I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

We were wrong in Viet Nam. We were wrong in Iraq. And we are about to be wrong again in Afghanistan.

Benjamin Franklin said it best.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

Edit:
I am watching 60 Minutes this evening.

70% of Afghans are Iliterate
80% dont have Electricity.
So its up to us to give them these modern objects.
You dont use our precious military forces for these objectives ?

Go Obama. Stop the war. Bring our troops home.

Minimorty - 09 October 2009 02:04 PM

So does Obama get to keep the $1.6 mil? If so, he should donate it to an actual organization that fights for peace.

MY sentiments exactly!

green_cactus - 09 October 2009 06:00 PM

I don’t understand all the outrage and confusion. The Nobel Peace price has always been rather subjective in its nature and up to the whim of the Nobel Commitee.

The (alleged) top contenders were:

- French President Nicolas Sarkozy

I bet for most of the people on this list, it would have barely been newsworthy - or do you guys think that Sarkozy should have won instead !?!??

Reuters Article

Actually, I most certainly do.

gypsyuma - 11 October 2009 10:42 PM

Minimorty - 09 October 2009 02:04 PM

So does Obama get to keep the $1.6 mil? If so, he should donate it to an actual organization that fights for peace.

MY sentiments exactly!

I read somewhere that he mentioned he was donating the money. I’m not sure which charity(ies) he selected.

bltserv - 11 October 2009 07:57 PM

I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

We were wrong in Viet Nam. We were wrong in Iraq. And we are about to be wrong again in Afghanistan.

Benjamin Franklin said it best.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

Edit:
I am watching 60 Minutes this evening.

70% of Afghans are Iliterate
80% dont have Electricity.
So its up to us to give them these modern objects.
You dont use our precious military forces for these objectives ?

Go Obama. Stop the war. Bring our troops home.

If Obama stops the war overseas, our enemies will only grow stronger. They will train their troops. They will make devastating weapons. And they will bring the war to our soil. You dont get it, do you? There are people and organizations out there whose sole purpose is to see the demise of the United States. They will not rest until they have succeeded.

Say whatever you want about Bush. One thing is undeniable. Since 9/11, he has kept us safe.

Minimorty - 12 October 2009 08:47 AM

bltserv - 11 October 2009 07:57 PM

I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

We were wrong in Viet Nam. We were wrong in Iraq. And we are about to be wrong again in Afghanistan.

Benjamin Franklin said it best.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

Edit:
I am watching 60 Minutes this evening.

70% of Afghans are Iliterate
80% dont have Electricity.
So its up to us to give them these modern objects.
You dont use our precious military forces for these objectives ?

Go Obama. Stop the war. Bring our troops home.

If Obama stops the war overseas, our enemies will only grow stronger. They will train their troops. They will make devastating weapons. And they will bring the war to our soil. You dont get it, do you? There are people and organizations out there whose sole purpose is to see the demise of the United States. They will not rest until they have succeeded.

Say whatever you want about Bush. One thing is undeniable. Since 9/11, he has kept us safe.

Bush?  He is the one that moved us away from Afghanistan (where the people who really attack us were) to Iraq (where nothing was happening) and allowed the warlords and the Taliban to reassert themselves.  The past 8 eight years, Iraq has taken up the bulk of the U.S.‘s attention while Afghanistan becomes the wild wild west where heroin and marijuana trades became key elements of the economy.  Not only has the situation in Afghanistan not gotten better since the U.S. went in, it has gotten worse!  Oh yeah, Bush was also the one that allow Bin Laden to get away…thanks a lot for keeping us safe. 

As for the Nobel prize, I find it laughable that the GOP/right is attacking Obama for it.  He did not ask, lobbying, or request to even get nominated (let alone win it).  I can see why people think the award is premature but it’s not Obama’s fault (then again, what isn’t Obama’s fault?). 

As for the whether Obama deserves the award, I look at it a couple different ways. 

