of them – how can the blog be objective if he is trying to sell properties? for some reasonn I do believe you will tell your buyers the truth as you see it. I hope your partner will do the same, because, if I got ot right, he is the one we will contact in few months.

    I wish you all the best, I hope to be able to read your honest and wise point pf view also in the future, and I am sure we will meet one day.

    ICNIC – now an Irvine-Renter myself.
91. Derek Z. April 7, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Shevy’s ‘Blue Steel’ is piercing my soul…
92. Cary Resident April 7, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    Larry,

    This seems to be a transition point for you. I want to wish you well and say that I have got so much out of your knowledge and professional handling of IHB. Although I live in Cary, NC my sister-in-law lives in Fullerton, and that was enough of a connection for me to stick with this site since 2007. I also shared the sentiment that residential real estate was vastly inflated.
    A year or so ago there was an astute observation by someone responding to an attack on you. The attack was againstIrvine Realtor. This resulted in a confusted defense from the responder. All the same, in coming to your defense, the responder said that your wisdom was beyond question and would be studied for years to come.
    I echo that sentiment. Best of luck.
    (I work in heavy construction. From time to time I’ve done big commercial RE jobs, but fortunately my skill set allows me to transfer to the public works sector. I am glad I am not in Commercial RE right now. I was impressed by your description of your job on your radio interview. You know your stuff. I hope this venture is a success for you. All the best.)
93. js April 8, 2009 at 8:42 am

    Where is the first listing?

    We can’t wait to analyze the bejesus out of it…

    Better not make any spelling errors!
    1. Bitter Renter April 8, 2009 at 9:06 am

       Analyze at your own risk. IR has made it clear that any criticism of Irvine Housing Brokers listings will get your comments deleted and may get you banned.

       You’ll need to go to another blog or forum if you want to critique the IHB listings.

Comments are closed.