Countrywide’s Mozilo Should Go to Jail

Oct 20th, 2010  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by OrangeRenter
2010-10-20 07:30 AM

I read somewhere yesterday that the settlement was structured so that BofA pays $20mil and somehow he pays nothing… Not sure how that works.

Also, when Option Arms were the hot item, they earned 3x the typical margins in the secondary market, and 20-something-year-old sales agents where I worked were paid 3x the normal commission… For this reason they pushed these loans on everyone they could doing whatever it took to convince them.

I never understood why these loans were worth so much more than a conventional loan when they only earned 1-2% initially. I guess the market thought they’d be wildly profitable when they reset, but we never got that far - they imploded before that day came.

Astute Observation by SeattleDave
2010-10-20 09:47 AM

“I never understood why these loans were worth so much more than a conventional loan when they only earned 1-2% initially.”

Through a quirk in the accounting, the banks were able to book the entire interest payment as profit in the month it was made, even though the owner paid less of the interest that was due.  The remainder of the unpaid interest was tacked onto the principal, and was essentially deferred.  So the bank was booking a profit on money that they did not actually receive.  Sweet!

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2010-10-20 01:01 PM

For this reason they pushed these loans on everyone they could doing whatever it took to convince them.

It probably didn’t take much convincing, nothing more than something along the lines of, “I could cut your monthly mortgage payment in half.”

It surprises me how stupid people are when it comes to shopping. Even large businesses don’t care much about total cost; it’s all about cash flow.

Astute Observation by Geotpf
2010-10-20 07:56 AM

I don’t understand the concept of owning a propetry for just a year (unless you are just blatantly flipping it, which doesn’t seem to be the case here).  Transaction costs are large, and moving is a pain in the butt.  Of course, there could be an unexpected job loss or transfer, death, or family issue that requires an unexpected out of town move.

As for whether or not it will sell at a profit (minus costs, of course), I wouldn’t be surprised.  The owner purchased at close to the absolute bottom, and the last four sales of this exact floor plan all sold significantly above their list price.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 08:25 AM

What I find amazing is how little outrage we are seeing wth these reports of the Federal Reserve blatantly and openly coming out and saying that we don’t have enough inflation.

While everybody is running around with their hair on fire over MERS and robo-signers and deadbeat house debtors being foreclosed “fraudulently” - we have the central bank right out in the open calling for the theft of everyone’s money.

The master of the universe is now saying that we don’t have enough inflation so we need to print enough money to cause inflation that wouuld equal 2% per year since 2007.

OH, so I guess Ron Paul was right then - the job of the Central Bank is indeed to create inflation after all.  The sheer hubris of these people is stunning - thinking that they can just create money out of thin air to cure what ails us.  This is going to come to an end at some point.  I suspect even within my own lifetime.

Astute Observation by Swiller
2010-10-20 09:49 AM

Ron Paul is an excellent man. I had to WRITE IN his name to vote for him for president in California. Look to Thomas Jefferson David.

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”—Thomas Jefferson—The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)

Excellent link to read:

http://www.barefootsworld.net/prophesy.html

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 06:12 PM

Look to Thomas Jefferson David

I suspect the founders would be fairly pissed off to see what we have done with the place.  I visited Mt. Rushmore earlier this year.  Perhaps we should petition to have the monument updated to reflect the times.  Could we chisel a nice big Jefferson giving us his middle finger?

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 10:48 AM

I love the assholes who say, “but sustained inflation is a good thing.”

No, no it’s not.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-20 12:29 PM

Yes, yes it is.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:02 PM

Please explain.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-20 05:42 PM

No.

For some reason I have to say something more to get my comment to post. There we go.

Astute Observation by Chuck Ponzi
2010-10-21 11:04 AM

Can I take a crack?

Price inflation is generally good for debtholders whose debt is backed by the asset which is being inflated.  It’s not good for savers who intend to purchase said assets in the future.

Money creation (not necessarily linked) is a good thing.  Especially when your goods and services capabilities are expanding.  Otherwise, you have price deflation since the same amount of money is chasing more goods and services (lower prices in the future).  The promise of lower prices in the future causes money velocity to drop, causing money hoarding, which from a value judgement in my opinion is bad.  My value system says that money should be properly invested, lent to someone who will invest, or spent.  Generally, hoarding money is only useful in the short run as a defensive measure.  In my opinion.  It’s worth what you paid for it.

