Big banks foster false hope with lottery-style principal forgiveness

Jul 5th, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by JGBellHimself
2011-07-05 07:52 AM

While that news really IS new(s), what you might be missing is “The Why” of it.

What you must keep in mind is that those Big Bad Banksters (the new, improved BBB’s - if you don’t think they are good, just ask them) bought up all the mortgage originators who created all those bad ARMs and subprime RE loans in the sand states.

But, while they have been praying and pretending that all of Those People would have been foreclosed upon, and/or strategic defaulted, and/or gone bankrupt, THEY did not DO what they were supposed to do. And, some - too many - are suing them, now. The size of their legal exposure is horrendous.

You do see, do you not, that by “fixing” those bad ARMs and subprime RE loans they are cutting off the home owners future ability to sue them.

Tis called “minimizing your losses”. And, never admitting that they did anything wrong.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2011-07-05 09:03 AM

Our purchase second is with BoA. It would be a complete loss in the even of a foreclosure. Interested in refinancing months ago, I contacted BoA and offered to pay 50% in cash to settle the lien.  If it were marked anywhere near market, you’d think this would at least be something they’d consider, and possibly a starting point for negotiating a settlement.

No such luck. I was so interested in getting a near 4% 15Y mortgage that I may have gone as high as 90% to pay-off the second. BoA’s response was simply, “We don’t do that.”

I can understand their position. Their Loss Mitigation Dept can always start discussing these things with us once we’ve missed a couple payments. Why should they discount anything now, especially when they’re collecting our fully-amortized monthly payment?

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2011-07-05 09:08 AM

Public relations and free advertisement are 2 large reasons.
Reward/gaming maximization is another.  As Las Vegas, you need some random winners to keep the game going.  If everybody loses, no one will play.  If the winning as at set intervals, less people will play.  For the maximum motivation and action, rewards at randon give this highest results for the house and of course the lowest benefit for the guest.

Astute Observation by Woodbury Renter
2011-07-05 10:10 AM

absolutely spot on.

Astute Observation by Will
2011-07-05 10:37 AM

What is interesting about the listing is that the seller is cutting the price pretty quickly.  Started off over $400K not that long ago…

Astute Observation by Swiller
2011-07-05 01:36 PM

I’ve said all along that prices should have been cut to market value, BUT, loans changed to recourse. Principal reduction *WILL* happen in this market, whether it goes to the current owner, or the “loss” is covered with tax money, the reduction is happening.

Given the choices, I’d rather have the PEOPLE get a principal reduction rather then the BANKSTER get insured for running a Ponzi scheme.

But money elects, so expect the PEOPLE to get shafted and the BANKSTERS to get rich. Same ol’ same ol’.

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2011-07-05 07:56 PM

Any mass loan modification loss will be covered by the taxpayers.  Either way, the taxpayers will shafted into covering the loss of the banksters by your elected Democrat or Republirat.  A rose by any other name is still rose. 

IMHO: As you said the modification is a conversion into a recourse loan and reclassification of a defective loan into a non-defective loan—A true assessment is give for the risk factor of being underwater, poor credit of the borrower that will change from the old bogus appraisal & credit worthness of the borrower to a new stated risk factors/rating and thus no legal recourse against the bank by the GSE’s.

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-06 05:55 PM

Why not just short sale and REO and let the market value price be paid by the new/move-up (or move-down!) buyers instead of accuring to the at least partially at fault buyer and paid for by the less at fault taxpayers?

Astute Observation by DarthFerret
2011-07-05 09:42 PM

This is a quite clever strategy, actually. Just like the state lotteries, this keeps a lot of gullible loanowners “playing the game” instead of strategically defaulting.

-Darth

Astute Observation by papagalos
2011-07-06 10:27 AM

As a former broker, I can say proudly that none of my option arm borrowers are in default.  I take offense when everyone puts down this loan without truly understanding its benefits.  Option Arm was never meant for primary residence who intended to live in the property for years, nor was it meant for someone who is just a casual landlord.  The loan was designed for professional (those that handle multiproperty cashflow management) landlords.  The idea behind the loan was never as simple as pay less to the bank.  It was pay less now so the money stays in your pocket to invest simultaneously in something else.  All my borrowers knew the cashflow wasn’t theirs to keep, rather it was a loan, a far better loan then the home equity lines of credit.  When the markets started to crash these borrowers sold their rentals immediately and invested the cash in something else.  The problems that the banks find themselves in today is their own doing.  But as long as the government offers them money at 0-0.25% interest loans, why would they negotiate with the property owner?  All the foreclosures are just a temporary loss, they are recouping that with the money from the federal govt. 
The only way to force them is allow the fed to offer loans directly to consumers.

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-06 05:53 PM

A better way for the banks would be to actually increase the consequences of default, e.g., no more Fannie/Freddie insured loans for defaulters - ever, for starters.  To do this, a change of administration (if not already inevitable) would need to be helped along, since we have this President out there badmouthing the banks and blaming them and insisting that they help the underwater housesitters.

