Does the Irvine school system add value to local houses?

Oct 14th, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-10-14 07:56 AM

Irvine Renter, you sound like a great parent.  It’s great to hear you understand what is important: spending time with your son and enjoying and appreciating what he brings to the world and your life.

Irvine is the result of class warfare as the top 30% continue to thrive.  The rat race of Irvine was invented by panic for security for ones family as capitalism continues to create disparity.  There’s a tipping point where people finally understand what is really imprortant.  I’m not sure this will happen in our lifetimes (I doubt it) but it will happen, the signs are evident.

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2011-10-14 08:52 AM

I can think of another thing which would help our young children and build a bright future, both for them and for responsible, patriotic renting families: home prices which require only modest mortgages and a light debt load.

Elimination of non-productive debt-addled atheist squatters from our housing stock would create safer and more affordable neighborhoods for our Christian families. Good solid affordable family neighborhoods create a humble, patriotic, and Christian environment for our families and children, which are our most important resources.

Astute Observation by FreedomCM
2011-10-14 11:24 AM

What’s with all the christian stuff?  Is that snark?

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2011-10-14 11:35 AM

There is moral choice in our universe: We can have neighborhoods of $atan-worshiping debt huggers who do not pay their bills, or we can have healthy family neighborhoods, made up on honest children-oriented families who have not mortgaged their family’s (and childrens’) future to by BMWs and tight pants to go clubbing in.

Family children family children.

Today’s family renters are about solid, responsible family values. Let’s bring them into our neighborhoods, and drive out the old debt-loving sleaze with pitchforks and torches!

Astute Observation by Perspective
2011-10-14 01:10 PM

And what exactly does the diety you worship and the fables you believe in have to do with any of this?

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2011-10-14 02:40 PM

And what exactly does the diety you worship and the fables you believe in have to do with any of this?

Irony is dead.

I was mocking the usual garbage about how “we must keep home prices high to help families.” I had hoped to make the point that, yes, the same can be said in favor of renting families. Indeed, families in general would all benefit from an asset which did not require a 30-year period of extreme debt servitude to purchase.

If anything is family friendly, low house prices are, together with an acceptance that a house is not an investment, but a place to live.

In order to give extra sting to my mockery, I added the usual holier-than-thou tone which assumes that no decent human being could disagree with my point, because I am extremely angry that every real-estate journalist assumes that continued high prices are the best thing for America’s families - whatever that means.

Heavy-handed? You bet. Leaden? Possibly.

But it scares me that we’re living in an age where sarcasm as severe as I intended can be misunderstood as an earnest statement. Yikes!

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-10-14 02:48 PM

“But it scares me that we’re living in an age where sarcasm as severe as I intended can be misunderstood as an earnest statement. Yikes!”

I had the misfortune to live in an area of the country where your sarcasm was stated as a deeply held belief. You can never be sure.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2011-10-14 03:01 PM

I figured, but it just wasn’t extreme enough to be certainly sarcastic.

Astute Observation by FreedomCM
2011-10-14 03:32 PM

you still do

Astute Observation by theyenguy
2011-10-14 09:32 AM

You relate, Good schools are largely a product of involved parents and motivated students … this is true.

My conviction from life experience, that interest shown by the parents in education and motivation on the part of the student is only part of school performance; the other parts are inherent capability to learn, which is a genetic factor, and a God given gift to learn. There are some who simply because of their culture, and because of their genetic code and absence of a God given gift to learn, can not be educated. The best hope society has for the latter group of individuals is provide life skills training, encouragement to bridle sex and other drives, to provide free schizophrenia medication as needed, mandate STD vaccines for all girls, as well as to stop public education efforts after the sixth grade, and make households pay for education at the junior high and high school level. Education at the higher levels is not an entitlement. Society has no responsibility to help to people beyond providing basic math and reading skills.

CBS Detroit reports that nearly half of all the people living in Detroit can’t read. And The Economic Collapse Blog reports that in Detroit today, there are over 33,000 abandoned houses, 70 schools are being permanently closed down, the mayor wants to bulldoze one-fourth of the city and you can literally buy a house for one dollar in the worst areas. This cultural wasteland is not the result of jobs being located out of the US; but, rather it is the case of the people that live there cannot be educated. Not all are edcateable, they simply do not have the genetic code to be educated. Yes they can be instructed and taught some things, with a lot of one-on-one teaching. But they simply can not be educated, it is not their fault, the issue stems from a genetic disadvantage. I am not a racist, I am simply relating my life experience and convictions thereof.