As a final note, changing perceptions of value and how money are allocated between various needs and wants by society can change the price inflation/deflation without being controlled by the money supply.  As always, there is a tenuous link (ceteris paribus).

Chuck

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-21 01:05 PM

Hey Chuck, that’s a pretty good explanation. But, it doesn’t have to be about an abstract concept like personal values. For all the reasons you list, it simply has to do with keeping the economy rolling. That is, people getting paid to do something productive so that they don’t starve or go off looting and killing other people. When not enough money is not circulating through the economy (money hoarding) that is eventually where you end up.

The problem with discussing inflation is that the word is used to mean many things. Yes, we need rising prices and that is indeed a type of inflation. But, rising prices without rising wages (wage inflation) is a real problem and is probably why people get pissed when they hear the Fed wants inflation. Moderate inflation is good when both prices and wages rise. It is bad when either one is happening and the other is not.

The Fed seems to think that they can force wage inflation (in aggregate – i.e. more hiring) by forcing price inflation. They are probably wrong.  Pumping money into the economy and it ending up in the hands of big companies will not drive up wages. The cheap money will almost certainly be used for mergers and acquisitions to reduce the number of employees at the companies.  So, rather than helping the economy, it may hurt the economy by increasing the number of layoffs.

So, the Fed is correct in wanting inflation, but probably doesn’t have the power to do so in a productive manner. Only Congress has that power and our Senate rules (super majority required to pass anything) prevent them from acting.

You can thank Republicans for blocking good policy and Senate Democrats for being a bunch of pussies back when Republicans threatened to go “nuclear” by eliminating the filibuster. The filibuster should be eliminated, but Harry Reid and most senators are probably too gutless to do it.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:24 PM

Holding steady at 2%!

“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” -Dr. Albert Bartlett

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 08:42 AM

“...Bank of America is paying his legal bills and part of his fine? That’s outrageous! ...”

Well, technically an insurance company is likely paying BoA’s portion through a “Directors & Officers” policy.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2010-10-20 01:19 PM

I can understand these policies as necessary when the directors and officers are doing the work of the company, but when they get fined for doing something nefarious, which by definition is not part of doing the work of the company, these policies should not be invoked. I am surprised a policy like this does not exclude certain criminal or civil actions.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 02:04 PM

All insurance policies have exclusions.  D&O policies usually cover the defense of claims arising out of the normal duties, and then exclude claims of violations against company policies or criminal acts.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 02:11 PM

Another thought - D&O policies have caps on coverage (like all ins policies), but even very high caps can be reached quickly.

e.g. I think I read/heard somewhere that Dick Fuld’s (Lehman Bros CEO) legal costs were adding-up so fast (because there are so many plaintiffs and claims) that he’s exceeded Lehman’s policy’s cap for his legal defense.  He’s therefore paying for everything going forward out-of-pocket.

Astute Observation by Prison for White Collar
2010-10-20 08:44 AM

Given we are in an election year, I wish someone in one of these debates would ask Jerry Brown the following:

“Mr. Brown, under your recent months as California Attorney General, you have been very vocal about going after the fraud in Bell.  In the past years since the real estate market collapsed, the media has been flooded with cases of mortgage fraud, both from the loan originators and the people obtaining the loan.  I think everyone here will agree that the fraud involved was on a much more widescale basis than what happened in Bell.  Can you please describe what your office has done to go after loan originators (including executives and loan officers/processors) as well as individuals who knowingly falsified loan documents in order to obtain a loan?”

I would ask a similar question to both gubernatorial candidates and AG candidates about if elected what they will do.  And I won’t let them out the easy way by only talking about commenting on executives.  Pin them down and ask about the actual loan officers and homeowners who knowingly committed fraud.

Astute Observation by jb
2010-10-20 08:49 AM

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Predatory-Lenders-Bankers-America—/dp/0805090460/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287589613&sr=8-1

I’ve read many books recently regarding the state of the economy/housing market, but I think that this book (published next week) will keep me up nights. It looks like it covers Countrywide and Ameriquest.

