From Squatting to Renting: Another Solution to Stabilize Housing

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by IPHB
2010-09-15 07:20 AM

Hey everyone,

This article, based solely on median price numbers, says that housing in CA in on the rebound:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/15/real_estate/california_home_price_rebound/index.htm?source=cnn_bin

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2010-09-15 07:23 AM

As the market mix shifts from low priced homes to higher price points, the median will go up even if house prices on individual properties do not.

Astute Observation by IPHB
2010-09-15 07:35 AM

True. But that’s what this article ignores, along with the looming shadow inventory and the fact that the banks have been able game the RE market by limiting supply of distressed properties for sale, thereby affecting median prices.

Astute Observation by E
2010-09-15 02:09 PM

You hit the nail on the head IMHO.

From what I see, the banks have ABSOLUTE control over the median prices. 

When they control the majority of the inventory, they can even pick and choose which market segment they want to focus on.  If the median appears to be falling, they can throw more high dollar foreclosures on the market at “attractive” prices and ask WTF prices on their low end boxes.

Astute Observation by JDSoCal
2010-09-15 01:35 PM

Exactly, we’re already seeing this in the OC Register’s reports of “price increases in XXX OC zip codes!”.

How can the median price go up in a zip (like 92649), yet every house sold for 20% off of its initial asking price? Because the more expensive homes in that zip are being sold, as the tax credit stole only $800K and below home sales from today’s market. Hence, sales of $800K+ homes are disproportionate to <$800K homes. “Price increase.”

“There are liars, damned liars and statisticians.”—Mark Twain

Astute Observation by Stock Investor
2010-09-15 07:23 AM

IrvineRenter: “If this rent-to-own feature is added to the above proposal ...”

Most squatters never intended to own properties. They expected to resell with profit or to cash out appreciation.

Actually they need “rent-to-quick money” feature. “Rent-to-own” is absolutely useless for them.

Astute Observation by Walter
2010-09-15 09:19 AM

Aren’t these deals usually a “Rent-with-an-option-to-own”?

They can buy them if they want, or just rent until their term is up and they move out if owning is not to their liking.

Astute Observation by Stock Investor
2010-09-15 11:16 AM

Every renter can buy house and become homeowner.

So “rent-to-own” option is marketing gimmick that targets particular human weaknesses.

Typical squatter has much bigger problem. Greed. Simple marketing gimmick is not strong enough against capital sins.

Astute Observation by Walter
2010-09-15 12:37 PM

As a stock investor you should know that the “rent-to-own” option may or may not have value depending on the current market price and the strike price.

It may or may not just be a marketing gimmick depending on the terms of the option and the behavior of the market over the term.

Astute Observation by Stock Investor
2010-09-15 09:08 PM

Yes, theoretically this option has value, but how about real-world conditions?

The concept is not new, and “rent-to-own” option was always available in Orange County. Easy to run numbers.

Astute Observation by winstongator
2010-09-15 07:56 AM

Did you look at all those properties?  Fourth one down looks like it nearly burned down and is probably a tear-down.  Some of the other ‘condos’ look like they’d be better converted to apartments.  I’ve definitely seen that in FL, where a 4-8 unit building got ‘condo’d’, and the prior owner made a killing.  Investors should really look at getting those units back together to reduce some of the property maintenance & repair costs.  I would like to see the GSE’s do this and then set up local REITs, and then spin them off individually - Vegas REIT 1, Dade County REIT 1…

A difference between condos in Vegas and FL is that people will vacation in the condos in FL, but I think most vacationers in Vegas want to be near the gambling and in a hotel.  So in FL, you can have a seasonal rental, people renting months at a time, and possibly empty in the summer.

Astute Observation by Sue in Irvine
2010-09-15 08:22 AM

Can a few foreclosures in your neighborhood bring down your house value? When they compare recent comps are they figuring in the sold foreclosures?

And, this may sound stupid, but if the squatters don’t pay why can’t the bank garnish their wages(assuming they have a job).