There are many non-minority people I know who have no interest in learning. They are the Joe six packs, and the Jane mothers, the women who simply want to get pregnant and have children. I know one such woman who got pregnant out of wedlock immediately before menopause, just for the experience of getting pregnant one last time; she gave the child up for adoption. These people have no interest in reading, they use what little is left over from alcohol money, or shopping money, to buy television service. And they are largely incapable of learning on the computer, believe me I have tried teaching these people emailing and internet skills, but they are overwhelmed and simply cannot remember how to use the browser, mouse and keypad.  Many minorities are schizophrenic by nature, and need to be on medication to restrain their violent tendencies.

The fact of the matter is that many are culturally disposed to learning as they grow up in an upper middle class area such as Irvine, or Mercer Island, and they have the genetic code to learn. I came from what I call a mixed genetic code, might say mongrel code, as my dad was an educator, but my mother was an alcoholic; there was no household emphasis on learning; the family ethic was simply to enjoy life. There was no philosophical or religious ethic.

My education began while living in a bed and breakfast inn, during the off-season in Sitka Alaska, where I encountered an English professor, who I enjoyed having a discussion about English words and their prefixes and suffixes. I then developed Questioning and Critical Thinking. Then, I stumbled across a couple who gifted me a James McArthur Study Bible, and I came to study scripture daily and participate in a weekly bible study, where people would share their week’s reflections on a passage of study. Thus it was only recently that I received an education. And, from that education I’ve come to believe that not all are edcateable, God planned it that way. He is sovereign, he rules all, everywhere. He gives gifts to all; but he retains the right to determine, who gets an education. 

Like your son, I have an autistic spectrum disorder. Do I have any complaints? None at all, God is and does as he wills. He determines the times and exact places where an individual lives Acts 17:26.

Perhaps one might enjoy my blog, where I share my thoughts on the sovereignty of God: one can use the link provided to EconomicReview Journal.  And yes, Irvine Renter, I even got an education from you on Heloc Dependency; I was too callow, to figure it out on my own.

Astute Observation by Duran
2011-10-14 10:02 AM

Religion is for those who don’t understand Science.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2011-10-14 10:08 AM

Whoa, where’s all this god talk coming from today?

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-10-14 10:33 AM

I have no idea. I didn’t mention it. If anything, I thought I might be criticized for attending the Church of Disney on Sunday mornings.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-14 01:13 PM

When you live in “the Land of the Mouse” you are expected to visit “D” from time to time.  No extra credit for Sunday. 

Raising my children in Mission Viejo, I had a different experience.  During their elementary schools (1969-1978) my daughter and son attended 4 different elementary schools in both school districts that service that community.  At that time Saddleback School District was considered the top school district in the area.  They spent the most time at DePortola Elementary in the early grades 1-5.  I was also employed as an aide at that school.  The most significant difference there was the school principal.  He was a truly dedicated professional that was able to hire a significantly talented group of teachers, bring them together as a unified force, and make the most of whatever assets they possessed individually, and collectively.  The demographics of that school at that time were very similar to Irvine presently: upper middle-class, college educated parents, homogenious ethnic backgrounds, few (if any) families disadvantaged, over 10% of students qualified for “gifted” programs.  We also had a part-time music teacher and part-time nurse that divided time between 3 schools.  The district music festival was so expansive that it had to be held at Anaheim Convention Center.  When my kids got to high school level, they both had excellent opportunities in sports, AP classes, as well as other choices.  My daughter was one of 5 students admitted to Stanford, with 20 others admitted to Harvard, Yale, and other top schools out of a class of 250 students.  She was CIF All Stars player in basketball and also lettered in softball.  She now is a professor at George Washington University and is part of the national AP board that evaluates testing and curriculum for AP programs.  Believe it or not, she didn’t have to live in Irvine.

Astute Observation by Bubble or Not, It is better than the alternative!
2011-10-14 10:39 AM

I moved to Irvine from the Milwaukee area 8 years ago. Why? 3 reasons.
1. A descent Job.
2. The schools
3. The weather.
Well, the descent job (in a construction related field) is gone, but the schools and the weather are still here.
I am so tired of hearing people bash this city. Yes it is boring, the kids are sheltered, it is expensive, blah, blah, blah…. So what! It is expensive everywhere worth living! I am glad my kid is sheltered from much of the degenrate bullshit that most other metro areas have to offer! My family is lucky to live here. Especially after being on unemployment for over a year!  I could have moved back home to WI. got a crappy job and payed cheap rent to live in a run down ghetto fabulous city. But instead, I struggle to pay my ridiculous rent and keep the fridge full. I drive an old car, dont take lavish vacations, and save every dime I can. But you know what? My child gets straight A’S in high school. Not just any School. One of the best in the entire country!! Do I wish I could spend less for housing? Who doesnt? But to me the safety and happiness of my family and the future opportunites for myself and my child are worth every dollar per square foot.