Astute Observation by alan
2010-10-20 09:12 AM

I understand you anger at Mr. Mozilla and he should go to the Federal Pen.  But, think of money like drugs.  Mr. Mozillo was just pusher, the banks, e.g. Lehman Brothers, were the “grower, suppliers and cartel” behind Mr. Mozilla.  I’d be a lot more angry at the Investment Banks than Mr. Mozilla.  Without someone to pedal these loans to, he never would have ammounted to anything.  And what about the US Government?  Who bailed out these banks at tax payer expense?

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 10:54 AM

“...Who bailed out these banks at tax payer expense? ...”

You mean, “to the taxpayers’ benefit,” no?  At least to date, the bailout of the banks is less a “bailout” and more a “vulture investor” purchase.  This investment has returned profits to the Treasury.

The key is to get out of these bank shares now while they’re still fraudulently appearing solvent.

Astute Observation by Honcho
2010-10-20 11:55 AM

I concur with Perspective.  The TARP program has been a boondoggle for the government.

Astute Observation by JDSoCal
2010-10-20 12:21 PM

Don’t forget moral hazard as well. Risk and consequences for failure is an essential element of capitalism.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2010-10-20 01:12 PM

The moral hazard with these bailouts concerns me greatly. Why will banks be prudent in the future with implied government backing?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:47 PM

Why will banks be prudent in the future

They won’t. 

We are entering the new age of Government mortgages for all.  30 years from now, FHA will be accepted by the common man as the only way to buy a house.  The idea of getting your own 30 year mortgage with a 20% down payment will be one of those things that people used to do back in the stone age.

Still waiting for 50 year mortgages to become the norm but for some reason the banks are not going for it yet.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 12:31 PM

The fed is the grower. 

Low interest rates equal super miracle grow.

Banks are distribution. 

CEOs are cartel boss. 

Loan officers and wall st brokers are pushers.

Govt is the cop looking the other way.

Astute Observation by John
2010-10-21 02:51 PM

Mozillo and many other should commit suicide and donate their assets to charity for the betterment of society.
If they go to jail, then we have to pay taxes to keep them there.

Astute Observation by FreedomCM
2010-10-20 10:19 AM

virus out of the “vile” (vial)

and I’m not quite certain whether I would prefer mozillo to be in jail or forced to live in a squalid apartment complex in anaheim with his former mortgagees

Astute Observation by Frank
2010-10-20 11:50 AM

I actually liked that homonym problem. “The vile orange lotion came out of the vial.”

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2010-10-20 01:14 PM

I fixed it.

Astute Observation by Alan
2010-10-20 11:06 AM

I wonder if anyone can now ask for equal treatment under the law? Mozilo took something over $450 million, and is being (personally) fined somewhere around $26 million, perhaps less. He’s 71, got $100’s of millions and is barred from being a company director. They might as well impose a lifetime ban on him playing center in the NBA also. So the next time anyone gets caught for theft, offer to pay 5% and keep the rest, while promising never to work as director for whoever you’ve robbed. At least with all of our problems, the US is taking leaps forward to being a more compassionate and forgiving society. grin

Astute Observation by Honcho
2010-10-20 12:00 PM

And while we’re at it, how about all of those loan mod scam attorneys?  One recently settled with the CA state AG for $1 million, despite the fact that his company took in over $10 million from defaulted borrowers looking for help without providing ANY help.  Seriously, the whole scam was to file a lawsuit and simply delay the foreclosure and collect monthly payments from the borrower that otherwise could have been going to pay their mortgage.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:00 PM

Surely mortgage security investors should be going after this deep of pockets.

Astute Observation by Bazooka_Joe
2010-10-20 11:37 AM

I’m not sure why all of this is shocking. Particularly the surprise that BofA paid his legal fees and part of his penalty. I truly believe that CW and BofA were conspiring this whole situation 10 years in the making.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 11:44 AM

When you’re a director or officer of a corporation, the company is obligated to pay for your defense if the accusations arise out of actions taken in the performance of your duties.  The company typically has an insurance policy to pay for legal fees, fines, and judgments.

Astute Observation by Alan
2010-10-20 12:45 PM

Is that a legal requirement from the State or Federal government? Or is it that directors and officers of a corporation insert into their own contracts that the company will pay for their defence and fines that come from their actions? Right next to use of the company aircraft for personal vacations, and other benefits to help them sleep peacefully and so be able to do more and better work for the shareholders.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-10-20 01:58 PM

Not sure - I have a little exposure to corporate and insurance law, but just enough to add marginal thoughts like these.

