Lenders are responsible for the bad borrowers they create

Jan 25th, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by EconE
2011-01-25 05:38 AM

Every time I start feeling sorry for a homedebtor, all I have to do is watch this episode of ‘My House Is Worth WHAT?’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqSd3-nBFU

And then I go to zillow, and look at the birdseye view to remind myself that she DID get the new swimming pool and the larger boat.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2290-Bayview-Ln-North-Miami-FL-33181/43977708_zpid/

She probably has a $1,000,000 morgage now yet a NEW home down the street sold this year for $405,000.

Astute Observation by EconE
2011-01-25 05:41 AM

Abbreviated version of the youtube video…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQtBzq7CdI&NR=1

No need to really watch the whole episode.

Astute Observation by no name maddox
2011-01-25 01:36 PM

The economics of banking is counterfeiting. We have been deceived into thinking that we were lent other depositor’s deposited funds. Banksters cause us to think that if we do not pay back those funds, the bank 16 and its depositors will be out the cash. Remember, all you borrowed was monetized credit, which your signature created – probably about $100,000.00 – 10% of which they extended back to you. You lent yourself the funds. Why are you paying back anyone? Ask a banker about this, as I did, and watch him stop breathing.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-01-25 07:42 AM

Well they didn’t spend the money on remodeling that’s for sure.  Welcome to Irvine, time to buy your $600K fixer.

What did they spend the money on?
College educations paid in full for their kids?
A business that still has revenue and equity?
Gold?
A home somewhere else paid for 100% cash?

It’s clear they didn’t spend a dime on life comforts.

Astute Observation by Geotpf
2011-01-25 08:02 AM

This is not a fixer.  People use that term too frequently.  It is somewhat out of date and has mismatching, older, low end (non-stainless) appliances, but I bet they all work.  There are no broken windows.  There is no leaky roof.  All the interior walls are intact.  There is a toliet and a sink.  The kitchen cabinets are all there with all doors and drawers.

Now, admittedly, maybe you couldn’t hear me over the sound of the 5 freeway in the backyard.  I SAID, MAYBE YOU COULDN’T HEAR ME OVER THE SOUND OF THE 5 FREEWAY THE BACKYARD.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-01-25 08:12 AM

In Irvine or anywhere a house like this would cost $600K, it’s definitely a fixer.

In areas where this house would cost $150K, I’d agree, it would not be a fixer.  Keep the head down and finish the blue collar midwest life.

Astute Observation by Alan
2011-01-25 10:37 AM

PR is right - as an affordable starter home for a lower middle class young family, it is really ok. For anyone who can actually afford a $600k house, it is badly lacking in just about everything beyond the non-leaking roof and intact walls and windows.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-01-25 10:42 AM

Excellent point PR
Trophy homes located in the quality areas of Irvine still command a premium.
In addition, there’s fierce competition among buyers looking to acquire a quality residence.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-01-25 10:55 AM

Nobody disputes that Irvine homes command a premium. That is evident in both rental rates and sale prices. The point in dispute is whether or not the resale house prices are inflated beyond what a premium should deliver. They are.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-01-25 11:26 AM

My point is that the market, both buyers and sellers dictate whether a premium or the extent of a premium is paid

It seems to me that there are plenty of buyers out there willing and able to what you term as “over pay” for an Irvine home.

When a quality home is undervalued or miss priced it most often results in a competitive bidding war, multiple all cash offers etc…

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-01-25 11:39 AM

How long will it take IR to acknowledge this?  It took him 2 years to acknowledge the Irvine price increases as a bear market rally.  I expect by 2013 he’ll start acknowledge the continued high median down payments in Irvine, all cash multiple offers, TIC new building success stories in the heart of the greatest recession.. You can’t make this stuff up, it’s real.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-01-25 12:20 PM

“How long will it take IR to acknowledge this?”

Who cares what I do or do not acknowledge? The activity speaks for itself.