Astute Observation by Walter
2010-09-15 09:22 AM

“why can’t the bank garnish their wages”

It is not part of the legal remedies in the mortgage contract if the loan defaults.

Astute Observation by winstongator
2010-09-15 08:27 AM

I figured I’d do a similar search in Southeast Florida.  I found a listing for ~ $22k.  Has interior pictures and looks relatively clean, but is in a rougher neighborhood.  I checked to see bubble sale price ~ $175k.  100% financed. 

Sold by a ‘conversion corp’.  26 units, 10 now bank/GSE owned.  They all sold for ~$180k in 2006, and lets say they’re worth $30k now.  That’s 26*$150k = $3.9M in bubble cashing out by the prior owner.  Four mortgages, all with problems, all with the same originator…

A single owner will probably not be able to roll this one back up, as there are still a number of non-foreclosed units, but they could probably get enough and then offer maintenance services to the other owners.

Whatever your politics, this represents a massive inefficiency.  Also there seems something fishy with all the buyers in a condo conversion like that getting their mortgages at the same smaller broker.

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2010-09-15 08:39 AM

Cover curse ?

Astute Observation by winstongator
2010-09-15 09:04 AM

So doesn’t that mean that homeownership makes perfect sense now???

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-09-15 10:32 AM

I generally like the idea of turning the mortgage holders into renters. I think that’s a great compromise solution. They can’t claim to be made homeless and this cushions the losses for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

However, they should just be renters. I am against a “rent to own” model, because it would simply be principal forgiveness by another name. That is rewarding bad behavior.

Also, the program would need to ensure that these new renters didn’t sublet their house.

This should be a program only for government held mortgages. If the private sector wants in on this, they can do it themselves without a government program. If memory serves me correctly, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were already forced to buy up a ton of bad loans from the private sector (under Paulson/Bush?). And we had the Troubled Asset Relief Program (definitely under Paulson/Bush). So, they’ve been helped out enough. Let them fend for themselves on this one.

As far as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, they should close up shop in an orderly manner. They are too tainted to be viable. Move their mission over to Ginnie Mae.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-09-15 10:39 AM

Oops, that should be:

I like the idea of turning the mortgagors into renters.

Astute Observation by JDSoCal
2010-09-15 01:40 PM

Irvine Renter, may we assume there are property management companies that can help run single-family rental properties in a cost-effective manner, for those landlords who can’t fly to Vegas to unclog toilets?

Astute Observation by chip
2010-09-15 01:55 PM

If unemployment and foreclosures are causing downward pressures on costs of owning, why aren’t those same pressures action on rents? For how long can a house cost $550 to own and $1000 to rent? Shouldn’t the market for rentals also be affected by lowered house prices?

Astute Observation by tacoshark
2010-09-15 02:04 PM

Simple. Housing in the 20th century is tied credit just as much as income. Rent is tied purely to income.

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2010-09-15 02:28 PM

What are the property tax trends in Las Vegas, or any other city for that matter? The last I heard most towns/cities/counties/states don’t exactly have rosy financial outlooks. I can only guess that it’s going to have a big impact on tax rates.

I know CA has prop 13, but do any other places have such limits on tax increases? Even if there is a limit, what’s to stop the governing bodies from repealing it?

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2010-09-15 02:04 PM

Here’s an interesting idea:

Gov’t say banks should share Fannie, Freddie costs

WASHINGTON – The nation’s largest banks have an obligation to pay some of the cost for bailing out mortgage buyers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because they sold them bad mortgages, a government regulator said Wednesday.

Edward DeMarco, the acting director for the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said the banks this summer have refused to take back $11 billion in bad loans sold to the two government-controlled companies, in written testimony submitted for a House subcommittee hearing Wednesday. A third of those requests have been outstanding for at least three months.

DeMarco said the banks have a legal obligation to buy back the loans and called the delays “a significant concern.” He said the government may take new steps to force those buybacks if “discussions do not yield reasonable outcomes soon.”