If you’re a director or officer in a corporation though, you will want the company to purchase D&O policies to cover legal costs arising out of the performance of your duties.

Astute Observation by gepetoh
2010-10-20 11:51 AM

Are we p.o’d at him for supporting and encouraging Option ARMS (which in itself seems perfectly legal), or that he hid his real concerns presumably for his own benefit (which IS crooked)?  I think the non-conventional products are dangerous, but certainly shouldn’t be illegal.  His decision to push the product the way he did may be morally questionable, but I’m on the fence about whether it should be punishable.  Having said that, he should certainly be investigated for his contradictory actions.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:17 PM

We do not need to regulate option arms.  Let the banks and MBS investors decide who is able to borrow an option arm, sans govt influence.

Why do many argue for regulation, but argue against the best, most important type of regulation - free market regulation?

Let them sell option arms until the company implodes and vanishes - that’s all the regulation we need.  The problem only reaches systemic proportions when govt subsidy is involved.

And the main problem stems from interest rate manipulation - dubbed “stimulus” by the clueless to “avoid a greater recession”.  we haven’t avoided anything.

Astute Observation by Bitter Renter
2010-10-20 12:23 PM

I know there was a lot of pooh-poohing of the NY Times journalistic integrity the other day, but I thought this article on Japan’s lost decade was quite well-done and gave me much more insight than other coverage I’ve read as to how this has been experienced by the average Japanese person:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/world/asia/17japan.html?src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB

The article also mentions the new phenomenon of Japanese microhouses.  Very neat to see the latest ways the Japanese have figured out how to make the most of relatively tiny living spaces.  I wouldn’t mind living in some of these:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128953596

Astute Observation by Bitter Renter
2010-10-20 12:24 PM

Sorry, “Times journalistic” -> “Times’ journalistic”.

Astute Observation by JDSoCal
2010-10-20 12:28 PM

The problem, Irvine Renter, is, just because you hate (justifiably so) what that scumbag Mozilo did, it’s hard to make a criminal case on this. The ARM borrowers *could* have made payments, they just didn’t. And do these foolish borrowers have any complicity in their own improvidence? They were the other half of the transaction. I think the SEC is settling because they realize proving actual crimes is going to be difficult.

A couple of great links on this:

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/option-arms-for-dummies-why-45-percent-mortgages-rates-will-do-absolutely-nothing-for-these-toxic-assets/

And here’s the scary one, especially for California RE:

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/revisiting-option-arm-data-3-big-banks-option-arm-2010-update/

Anyone who read this and could think the banks are a buy, as many talking heads on CNBC are saying, are fools.

Astute Observation by Honcho
2010-10-20 01:03 PM

I didn’t read this as his “crime” being the introduction or pushing of the ARM. 

I thought Mozilo’s greater sin was saying the company was doing fine while it was actually tanking and he was pulling all his money out.

Astute Observation by JDSoCal
2010-10-20 12:33 PM

Alan Greenspan, the ex-Chairman of the Federal Reserve of the US, said in an CNBC interview in February 2009, titled, The House of Cards:

“I have got some fairly heavy background in mathematics but some of the complexities of some of the instruments that are going into CDOs bewilders me. I do not understand what they are doing or how they got the type of returns from the mezzanines and various tranches of CDOs. And I figure, if I did not understand it and I had access to a couple of hundred PhD.s, how the rest of the world is going to understand it, sort of bewilders me.”

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:06 PM

If it takes more than 1 sentence to explain what you’re selling, it is probably illegal.  sumpthin like that.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-20 12:37 PM

Man, I couldn’t even read this whole post. I might have an aneurism if I think too much about this. It’s like we’re slowing moving back to a feudal society where the rich control everything. This douche bag basically got off scot free. He has more money than he’ll ever be able to spend. The fine might as well have been a penny. It would have the same effect as this fine.

Astute Observation by gepetoh
2010-10-20 12:54 PM

The rich have controlled everything since… well, forever.  I think capitalism is based on that notion.

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2010-10-20 01:09 PM

I don’t think the alternatives are much different.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:28 PM

Capitalism is the only system allowing hope and rights for the individual.

The issue we are dealing with now is big govt manipulated capitalism (removing fear and consequence from the market) and govt not enforcing laws when fraud, corruption, etc. takes place.