One, the award was given as a “Thank goodness, we don’t have Bush anymore” award.  There is no such thing as a the Nobel prize for anti-peace or else I am sure Bush would have gotten a couple. 

Second, the award should be seen as been given to the American people for choosing a different route in dealing with the world…Obama was given the award as the figurehead of the American people. 

Third, Obama’s change in rhetoric toward the international community, the Middle East, and belligerent nations (i.e. Iran) shows a complete shift in American diplomacy.  The U.S. is still the biggest kid on the block and no other nation can has as much influence/effect on world peace then the U.S.  The shift in American diplomacy to actually talking/listening (rather than bombing everyone) is a tremendous boost to the idea of world peace.

IrvineCommuter - 12 October 2009 09:08 AM

Minimorty - 12 October 2009 08:47 AM

bltserv - 11 October 2009 07:57 PM

I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

We were wrong in Viet Nam. We were wrong in Iraq. And we are about to be wrong again in Afghanistan.

Benjamin Franklin said it best.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

Edit:
I am watching 60 Minutes this evening.

70% of Afghans are Iliterate
80% dont have Electricity.
So its up to us to give them these modern objects.
You dont use our precious military forces for these objectives ?

Go Obama. Stop the war. Bring our troops home.

If Obama stops the war overseas, our enemies will only grow stronger. They will train their troops. They will make devastating weapons. And they will bring the war to our soil. You dont get it, do you? There are people and organizations out there whose sole purpose is to see the demise of the United States. They will not rest until they have succeeded.

Say whatever you want about Bush. One thing is undeniable. Since 9/11, he has kept us safe.

Bush?  He is the one that moved us away from Afghanistan (where the people who really attack us were) to Iraq (where nothing was happening) and allowed the warlords and the Taliban to reassert themselves.  The past 8 eight years, Iraq has taken up the bulk of the U.S.‘s attention while Afghanistan becomes the wild wild west where heroin and marijuana trades became key elements of the economy.  Not only has the situation in Afghanistan not gotten better since the U.S. went in, it has gotten worse!  Oh yeah, Bush was also the one that allow Bin Laden to get away…thanks a lot for keeping us safe. 

As for the Nobel prize, I find it laughable that the GOP/right is attacking Obama for it.  He did not ask, lobbying, or request to even get nominated (let alone win it).  I can see why people think the award is premature but it’s not Obama’s fault (then again, what isn’t Obama’s fault?). 

As for the whether Obama deserves the award, I look at it a couple different ways. 

One, the award was given as a “Thank goodness, we don’t have Bush anymore” award.  There is no such thing as a the Nobel prize for anti-peace or else I am sure Bush would have gotten a couple. 

Second, the award should be seen as been given to the American people for choosing a different route in dealing with the world…Obama was given the award as the figurehead of the American people. 

Third, Obama’s change in rhetoric toward the international community, the Middle East, and belligerent nations (i.e. Iran) shows a complete shift in American diplomacy.  The U.S. is still the biggest kid on the block and no other nation can has as much influence/effect on world peace then the U.S.  The shift in American diplomacy to actually talking/listening (rather than bombing everyone) is a tremendous boost to the idea of world peace.

Bin Laden is old, nearly dead, and on the run in the mountains of Pakistan (apparently). The Taliban is not in power, so he has no government to hide behind. He has been forced to communicate through relayed messages on foot. Bush completely disrupted Al Qaida’s terror network. I felt completely and utterly safe as an american until Obama was elected.

No, Obama did not ask to be nominated for the award. But he accepted the award, knowing full well that there were at least ten people/organizations more deserving of the award.

Obama is one of the biggest celebrities in the world. Nothing more.

bltserv - 11 October 2009 07:57 PM

I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

From todays news can you please tell them that weapons are not the answer?

N. Korea fires 5 short-range missiles

Separately, Taliban claim responsibility for weekend attack on army HQ

Clinton to press Russia on Iran, arms control

The missles in Poland and the Czech republic were to defend and intercept missles from Iran.

trrenter

Do you have any Korean friends ? Have you every really understood the Korean People ?
The North Koreans are a VERY STRONG willed people. Posture and Face mean everything in their culture.
This is typical behavior for them to show some military strength before talks.
Got to keep those military strong men feeling important in the North.

