Developers have been having trouble selling new construction for some time now. However, the available units in phase one of Woodbury East’s Ivy development, which has condos of approximately 1100 to 1500 square feet and prices that matched the smaller size, sold out shortly after the grand opening. With this in mind, will the Irvine Company be putting more emphasis on developing smaller and, therefore, more affordable homes in the near future? This is an option that is currently sparse in Orange County and not given much attention during the building-boom years.

Also, (and this is the question that I am most interested in) who were the buyers of these Ivy homes: young families, young professionals, empty nesters, investors?

In addition, do you think the main selling point of the Ivy homes in Irvine was the smaller size and, therefore, more affordable price? If so, do you think that this strategy would work as well in other Orange County cities?  Does the Irvine Company have any of these smaller, more affordable options on the drawing boards for other Orange County cities or other Irvine locations?

Finally, if you think that the smaller and more affordable feature was not the main selling point, what other feature do you think made the Ivy condos so desirable?

Thank you for the opportunity to ask these questions.

Enough with the softball questions! It is time to get down and dirty with TIC and bring up some history.

In the early 90s when the market continued to tank (and didn’t bottom until 96) you pitched the affordability product of the condo (especially since you took over some condo builders at the time), and sales for condos went up since interest rates were down. Many of those who bought then got screwed in the coming years. It sounds like you are repeating yourself with Ivy. Good job! But I feel sorry for the buyers there.

Also, you delayed Newport Coast during this time, much like you are delaying Orchard Hills, both of which you knew had high demand but not at the current WTF prices. When you got around to releasing the Newport Coast condos and SFRs in the mid-90s, you screwed the buyers of the early 90s in West Park and Tustin Ranch with your price point for a premium location being way… way lower than what they paid. Do you see this happening again? Or are you actually willing to wait for the market to come back? Because if you do… and as history shows… you are going to be developing Orchard Hills some time in 2018. I’m not kidding, history shows this is where prices will be for you to match them.

And… one final note: I understand why you maximize land value, and stuff as many stucco boxes as you can on the land, but for the love of all things holy… there are SEVERAL people here who want to have a decent lot with some freakin privacy. You think you have demand for the “affordability” product of Ivy… you bust out 1/4 acre lots, with single story homes with three car garages, with mello roos making the effective tax rate 1.5% (And for the love of gawd not have the garage as the focal point! Have you not learned anything from IHB?), then you have a huge buyer demographic. Maybe even me. Trust me… I may trash talk Irvine, but I know there are plenty of other people like me who would buy in Irvine. Sorry you couldn’t get us for your surveys, we are just too busy and actually value family time.

You do realize that the higher the density, the higher likelihood the neighborhood will go to sh*t. Look at Park Watts, er I mean West, it is one of the most dense projects you have, and look at the surrounding neighborhood… it really is the worst of Irvine. Just look at how the units from the 80s and early 90s are holding up… you know it is not what you expected. So how can you expect the high density of the neighborhoods you are building now not be the same. Seriously… see Turtle Rock, it really has held it’s value way more than any other community in Irvine. Why? Big lots with privacy. Do it… and you will make more money from the volume, but if you don’t care about the future… then I understand… by then you will be done. Your hands will be clean.

*Feel free to re-word my rant to TIC in a more professional manner. This is the forums, and I just tell it like it is.*

graphrix,

And… one final note: I understand why you maximize land value, and stuff as many stucco boxes as you can on the land, but for the love of all things holy… there are SEVERAL people here who want to have a decent lot with some freakin privacy. You think you have demand for the “affordability” product of Ivy… you bust out 1/4 acre lots, with single story homes with three car garages, with mello roos making the effective tax rate 1.5% (And for the love of gawd not have the garage as the focal point! Have you not learned anything from IHB?), then you have a huge buyer demographic. Maybe even me. Trust me… I may trash talk Irvine, but I know there are plenty of other people like me who would buy in Irvine. Sorry you couldn’t get us for your surveys, we are just too busy and actually value family time.

What do you think would be a reasonable price for the type of home in Irvine that you are suggesting here?

By the way, I am with you on the not-having-the-garage-as-the-focal-point issue.

How do you decide the median housing price in Irvine (per SF or per Door), in the process for TIC to maximize the land value?

ABC123 - 23 July 2009 11:18 PM

When is TIC going to move away from the Mediterranean/Tuscan theme?  I would like to see a different style of architecture.

Can you please tell the city to allow trees to grow to maturity before ripping them out and replacing them with seedlings?

I appreciate the decision not to develop the land near Jeffrey/405, but please don’t turn Laguna Crossing into a dense suburban sprawl.

In the same line of question. What are the plans for green development or housing with LEED certification? Los Angeles is passing a law that states any building over 7,500 sqf needs to be LEED silver certified. Anything like this in the works?