I point out the problems whereas you regurgitate Irvine Company sales points.

I am trying to figure out what is likely to happen to house prices whereas you are talking up the market in hopes of making your property value go up. It’s the main reason you have little or no credibility here.

Astute Observation by bigmoneysalsa
2011-01-25 01:00 PM

I can’t believe that how badly some people are still missing the point here.

The fact that Irvine homes command a premium is not interesting. It’s obvious and not at all in dispute (despite your implication). The reasons for it are clear; there is nothing unusual about it that demands an explanation. It’s about as big a mystery as the fact that gold commands a premium over silver.

However, there IS something about Irvine home prices that is interesting and demands an explanation. It is this: the ratio of Irvine home prices to Irvine rents is quite high, both from a historical point of view and in comparison to many other regions of Southern California and the US. THAT, my friends, is what all the fuss is about.

Now, IrvineRenter and others are doing their best to explain this interesting circumstance. Those who are bullish on Irvine seem to be just ignoring it. I haven’t seen one Irvine bull offer up a halfway sensible explanation for what’s going on. Instead they just constuct a straw-man argument where they imply that the bears are somehow disputing that Irvine homes should cost more, then smugly refute it. Fail.

Astute Observation by gepetoh
2011-01-25 01:16 PM

That about explains it.  Very to-the-point, Bigmoney.

Astute Observation by Swiller
2011-01-25 01:40 PM

I think PR has cedibility, after all, he isn’t getting people to invest their cash in Las Detroit.

I’m MUCH more likely to give credibility to the person who isn’t looking to pick my pockets for business…..voluntary or not, I know what the goal is.

Astute Observation by Swiller
2011-01-25 01:43 PM

Can someone come up with the number of apartments available in Irvine? Can someone THEN come up with the number of TIC controlled apartments?

You will probably find that ratio absurdly high. And you wonder why rents are so high in Irvine when the rents are controlled/manipulated by ....the IRVINE company. (TIC)

Wow, what a surprise, the TIC extracts as much cash as it can from its host. SPOON!!!!

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-01-25 02:05 PM

I have no credibility?  My credibility increases every time people respond to my post with emotional nonsense.

After all I’m not trying to sell anything, I have nothing to gain at all.  In fact, if anything I’d benefit from lower prices.

Your the one who has been trying desperately to sell something and turn this blog into money.  If you are looking for someone who has vested interest, and who has lost credibility you need to look somewhere else.  It’s more difficult to recognize.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-01-25 02:54 PM

Yeah, those 2010 New Home Collection sales are just TIC fluff points
Why not address what’s really going on?
Trigger happy FCBs out there scooping up properties.
For every one “opportunity” there’s 40 people lined up to bid on it.

Astute Observation by bigmoneysalsa
2011-01-25 03:13 PM

I guarentee you that in 2007 and 2008 there were homes in Riverside County, Las Vegas, South Florida, etc that were well priced and got many bids. It didn’t mean that prices in those markets weren’t declining.

Astute Observation by awgee
2011-01-25 08:48 PM

PR - Determine your credibility by seeing how many people you can get to invest in your idea, as if you had any.  Any being ideas or credibility.

IR has investors and has successfully turned this blog into income.  And you ... well, about the only thing you have done is throw rocks from the behind a fence where no one can see you and no one cares.

Astute Observation by Pwned
2011-01-25 10:54 AM

Looking at the photos it would appear the typical Irvinite would want to gut the place, redo kitchen/baths, fixtures, doors, new carpet etc. Definitely a fixer, but for the Irvine premium price.

Astute Observation by Nicholas
2011-01-25 04:12 PM

@Planet Reality:  You’re right, because everyone who lives in the Midwest makes a living working a physical labor job.

Dumbass.

