Sorry to PANDA but the vaccine “scare” really irks me…this swine flu vaccine scare is not different that Jenny McCarthy’s crazy attacks on vaccines because they may cause autism.  Stuff like this are not only scientifically inaccurate but also dangerous to society.  It is like yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone burnt popcorn in the lobby. 

Yes, some people get complications with vaccines but millions and millions of people were saved because of them. 

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million people. 

Smallpox is virtually eradicated thanks to vaccines.  It had previously kill millions of people (including an estimated 300-500 million people in the 20th century) and was running rampant as recently as the 1950s.

Polio was a debilitating disease striking everyone (including FDR) until it was largely eliminated thanks to a vaccine. 

BTW, complications of the earlier forms of the Polio vaccine had occurred once in every 750,000 treatments.  Compare that to a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in a bed, 1 in 43,700 dying from falling off of playground equipment, or 1 in 18,310 of dying as a result of making contact with a hand tool

In 1918 we didn’t have the selection of antibiotics to fight off secondary infections from being sick like we do today. (I’m not a doctor but I believe it could be the flu-induced pneumonia that would be a culprit, not the flu itself.) We also didn’t have Tamiflu then, although it doesn’t work with all strains. The flu doesn’t cause lasting damage such as paralysis like polio does before the virus leaves the body. For the last week, I’ve been on the fence and looking at both sides. I haven’t completely decided but leaning towards no.

SoCal78 - 26 October 2009 03:24 PM

In 1918 we didn’t have the selection of antibiotics to fight off secondary infections from being sick like we do today. (I’m not a doctor but I believe it could be the flu-induced pneumonia that would be a culprit, not the flu itself.) The flu doesn’t cause lasting damage such as paralysis like polio does before the virus leaves the body. For the last week, I’ve been on the fence and looking at both sides. I haven’t completely decided but leaning towards no.

I think it’s fine if one chooses not to get a swine flu vaccine but don’t use the possible complications of vaccines as a reason.  Most people who get the virus (including Lebron James) suffer no long-term effects as a result and the typical average flu symptoms.  I got the season flu a few years back and can easily say that it was one of the worst day in my life (the other being getting food poisoning).  Just about every one in my office got the flu that year and some missed up to a week of work.  Now, I get any flu vaccine I can get my hands on.

You would be shocked at the ineffectiveness of antibiotics…there is basically a couple of antibiotics that are truly effective these days.

Flus (like the HIV virus) do not kill people but rather weaken the immune system to a point where they are vulnerable to other killer diseases like pneumonia. 

The scare of this flu is several fold:

1)  It’s the first “animal” flu to affect humans.  The bird flu was bad but the effects were more economic than anything.

2)  It strike seemingly healthy individuals including teenagers and young adults.

3)  The virus is fast striking with complications occurring within 24 hours.

4)  The 1918 flu had a relative mild infection in the first phase and then came back extremely virulent a few months later. 

60 minutes did a good report on the flu two weeks ago:  http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5394553n&tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea.5

I just received word that due to a “manufacturing error” there will be no more seasonal flu shots shipped out until mid November. All production has stopped in favor of the H1N1 vaccine. I’ve been told by literally everyone I have called that I should try calling back mid November or at least 2 weeks from now.

SoCal78 - 26 October 2009 03:24 PM

In 1918 we didn’t have the selection of antibiotics to fight off secondary infections from being sick like we do today. (I’m not a doctor but I believe it could be the flu-induced pneumonia that would be a culprit, not the flu itself.) We also didn’t have Tamiflu then, although it doesn’t work with all strains. The flu doesn’t cause lasting damage such as paralysis like polio does before the virus leaves the body. For the last week, I’ve been on the fence and looking at both sides. I haven’t completely decided but leaning towards no.

If all of these post-hoc treatments (antibiotics, tamiflu, ventilators) worked so well, there wouldn’t have been 1000 deaths this fall due to flu.

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

sorry if that sounds rough, but sometimes it is worth it to hurt others feelings to get them to do the right thing.

Also consider that you may get it and be fortunate to not be terribly afflicted, but unknowingly sneeze on someone at the grocery store who is more sensitive

IrvineCommuter - 26 October 2009 03:12 PM

Sorry to PANDA but the vaccine “scare” really irks me…this swine flu vaccine scare is not different that Jenny McCarthy’s crazy attacks on vaccines because they may cause autism.  Stuff like this are not only scientifically inaccurate but also dangerous to society.  It is like yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone burnt popcorn in the lobby. 

Yes, some people get complications with vaccines but millions and millions of people were saved because of them. 

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million people. 