I see it as a function of this:  the closer we get to a free market, the less chance big, less-than-nimble banks and our current problems have of surviving.  The market purges and cleanses naturally but we foolishly resist it.

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2010-10-20 12:57 PM

This is what many Americans want. Glenn Beck recently told his listeners to donate directly to corporate interests, and they crashed the Chamber of Commerce’s online donations page.

Yes, this disgusts me, but I also wonder what will happen if/when these people realize how hard they’re being screwed - that may lead to something even worse!

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:37 PM

I also wonder what will happen if/when these people realize how hard they’re being screwed

Those folks know they are being screwed!  And it is the liberal boogeyman who is doing it!

MOO!

Astute Observation by Eat that!
2010-10-20 03:16 PM

Maybe we should make all rich people run for office. They seem to like spending their money that way.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-20 05:40 PM

LOL! That is truly the brightest part of this election. Two rich woman with a sense of entitlement blowing their money only to lose.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:42 PM

Maybe we should make all rich people run for office.

Or maybe the voters should stop voting for these rich pricks.  That’ll be the day!

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2010-10-20 12:56 PM

This looks like a very nice place, but:

$83,394 .......... Income Requirement

$2,790 .......... Monthly Cash Outlays

I earn a lot more than the income requirement, but I couldn’t afford $2700 per month, and that’s with no debt other than a manageable student loan obligation. I’m trying to save some money - emergency savings, 401(k), IRA, yet I still find it extremely difficult to do so.

Astute Observation by gepetoh
2010-10-20 02:03 PM

Agreed, that’s a lot for someone making $84K.  I think that number is based on the P&I being 30% of gross income?  I think it should be 30% should be off of total monthly outlay, which would make it $112K.  And then we still have to question whether the traditional 30% even makes sense with today’s cost of living.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:32 PM

$83,394 .......... Income Requirement

$2,086 .......... Monthly Mortgage Payment

At that level you would be spending almost 50% of your take-home pay on your mortgage. 

Is this realtor arithmetic?

Astute Observation by Laura Louzader
2010-10-20 06:04 PM

This place is only “affordable” to someone making $83,000 a year using a DTI of 4:1. This became acceptable during the first bubble in the late 70s and early 80s.

You are correct- you can’t really afford it if you want to save a healthy amount of money and afford the rest of your life.. like, perhaps, car ownership, and a family. These are things someone earning an above-average income ought to be able to afford, but our reliance on debt has made our lives very expensive in this country.

Increasing the acceptable DTI ratio from 2.5X income to 4X income is one of the worst turns the financial concerns ever did home buyers. I remember that prices immediately escalated steeply in response, and more conservative, cautious borrowers were effectively priced out of homes that would otherwise have been well within their means.

The overall effect has been to turn us into a country of debt serfs with an abysmally low savings rate. I feel that this lack of resilience in our population is a perfect setup for an economic disaster that just keeps rolling, and taking more people down into poverty as it continues on. Because of our lack of cash, we have no power to recover, especially since we’ve taken the run-up-more-debt-to-pay-old-debt gambit as far as we can taken, with the kind of results we could expect.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-10-20 01:59 PM

The greenspan cartoon appeals to emotion.  It assumes that a meat company, left to its own device, would sell tainted meat as a viable long term business model.  All competitors would follow suit, the greener/browner the meat the better.  Customers would flock to buy rancid meat.

And I’ve heard the argument that short term profits cloud business rationale and sometimes it does; but my question is: Which is more crucial to the survival of a company - short term profit or long term viability?

Free market consequence is the ever-looming grim reaper: beheading the unscrupulous and persuading the rest.

The govt can be corrupted; the free market cannot.

Astute Observation by Steve
2010-10-20 02:42 PM

Perhaps a quick re-read of the jungle will enlighten you to the miracles of the free market in the meat industry.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2010-10-20 08:59 PM

I think Atlas Shrugged was a great book. It really showed how intellectually stunted “free market” capitalists are.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-10-20 05:26 PM

sustained inflation

Steady growth!

Astute Observation by Scrawny Kayaker
2010-10-20 08:35 PM

Speaking of judge’s gavels (see AC/DC lyrics above), here’s a story of one or two who should be beaten with theirs until the beating is futile:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/19/AR2010101907216.html

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