Do a little reading maybe. It just so happens that North and South are in serious talks.
Opening trade and visitation for the first time since the 50`s.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/10/113_53284.html

So what should we do with the Taliban ?  Just play hide and seek with them for endless years ?
The same way the Russian`s did for a decade ? We CANNOT win that type of war. Period.
They have the advantage of the terrain, time, and attrition. We in all honesty dont have enough
military aged men to win that type of fight. Its a fact.
The average Afghan family has 5 or 6 son`s. American`s maybe 1 or 2. There are more men of military
age in Afghanistan and more coming. And again. What are we fighting for ?
Because the Taliban helped Al Qaeda buy giving them sanctuary? Again. Do some reading.
That is the custom in this country. They give Sanctuary to fellow Muslims no matter what the politics
of the West deems politically correct.

Adding more troops is not the answer. Supporting a puppet Government wont work either.
We need to do what Pakistan will do. And thats let these people have there land and do what they want.
They can practice their form of Islam as extreme as it may be. If they attempt to attack us.
We just bomb the crap out of them. We dont need boots on the ground. Thats the mistake we keep making.

Bombing worked in Bosnia. How many men did we lose in that war ?

Minimorty - 12 October 2009 08:47 AM

bltserv - 11 October 2009 07:57 PM

I love you guys. God forbid but weapons are not the only answer.
Why must we place our weapons and our men on other foreign soils to show our strength ?

We were wrong in Viet Nam. We were wrong in Iraq. And we are about to be wrong again in Afghanistan.

Benjamin Franklin said it best.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

Edit:
I am watching 60 Minutes this evening.

70% of Afghans are Iliterate
80% dont have Electricity.
So its up to us to give them these modern objects.
You dont use our precious military forces for these objectives ?

Go Obama. Stop the war. Bring our troops home.

If Obama stops the war overseas, our enemies will only grow stronger. They will train their troops. They will make devastating weapons. And they will bring the war to our soil. You dont get it, do you? There are people and organizations out there whose sole purpose is to see the demise of the United States. They will not rest until they have succeeded.

Say whatever you want about Bush. One thing is undeniable. Since 9/11, he has kept us safe.

I don’t know about the “has kept us safe” part. After all, we’ve had 4200+ war casualties and 30,000+ wounded in Iraq (a country that had nothing to do with 9/11). You may want to rephrase that as “has kept me safe”.

BLT,

The country you want the US to become sounds like Canada why not just move there?

They have the Obama Care already and they have the same mentality as you about war.

trrenter - 13 October 2009 07:31 AM

BLT,

The country you want the US to become sounds like Canada why not just move there?

They have the Obama Care already and they have the same mentality as you about war.

This is my country and has been for many generations. Sorry if I want to make it a better place.
Just love the idea`s of the past that we should spread Democracy in the Muslim world with the end of a rifle.
That healthcare should be decided by huge corporations taking advantage of a broken system and telling sick
people that they cant be insured. While the CEO of that healthcare company makes 100`s of millions and gets busted
for post dating stock options.

Your old ideas have run their course. Make way for the future and some common sense in our country.

no_vaseline - 13 October 2009 09:13 AM

Are you saying Tutu should have won the Nobel Prize…..again?

A discussion of war always brings the heat to forums.

There is no right or wrong solution… just the reality. Even Obama realizes his promise to end our presence in the Middle East isn’t as easy as it sounded. It’s a balancing act, do we risk the lives of our soldiers or our citizens (and our soldiers)? Maybe some of you think that they are not doing anything overseas… but I’m in the camp that bringing them all home will result in more casualties on our side of the world. I guess we can just stop all international travel, build big walls on our coasts and borders and then not worry about the rest of the world.