Smallpox is virtually eradicated thanks to vaccines.  It had previously kill millions of people (including an estimated 300-500 million people in the 20th century) and was running rampant as recently as the 1950s.

Polio was a debilitating disease striking everyone (including FDR) until it was largely eliminated thanks to a vaccine. 

BTW, complications of the earlier forms of the Polio vaccine had occurred once in every 750,000 treatments.  Compare that to a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in a bed, 1 in 43,700 dying from falling off of playground equipment, or 1 in 18,310 of dying as a result of making contact with a hand tool

Sooo…there is a decent chance I will die in the next 223 days from suffocating in my pillow?

OC Register: First public swine flu clinics are Saturday

In Orange County, 22 people have died from H1N1 complications, including four children and two pregnant women.

freedomCM - 26 October 2009 05:15 PM

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

That’s so far across the line it’s absurd. Totally classless.

tmare - 26 October 2009 04:30 PM

I just received word that due to a “manufacturing error” there will be no more seasonal flu shots shipped out until mid November. All production has stopped in favor of the H1N1 vaccine. I’ve been told by literally everyone I have called that I should try calling back mid November or at least 2 weeks from now.

tmare, I can tell you are working yourself into a panic over this. For your own sake, please step back and put this into perspective… it’s just a strain of the flu, no deadlier or more contagious than any other currently active strain. It’s far more important, if you or your child comes down with a fever, that you get anti-virals from your doctor and stay home until it passes. I am NOT saying to not look for it, just don’t get too worked up.

I’m really not getting too worked up, but I don’t think you’ve experienced anything like the flu in our house. My husband and I are both teachers and our kids are little. Everyone never gets this stuff at once but once one person gets it, it stays in the house for months, it seems that at least one person is sick until it has passed through the house twice. My kids have always had a flu shot, this will be the first year without it. My husband has had the flu in the past few years (never gets a shot) and none of us have ever had the flu, just an onslaught of colds and stomach viruses. I’m really not looking forward to the possibility of the flu. My daughter in particular seems to get hit pretty hard. Oh well, I’m just going to hope for the best and try to keep doing what we’re doing now, lots of vitamins, handwashing and hand sanitizer. Hopefully the seasonal shot will be available in a few weeks, I’m really not holding my breath for the H1N1 shot, I just don’t think it’s going to happen (at least not until the season passes).

Nude - 26 October 2009 06:17 PM

freedomCM - 26 October 2009 05:15 PM

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

That’s so far across the line it’s absurd. Totally classless.

It’s o.k. I know that freedom means well and just wants everyone to be alright so I can appreciate that. I am sure Freedom knows that it is not my desire to have such a thing occur but I am weighing the risks for our family and doing my “due diligence” before making a decision. I do not take the decision lightly to pump my kids full of anything so I will continue to read and ask questions of our doctor until the decision seems clear enough. It is simply not black and white.

”“Most of the children who had fatal H1N1 this past spring had an underlying condition,” said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the CDC” - We all have to ask ourselves if our kids (or ourselves) have asthma, chronic medical problems, neurological problems, allergies, auto-immune disorders, cerebral palsy, etc. (We do not happen to be in such a situation.) “The risk of the vaccine is not zero… and 99% of the (h1n1) cases are very mild.”

“The CDC has analyzed H1N1-related deaths and found many people who died had dual infections, including some with pneumococcus. The good news is that if you’re up-to-date on your child’s vaccines, they probably already have it. Approved in 2001 and called Prevnar, it’s routinely given to children.” - Check your kids immunization cards. I just did and realized they both received pneumococcal vaccines which protects them from 23 strains of the most common pneumococcal virsus. You see, I’m not fundamentally opposed to vaccines, as they are both up-to-date, but I’m not going to over-react either. Over-reaction is what has caused our society to abuse antibiotics, creating resistant superbugs that take us longer to overcome with more serious consequences. (Yes, I know that a bacteria is different from a virus.) Today, folks often rush to the doctor the minute they feel sick want to leave the office with a prescription. I think that’s socially irresponsible and worse than “sneezing on someone at the grocery store.”

I know that for most points anyone here makes, there will likely be a counter point that is also to be taken into consideration and that is what I’m finding in much of the articles out there. Like I said, I have not completely decided (nor did I say who of the 4 different people in our family I was referring to with the “no”), but I think we all have to carefully weigh these decisions and use discernment. We have to do risk / benefit analysis. If I were pregnant with multiples and traveling abroad, I’m pretty sure I would.

