Irvine Housing Blog

The reference to “tot lots” and young families makes me wonder how many families with small children (or those hoping to have children) can afford a place in this neighborhood.  Maybe it is a sign of how much things have changed - that when this neighborhood was first built it was designed as a place for starter homes.  Now, however, I doubt that many families “starting out” can afford a place here.
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Bill Jones,

The problem you describe is a real concern for Irvine. Many families who bought homes years ago ended up staying. The aging of Irvine has already prompted the Irvine Unified School District to put two of its elementary schools up for sale. They no longer believe enrollments will rebound to historic levels. With the price rally over the last 5 years very few young families can afford Irvine.

IrvineRenter,

I think you mentioned Vista Verde elementary in a previous post.  Which is the other school you are talking about that is up for sale?

What does this mean for a child that was supposed to go to Vista Verde?  Do you know where they will go- Turtle Rock/Bonita Canyon?

I rent a home in Woodbridge, and it does concern me that I don’t see any kids.  I would say the majority of people are in their 50’s- far from retirement, and probably never moving either.

IrvineRenter -

I love the idea of featuring different Irvine neighborhoods (pros and cons to each).  Thanks for all the time you put into this blog - a lot of people are benefiting from it.

JoonB,

The other school is Alderwood in Woodbridge. Your observations are backed up by the demographic studies.

I don’t know where these students will go. I imagine they will be sent to the nearest elementary.

Thomas,

Thank you, perhaps we can get some reader participation as well. Anyone who wants to submit photos or a write up about their neighborhood will be welcome.

IR,

Really good stuff, and a great (potential) series of posts.

I have a theory that the Tax Code change that caused the James Irvine Foundation to have to sell The Irvine Company was very detrimental to the future planning of the City.  Once private investors became involved, the focus was more on maximizing profit than on creating a great community.

See, e.g., http://www.irvine.org/about_irvine/history.shtml

I also suspect that changing demographics may also have something to do with the loss of neighborhood public space.  There are certain communities of people who would likely find the “collective backyard” concept (or collective anything) anathema.

When I was a kid, there were 15 or so of us all the same age that would get together and play in our front yards.  That seems to have gone the way of the dodo.  Very sad.

I just rented a house near Meadow elementary in Woodbridge.  My family arrives next month.  I saw the parks, playgrounds, schools, pools, etc… and assumed there were a ton of kids.  I haven’t spent much time there yet, so I honestly don’t know - can anyone say if there is a kid deficit in that area?  If so, I need to start managing expectations.

We’re coming from an urban environment, but we had four families with children on just our block.  I would hate to move to the suburbs and find fewer children.  That would really suck.

Aaron-

I live in Woodbridge and live on the north side.  I don’t see many kids where i am (mine are 3 and 5).  However, I see that Meadow Creek elementary is near the South Lake- I’ve been told by realtors that Meadow Park is very popular and that “Emerald” Street is the place to be (where there are kids in Woodbridge.)  I think you might have better luck than me!

good luck with your move

IrvineRenter,

as a newcomer to Irvine (late 2003), i very much appreciate your writeup.  please keep them coming!

Aaron - you may want to drive around the newer parts of irvine (woodbury, quail hill, etc.).  we live in quail hill and find an abundance of kids, probably because the neighborhood didn’t exist before, ummm, ‘02 or ‘03.

EvaLSeraphim - thanks for your reply in the other thread…methinks the old way of hanging out with friends have gone away for good.  when i went to college in the late 80s we would never stay in on fri/sat nights.  nowadays many college kids stay in on weekend nites just to be on the computer all nite.  when we lived in manhattan opposite an NYU dorm, i couldn’t believe how many people stayed in on weekends.

you failed to mention that Park West (Irvine’s only ghetto) is located at the corner of Michelson and Culver.  it’s not pretty, it’s not safe and it’s getting worse every year!

Hi IrvineRenter!!!

Nice blog.  Visited before but haven’t posted ‘til now.

I find it interesting that you’re pretty bearish on housing prices despite not citing any of the many huge issues facing us besides housing itself.  I’m extremely bearish, as you no doubt have noted from my posts at HBB.

Regarding University Park, I had relatives living there for a long time.  Life there appeared almost idyllic for a kid visiting from out-of-state, which is why I ultimately ended up moving to California.  Still looks as nice, but the neighborhood does seem dead compared to my youth when kids were everywhere and the activity centers were always jumping.  Nice memories…

JoonB - Meadow Park is throwing distance.  I feel better.  Thanks!