Peace is a fantasy as long as there are people out there who despise the “Great Satan” no matter who is POTUS. Do you think if we withdraw all of our troops and keep Obama in office for the next 7 years that the extremists are going to say “Well… let’s not terrorize them any more”. Maybe we should be smarter in how we protect our interests but do any of you have a foolproof method? Because realistically… sometimes the simplest measures are the most effective. It’s about deterrents… preventative methods… after all… do you all have locks on your doors?

Now I may be criticized for hyperbole or “straw man arguing” (why is that one of the most widely used defense mechanisms in internet debates?) but it’s my opinion that there is no easy answer. Lives will be at risk either abroad or here… do you really want to wait for another 9/11 and respond after the fact? I dunno… I think the farther away we get from 9/11 the more people forget how tragic that was and how much we are at risk. While I do disagree with many of the reasons why our troops are in the countries they are, I do not undervalue the importance of our military presence and am thankful to all the brave men and women who allow me to sit behind a computer and opine on whether or not what they do means anything.

And BLT… do you really think ObamaCare is going to save everyone thousands of dollars? I think my level of service will go down and my taxes will go up.

And I do think Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for what it is. Like him or not, and despite SNL’s skits, I think his presidency has changed quite a few perceptions all over the world.

Need a skit where Kayne West interrupts Obama’s Nobel prize acceptance speech to say that he’s going to let him finish, but he just wanted to say that ________ (pick your favorite peace person here) was one of the best peace makers of all time”

irvine_home_owner - 13 October 2009 09:28 AM

A discussion of war always brings the heat to forums.

There is no right or wrong solution… just the reality. Even Obama realizes his promise to end our presence in the Middle East isn’t as easy as it sounded. It’s a balancing act, do we risk the lives of our soldiers or our citizens (and our soldiers)? Maybe some of you think that they are not doing anything overseas… but I’m in the camp that bringing them all home will result in more casualties on our side of the world. I guess we can just stop all international travel, build big walls on our coasts and borders and then not worry about the rest of the world.

Peace is a fantasy as long as there are people out there who despise the “Great Satan” no matter who is POTUS. Do you think if we withdraw all of our troops and keep Obama in office for the next 7 years that the extremists are going to say “Well… let’s not terrorize them any more”. Maybe we should be smarter in how we protect our interests but do any of you have a foolproof method? Because realistically… sometimes the simplest measures are the most effective. It’s about deterrents… preventative methods… after all… do you all have locks on your doors?

Now I may be criticized for hyperbole or “straw man arguing” (why is that one of the most widely used defense mechanisms in internet debates?) but it’s my opinion that there is no easy answer. Lives will be at risk either abroad or here… do you really want to wait for another 9/11 and respond after the fact? I dunno… I think the farther away we get from 9/11 the more people forget how tragic that was and how much we are at risk. While I do disagree with many of the reasons why our troops are in the countries they are, I do not undervalue the importance of our military presence and am thankful to all the brave men and women who allow me to sit behind a computer and opine on whether or not what they do means anything.

And BLT… do you really think ObamaCare is going to save everyone thousands of dollars? I think my level of service will go down and my taxes will go up.

And I do think Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for what it is. Like him or not, and despite SNL’s skits, I think his presidency has changed quite a few perceptions all over the world.

IHO -

I was this close to giving you a Thanks, and then you had to go and say that Obama deserved the award. Anyway, I liked the first 80% of what you had to say.

Minimorty - 13 October 2009 09:45 AM

IHO -

I was this close to giving you a Thanks, and then you had to go and say that Obama deserved the award. Anyway, I liked the first 80% of what you had to say.

It’s okay… the web would be less flame-boyant if we realize that we don’t have to agree on everything.

P.S. I would have given your Thanks to charity… heh.

Just love the idea`s of the past that we should spread Democracy in the Muslim world with the end of a rifle.

What? 

While the CEO of that healthcare company makes 100`s of millions and gets busted
for post dating stock options.

