I hope BKSHPR becomes BKWRITER some day.
I never really paid much attention to home design details before, but am appreciating the art more and more with each of his postings!

I like the courtyard of Tuscan Plan 1 at Tides the best.  It is big enough to live outside.  the stairs that lead to the sunken yard face the ocean, thus it gives way to ocean breeze to the sunken basement and avoids stagnant air. the courtyard is covered by 4 sides of the house, noone can pook into my courtyard. Noone can hear my conversations.  In a Santa Ana-wind day, I still can live outside because the house block the wind flow from inland.   This floor plan works when the back faces the ocean.  If it is the otherway around, the house will get hot santaana wind in the sunken yard.
The plan 2 French (?) does have stairs to the sunken yard, but it does not have direct access facing the ocean, it has less ocean breeze.
I think because the model houses were built on a high hill, so the sunken yard concept  works brilliantly.  I am not sure if the sunken courtyard  works on a flatland though. 
I have to visit some open house in Shady Canyon sometimes.

In regards to courtyards, if you are ever able to go Alhambra (the real one, not in the SGV), or Sevilla, you cansee what the Moors did with the courtyard idea.

Also, when I was in Bali in January, I did see that the traditional Balinese family “compound’ is based on a courtyard - and every family has it’s own temple.

In regards to the modern architecture/buildings of Eichler (he was the builder, but not the architect of Fairhaven), I have been in several of the houses in that tract, and I can tell you that there is a lot of maintenence for some of these houses.  Personally, I prefer Cliff May, who was the originator of taking the living space to the outdoors (the term “Ranch House” comes from him - I think May had a better sense of scale, and oriented his rooms to the outdoor space better.

There are a few Cliff May’s in Tustin, but there is a sizable development in Long Beach.

Check these out, Graph: http://www.ranchostyle.com/

Cdm,

You have good taste in architecture. Cliff May is one of my favorite. There is a book out published by Rizzolli on his ranch houses. I have been inside his homes in Rolling Hills and Rancho Santa Fe. They are understated and gorgeous. Lifestyle is casual and simple and made me forget my stressful day at work. He designed projects for production builders as well in San Diego, LA and OC. The tract in Costa Mesa hindered his imagination and creativity nonetheless better than most 1950’s tracts.

Eichler started his success in the Bay Area by Santa Clara. Most of his creations were in the South Bay between Santa Cruz and Redwood City. He did 2 tracts in So Cal but were limited in Thousand oaks and City of Orange (posted by Graph). He was a social reformer and Loved to help the inner city slum of San Francisco.

He was successful with a high rise residential tower in the Nob Hills area but the governmental processing caused him a great deal of time, money, and man power. His single story atrium courtyard developments were being neglected consequently.

His next project in the late 60’s was 2 adjacent high rise towers in the poor area of Cow Palace and he hoped to pursuade the upper middle class to take residency there but failed miserably. The towers were over budget and he was not financially and timely equipped to deal with the long arduous bureaucracy. The delayed project was finally delivered at the time of civil unrest and economic uncertainty.

No one bought so they were turned over to the government as public housing. The project was wonderful with good courtyard and plaza spaces however in the slum location these public spaces became places of crimes. Architectural merit often did not work well in poor area after 28 years the towers were imploded due to overwhelming criminal activities. This project also bankrupted Eichlers operation. He never recovered from his failure.

Lesson here is to stay within your area of expertise and do get too ambitious. Both Lennar and Standard Pacific expanded to urban projects and both are suffering with huge setbacks.

cdm - 17 April 2008 01:18 AM

In regards to courtyards, if you are ever able to go Alhambra (the real one, not in the SGV), or Sevilla, you cansee what the Moors did with the courtyard idea.

Also, when I was in Bali in January, I did see that the traditional Balinese family “compound’ is based on a courtyard - and every family has it’s own temple.

In regards to the modern architecture/buildings of Eichler (he was the builder, but not the architect of Fairhaven), I have been in several of the houses in that tract, and I can tell you that there is a lot of maintenence for some of these houses. Personally, I prefer Cliff May, who was the originator of taking the living space to the outdoors (the term “Ranch House” comes from him - I think May had a better sense of scale, and oriented his rooms to the outdoor space better.