I know profit is important to any company, but taking the “vision” of the ranch into mind, what is the goal for the remaining housing communities of Irvine?  Seems to me that profit is overshadowing the ability to create unique communities that will stand the test of time. 

I feel that “density” projects can be found almost anywhere in the OC, the one commodity that many places in the OC lack is privacy and a feeling of openess.  This is a value that TIC has the potential to take advantage of, but seems lost due to maximizing land value.  I know Orchard Hills tries to address this but the previous planning maps were mainly keeping large avocado fields in the middle of the project rather than having them spread inbetween homes.  Giving more home buyers that privacy “feel” and openness rather than just having that “feel” as you drive up to your home on your 4000sq ft lot, surrounded by neighbors every 10 feet.

As USC already mentioned.. Why have CFDs levied on housing units skyrocketed over the past few years while density has also increased?

No questions.
I do want to thank all involved for doing this.

I’d like to ask if any additional land in Irvine would be preserved for agricultural uses?

Any chance of replicating Lake Mission Viejo style development in Irvine?  We could use a big lake and each HOA could vote to join the “Irvine Lake association” if they wish to do so (for additional fee).

If not, then for future high-density projects, could you possibly replicate Woodbridge?

momopi - 27 July 2009 06:48 AM

Any chance of replicating Lake Mission Viejo style development in Irvine?  We could use a big lake and each HOA could vote to join the “Irvine Lake association” if they wish to do so (for additional fee).

If not, then for future high-density projects, could you possibly replicate Woodbridge?

Hey…. isn’t Woodbridge our Lake Mission Viejo development?

I honestly don’t think that any developer in SoCal today will “waste” land with a man-made lake. The expense would be just too high and think about all those 3-car garages you would have to sacrifice.

irvine_home_owner - 27 July 2009 03:13 PM

momopi - 27 July 2009 06:48 AM

Any chance of replicating Lake Mission Viejo style development in Irvine?  We could use a big lake and each HOA could vote to join the “Irvine Lake association” if they wish to do so (for additional fee).

If not, then for future high-density projects, could you possibly replicate Woodbridge?

Hey…. isn’t Woodbridge our Lake Mission Viejo development?

I honestly don’t think that any developer in SoCal today will “waste” land with a man-made lake. The expense would be just too high and think about all those 3-car garages you would have to sacrifice.

Lake front homes = $$$!

momopi - 27 July 2009 03:46 PM

Lake front homes = $$$!

I don’t think the price premium of living next to a “flake” will make up for the lost money of building more stucco boxes in that same space. The maintenance of a lake seems pretty costly… sure, they can pass that on to the HOA but it just seems like they would rather squeeze in more homes than a body of water. Plus I don’t think the FCBs really have much desire for waterfront… just 99Ranch-front.

Maybe they’ll have room for a “flake” over in the Great Park area.

Speaking of lakes, I never knew Lake Forest had a lake until I came across this listing and I never knew there were million dollar homes there either.

ABC123 - 27 July 2009 05:42 PM

Speaking of lakes, I never knew Lake Forest had a lake until I came across this listing and I never knew there were million dollar homes there either.

They used to be a Million Dollars at the top of the market. But not any longer.
That house has been on the market for a year.

ABC123 - 27 July 2009 05:42 PM

Speaking of lakes, I never knew Lake Forest had a lake until I came across this listing and I never knew there were million dollar homes there either.

That is not a lake, it’s a water-alley. If you can’t get up on skis its not a lake.

momopi - 27 July 2009 03:46 PM

Lake front homes = $$$!

My good friend who bought a lake front home with private dock in Lake Elsinore in 2006 would disagree with that statement.

What are the Irvine Company’s plans for developing the hills by Silverado Canyon and Irvine Lake?  I have noticed countless Irvine Co. signs along fences out there. 

Truthfully describe the relationship between the Irvine Company and the Irvine City Council.

irvine_home_owner - 27 July 2009 05:11 PM

momopi - 27 July 2009 03:46 PM

Lake front homes = $$$!

I don’t think the price premium of living next to a “flake” will make up for the lost money of building more stucco boxes in that same space. The maintenance of a lake seems pretty costly… sure, they can pass that on to the HOA but it just seems like they would rather squeeze in more homes than a body of water. Plus I don’t think the FCBs really have much desire for waterfront… just 99Ranch-front.

Maybe they’ll have room for a “flake” over in the Great Park area.

Especially in Irvine.  It’s clear the Irvine Company would never give up land for a lake.  Heck, they won’t give up land for proper sized lots.

Why would TIC give up anything?  Their goal is to maximize value.  If that means higher density, a lake, or more garage, then they will build it.  Put yourself in their shoes, the more they sell, the higher the price, the more profit. 