The CEO’s of the Banks, MCI, Enron, Oil Companies etc all made 1o0’s of millions of dollars.  Look at Mozillo.  I need phone service, electricity and Oil they are necessities too.  Why should they be able to make huge profits.  I would argue I need gas in my car more then I need health insurance on a day to day basis.  So we should stop oil companies from reaping big profits too. 

Blt What does your company sell?  Should the goverment step in and tell you that you can only make so much money. I bet if they set a ceiling on your earnings you would not like it.

I don’t have old idea’s.  I think the problem with this country is people are always out for their own interest even if it is not in the best interest of this country.

Your push for universal healthcare to save you money without an regard to quality of service or what it will do to R&D for drugs is the mentality I am talking about.

I would love for unicorns and rainbows to appear everywhere and make war unnecessary and make it so everyone can afford health isurance, but that is not the real world.

trrenter.

I love the line about R&D costs on Drugs.
Thats the biggest lie spread buy Big Pharma of all time.
So many people buy it too. They do spread their propaganda well dont they.

I am in the high end electronics business. Expensive hard drive arrays.
EMC, Intel, Microsoft and Seagate spend billions on R&D.
And world wide prices are always very similar on Electronics.
Why is it that Big Phama can extort the American People for higher prices ?
And the rest of the world pays market prices for the exact same drugs ?
No other Business in the world has this advantage.
And you preach about a free and open marketplace.

Well the reason they can is simple. Because the fix is in. They have bought off the Government
and they are allowed to get away with it. Its a cash cow. Its HUGE money.

And then we get to enjoy all the Drug Commercials. Broadcast TV would be in a world of hurt without all those ads. My prescription is $50.00 in Mexico or Canada for “Caduet”.  Here its $ 130.00.

Why should the “alleged” “R&D” expense be just carried on the backs of Americans only ?
Think about it.  Its such a convienient LIE. Its a rippoff pure and simple.

bltserv - 13 October 2009 10:25 AM

trrenter.

I love the line about R&D costs on Drugs.
Thats the biggest lie spread buy Big Pharma of all time.
So many people buy it too. They do spread their propaganda well dont they.

I am in the high end electronics business. Expensive hard drive arrays.
EMC, Intel, Microsoft and Seagate spend billions on R&D.
And world wide prices are always very similar on Electronics.
Why is it that Big Phama can extort the American People for higher prices ?
And the rest of the world pays market prices for the exact same drugs ?
No other Business in the world has this advantage.
And you preach about a free and open marketplace.

Well the reason they can is simple. Because the fix is in. They have bought off the Government
and they are allowed to get away with it. Its a cash cow. Its HUGE money.

And then we get to enjoy all the Drug Commercials. Broadcast TV would be in a world of hurt without all those ads. My prescription is $50.00 in Mexico or Canada for “Caduet”.  Here its $ 130.00.

Why should the “alleged” “R&D” expense be just carried on the backs of Americans only ?
Think about it.  Its such a convienient LIE. Its a rippoff pure and simple.

Nothing new here.  This is the same drum you keep beating as well.  My prescriptions cost more in the US then they do in Canada.

UMMM didn’t I suggest you move to Canada.  Great I can get prescription drugs but the Skin Cancer I just had removed after finding a specialist only took me 2 weeks to schedule.

In Canada I would still be waiting and I wouldn’t have had the specialist I saw.

Minor details.

Oh and Gas cost more here in Orange County then it does in the Inland Empire.  When can we get that fixed too.

trrenter - 13 October 2009 10:36 AM

bltserv - 13 October 2009 10:25 AM

trrenter.

I love the line about R&D costs on Drugs.
Thats the biggest lie spread buy Big Pharma of all time.
So many people buy it too. They do spread their propaganda well dont they.

I am in the high end electronics business. Expensive hard drive arrays.
EMC, Intel, Microsoft and Seagate spend billions on R&D.
And world wide prices are always very similar on Electronics.
Why is it that Big Phama can extort the American People for higher prices ?
And the rest of the world pays market prices for the exact same drugs ?
No other Business in the world has this advantage.
And you preach about a free and open marketplace.