I don’t think park west is a ghetto, its not THAT bad. Any crime/murder in irvine is huge it seems, even if it was just a random incident of someone passing thru the city. I think the price of rent in that area keeps out most of the ghetto implications.

Irvine Renter…I can feel your palpable emotions on this subject.  You want to own a home for your family in Irvine, and did a great job describing one such area and *why* you want to own a home and set down some roots for your family there.  I can also tell your sense of frustration with housing prices, and how those prices (and the shenanigans that led to them) are keeping you and your family from realizing a dream.

Don’t give up hope.  Housing prices will come down.  Forget all the facts and graphs showing that they “have” to come down (although I’m in the camp that agrees they “have” to), as a simple realization will make it clear: Housing goes through up cycles and down cycles, always has and always will.  It will not go up forever.  And, conversely, once it is declining, it won’t go down forever.  There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the subject, but that’s is the simple truth.

Also, folks in the comments are noting the aging of Irvine.  That is fact.  I grew up in Irvine my entire life - elementary and high school.  My parents - in their 50s - still live in Irvine.  I am now part of a “young family”, and we could not afford to buy our home in Irvine when we starting looking back in 2001-2002.

Although many folks here have said Ladera Ranch gives them the “creeps”, that is where we bought, and we love it.  We will never trade it in for Irvine.  In 2002, Ladera was vastly cheaper than most other parts of Orange County, primarily because there was concern about the airport putting airplanes right over it. 

As a result, Ladera is a magnet for young families.  Our street is what I remember growing up as a kid.  There our over 20 young kids just on our street alone, and our little 3 year old has 5 or 6 kids within just a few houses of ours that are her age and will be going to school with her when that time comes.  And, our previous home in Ladera was no different, nor are those of our friends - there are tons of young families in Ladera; much, much more than I see when visiting my parents’ place in Woodbridge.

Ladera also has the interior trails and pocket parks, tot lots, pools/clubhouses, etc. - just like your post here is extolling.  It also has a full water park with slides, etc., a skate park, kid water play parks at most pools, etc.  I’m not sure why folks got the creeps out in Ladera, but I hope it wasn’t us!

And, I should close by pointing out that Irvine Renter’s day is coming soon.  I work in the mortgage default industry, and there is total carnage right now.  Folks are not making their hous payments, and that will lead to increased downward pressure on pricing.  Have patience!

IR, nice pictures! Looks like you’re advertising for the homes in Irvine

I think Irvine is like “Plasantville”, the movie.

“Pleasantville” sorry for the mispelling.

Irvine, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.

IR, I know the area you’re talking about and agree.  As you mentioned, the newer areas aren’t quite like that.  IMHO, the best parts of Irvine are the older neighborhoods.  The layout is better, the density is lower.

Moped, interesting take on Ladera, I know that was the original intention, my primary memory from the outside is lotteries for the right to buy and prices rocketing through the roof.  Oh, and mello-roos.

Howdy,

Jes a lookin’ in from Fresno over the innernet, and it’s lookin’ mighty-invitin’ down there in irvine, next to that mighty big blue pond and all.  In fact, me and my clan is a thinkin’ of moving down, since our shack went and got covered up by the dust bowl cloud!  So I’s a loaden’ up the waggon right now with the kidds and vittles, and we’re gonna be buyin once the FEMA gubment money comes in and this here housing crash gets to commencin’ underway.

Thanks kindly future neighbors,

Jethro

My wife & I just drove over to Sand Canyon and Irvine blvd (I think they call this East Woodbury) where they have the new Trader Joes, Home Depot, Carls Jr, Starbucks, Chik Filet, Panera Bread, and other places in the works.  I heard a new Jalapenos mexican restaurant opens up over there.  Such a nice area, it sure would be nice to buy around there maybe in 2-3 years minimum.  I agree Irvine is a great area to live.  Good luck to you all in your plans to buy here.

When they built these older neighborhoods in Irvine, they had to sell the concept.  There was nothing here.  This is why the older areas are much less dense and of higher quality.  Now that the concept of Irvine is sold, they can put up crap and people still flock to it (well they did until now).