Astute Observation by ENM
2011-01-25 08:25 AM

IR—good analysis, but you let the Fed off the hook. Your key statement is “Investors demanded bad loans because the loans were often packaged into securities given AAA ratings.” It would be far more accurate to say “Investors demanded high yield “safe” loans because the Federal Reserve ZIRP destroyed the value of their savings. And people wanted to buy homes because ZIRP made expensive homes appear affordable”

The Fed should have know what responsible, sustainable monetary policy should look like, so they deserve 50%. ZIRP made the whole thing happen.

Bankers deserve 40% because the should know what a viable 30 year home loan looks like. They clearly failed to do their job.

Borrows deserve 10%—not because they are innocent (they are clearly not), but because they were doing what the Fed and Bankers enabled them to do. Borrowers shouldn’t be expected to know what a viable loan looks like. Bankers were supposed to be the experts here.

Astute Observation by tazman
2011-01-25 09:19 AM

ENM said

“Borrowers shouldn’t be expected to know what a viable loan looks like.”

I’m flying the bullshit flag on that one!  Does anyone really believe that someone making $30k year doesn’t know they can’t afford a $800k mortgage?  Of course they do…they might not “know” that anything above a 31% DTI is approaching insolvency, but the profligate spending on houses…c’mon.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-01-25 10:10 AM

People who give money out are expected to be responsible.  It’s their fiduciary responsibility.

People who borrow money are expected to be irresponsible.  There is an assumed default rate going into that relationship.

Human behavior is very easy to predict.  If you give most people access to life comforts with no barriers, they will take those comforts.  This is no different than a mouse going after the cheese in a mouse trap.  The sailor gets off in a port town hits the bars and impregnates the local port women.  Sure it’s irresponsible but it’s easy to predict.

The known irresponsible did exactly what the responsible should expect them to do.  Now the responsible need to play by the rules.  The banks were supposed to be responsible but that weren’t.  Now the responsible tax payers pay.  Again very easy to predict.

Astute Observation by ENM
2011-01-25 10:57 AM

I’ll return the favor.

While your claim is certainly true, it’s the exception not the rule. The housing crisis wasn’t caused by people making $30K thinking they could handle $800K mortgages.

None of the case studies in IHB are like that. Rather, most of the time people buy homes they could have reasonably expected to afford, then slowly went ponzi afterward.

The global financial system should not be based on the financial IQ of the average American.

Astute Observation by gepetoh
2011-01-25 01:32 PM

Wait, I disagree, the global financial system SHOULD be based on the financial IQ of the average.  After all, they are the ones who have to live it.  It just shouldn’t be RUN by the average.  But then, those who are above the average - and in fact run the system - are predominantly interested in taking advantage of their “gift”... and the average.

Astute Observation by no name maddox
2011-01-25 01:41 PM

If a counterfeiter counterfeits $$$ and lends it to us, do we have any moral or legal obligation to repay the loan? NO ! The law (statute) says counterfeiting is illegal and that we do not have to repay the counterfeiter. But the banksters are careful. The bank’s own published manual claims, “Money does not have to be issued by the government or be in any special form. Money is anything that can be sold for cash and which the banks accept as money”. Aren’t they a riot?
The story about Dan Mahowney who allegedly defrauded the bank out of several million $$$ and also the story about Frank Abegnale in his book Catch Me If You Can never took anyone else’s cash. Dan and Frank signed for every note they received. They created the funds themselves. No one lost any $$$, neither the investors in Mahowney’s case nor Pan Am employees in Abegnale’s case. I’ll bet to this day, both these
men think that they did something illegal. Yet, not one living soul lost any $$$ to either of them. The corporate entities pretended theft and had them punished in order to preserve and perpetuate the scam.

When you purchase something from a shop and then return it, why are they so intent on getting back
your receipt? No, not to prove you paid for it, because you can’t pay for anything. This receipt is the evidence of exchange. The goods don’t matter, any more than the principal on a ‘loan’ matters. All they want is the interest. Look at your minimum payment due on your credit card statement; its only the interest. The ‘loan’ doesn’t exist. They MUST pay the IMF the interest on the loan.