Well the reason they can is simple. Because the fix is in. They have bought off the Government
and they are allowed to get away with it. Its a cash cow. Its HUGE money.

And then we get to enjoy all the Drug Commercials. Broadcast TV would be in a world of hurt without all those ads. My prescription is $50.00 in Mexico or Canada for “Caduet”.  Here its $ 130.00.

Why should the “alleged” “R&D” expense be just carried on the backs of Americans only ?
Think about it.  Its such a convienient LIE. Its a rippoff pure and simple.

Nothing new here.  This is the same drum you keep beating as well.  My prescriptions cost more in the US then they do in Canada.

UMMM didn’t I suggest you move to Canada.  Great I can get prescription drugs but the Skin Cancer I just had removed after finding a specialist only took me 2 weeks to schedule.

In Canada I would still be waiting and I wouldn’t have had the specialist I saw.

Minor details.

Oh and Gas cost more here in Orange County then it does in the Inland Empire.  When can we get that fixed too.

But not by a factor of x3. Thats a ripoff.

I had my Basil Cell removed “Off My Insurance”. Otherwise I am going to have a prexisting condition. Dr. in Garden Grove did it for $ 600.00 cash in 2 procedures. I got in the same week. Make sure you go every 6 months for a screen.

My sister waited on what turned out to be melanoma and almost lost her whole foot.

bltserv - 13 October 2009 10:48 AM

trrenter - 13 October 2009 10:36 AM

bltserv - 13 October 2009 10:25 AM

trrenter.

I love the line about R&D costs on Drugs.
Thats the biggest lie spread buy Big Pharma of all time.
So many people buy it too. They do spread their propaganda well dont they.

I am in the high end electronics business. Expensive hard drive arrays.
EMC, Intel, Microsoft and Seagate spend billions on R&D.
And world wide prices are always very similar on Electronics.
Why is it that Big Phama can extort the American People for higher prices ?
And the rest of the world pays market prices for the exact same drugs ?
No other Business in the world has this advantage.
And you preach about a free and open marketplace.

Well the reason they can is simple. Because the fix is in. They have bought off the Government
and they are allowed to get away with it. Its a cash cow. Its HUGE money.

And then we get to enjoy all the Drug Commercials. Broadcast TV would be in a world of hurt without all those ads. My prescription is $50.00 in Mexico or Canada for “Caduet”.  Here its $ 130.00.

Why should the “alleged” “R&D” expense be just carried on the backs of Americans only ?
Think about it.  Its such a convienient LIE. Its a rippoff pure and simple.

Nothing new here.  This is the same drum you keep beating as well.  My prescriptions cost more in the US then they do in Canada.

UMMM didn’t I suggest you move to Canada.  Great I can get prescription drugs but the Skin Cancer I just had removed after finding a specialist only took me 2 weeks to schedule.

In Canada I would still be waiting and I wouldn’t have had the specialist I saw.

Minor details.

Oh and Gas cost more here in Orange County then it does in the Inland Empire.  When can we get that fixed too.

But not by a factor of x3. Thats a ripoff.

I had my Basil Cell removed “Off My Insurance”. Otherwise I am going to have a prexisting condition. Dr. in Garden Grove did it for $ 600.00 cash in 2 procedures. I got in the same week. Make sure you go every 6 months for a screen.

My sister waited on what turned out to be melanoma and almost lost her whole foot.

I had the Moh’s procedure because I needed plastic surgery as well. 

Canada VS Us prescription drug cost

Minimorty - 13 October 2009 09:21 AM

Are you saying Tutu should have won the Nobel Prize…..again?

No.  Keep the comparisions coming.  You’ll figure it out.

no_vaseline - 13 October 2009 10:55 AM

Minimorty - 13 October 2009 09:21 AM

Are you saying Tutu should have won the Nobel Prize…..again?

No.  Keep the comparisions coming.  You’ll figure it out.

Born outside the United States?