There are a few Cliff May’s in Tustin, but there is a sizable development in Long Beach.

Check these out, Graph: http://www.ranchostyle.com/

bk, eva, and graph -

Although I like the concept of the Eichler homes, I’m admittedly a little spoiled with some of my creature comforts.  Having spent some time in Santa Clara and Orange County (My educational trail coincidentally took me to both UCI and SCU) I have been able to see some of the homes and my feeling is that they make a bit more sense in the shelter of those hills and overall cooler climate up north.  The radiant heat system was better suited to the soils up there (more clay and less expansive loam) and lack of A/C is less of an issue than in our sometimes sweltering heat.  I did jump up and down and yell at the TV when I saw one being utilized in some commercial during tax season, with some kind of ball of $$$ jumping into a pool.  My poor wife has to put up with a lot from me.

What are your thoughts on the homes John Lyttle has built in our area (as they are a personal favorite)?

thx,
IR2

edited to add: I just saw it again, and it’s a Cox Cable ad, not related to taxes at all.  Lo siento mucho.

thanks for the insights, cdm and bkshpr!

I actually think that OC is the perfect location for MCM/Eichler design.  very moderate weather, and light.  and year round gardens.

the weather in the bay area (north and west, at least) is too cloudy for the design.  east and south bay are too hot.  I don’t know how they do it out in palm springs, lots of AC i guess.

Man… BK never seems to stop amazing me. Having lived in the bay area, I am embarrassed to say, that I didn’t know Eichler designed a building in Nob Hill, and I was around that area more than most of SF. I knew about the building down by Cow Palace, but it is a crappy area and the fog rolls in there like Tenmagnet on any girl that posts a smiley face of any sort. So, there was absolutely no need to go there.

BK, do you have any good links for pics of these buildings? I am off to google it, but I have a feeling you have the good stuff stashed in your bookmarks.

I think BK should do a Cali architecture 101 class for IHBers. Maybe a general class on all of Cali at first, NorCal for the second, SoCal for the third, a review for the forth, and a final test of names, styles, failures, successes, and little Feng Shui on the final for the fifth class.

What say ye IHBers and BK? BK, just remember, you will have plenty of time to sleep when you are dead, live for the moment, and enjoy and embrace the IHB.

IrvineRealtor - 26 April 2008 04:25 AM

bk, eva, and graph -

Although I like the concept of the Eichler homes, I’m admittedly a little spoiled with some of my creature comforts.  Having spent some time in Santa Clara and Orange County (My educational trail coincidentally took me to both UCI and SCU) I have been able to see some of the homes and my feeling is that they make a bit more sense in the shelter of those hills and overall cooler climate up north.  The radiant heat system was better suited to the soils up there (more clay and less expansive loam) and lack of A/C is less of an issue than in our sometimes sweltering heat.  I did jump up and down and yell at the TV when I saw one being utilized in some commercial during tax season, with some kind of ball of $$$ jumping into a pool.  My poor wife has to put up with a lot from me.

What are your thoughts on the homes John Lyttle has built in our area (as they are a personal favorite)?

thx,
IR2

Alright, I admit it… I am no architecture guru. I wanted to take the classes in school, but they would have been just for my own fun, and wouldn’t have counted as credit for my degree. So, I had no idea who John Lyttle is, and had to do a google search for him. Eh, make sure you add “architecture” to the search if you do, otherwise some weird stuff comes up if you don’t.

The only reason I know Eichler, is that his homes here in OC are the most artistically pleasant homes I know of. They are unique enough to stand out, but still blend in with the normal tract crap homes you find here. I miss the bay area, where eclectic is the norm, and only a Gaudi design would stand out between an Eichler and a Lyttle. Ugh… I hate to do this, and I could be wrong, but the Eichler tracts are in Orange, and one is technically in 92705, an unincorporated area of Santa Ana. BK, please forgive me if I am wrong in my correction. I will agree with IR2, the design is more practical for NorCal, but the AC is needed up there too. I missed it at times up there, and I would miss it even more here. The soil is a good point but the earthquake shifts can screw up the radiant heating more than the soil. One tract here could be considered a hill (I know, I am pushing it here). Okay, maybe it is my deep down desire to move back to the Bay area, that makes me use reverse psychology to justify the equality of the Eichler homes in OC.