Astute Observation by WTF Finance
2011-01-25 11:58 PM

great reply, you are absolutely correct that the Fed has much of the blame to take. But when you give 50% to the Fed, 40% to the Bankers, and 10% to the borrowers you have nothing left for the Government…

Fannie, Freddie and all the bullshit everybody-deserves-a-home-policies have much to do with it as well.

In summary, all anti-free market policies are to blame.

Astute Observation by no name maddox
2011-01-25 08:44 AM

The minions can trick most of the people who go to court. When I say that they do not want us to go to court, I mean they do not want US––those of us who are onto them––to go to court because we can expose their fraud, and so ends their deceit. By our not going to court, then “dishonour, delinquent, and incompetent” apply and this allows them to charge the trust and treat us as the slaves we really are, due to the cestui que vie trust (CQV). By going to court, we are liable to fall for the deceit, fraud, and entrapment. Either way, they make us liable for the charge. Sending an EDP, on the certified copy of the birth certificate, to Vital Statistics, prior to the court date, ought to make the case disappear. The Registrar will be bound to notify any agency which has charged the CQV trust.

Sending an EDP, on the certified copy of the birth certificate, to Vital Statistics, prior to the court date, ought to make the case disappear. The Registrar will be bound to notify any agency which has charged the CQV trust. After finding our Divine Trust ID # http://globe-union.org/home.asp , if, in court, we are asked for our name, remember that this reveals the built-in presumption that we are a slave. If we answer to the Name, then we have admitted to being a slave. We are to answer, “I am Trust Recipient #……-……-……, also known as the form, [Name]. I’ve advised the Registrar of Vital Statistics to remove the name from the slave-roll.” In response to a demand for a plea, we can ask,

“How can I enter a plea before you have established jurisdiction?” If court proceeds, we can say, “Objection! Since jurisdiction remains unresolved, then, as a matter of law, I’ll appeal this. If you cannot prove jurisdiction, then dismiss this case.”

How to Succeed at Court: http://one-heaven.org/court_success/court_process_examples.htm

COMPLIANCE VS. CONSENT

So, to have their trick backfire on them, let them know, “With respect:  of necessity and under duress, I shall comply with your order, however, I do not consent.  Any oath or vow I utter, any action I take, any document I sign will be of no value to you without my consent. Without my consent to any bond which might be created on my word, by the honour of canon law, it will be deemed worthless.”  (See: Key Concepts:  http://one-heaven.org/ecclesiastical_deed_poll/edp_concepts.htm )  ‘Court’, from the word, ‘cautio’ means, ‘bond, security, bailment’. Court is not about justice; it is about money.

TRAFFIC “LAWS”

We know they do not really want us to “slow down”. If we all did the “speed limit”, they wouldn’t be able to collect revenue. They designed thousands of statutes which, if we don’t obey, and how could we even know them, never mind obey them, they will charge the CQV trust. I think my favourite might be the one about being fined for having more than one “proof of insurance” paper, in the car. If you have put this year’s insurance slip in front of last year’s, be prepared. Ask a cop why he cares. You can see not only how insane that is but also how desperate they are.

MORTGAGE

We know that they do not really want us to “pay the mortgage” because if we all paid the mortgage, we would remain in honour, we would not become “delinquent” and, ergo, we would not be what they want us to be, contend we are, and treat us as:  “incompetent”. It is the dishonour, delinquency, and incompetence which allows them to control us by charging the CQV trust and making us ‘pay’.

SLAVERY

Only slaves, aka “property”, are required to be enumerated. A woman was stopped at the border and asked for her passport. She said she didn’t have one. When asked, “Why not?”, she replied, “I don’t qualify for one.”  I presume this means that she didn’t have a birth certificate because that is what is required in order to get a passport. But, now we know that it is the birth certificate which evidences our enslavement.