For what it’s worth, I just called Woodbury Medical Group this evening to see what the scoop is on their availability. They said we would be number 145 on the waiting list for the H1N1 if added today, for availability sometime next week. (Seasonal vaccine no longer available but maybe next month.)

freedomCM - 26 October 2009 05:15 PM

SoCal78 - 26 October 2009 03:24 PM

In 1918 we didn’t have the selection of antibiotics to fight off secondary infections from being sick like we do today. (I’m not a doctor but I believe it could be the flu-induced pneumonia that would be a culprit, not the flu itself.) We also didn’t have Tamiflu then, although it doesn’t work with all strains. The flu doesn’t cause lasting damage such as paralysis like polio does before the virus leaves the body. For the last week, I’ve been on the fence and looking at both sides. I haven’t completely decided but leaning towards no.

If all of these post-hoc treatments (antibiotics, tamiflu, ventilators) worked so well, there wouldn’t have been 1000 deaths this fall due to flu.

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

If we were having an average year we’d be running 4000 to 6000 a month.

SoCal78 - 26 October 2009 07:45 PM

Nude - 26 October 2009 06:17 PM

freedomCM - 26 October 2009 05:15 PM

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

That’s so far across the line it’s absurd. Totally classless.

It’s o.k. I know that freedom means well and just wants everyone to be alright so I can appreciate that…

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There were other ways to make the point without crossing that line, and as a new father, you would think he would know better. Wishing death upon someone’s kid is despicable, disgusting, and inhuman. While your good nature leads you to seeing the good in everyone, the only thing that remark deserves is scorn and ridicule.

Minimorty - 26 October 2009 05:25 PM

IrvineCommuter - 26 October 2009 03:12 PM

Sorry to PANDA but the vaccine “scare” really irks me…this swine flu vaccine scare is not different that Jenny McCarthy’s crazy attacks on vaccines because they may cause autism.  Stuff like this are not only scientifically inaccurate but also dangerous to society.  It is like yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone burnt popcorn in the lobby. 

Yes, some people get complications with vaccines but millions and millions of people were saved because of them. 

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million people. 

Smallpox is virtually eradicated thanks to vaccines.  It had previously kill millions of people (including an estimated 300-500 million people in the 20th century) and was running rampant as recently as the 1950s.

Polio was a debilitating disease striking everyone (including FDR) until it was largely eliminated thanks to a vaccine. 

BTW, complications of the earlier forms of the Polio vaccine had occurred once in every 750,000 treatments.  Compare that to a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in a bed, 1 in 43,700 dying from falling off of playground equipment, or 1 in 18,310 of dying as a result of making contact with a hand tool

Sooo…there is a decent chance I will die in the next 223 days from suffocating in my pillow?

Well, I’m in a panic after reading through this thread, and not because of the flu.  I have a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in my bed?  WTF?  Thankfully, I’ve already switched to down alternative.  Do minimized allergies help my odds?

Sunshine - 26 October 2009 10:44 PM

Minimorty - 26 October 2009 05:25 PM

IrvineCommuter - 26 October 2009 03:12 PM

Sorry to PANDA but the vaccine “scare” really irks me…this swine flu vaccine scare is not different that Jenny McCarthy’s crazy attacks on vaccines because they may cause autism.  Stuff like this are not only scientifically inaccurate but also dangerous to society.  It is like yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone burnt popcorn in the lobby. 

Yes, some people get complications with vaccines but millions and millions of people were saved because of them. 

The 1918 Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million people. 

Smallpox is virtually eradicated thanks to vaccines.  It had previously kill millions of people (including an estimated 300-500 million people in the 20th century) and was running rampant as recently as the 1950s.

Polio was a debilitating disease striking everyone (including FDR) until it was largely eliminated thanks to a vaccine. 

BTW, complications of the earlier forms of the Polio vaccine had occurred once in every 750,000 treatments.  Compare that to a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in a bed, 1 in 43,700 dying from falling off of playground equipment, or 1 in 18,310 of dying as a result of making contact with a hand tool

Sooo…there is a decent chance I will die in the next 223 days from suffocating in my pillow?

Well, I’m in a panic after reading through this thread, and not because of the flu.  I have a 1 in 223 chance of dying due to suffocating in my bed?  WTF?  Thankfully, I’ve already switched to down alternative.  Do minimized allergies help my odds?

I thought that stat was pretty random (and high)...I got it off of this site:  http://www.bookofodds.com/  Pretty good timewaster :D

If you add up all the odds on the site that is related to you, the expected life span of Americans would be less than 5 yrs, and need to visit ER on a daily basis.

Odd of injury due to drinking straws 1 in 100,600
odd of injury due to leaf blower 1 in 141,100
..... toothbrush 1 in 99,340
..... garage door opener 1 in 106,300

Nude - 26 October 2009 10:09 PM

SoCal78 - 26 October 2009 07:45 PM

Nude - 26 October 2009 06:17 PM

freedomCM - 26 October 2009 05:15 PM

Just think how you will feel watching your kid suffocate.