Anyway, the first home I found was listed with Gunther here. I knew this wasn’t IR2, because he spent too much time in SD, no mention of an edumacation, and has hair on his head. This home made me think… either Lyttle was knocked off, or he knocked off someone else in OC. This home is a lot like mine in the design, with the exposed beams, open layout, and even the fireplace feels familiar, but mine is 1 of 2 tract home designs, at least that I know of here. The difference in this home is, there are skylights, and more windows and doors. I really liked this home, and I would add what this home has, to what mine lacks at some point, or just buy another home in Orchard Hills, which ever comes first. Mmmm… good thing I have the hook up on the windows, doors, and skylights, otherwise if I hold my breath for OH, I may never live to see either.

Then… I saw this muffin top. Thanks to IR2, I almost lost my dinner. I can’t tell you how much I hate the muffin top design. This is the same crap that can be found in the old parts of Irvine, and one of the reasons why Irvine was looked down upon when it was first developed. I have said this before, and I say it again, way back when Irvine was just on the outskirts of OC, in the middle of farm land, with small a$$ lots, actually cheap, and no one wanted to buy there, because there was no community. So, they built muffin top garbage like this, and they wondered why no one wanted to live there. Why? Because, most could afford a better designed home, in a community that was around civilization, and had a lot twice the size. No, really blue collar people could buy in the “nice” areas of OC, and Irvine was just settling for the cheaper product. Irvine has really grown into an amazing and great community, but back then it was design like this, that made the vision difficult to see.

BK and EvaL, what say ye on Lyttle?

I am not familiar with Lyttle at all. He is not a purest judging from the photos unless previous owners might have remodeled the interiors. The exterior is a clean ranch style home with hip roofs except for the formal spaces where the post and beam structure is the highlight of the designs.

I do not find his work appealing. His design was an eclectic mix of various architects. He certainly copied Cliff May.

The Muffin Top is bad and I never like the fake roof called Mansard. The origin of Mansard was from France where the French Parliament tax landlords for the number of stories in a structure. To hide the top floor architects hung a vertical mansard roof so landlords paid less tax. I do like the mansard roofs in Paris but hated the mansard roofs for 7-Eleven and Jiffy Lubes.

graphrix - 26 April 2008 09:47 AM

IrvineRealtor - 26 April 2008 04:25 AM

bk, eva, and graph -

Although I like the concept of the Eichler homes, I’m admittedly a little spoiled with some of my creature comforts.  Having spent some time in Santa Clara and Orange County (My educational trail coincidentally took me to both UCI and SCU) I have been able to see some of the homes and my feeling is that they make a bit more sense in the shelter of those hills and overall cooler climate up north.  The radiant heat system was better suited to the soils up there (more clay and less expansive loam) and lack of A/C is less of an issue than in our sometimes sweltering heat.  I did jump up and down and yell at the TV when I saw one being utilized in some commercial during tax season, with some kind of ball of $$$ jumping into a pool.  My poor wife has to put up with a lot from me.

What are your thoughts on the homes John Lyttle has built in our area (as they are a personal favorite)?

thx,
IR2

Alright, I admit it… I am no architecture guru. I wanted to take the classes in school, but they would have been just for my own fun, and wouldn’t have counted as credit for my degree. So, I had no idea who John Lyttle is, and had to do a google search for him. Eh, make sure you add “architecture” to the search if you do, otherwise some weird stuff comes up if you don’t.