Non-registration is our freedom. My son has no birth certificate. I have vacillated, over the years, about getting him one and a few years ago, I tried and failed, three times. Since it was so difficult, I figured it must not be the right thing to do, so I let it go.

For the rest of us whose names are “registered”, meaning: on the slave roll, which means “bind”, and “titled to the corporation”, we must contest the ownership of that title. The way to alter the status of the name of the CQV trust is to send, to Vital Statistics Registrar, an Ecclesiastical Deed Poll.  This will allow us to go after the Equity Redemption which ought to get us $10 million for “injuries”, i.e.: what they have stolen from us over our lifetime of slavery.

Astute Observation by chipotle
2011-01-25 11:44 AM

I’ll have what he’s having.  Bartender, make it a double!

Astute Observation by no name maddox
2011-01-25 01:22 PM

@chipotle

I am still dealing with collection agents and credit card banks but I have way more fun with them now. I ask the credit card companies to send me a bill, not a statement, to include a copy of the contract, evidence their consideration (what they gave me, which was nothing, in exchange for the $$$ they want), and have it signed under the full, commercial liability of one who can bind their corporation in contract. Since they can’t do this and it would be fraud if they did, they pass it along to collection agents who are even more fun because, who are they? I never had any contract with them either. They are all third party debt collectors / interlopers. I just tell them to get out of my commercial affairs. I like best the ones who have the attorneys write the letters because .... the bigger they are, the harder they fall. My latest ploy is I just pay them with a transfer instrument – makes them crazy.

...the economics of banking is counterfeiting.

Astute Observation by The Solution
2011-01-25 01:28 PM

Pay them with a transfer instrument? How does that work?

Astute Observation by dawn
2011-01-26 08:07 AM

What is meant by “pay them with a transfer instrument”?

Astute Observation by Swiller
2011-01-26 10:06 AM

@ chipotle - If having a double would bring critical thinking and the necessary questioning of fundamental beliefs you have been programmed with since birth….then yea, have a whole bottle.

Most people will lack the fortitude to even question how our nation works, or if what it does is good or right. Most people assume that is the case, and obviously, they are wrong as american free society is crumbling under the rottenness of government intrusion, manipulation, and control.

The good ol’ US of A is so fascist nowadays, to even question our government can be considered a “terrorist” act. Sad, hope you all enjoy the debt servitude. BTW, I read the Global. Union link and it sounds good, but so did the Constitution at one point, now it’s just that much more paper to wipe our asses with.

Astute Observation by chipotle
2011-01-26 11:26 AM

Swiller, there is critical thinking and then there is foaming at the mouth moonbattery.  Just because you can string a dozen legal sounding words in a row, doesn’t make you a critical thinker.  But Wesley Snipes looks forward to sharing a jail cell with you and ol’ Maddox for your (shall we just say novel?) reinterpretation of 250 years of commercial law and secured finance.

Astute Observation by Feral
2011-01-25 09:18 AM

My humble prediction…OC home sales will likely do well this Spring. QE2 reinflated stock market (check out that chart), Boomers retirement portfolios resurrected beautifully.  OC Boomers flush with cash call Realtors, eager to fund down payments (or even buy outright) houses for adult kids who would struggle to buy any OC real estate with their savings/income/credit scores.  OC house is bought, kids/grandkids stay nearby, prices stay irrationally high relative to income. Entire family heads to local soccer field to cheer little Connor as he kicks the winning goal.  Day concludes at South Coast Plaza shopping for furniture/housewares.

Astute Observation by Walter
2011-01-25 10:43 AM

We just need QE3, QE4… to keep the party going. I heard the Fed has a 1,000 year supply of ink, so we should be good for as far as the eye can see.

Astute Observation by Feral
2011-01-25 11:57 AM

Can’t fight the Fed.  401K’s and housing will be bailed out no matter what the cost.  Gotta get everybody back power shopping.