Astute Observation by winstongator
2010-09-15 06:26 PM

GSE’s just play hardball.  Don’t want these bad loans, well then we won’t buy any of your new originations.  90+% of new mortgages are GSE bought, so that should be enough of a stick to get them moving.  And not just short term.  For every day loans aren’t taken back, 3 or 4 of no new gse loans.

This would be a credibile threat and one that the GSE’s would be well within their means to make.  Wells Fargo Nets $3bn in Q210 Earnings as Mortgage Applications Rise 14%

Astute Observation by theyenguy
2010-09-16 07:08 PM

Hello, Irvine Renter, I appreciate you and I want to give you a “heads up”, well actually, “two heads up”.

I just finished writing “Yentervention Restarts The Bear Market”, and in summary: 1) the mother of all bear markets has commenced, it will commence an Elliott Wave 3 of 3 down, these destroy most all wealth: and 2) I believe that out of a liquidity crisis, a Financial Regulator, one called a Seignior is coming, supposedly to set things right, and I think that person will be Elizabeth Warren.

Well here are the details: Yentervention has restarted a sell off in currencies that will produce a sell off of stocks globally.

The Bank of Japan in selling the Yen, FXY, on September 15, 2010, has created the consequence of restarting competitive currency devaluation that occurred on April 26, 2010, with the European Sovereign Debt Crisis coming to a head. This being evidenced by the small cap pure value, RZV, shares falling more than small cap growth, RZG, shares.

On September 15, forex traders who were long the AUD/JPY, opened their portfolio to find that during the night, with the Bank of Japan’s currency operation, their position was massively larger as is seen in the chart of FXA:FXY; substantially larger than the EUR/JPY, FXE:FXY, portfolio.

Many of the beneficiaries of the BoJs selling operation have likely gone short, producing today’s Australian Dollars, FXA, bearish harami.

Other evidence for another bout of debt deflation, is the Mexico Peso, FXM, turning lower inducing Mexican Stocks, EWW, to fall 0.4% lower; and the Russian Ruble, XRU, to fall lower inducing Russian S&P, RBL, to fall 2.0% lower.

I believe that soon, out of a liquidity evaporation and a liquidity crisis, stemming from a fast fall in bond and/or stock values, that here in the US, a Financial Regulator will be announced who will oversee lending and credit, as well as money market and brokerage accounts.

This person will be what I call a credit boss or credit seignior who funds economic operations with an emphasis on seeing that the strategic needs of the country are met and that monies for food stamps keeps flowing. I believe the government will become the first, last and only provider of liquidity and money.

I believe that here in the US, the Financial Regulator will exercise Discretionary Governance, and announce a Home Leasing/Renting Program administered by the banks on their REO properties and those of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and the US Federal Reserve. Mortgage lending and securitization of loans will cease, and leasing of homes will be a public private partnership cooperative endeavor. Companies that have created and serviced mortgage-backed securities, such as Anworth Mortgage Asset Corporation, ANH, and Annaly Capital Management, NLY, will quickly disappear from the economic landscape, as mortgage bond funds such as Goldman Sachs Mortgage Bonds, GSUAX, tumble in value.

And I envision that in Europe, a continuing fall in the EUR/JPY from 112, will result in further stock deflation, seen in the ETF, FEZ, falling below 36 and EUFN falling from 22. Then a liquidity crisis will emerge, where there will not be enough buyers for sellers of stocks as well as bonds, causing small business failures, and banks to become sorely decapitalized, resulting in the president of the ECB arising to be an “Eurozone Credit Seignior” and provider of liquidity to Europe.

While many write that Ms Warren has been appointed as lapdog, I believe that Ms. Warren, is more likely to turn out to be the top dog, that is the Seignior, meaning top dog who takes a cut, and be called upon in time of crisis, to assume the role of Financial Regulator overseeing investment, banking, lending, credit, seigniorage and house leasing as her many articles would uniquely qualify her for such a role.

I provide a link to my article

Irvine Renter thanks again, as your articles have educated me.

Astute Observation by apartment lease
2010-09-19 11:39 PM

oh wonderful site bro. provides so many vital informations on residence prices, & USA home owners graph.

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