That’s so far across the line it’s absurd. Totally classless.

It’s o.k. I know that freedom means well and just wants everyone to be alright so I can appreciate that…

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There were other ways to make the point without crossing that line, and as a new father, you would think he would know better. Wishing death upon someone’s kid is despicable, disgusting, and inhuman. While your good nature leads you to seeing the good in everyone, the only thing that remark deserves is scorn and ridicule.

Nude, you have totally taken a turn for the worst lately.

It was a hypothetical to point out the worst possible outcome, not my desired outcome.

Please take a breath.

I don’t use pillows, so I’m good.

<attempt to lighten the thread>

MojoJD - 26 October 2009 02:00 PM

To further my point, look up for yourselves the death rate for the REGULAR seasonal flu and compare it to how many people have died this year from swine flu.

The average flu-complicated deaths are ~35,000-38,000 in the US.

Swine flu complicated deaths just cracked 1000.  And the year is almost over.  I’m not impressed.

This image shows the anomaly of this flu season (mainly due to H1N1). Seasonal flu usually peaks in incidence around the 10th week of the year. We are nowhere near the peak and look at how we are exceeding the # for last season. One thing to note, however, is that this uptrend may be influenced by the added paranoia of H1N1. That is, people who would not have been likely to show up at the ER last season, are coming this time.

This other image shows the anomaly in pediatric deaths due to H1N1. Again, compared to the seasonal flu of previous years, the timing is different and we have not even approached the peak of occurrences.

As far as mortality for pregnant women is concerned, they represent 6% of confirmed 2009 H1N1 influenza deaths in the United States, while only about 1% of the general population is pregnant. In general, due to the suppression of their immune system, they are also more likely to get complications from the seasonal flu. In general, the recommendation is that they get both. For those afraid of using thimerosal, the single dose vaccinations do not contain this preservative. The risk of introducing bacteria is not due to refrigeration and storage, rather through repeated insertions of needles into the same vial. The single dose vial does not have this issue (thus no need for thimerosal).

[All information from CDC]

irvine_home_owner - 27 October 2009 09:54 AM

I don’t use pillows, so I’m good.

<attempt to lighten the thread>

Those aren’t pillows, IHO…

To add my $.02:

I had the flu.
It sucked.
For a little over 6 weeks.

The hospital would only tell me that:
- I was not contagious when I came in (after two weeks)
- My treatment would be the same either way, so they would not test for H1N1
- I was fortunate to not have it complicated with pneumonia, as many others have.

You all can choose for yourselves, but for the House of Deuce it is “Veni, vidi, vaccinate.”

-IR2

IrvineRealtor - 27 October 2009 01:38 PM

You all can choose for yourselves, but for the House of Deuce it is “Veni, vidi, vaccinate.”

-IR2

Deuce, that’s dirty… “I came, I Saw, I Injected…”

IrvineRealtor - 27 October 2009 01:38 PM

irvine_home_owner - 27 October 2009 09:54 AM

I don’t use pillows, so I’m good.

<attempt to lighten the thread>

I had the flu.
It sucked.
For a little over 6 weeks.

The hospital would only tell me that:
- I was not contagious when I came in (after two weeks)
- My treatment would be the same either way, so they would not test for H1N1
- I was fortunate to not have it complicated with pneumonia, as many others have.

You all can choose for yourselves, but for the House of Deuce it is “Veni, vidi, vaccinate.”

-IR2

To add to what Deuce is saying, I had Pneumonia when I was in ICU last June and whoa Mama!! It was literally like drowning, I remember the Dr and Nurses standing over me as they tried to suck what seemed like runny Custard with a Vacuum Pipe…the machine couldn’t keep up, so I would go for the Vaccine to avoid that alone…..

It’s hard to make a descision on whether to be Vaccinated or not, it’s a very personal choice and lets face it, somewhat of a gamble, it’s even harder when you have Kids and have to make the descision for them…

I’m all for vaccination, but I can’t find a place to actually get the vaccine for my son. His pediatrician doesn’t have any and doesn’t know when they will get it (we’re on the waiting list - it’s many pages long, they told me). There are also going to be some H1N1 vaccination clinics for kids this weekend, but it’s the mist only, so it’s only for ages 2+, so my son is too young. It’s really frustrating.

If anyone has any idea where I can get an injectable vaccine for my kid, I’d love to know!

This whole shortage is actually weird. I mean this is America. I should be able to plop down a couple hundred smackeroos and get my kid a shot. Any Dr.s in the house? My offer is $250.