It’s a rare day the red market closes red, usually down thirty points or less…followed by a rally the following day quickly wiping out any loss, no matter what bad news develops.  Let’s see if today they perform that final hour magic, the Turnaround.

Astute Observation by WTF Finance
2011-01-26 10:31 AM

“We just need QE3, QE4… to keep the party going. I heard the Fed has a 1,000 year supply of ink, so we should be good for as far as the eye can see.”

Did you read about the TARP report by the Inspector General. It’s very interesting, given that the report actually admits that interfering creates more of the same hazards…

http://www.wtffinance.com/2011/01/special-inspector-general-to-testify-before-congress-tarp/

And you are right, it’s just a matter until the next QE, the only problem is that the Chinese are now dumping their USD holdings. Not all at once but they sure try to get something tangible in return.

Astute Observation by tazman
2011-01-25 09:23 AM

WTF?

Astute Observation by Mary Mary
2011-01-25 10:22 AM

I wonder if every IRS and CRA employee ought to be apprised of this. You might want to pass it along; it IS the loving thing to do.

*

It just crossed my mind that you might be unfamiliar with the banking system. Allow me to use the “Lottery” as an example. People generally use cash to buy lottery tickets. The lottery pot is about $20M at any given time – CASH!  If you won $8,000 in the lottery, you would take the ticket for verification. Would someone go to the cash drawer and count out your $8,000? No; he would write you a cheque. If you accepted the cheque and never did anything with it, nothing would occur. Nothing would change. No accounts would be debited; no accounts would be credited. That cheque is valueless until you endorse it. When you do, suddenly, it is worth $8,000. What’s different?  Your signature is what gave it value.  This can be verified in §57.1 of the Bills of Exchange Act of Canada which states that the signature IS the money.

Now, if you were to deposit that cheque, your account would be credited. If you were to cash the cheque, the bank would give you $8,000 cash. Then, what happens to the cheque?  Its value to the bank is quite incredible because that credit can off-set the liability of your cash receipt or account credit and, now, their ledger is balanced at no cost to the bank.

What banks are permitted, by law (the Bank Act), to do is hypothecate the value and lend it out numerous times for dramatic profit. (For details on how a bank makes a fortune from your signature, Google: Money As Debt). Suffice it to say that the cheque became a huge asset – vastly more than its face value. So far, you have benefited a bit and the bank has benefited a lot, by your signature, but the real winner, by far, is the Lottery itself because the bank returned the cheque to them. Although it is worth only $8,000 on its face, the signature upon it grants it interminable value. That cheque gets sold on the securities market and it literally travels the world creating a profit each time it is sold. So, your signature has created another fortune, this time for the Lottery. Did they EVER have to dig into their pot of $20M in order to give you your win of $8,000?  No.  You might think $8,000 was a windfall, but the truth is, bankers profited by far more than you did and it was all funded by you.  YOU created your lottery win.

Can you see that the Lottery is simply a cash-confiscatory game for the ones who run it – the World Bank?  Can you see that IRS/CRA operates the same way?  Can you see that IRS/CRA is just an agency of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank?  If you grasp this concept, you’ll see that not only do I not “owe” IRS/CRA anything but also I was the source of value which will create egregious revenue for IRS/CRA which has nothing to do with the government of U.S.A. or Canada, or the States or the Provinces, or the people of either. Its sole purpose is CASH-CONFISCATION. I am certain that you, also, have felt the effects of the IMF on your personal finances. Whatever your loss, it is important for you to know that it was all by design and intention.

Please realize the truth of this, before you consider confiscating, from me, the meagre amount that I have, compared to what IRS/CRA will receive, forever, from my signature. I created the value and IRS/CRA is the beneficiary.  Then, please, consider a job more suited to your ethics.    Thank you.

Click on my name for more info.

Astute Observation by Soylent Green Is People
2011-01-25 11:04 AM

I must add the third responsible party - the Real Estate Cartel. Many an Agent referred a borrower to me during the 2004-2007 boom only to find the conversation went something like this:

Agent - I’ve got a buyer. They want to put an offer in on a $500,000 1br / 1ba Condo.