Astute Observation by nefron
2011-10-14 05:53 PM

Right with you, 100%.  I could have bought a cheaper place but I want my kids where education and safety are valued and I’m willing to scrape and struggle for it. 

I just don’t understand why more communities don’t try to use education to keep property values up.

Astute Observation by IndieDev
2011-10-14 04:10 PM

I don’t think anyone is bashing Irvine, but there are real problems with the affordability of this city.

You said you have a “decent job” yet struggle to pay rent, and put food on the table.

You don’t find anything wrong with that statement?

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-10-16 03:12 AM

I don’t. This is how capitalism works, unfortunately.

Some parents are in deep debt trying to pay for their kids’ Ivy League educations. Do you find anything wrong with that statement?

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-10-17 12:39 AM

> I don’t. This is how capitalism works, unfortunately.

You say capitalism, I say TIC/Bren quarter-million dollar lot tax.

> Some parents are in deep debt trying to pay for their kids’ Ivy League educations. Do you find anything wrong with that statement?

Yes, most people have a greater appreciation for things that they earned. There’s a lot of options for poor families rather than Ivy League schools.

In fact, families should not co-sign non-dischargeable student loans, as any accountant will tell you these days.

Astute Observation by Bubble or Not, It is better than the alternative!
2011-10-18 10:24 AM

What I find wrong with your statement about the lack of affordable housing is that it does not belong in this thread. This thread is about Irvine schools and the impact on ones decision to live here. As I stated, my decent job has gone away. I stay here (working my crappy job) and struggle to pay rent and bills so that my child can continue recieving a first-rate education.

The affordability factor means little to me. Mostly because I rent. At my current income, (off 35% from 09) I could not afford to purchase the SFR I live in. So, I will coninue renting while my child recieves a “free” world-class education. When she graduates HS in 2015 we will likely move somewhere more affordable and begin an entirely new struggle called “paying for college”!

Astute Observation by anonie
2011-10-15 11:20 AM

I too am a parent of a special needs child who attends Irvine pre-school. I’ve considered moving out due to housing costs but the special needs program here seem to be adequate and am concerned about neighboring districts like Tustin and Fountain Valley. I will be buying a house in Irvine soon, paying through the nose but it is such a great area to raise a young family.

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-10-16 03:22 AM

Now that we’re talking about Irvine schools, what areas would you consider to be some of the best (in terms of schools) in Irvine?

I was thinking of buying a house either at Oak Creek or Westpark in the near future.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-17 08:47 AM

I’ve read ALL these posts and I keep coming back to the core.  Everyone seems convinced that “Irvine schools, and ONLY Irvine schools can meet the needs of everyone’s children”.  I submit you all are victims of marketing hype, if not downright brainwashing.  TIC’s marketing thrust for the school situation really only took hold when they began to sell homes in Tustin Ranch.  That was in the mid-late 1980’s.  Sales there were slower than in other areas.  “Secret shoppers” were dispatched to sales offices to see if sales staff were touting school performance.  Prices were adjusted to increase sales volume.  ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE YET?  Early 1980’s was the run-up to 17% interest rates!  Another recession followed.  The “market” didn’t return until the early 1990’s.  So, they needed a HOOK.  And they happened on to a self-perpetuating marketing ploy.  By that time Wong and all his Chinese brothers had taken up the notion, the ethnic newspapers and ethnic social groupsembraced the notion.  And the demographics began to change.  I’m not saying that was bad.  But it was ‘social engineering’ on a scale not considered as part of sales/marketing for residential housing.  Homes suddenly boasted “wok rooms”, instead of trash compactors there were “rice bins”, fortune cookies were served in sales offices.  If you feel the Irvine Schools are SO superior, have any of you taken the time to research private education outside public education?  How about Harbor Day?  You could live anywhere and send your kids to Harbor Day.  San Clemente, perhaps, where ocean close homes were 45% less money.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-10-17 10:41 AM

So it’s okay when IrvineRenter does things for the children but not okay when others do?

Let’s be fair here folks.

Does Irvine have good schools or not? I’ve read many comments over there years herre where it’s just a fallacy or a marketing ploy (heck… there’s one just above me). But facts and numbers don’t lie. You can’t “secret shop” API scores. Irvine schools are always at the top of the lists, usually getting beat out by charter schools which is effectively the same type of enrollment.

As for private vs. IUSD public… I can make that comparison. And while both have their pros/cons…  almost every parent I know who has been in the same private school our kids were in have found IUSD to be just as good if not better.

I think any parent here would consider paying a premium to live in a safer city with a better school system. It’s for the children right?

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2011-10-17 11:21 AM

I think the school are better.  Used to teach in both public and private school in another state, and the Irvine schools are far and away the best I’ve ever seen.  Excellent teachers for the most part and a very good curriculum that is tracked and tweaked each year to make an excellent excellent curriculum.  Students value academics as well which is great - when the kids compete to be good over who is doing better in Math, that encourages learning a lot more than competing over cool clothes or whatever.