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-08 04:53 PM

E.g., http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/07/obama-we-didnt-intervene-enough-in-housing-markets

Astute Observation by John Steinsvold
2011-07-10 08:59 PM

An Alternative to Capitalism (which we need here in the USA)

Several decades ago, Margaret Thatcher claimed: “There is no alternative”. She was referring to capitalism. Today, this negative attitude still persists.

I would like to offer an alternative to capitalism for the American people to consider. Please click on the following link. It will take you to an essay titled: “Home of the Brave?” which was published by the Athenaeum Library of Philosophy:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm

John Steinsvold

Perhaps in time the so-called dark ages will be thought of as including our own.
—Georg C. Lichtenberg

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-10 11:08 PM

What u describe may (or may not) be a preferable state of affairs to reality, but because it does not reflect human nature as we know it, it is really just a pipe dream.  Even in places where money is forbidden (e.g., prison) or unknown, wealth and substitute money (e.g., cigarattes, candy, food) takes its place.

The root of all evil isn’t money.

Astute Observation by John Steinsvold
2011-07-11 08:03 PM

Truth,

Is it not human nature to do what is best for oneself? And best for his family? And best for the society in which he lives?

No, the root of all evil isn’t money. However, we have allowed the use of money to completely dictate our way of life. We seem incapable of finding a way out.

John Steinsvold

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-13 03:12 PM

Most people can’t see that far ahead, and the benefit is too nebulous.

And folks can live more or less without money, off the grid, or at least much less dependent on it than average.  However, most find this to be unappealing.  They would rather have a car and cable TV and flat screen TV.  You seem to assume they are imprisoned, and perhaps they are brainwashed, but I’d choose this lifestyle over living in the woods any day.  Money is a tool, and with it I can trade those who specialize in cleaning housing, making TVs, making cars, distributing gasoline, instead of the guy who lives in a tent in the woods, who has to do everything himself and who has relatively a more difficult life.

Astute Observation by John Steinsvold
2011-07-13 08:19 PM

Truth,

As I envision a way of life without money, we will all gain complete economic freedom in addition to and without infringement on our present freedoms.

John Steinsvold

I think the person who takes a job in order to live - that is to say, for the money - has turned himself into a slave.
—Joseph Campbell

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-13 10:59 PM

That sounds good and all, but it doesn’t work in practice, as anyone who has lived with roommates, a dorm, commune, fraternity house, workplace, or anywhere else where folks are supposed to chip in and do their part for the good of all knows.  It doesn’t work. People free load and are lazy and try to get away with as little as possible.  At least some or perhaps many or most do.  So with money, there is some accountability for this.  Without it, I work hard, they don’t, we all get the same, not fair, not something I want to be a part of (Even with it, the tax rate means I work part of my day to subsidize the lazy now.)

Your theory sounds good but your dated webpage (I enjoyed reading about the growing economy and rising stock market - ah, the good old days) and posts here don’t explain how we do away with money and have any workable system left.  Capitalism isn’t perfect, but no one has come up with anything better yet.

Astute Observation by John Steinsvold
2011-07-14 09:38 AM

Truth,

The best way to motivate people is to allow them to do the work they love to do. One of the goals of a way of life without money is to provide everyone with the opportunity to find a match between their abilities and the opportunity to serve society. If training is necessary, a free education is provided. Every effort will be made for each individual to find the work they love doing. There will be no pressure. I believe everyone has an ability or talent they want to use for the benefit of society.

In many respects, our economy will be the same. Our free enterprise system will remain in place as it is today; but no money will be exchanged. Profit will no longer be a factor and cooperation will replace competition. Government, industry and the people will work together as a team toward common goals.

John Steinsvold

“If we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.

Astute Observation by Truth
2011-07-14 12:17 PM

It would seem to me that the problem with that approach is that if everyone does what they love, we have a plethora of musicians, artists, writers, athletes, and so on, and a dearth of ditch diggers, fisherman, factory workers, and janitors.  So without money to incentivize janitors, the doctor has to spend part of his time cleaning his house, office, and hospital, unless he can trade his services for the janitor’s and the easiest way to do that, since the janitor may be in fine health and not in need of the doctor’s services that day, is to use money.

Astute Observation by John Steinsvold
2011-07-14 07:06 PM

Truth,

Yes, if everyone is free to do their “thing”, how can we satisfy the labor needs of our country particularly if shortages exist in various occupations? However, it takes only a small percentage of our work force to provide the necessities and luxuries for the now 300 million Americans and that percentage is constantly decreasing due to automation and advances in technology.

There are people who love to farm. There are people who love manufacturing products. There are people who love being storekeepers and being behind a counter to serve people. There are people who love to bake. There are people who love being carpenters, plumbers, mechanics, farmers and yes, even janitors. There will be people who love bringing the necessities and luxuries to your local store so you can help yourself.

Yes, there may be a problem in getting the menial tasks done; but with people of below average intelligence, a menial job can be a challenge. In a way of life without money, cooperation will replace competition. Thus, the most menial task becomes easier when people work together. Also, technology is constantly eliminating menial tasks. In my essay, I offered “perks” as another option to consider if shortages exist in various occupations.

John Steinsvold

Harry S. Truman said: “If you laid all the Economists end to end they’d point in every direction.”

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