SGIP - Thanks. I spoke to them earlier today. I don’t know how this will work. They have no cash down and make $1,500 a month gross.

Agent - Hmmm. That’s not what my other lenders at Countrywide and WAMU said. They could qualify them up to $1,000,000. I guess the only thing I can say is THANKS FOR SCREWING UP THE SALE. YOU SUCK.

Off the buyer would go, only to be set up for failure. Many of these buyers then would Ponzi their home, trying to fit that $1,500 per month income into a $4,000 per month payment the only way they knew how - leverage in an appreciating market.

The majority of the failed home owners who purchased before 2002 when Underwriting standards vanished were felled by their own self inflicted wounds. Those who purchased after were aided by the Real Estate Sales Cartel promising prices that will reach to the sky. Who didn’t hear “oh, you can always refi later” or “You’ll likely sell in 5 years so buy what you can now”?

If I had to put percentages on it, it was certainly lenders in the lead, followed by the Real Estate Sales Cartel, then borrowers who grew intoxicated on cheap money and rising faux status amongst their cul-de-sac bretheren.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.

Astute Observation by winstongator
2011-01-25 12:10 PM

Have all America’s real estate markets really been laid waste to?  Some have fared terribly, but they also had borrowers that were willing, for the most part, to do two things: pay double what someone else paid just a few years earlier, and/or devote a far higher percentage of their income to housing.  Throw in the specu-vestors and a lot of blame goes to borrowers.

Astute Observation by fractional freddy
2011-01-25 01:10 PM

In 1996, I received one of those, “Here’s $3,500 (USD) for a Happy Christmas .... just sign the back of this check”, where it outlined how much I would pay over whatever period of time I took to repay this alleged loan if indeed I cashed the cheque. I loved it. I mozied over to my bank, endorsed the cheque and was handed $3,500 FRNs. They were right; I did have a happy Christmas that year.

When they sent me a statement about a month later, trying to collect something from me which not only didn’t exist but also didn’t cost them anything other than postage and printing, I requested proof of their loss. They were flummoxed. They didn’t lend me anything. Understand that banks do not ‘qualify’ you in order not to lose $$$, they ‘qualify’ you in order to gain $$$; they don’t want to lend to educated customers. They can’t lose anything
they never lent. I hear where your ego just took you ... ‘well, you got something for nothing’. No, I didn’t; I sold my signature for $3,500 – a good price back in 1996. All I got was $3,500 in debt notes. Since then, I’ve done the math. My signature is now worth 15 billion dollars (CAD).
Then they got really jumpy and sent me threatening letters. I asked that they show me their loss. What loss could they possibly have sustained? Is my bank out any $$$? No, its books are balanced since they were electronically credited by the ‘other’ bank (there’s only one bank). Is the other bank out any $$$? No,
the returned cheque with my signature was their credit. So their books were balanced. Were my books balanced? Of course! My debit was my signature and my credit was the cash. It is all just bookkeeping entries.

Who owes what to anyone? The transactions are complete. It was simply an exchange of debit/
credit. Why would I give them anything more than what I already gave them – my signature, which is by the way, by far more valuable than $3,500 because they will lend funds against my signature many times, earning them, depending upon the rate of interest, an unlimited number of times that amount. This is called ‘fractional banking’ and their not apprising me of this is called ‘bank fraud’. So in fact I did them a huge favour by selling them my signature. They informed me that I had not ‘repaid my loan’. This is called
‘double billing’. ‘Double billing’ is fraudulent.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2011-01-25 02:48 PM

This is the best piece I’ve read here for a long time.