The only reason I know Eichler, is that his homes here in OC are the most artistically pleasant homes I know of. They are unique enough to stand out, but still blend in with the normal tract crap homes you find here. I miss the bay area, where eclectic is the norm, and only a Gaudi design would stand out between an Eichler and a Lyttle. Ugh… I hate to do this, and I could be wrong, but the Eichler tracts are in Orange, and one is technically in 92705, an unincorporated area of Santa Ana. BK, please forgive me if I am wrong in my correction. I will agree with IR2, the design is more practical for NorCal, but the AC is needed up there too. I missed it at times up there, and I would miss it even more here. The soil is a good point but the earthquake shifts can screw up the radiant heating more than the soil. One tract here could be considered a hill (I know, I am pushing it here). Okay, maybe it is my deep down desire to move back to the Bay area, that makes me use reverse psychology to justify the equality of the Eichler homes in OC.

Anyway, the first home I found was listed with Gunther here. I knew this wasn’t IR2, because he spent too much time in SD, no mention of an edumacation, and has hair on his head. This home made me think… either Lyttle was knocked off, or he knocked off someone else in OC. This home is a lot like mine in the design, with the exposed beams, open layout, and even the fireplace feels familiar, but mine is 1 of 2 tract home designs, at least that I know of here. The difference in this home is, there are skylights, and more windows and doors. I really liked this home, and I would add what this home has, to what mine lacks at some point, or just buy another home in Orchard Hills, which ever comes first. Mmmm… good thing I have the hook up on the windows, doors, and skylights, otherwise if I hold my breath for OH, I may never live to see either.

Then… I saw this muffin top. Thanks to IR2, I almost lost my dinner. I can’t tell you how much I hate the muffin top design. This is the same crap that can be found in the old parts of Irvine, and one of the reasons why Irvine was looked down upon when it was first developed. I have said this before, and I say it again, way back when Irvine was just on the outskirts of OC, in the middle of farm land, with small a$$ lots, actually cheap, and no one wanted to buy there, because there was no community. So, they built muffin top garbage like this, and they wondered why no one wanted to live there. Why? Because, most could afford a better designed home, in a community that was around civilization, and had a lot twice the size. No, really blue collar people could buy in the “nice” areas of OC, and Irvine was just settling for the cheaper product. Irvine has really grown into an amazing and great community, but back then it was design like this, that made the vision difficult to see.

BK and EvaL, what say ye on Lyttle?

bkshopr - 29 April 2008 04:54 AM

I am not familiar with Lyttle at all. He is not a purest judging from the photos unless previous owners might have remodeled the interiors. The exterior is a clean ranch style home with hip roofs except for the formal spaces where the post and beam structure is the highlight of the designs.

I do not find his work appealing. His design was an eclectic mix of various architects. He certainly copied Cliff May.

See, I will just continue with my degree in architecture from BK, as I have already learned so much.

The Muffin Top is bad and I never like the fake roof called Mansard. The origin of Mansard was from France where the French Parliament tax landlords for the number of stories in a structure. To hide the top floor architects hung a vertical mansard roof so landlords paid less tax. I do like the mansard roofs in Paris but hated the mansard roofs for 7-Eleven and Jiffy Lubes.

Now I know why a cringe every time I see a Jiffy Lube or 7-eleven.

Oh gosh, I’ve heard the name, but don’t know much about him or his company.  This one in Anaheim Hills looks nice (points to the listing agent for posting pretty pictures).  This one in Tustin is ok but looks boring (I think it needs interior paint other than white).  If it weren’t for the pool, I’d be drooling over this one.  Like any other home, if I liked it, then it would catch my interest, but the brand is lost on me.

For those who are interested in North Tustin, I found this interesting list identifying who the builders of various tracts were.

there is this lyttle in north tustin as well.  interesting, would have to see it in person, some interesting “upgrades”.

Yes, the upgrades include the use/overuse of stone in the bathrooms.  Way too much for my taste, but would that be an appealing point for the asian target buyer, bk?  My understanding is that the exterior should be stone (or even stucco) but never wood - but I’m unclear about interior appeal.  I’m soaking this up.

IrvineRealtor - 30 April 2008 02:12 AM

Yes, the upgrades include the use/overuse of stone in the bathrooms. Way too much for my taste, but would that be an appealing point for the asian target buyer, bk? My understanding is that the exterior should be stone (or even stucco) but never wood - but I’m unclear about interior appeal. I’m soaking this up.