We have friends in Ladera.  Nice place - even though it does indeed give me the creeps.  It reminds me of Irvine in the early 80s in demographics with all of the young families.  We are a young family with a 2 year old and another on the way, but as nice as Ladera is, we are stying in Irvine.  My wife and I both work in Irvine, I grew up here, and my parents are here.  I can’t leave that.  Also, even though we have kids, it actually prefer the quieter neighborhoods without them

Plenty of cheap rentals around.  Who cares about the silly house prices here for now?  It will crash hard eventually.

I lived in Northwood for 14 years and never saw a lot of kids outside playing. At Halloween we might see 15-25.

I moved to Oak Creek at Jeffrey and Alton about a year ago and still don’t see many kids. I started to notice a lot of decorations in the windows and thought I should prepare for an invasion.

Last Halloween we had over 200 kids that came to the door. It was unbelievable. Thank goodness I shop at Costco. I used everything that I had left in the house (microwave popcorn was a smash hit.)

I guess everyone locks up the kids during the day.

P.S. Great quality pictures IR.

I grew up in Irvine during the 80s and 90s, and it was quite a different place than it is today. In the neighborhood where I grew up there used to be kids everywhere, but today, very few. I know that some of the newer neighborhoods seem to have more young families, but still doesn’t appear to be in the large numbers it was when I grew up. But the parents seem older than my parents were back in the day - probably had to save up for a while to afford living here. (And I know I’m in this boat; I can afford nothing in the area.)

There was a class I took at UC Irvine that talked about the history of urban development and there were a few lectures about Orange County, specifically Irvine. Originally it was going to be a university town - the city was to be completely centered around the college. But then the master planned community concept really took over and it was decided that Irvine would be this way.

I miss the orange groves that used to be all around town. Orange blossoms are quite possibly one of the best smells in the entire world.

IrvineRenter,

Can I ask that you profile Turtle Rock next time?  I lived there from 2003 until Fall of last year, when I sold my house (thank goodness).  I love the neighborhood to pieces, and my wife and I are considering moving back there when the prices fall.

The best part about Turtle Rock is the walking.  Incredible walks right out your front door.  And Mason Park is walking distance too… my dogs LOVE Turtle Rock.

I think one reason why you don’t see many kids playing outside is the growth of Asian immigrants to Irvine.  Usually those kids are busy with other activities - like piano lessons, SAT prep courses at age 9, Chinese school on Saturday.  I took a computer class at IVC and there were 12 year olds in my class.  I know when I was a kid there were several families from Taiwan in my neighborhood and their kids were never allowed to play outside with the rest of the kids.

On another subject, I don’t think Irvine was ever going to be a “university town” with the way the Irvine Company controlled all of the land.  All of the bland sameness that results from thier high lease of retail space is pathetic.  It’s interesting to see how different the shopping centers that aren’t managed by the Irvine Company are in comparison.

I love this post, absolutely love it!  I had hoped to do something like this, featuring a different neighborhood on my home page every few weeks, but have not kept up with it as well as I hoped.  You have inspired me to get back into it.

This is a great service to our readers, who are deciding where to buy.

If one requires a meal out in Irvine, one must eat at an approved chain restaurant. No tasty Mom n’ Pop diners allowed!

Nice feature on the Uni area. We also rent in Irvine - Woodbridge. We moved here for the school district and amenities that Woodbridge and Irvine offers. I have to agree with “Danny Bonaduce” about the restaurants. I am surprised anyone can afford to buy a home in Irvine in the newer parts of town - Mello Roos anyone?

Thanks for the write up of my “home town”.  I was among the first wave of kids to grow up in University Village.  I was born in 1969 and my parents bought a brand-new house on Lancewood Way in 1970.  It was definitely a great place to be a kid: not just the planned paths and parks, but all the alleyways, greenbelts and a few secret “through-the-hedge” clearings all became our playground.  I learned to swim at the community pools, and still miss them (having several to choose from was great)!  My father taught at UCI, my mom was a graduate student and part-time high-school teacher, and together they could just afford the place, which they bought for around $30,000.  Today Zillow estimates its value at around $740,000!  That works out to a sustained appreciation rate of over 9% for almost 4 decades, a period in which median incomes have barely beaten inflation.  It makes me genuinely sad to see this market priced out of the range of the young middle-class families it was designed for, perhaps one happy side-effect of the coming implosion will be making these areas affordable again.