If nobody would buy their stuff, then they would have to make changes, but people are buying Ivy and poeple will buy other developments because you are buying IRVINE.  That’s there their value is, it’s a trademark, they build that name and made it a really strong brand.  They are a great company and do what it takes to stay on top. Kudos to TIC.

Of course, I wish TIC would give me half an acre and a 4,000 sq.ft. house for cheap, but that ain’t gonna happen.  As long as someone outbids me, I must wait and wait for my turn.  Depends how many suckers are still out there, but I would not be entirely surprised if there is too many suckers out there.  At some point I’ll just pick my best alternative, don’t know what it will be, but we’ll see then.

SweetOrangeHousing - 26 July 2009 03:21 AM

Developers have been having trouble selling new construction for some time now. However, the available units in phase one of Woodbury East’s Ivy development, which has condos of approximately 1100 to 1500 square feet and prices that matched the smaller size, sold out shortly after the grand opening. With this in mind, will the Irvine Company be putting more emphasis on developing smaller and, therefore, more affordable homes in the near future? This is an option that is currently sparse in Orange County and not given much attention during the building-boom years.

Also, (and this is the question that I am most interested in) who were the buyers of these Ivy homes: young families, young professionals, empty nesters, investors?

In addition, do you think the main selling point of the Ivy homes in Irvine was the smaller size and, therefore, more affordable price? If so, do you think that this strategy would work as well in other Orange County cities?  Does the Irvine Company have any of these smaller, more affordable options on the drawing boards for other Orange County cities or other Irvine locations?

Finally, if you think that the smaller and more affordable feature was not the main selling point, what other feature do you think made the Ivy condos so desirable?

Thank you for the opportunity to ask these questions.

The last 11 years all the detached products under 1,800 sf were my prototypes such as the detached condos, 3rd story attics, and detached apartments. There is not another person on the Irvine Ranch who can invent clever compact products that also make $$$. Because of my IHB affiliation I have been black listed from future projects.

I may expand my horizon to TIC’s competition such as the Great Park with Lennar and possibly the Mission Viejo Company to offer them my creativity. What do you think IHBers?

I think TIC should hire you instead.  But if they don’t want to, then it’s their loss and you should take your talents elsewhere.

“And… one final note: I understand why you maximize land value, and stuff as many stucco boxes as you can on the land, but for the love of all things holy… there are SEVERAL people here who want to have a decent lot with some freakin privacy.”

Thanks for saying what so many of us have been thinking for years!  And I would bet it’s more than “several”.  I’m not saying they should provide such a product on the cheap, but at least offering such product would be a nice change from the pseudo-urban density available now.  There’s a reason I don’t live in LA…

  SweetOrangeHousing - 25 July 2009 08:21 PM

    Developers have been having trouble selling new construction for some time now. However, the available units in phase one of Woodbury East’s Ivy development, which has condos of approximately 1100 to 1500 square feet and prices that matched the smaller size, sold out shortly after the grand opening. With this in mind, will the Irvine Company be putting more emphasis on developing smaller and, therefore, more affordable homes in the near future? This is an option that is currently sparse in Orange County and not given much attention during the building-boom years.

  Also, (and this is the question that I am most interested in) who were the buyers of these Ivy homes: young families, young professionals, empty nesters, investors?

  In addition, do you think the main selling point of the Ivy homes in Irvine was the smaller size and, therefore, more affordable price? If so, do you think that this strategy would work as well in other Orange County cities?  Does the Irvine Company have any of these smaller, more affordable options on the drawing boards for other Orange County cities or other Irvine locations?

  Finally, if you think that the smaller and more affordable feature was not the main selling point, what other feature do you think made the Ivy condos so desirable?

  Thank you for the opportunity to ask these questions.

The last 11 years all the detached products under 1,800 sf were my prototypes such as the detached condos, 3rd story attics, and detached apartments. There is not another person on the Irvine Ranch who can invent clever compact products that also make $$$. Because of my IHB affiliation I have been black listed from future projects.

I may expand my horizon to TIC’s competition such as the Great Park with Lennar and possibly the Mission Viejo Company to offer them my creativity. What do you think IHBers?

Interesting info. I look forward to learning more about your work in general. Also, I would be especially interested in any Great Park plans that might develop. Thanks for the input.

Why is there no hamburger restaurant at Quail Hill mall?  There is every kind of food there, but no burgers.  Need to get “The Counter"or a similar upscale burger place into one of those vacant spaces.

Anonymous - 27 July 2009 10:34 PM

Why is there no hamburger restaurant at Quail Hill mall?  There is every kind of food there, but no burgers.  Need to get “The Counter"or a similar upscale burger place into one of those vacant spaces.

I haven’t been for a couple of years so who knows if it’s still there, but the Hawaiian place used to have hamburgers and I thought they were pretty good.

In addition to my earlier request of wanting bigger trees, I would like to see more yellow flowers planted.