jc - Aren’t we saying the same thing?
“upon satisfaction of the conditions of approvals for final map”
Aren’t some of those conditions map checking?  My view is limited to my area and I am not thinking of all the conditions, but isn’t it true that some of the map checking is still being done after tentative approval?  Or is it finished by then?  Is all map checking finished when the map becomes tentative?

"I respect the sensitivity to save the existing orchard rather than scraping it for a few more houses and generating more revenues."
At a dollar an avacado, who knows, it might turn out to be a prudent decision!

Eva - I just got done reading parts of the Subdivision Map Act.  Did you know there was such a thing?
Anywhos, jc is 99% right and I was only 5% right.  I was only looking at it from a land surveyors perspective and completely forgot about all the other junk that needs to be complied with before a final or parcel map is recorded.
But, to your question, an extension of the tentative map does not give the developer any more leeway in changing material aspects of the map.  If the developer wanted to change the location of streets or something, the developer would have to start all over again and get a new tentative map, whether the developer had a final or a tentative map.

>>Did you know there was such a thing?

I did, but the one time I went looking for a quick answer, it wasn’t so quick (for me, anyway). 

Thanks to all for your expertise and research!

IrvineRenter - 21 March 2008 12:09 PM

I would guess they would be able to get $275-$300 per square foot on new construction in 2011. That would put pricing of 3000 SF homes from $825,000 - $900,000.

I think you are right on the mark with this. 

I would even go on to say it will take 2-3 years to finish Woodbury, and 6-8 years to finish the 5 segments of PS.  We might not see OH or Laguna Crossing opening till 2016.

PadreBrian - 16 May 2008 02:42 PM

IrvineRenter - 21 March 2008 12:09 PM

I would guess they would be able to get $275-$300 per square foot on new construction in 2011. That would put pricing of 3000 SF homes from $825,000 - $900,000.

I think you are right on the mark with this.

I would even go on to say it will take 2-3 years to finish Woodbury, and 6-8 years to finish the 5 segments of PS. We might not see OH or Laguna Crossing opening till 2016.

I seriously do not see 2016 for OH. Several communities could start at he same time when the segmentation and qualities of brand are well differentiated. OH will probably start about 2012 when the luxury foreclosures are gone and no longer a price threat to the profit margin to OH. OH imo could be concurrently in the same market as LC because of the 2 locations being so different and would not compete for the same pool of buyers.

Woodbury East would be the most likely to be released first since products are built. Celedon may be modified to meet the expectations of consumers before the grand opening.

Pre-bubble products will be obsolete due to the attitude of demanding bears and existing models will likely be sold off while the remaining parcels would have to be replaced with smarter products.

In the meanwhile buyers who want a new home will get very agitated with the waiting game. The game is to see who will get desperate first.

The only reason I put OH out to 2016, 8 years from now is due to the supply of 1-4 Million dollar lots that are out there in relation to the small number of those buyers. They just aren’t there.  No doc loans with zero down are as gone as the flying doo-doo bird, and there’s only so many doctors and lawyers that needs homes.  2011 is being way to optimistic considering Irvine Ranch wants to keep OH as the top tier community. 

You’re completely right about Laguna Crossing, it’s aimed at a different market.  I will be watching this one very very closely…it’s more what I am looking for.  btw, you’re right about home builders are going to have to go back to the drawing board regarding home designs.  In the last few years it was all about the number of bedrooms you could shove into your plan. Homebuilders were lazy and everything looks the same.  From now on they are going to have to go back to the more open more outside friendly designs.

and, yeah, i totally agree. Woodbury East is most likely being redone as we speak.  I expect much more affordable homes that are more outdoor/Asian friendly.

I totally agree with you on design of floor plans. The highest end products at OH will probably be released 2014 after a couple of years of sale momentums starting 2012. What may be for sale initially could be the lowest rung products to align with the marketplace demands.

PadreBrian - 16 May 2008 03:57 PM

The only reason I put OH out to 2016, 8 years from now is due to the supply of 1-4 Million dollar lots that are out there in relation to the small number of those buyers. They just aren’t there.  No doc loans with zero down are as gone as the flying doo-doo bird, and there’s only so many doctors and lawyers that needs homes.  2011 is being way to optimistic considering Irvine Ranch wants to keep OH as the top tier community. 