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2011-10-17 11:23 AM

The learning does come with a lot of homework however.  If you are a parent who wants the kids to magically learn everything by 3pm and have the evenings and weekends completely free, Irvine might not be the best choice for you.  But if you are willing to put in the homework time (or pay a tutor to do it for you), then the schools are great.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-17 12:48 PM

“Used to teach in both public and private school in another state, and the Irvine schools are far and away the best I’ve ever seen”....so…as compared to another state?  What does that mean?  Every school/district tweaks curriculum every year.  Federal funding requires it.  Private schools often take the “cool clothes” out of the equation with uniforms.  So, then you are left with a community that “value’s academics”.  Is that all there is?  If that was true, only kids from Irvine would go on to higher learning.  Get real.  There are lots and lots of kids who go to college and on to graduate school and beyond who don’t live in ‘fabled Irvine’.  You just drank the koolaid.

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2011-10-17 09:14 PM

Usually, states tweak standards, issue a standard textbook, then it’s up to the individual teachers to cobble something together themselves to meet the standards.  Different teachers, completely different classroom materials all cobbled together based on whatever the teacher can afford to pay out of their own pocket (no reimbursement).  It’s like the preindustrial revolution when each craftsman made up their own.  I’ve done it and seen others do it too.  Irvine though - take elementary science for example.  When I volunteer, I see the premade labs and materials.  I see the standard hands on equipment (ex. live animals and such) that the teachers share and rotate.  And there is a curriculum specialist to evaluate the results each year and improve it so it gets better every year instead of random changes   without measurement.  I was working BTW in the most highly rated high school in the state (public) and at an exclusive private school (>$10,000 tuition with kids who had mansions and 5 horses and 3 christmas trees and layouts in homemaking magazines of the landscape artists christmas tree), and it can’t touch what I see when I volunteer in an Irvine classroom.  The teachers are better, the curriculum is better, and the students are better.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-18 07:34 AM

So…who pays for the premade labs and materials?  Go to newspaper archives and search Donald Bren, contributions, schools.  Not every community has their very own resident billionaire.  But he’s pushing 80.

Astute Observation by Hmph
2011-10-18 08:31 AM

So now you agree that Irvine schools are better.  But it’s only because of Donald Bren and once he is done, the schools won’t be as good. ????

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-18 08:50 AM

@Humph…follow the money.  Look at the amenity packages of older Irvine villages vs. current ones; say, Woodbridge vs. Laguna Altura.  The Ranch is getting close to build-out.  The large remaining residential pieces are not in Irvine.  There soon will be no reason for TIC to spend anything to promote Irvine.  Lennar will have to take on that task, if they do it at all.  They probably will be content to ride the coatails of the “myth” as it exists.  Bren has done a lot in terms of supplies/materials/etc. to assist Irvine schools and in giving cash awards to top teachers outside of the property tax revenue stream the district receives.  All done to create the impression that his dirt is worth more than anyone elses.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-17 12:35 PM

Safer City?  Another marketing coup.  Stats are mostly the same for Mission Viejo, Laguna Niguel, etc.  Just not in the same category…based on population….“safest City with a population under/over x,000,000”

Private/public….you are still paying for the “school experience”....only difference is your larger mortgage.  And there just might be an educational advantage for the kids to learn something from a more diverse population.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-10-17 12:47 PM

“Safer City?  Another marketing coup.  Stats are mostly the same for Mission Viejo, Laguna Niguel, etc.  Just not in the same category…based on population….“safest City with a population under/over x,000,000””

Is it a marketing coup or statistically correct?

The comparison wasn’t being made to similar South County schools (which also have an RE premium if you compare them to Santa Ana, parts of Lake Forest or Riverside) because the price difference is not as pronounced as the aforementioned cities. I would live in a South OC city also except for that fact it’s much farther from work/play/friends/family.

So let me add “central location” to the list of why Irvine has a premium.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-17 12:59 PM

Fine.  That’s your choice of why you are willing to pay a premium.  But that has nothing to do with the schools.  There are always those choices to be made.  You would rather pay more to live closer to where you work.

Astute Observation by Carl Pham
2011-10-18 02:51 PM

Irvine schools have better test scores than neighboring districts because of demographics, namely a much higher Asian fraction.  If you compare apples to apples, e.g. within ethnic categories, Irvine school test scores are no better than the other South County districts.

Astute Observation by Casual Observer
2011-10-18 02:59 PM

And with that ethnic cohort comes a strong family emphasis on school, homework, etc.  And frees up teachers from teaching English to children who only speak Spanish.  If that sounds biased, sorry.  It’s reality.

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