Stones are used to built outhouses through out the countryside in China. No septic and drainage system what so ever were built. Dumps often get piled up fast and prisoners were not there often enough to shovel the manure out of there. Walls were made of stones to hide smears because no toilet paper exists in public bathrooms.

Think about the germs harvested in the mortar joints between the stones and water splash from plunging a clogged toilet. Dirt on stone surfaces is hard to see and clean. I have seen little kids smear their brown fingers along the bathroom wall in Target. Well, do you think Asian buyers like stone in the bathroom?

bk, when i first saw all the stone in those bathrooms the first thing i thought of was “how are you ever gonna clean it”.  one of my first jobs was as a maid at a hotel and i look at things a little differently than most - it doesn’t matter if it’s a floor covering, countertop, cabinet face, moulding, sink, a piece of furniture - it has to pass the “easy to clean” test.  also, the bathrooms seem rather cave-ish with all that stone.  glass sinks look pretty in pictures but don’t look so good if you don’t wipe them down after each hand wash or tooth brushing

I am not a maid and I think about the issue with common sense. Most clubs and restaurants need to hide the dirt for a high maintenance bathroom. vomitings along the sink are common in clubs and stones were often employed as back splash for that purpose.

Dark slate tiles also hide a lot of dirt as well. The health and safety code only govern the the detail for the flooring transitioning to the vertical wall surface along the base of the wall. It must not be a crisp 90 degree corner where baterias and germs could live in the tight crevice and mopping it is difficult. All public bathrooms are required to have a cove (1/4 round) vinyl base or a piece of curve tile to soften the 90 degree transition for easy cleaning.

Other than that any material could be employed for the wall and flooring material.

Higher end hotels often use a very light color marble or polished lime stone palette and white linens so the patrons could examine the premise for their cleaniness. The lower chain motels re-use busy floral pattern comforters and faux granite pattern formica to hide stains.

Finally, homeowners like the trendy use of stone at clubs and restaurants and incorporate them into their custom remodel.

anela - 30 April 2008 04:08 AM

bk, when i first saw all the stone in those bathrooms the first thing i thought of was “how are you ever gonna clean it”.  one of my first jobs was as a maid at a hotel and i look at things a little differently than most - it doesn’t matter if it’s a floor covering, countertop, cabinet face, moulding, sink, a piece of furniture - it has to pass the “easy to clean” test.  also, the bathrooms seem rather cave-ish with all that stone.  glass sinks look pretty in pictures but don’t look so good if you don’t wipe them down after each hand wash or tooth brushing

Here is an interesting Northridge mid-century modern by a different architect.  I saw it, and oh so much deferred maintenance, but a very cool design, not marred by any upgrades whatsoever. (!)

http://www.blancardi.net/Default.aspx?page=6&listingID=f9668468-6539-4db4-b355-1de827859634&ltype=ofl

JustLooking - 07 July 2008 03:57 PM

Here is an interesting Northridge mid-century modern by a different architect.  I saw it, and oh so much deferred maintenance, but a very cool design, not marred by any upgrades whatsoever. (!)

http://www.blancardi.net/Default.aspx?page=6&listingID=f9668468-6539-4db4-b355-1de827859634&ltype=ofl

Interesting posting and I like how clever the agent used the term “Mid Century home” (1950 builder craps) in borrowing the success of Julius Schulman’s legacy of “Mid Century Modern” (1940-1960 classic case study houses).

Here are the element to look for in a mid century modern. The structural system is the primary aesthetic for the interior and exterior. Seemless transition between indoor and outdoor relationship. Interior walls must extend from the inside passing through the glass line to the outside. Minimal use of inside partition walls by using bathroom and kitchen core as active and passive room divisions. Emphasis of corner glass and expansive glass in capturing view of outdoor landscape. Pitch of roof should be less than 2:12 pitch in maintaining its modern line. A single sheet of glass often extend from floor to ceiling in expressing the planar elements of walls and roof.

well, i like the cinerama, but not so much Perry Neuschatz’s home design

plus, who would live in Northridge with no A/C?  jeez