You’re completely right about Laguna Crossing, it’s aimed at a different market.  I will be watching this one very very closely…it’s more what I am looking for.  btw, you’re right about home builders are going to have to go back to the drawing board regarding home designs.  In the last few years it was all about the number of bedrooms you could shove into your plan. Homebuilders were lazy and everything looks the same.  From now on they are going to have to go back to the more open more outside friendly designs.

and, yeah, i totally agree. Woodbury East is most likely being redone as we speak.  I expect much more affordable homes that are more outdoor/Asian friendly.

This is most likely outdated but zooming in using Photoshop there’s a lot mixed use properties and not a lot of super-duper large lots like Shady.  The lower right hand side seems to be single loaded streets like TRidge, but even the larger lots on the irvine side near the top (in the middle) is dual loaded, probably because they are good views from both sides, orchards in the back or views on the other side..

okay, I agree then.  Starting 2011ish with lower end, the slowly releasing…hehe I still stick with 20014-2016 for any highend stuff. Thanks’ buuble, there some huge lots on that northside…on the hill.  Nice layout.

Bubblegum - 16 May 2008 04:44 PM

This is most likely outdated but zooming in using Photoshop there’s a lot mixed use properties and not a lot of super-duper large lots like Shady.  The lower right hand side seems to be single loaded streets like TRidge, but even the larger lots on the irvine side near the top (in the middle) is dual loaded, probably because they are good views from both sides, orchards in the back or views on the other side..

What’s the link for the map ? Also, I have seen maps where it shows the street names.

Sorry. Posted twice. can you delete this one ?

This map is part of a presentation that I linked to in this Post #90 earlier in this thread (page 2).

I recently visited Settlers Park in OH and noticed construction crews were still pretty busy. ISM mentioned in a previous post that it was a new Tustin school being built.

TIC also erected two guard houses on adjacent roads leading to the Tustin side of OH (one off of Settlers rd and another parallel rd going further towards the 261). It looks like a similar setup seen at Northpark: manned gate house, one lane for visitors, two lanes with mechanical arms, RFID sensor panels, and cameras for each lane. The sign on the guard houses read “West Grove”—I guess the new name of the gated subdivision. I haven’t seen any new guard houses yet for the Irvine side of OH.

IACRenter - 12 September 2008 09:06 PM

I recently visited Settlers Park in OH and noticed construction crews were still pretty busy. ISM mentioned in a previous post that it was a new Tustin school being built.

TIC also erected two guard houses on adjacent roads leading to the Tustin side of OH (one off of Settlers rd and another parallel rd going further towards the 261). It looks like a similar setup seen at Northpark: manned gate house, one lane for visitors, two lanes with mechanical arms, RFID sensor panels, and cameras for each lane. The sign on the guard houses read “West Grove”—I guess the new name of the gated subdivision. I haven’t seen any new guard houses yet for the Irvine side of OH.

I have been fishing around for information on the new Orchard Hills school as well, as we are strongly considering Northpark and/or OH eventually….But are nervous about making the leap from IUSD to TUSD.  Not for the quality of the schools (everyone we know with kids in TUSD raves about the schools)—but for the overcrowding factor.  If we lived in Northpark we don’t want the risk of having to shuttle our child to Ladera Elem. in Tustin Ranch every morning.

Anyway, I found this article on the new school….This puts my mind at ease a bit about the overcrowding at Hicks Canyon:

TUSD Newsletter

I drove there today just to see the neighborhood and what is going on, and frankly, there were no construction crews or any kind of work going on anywhere there, just eerily quiet.
On a side note, even though I did like the orchards and the views and the setup, the location kills it all: too far from the jobs, I can’t imagine how much time it would take you to get even to the 5 freeway in the morning and then park your car there for the entire rush hour. If they are targeting people who don’t have to work to make a living, those people would always prefer closer to the beach, the prestige factor is still pretty strong… I would always pick Newport Beach over Orchard Hills if they price is the same per sq. ft…

For those that remember the ridiculously high starting price market survey postcards from OH some time back- I mentioned those to an Irvine Co employee recently and the response was “Yeah, they are definitley reconsidering those price points and are looking at bringing in some lower cost options.“  Timing is still the mystery other posters have suggested.

SCHB