My only gripe is how flippant IrvineRenter remains regarding the chain of title. Yes, on the blame issue for the mortgage mess as a whole, this paperwork issue is irrelevant. But, it becomes very relevant when you purchase a bank owned home. The last thing a new homeowner needs is the hassle of dealing with title issues after they purchase a home. So, the paperwork issue isn’t meaningless. Even if the title holds (which will almost always be the case), it is no fun dealing with the legal drama that ensues when one of these deadbeats challenges the title on your property

“The emotional pandering is part of the left-wing political meme on this issue. The other political pandering to loan owners concerns robo-signer.”

I couldn’t agree more on this and I’m a friggin liberal. Crooks and Liars is one of the more mainstream sites I see this garbage on. During the Bush years these sites were very reasonable. I guess when you have a razor-sharp focus on a clearly illegal war based on doctored intelligence it’s pretty easy to have a reasonable position. Impeach the guy.

But, now that we got a centrist in office that has very reasonable policies regarding bailing out homeowners, these sites are awash with emotional diatribes about how these poor debt laden luxury car driving “homeowners” deserve a free ride for one reason or another.

“But, but… the banks got away with it!”

Hey friends, maybe your focus should be on prosecuting bank executives rather than promoting more theft.

Astute Observation by no name maddox
2011-01-25 04:27 PM

In accordance with 15 USC sec. 1641(f)(2) (which is part of the Truth in Lending Act(TILA)) requesting the chain of title information to the note and Deed of Trust which, by Federal law, the lender or servicer must give you. BTW, about 80% of the time, the servicer DOESN’T have one or both of these present and is betting on you NOT asking for it. But this isn’t the half of it.

Think of the game of musical chairs. There simply are not enough chairs ($$$ to pay interest) to go
around. Those who are forced to leave the game, as there is not enough money in the economy to pay back all the debt the banks have created by their expansion of credit, and profited from creating it, will lose all they have worked to accrue. It is the banks which will receive the hard asset, representing the fruits of your labour, and you have to start all over, with nothing. Who sets the interest rates in this country? The interest rate, e.g.:6% is always commensurate with the percentage of those who will go bankrupt.

The bankster’s crime of pre-meditated expansion of the debt beyond the amount of money in circulation will create a predetermined number of innocent victims, commensurate to the percentage of interest that the banks charge each year. Yet, banks cannot commit this crime without our giving them our signed promissory note so we can hypothecate a certain number of years of our future labour in order to use the bank’s
equivalent of money, right now, in the present. Until interest, which is being applied to the credit extended by banks, is eliminated the people will remain slaves to the ‘credit system’ which is the banking and monetary system of the world.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2011-01-25 07:30 PM

Man, what’s with the chain mail? The world has gone to hell.

Astute Observation by winstongator
2011-01-25 07:11 PM

Generation Y wants housing Las Vegas has in short supply

This means two things:
downward pressure on the types of housing that are less desired
much less downward pressure on desired housing types.

Different types of housing in different locations are not perfect substitutes.

Astute Observation by Mike Nolls
2011-01-27 10:47 PM

Our financial system is screwed, and the only way to rebuild it is with consumer confidence.  Who has confidence in the dollar or our economy currently..No one. That to me is worrisome, and to top it off where are we seeing the most “economic stimulus”.. foreign investors?? Soon we’ll have to answer to another BIG bank,,, China.  And they’ll have our @**

Astute Observation by WTF Finance
2011-01-28 12:11 AM

“Our financial system is screwed, and the only way to rebuild it is with consumer confidence.”

I very much disagree with that assessment. No doubt, the US monetary system is screwed but it isn’t for a lack of confidence. The Federal Reserve and Government’s policies do everything they can to increase confidence, all policies are there to increase spending, increase credit, etc. That results in misguided confidence and the result is the dire state that the US monetary system is in.

Policies that add “confidence” only delay the inheritable. Look were the artificial low interest rate got us…

http://www.wtffinance.com/2011/01/fcic-report-financial-crisis-could-have-been-avoided/

Commenting is not available in this channel entry.

<< Back to main