Interesting… early 30s is leading the poll.

I have a question for BK… when your father was 65, how old was your mother? (apologies in advance if that question was too PANDA)

The mother is about the same age as the father’s youngest son who is older than bk, so my guess is that the age difference has to be more than the youngest male sexual maturity age add three years (three children), or 14 yrs.  The maximum is 65 minus the age of female child bearing age plus one (gestation time), or 50 yrs.  Back in the 19th century, which is relevant to bk’s situation , it is not uncommon to have a 65 yrs old Chinese man with 15 yrs old pregnant wives.

I think everyone mentioned everything, I guess I just would like to add one more thing…  When couples marry late, they just assume to have kids soon or immediately; for some couples we know a lot of marital issues arise after marriage, thus delaying having kids.  Plan on at least three years of solid marriage before having kids; the couples that got pregnant within the first year of marriage scare us.  Your marriage is basically on hold for the next 18 years!  You didn’t even have time to really get to know each other yet.  All I can say is that if we had kids within the first two years of marriage, the kid would be pretty screwed up…  Its tough now, but at lease we are trying to figure this out as a team, just can’t imagine having a kid and having to deal with all the drama of adjusting to each other, finances, in-laws, fights and dynamics…

roundcorners - 21 July 2009 08:08 AM

I think everyone mentioned everything, I guess I just would like to add one more thing…  When couples marry late, they just assume to have kids soon or immediately; for some couples we know a lot of marital issues arise after marriage, thus delaying having kids.  Plan on at least three years of solid marriage before having kids; the couples that got pregnant within the first year of marriage scare us.  Your marriage is basically on hold for the next 18 years!  You didn’t even have time to really get to know each other yet.  All I can say is that if we had kids within the first two years of marriage, the kid would be pretty screwed up…  Its tough now, but at lease we are trying to figure this out as a team, just can’t imagine having a kid and having to deal with all the drama of adjusting to each other, finances, in-laws, fights and dynamics…

That is sound advice, RC.

Also -

“Although older mothers may face infertility issues, may have more difficult pregnancies, and are more likely to have Cesareans (National Institute of Health), on an overall, the positives outweigh the possible problems for the women over 35 who are fueling the trend to motherhood later-among them, a group called Motherhood Later rather than Sooner, a resource for midlife mothers. Women over 38 using assisted reproductive methods adjusted in almost the same ways to pregnancy as those who were younger, and older mothers scored higher on things like ability to handle challenges and flexibility according to a study conducted in Sidney, Australia further underscoring Gregory’s results.

John Mirowsky, sociology professor at the Population Center at University of Texas who also works with the National Institute of Health says the ideal age to give birth is between 34 and 40. On the plus side he reports that those mothers experience better health, have healthier babies, and are less likely to turn to risky behavior. Much of this excellent news relates to the fact that older mothers tend to have more education and to be more financially as well as emotionally secure.

When people say: “It isn’t fair to have a child at your age.” “You may not live to see your son or daughter married.” Or, “you won’t be around to know your grandchildren.” You can reply, “I’ll be here.” Professor Mirowsky found that health problems drop steadily the longer that first birth was delayed, up to about age 34, then rise increasingly steeply, particularly after about age 40. However, The New England Centenarian Study conducted by Boston University Medical Center found that women who give birth after 40 were four times more likely to live to 100 or longer than were women who gave birth at younger ages.”

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/singletons/200810/forty-is-the-new-20-having-babies

Hehe… 40 is the new 20 having babies… nice title.

It does seem that older is “younger” now but I still think it’s better to have ‘em while you can catch ‘em.

Again, this is all personal experience but my children will never know one of their grandmothers. They’ll never meet their great grand parents which I think helps them to understand their family history. And if they wait as long as we did to have kids… I may never meet my grandchildren.

Man… I guess I am PANDA.

caycifish - 21 July 2009 11:35 AM

Women over 38 using assisted reproductive methods

Assisted reproductive methods = $$$$

If you’re lucky, you’ll only need an RX for Clomid (to stimulate ovulation) or some IUI (intra-uterine insemination.) But many are not as lucky and you can easily spend as much on a few rounds of IVF (in-vitro fertilization) as you make in a year. A healthy couple usually must wait until they have been actively trying to conceive for a year before being given these alternatives and to have insurance provide some coverage, if at all. These older patients are considered high-risk and are usually referred to an “R.E.” (reproductive endocrinologist) or high-risk O.B. These are time-consuming, wallet-draining methods. I know more people than I can count who have had to do these. (There is another site I belong to where we have all documented our journeys to parenthood.)

SoCal78 - 21 July 2009 12:06 PM

caycifish - 21 July 2009 11:35 AM

Women over 38 using assisted reproductive methods

Assisted reproductive methods = $$$$

If you’re lucky, you’ll only need an RX for Clomid (to stimulate ovulation) or some IUI (intra-uterine insemination.) But many are not as lucky and you can easily spend as much on a few rounds of IVF (in-vitro fertilization) as you make in a year. A healthy couple usually must wait until they have been actively trying to conceive for a year before being given these alternatives and to have insurance provide some coverage, if at all. These older patients are considered high-risk and are usually referred to an “R.E.” (reproductive endocrinologist) or high-risk O.B. These are time-consuming, wallet-draining methods. I know more people than I can count who have had to do these. (There is another site I belong to where we have all documented our journeys to parenthood.)

Well, sheesh!  Just rain on my parade, why don’t ya? I’m just trying to find something positive to think about considering all the finger wagging I get about the doomsday that seems to be my 35th birthday.

Anyhow, for myself, the money I may have to spend is worth it when compared to the alternatives. There are some things I cannot change, and other things I would not have changed even if I could now that I have the 20/20 vision of hindsight.  Right now, not having children is a huge blessing and I am constantly thankful for it.

For those of you who are not yet in your 30s, you have options before you.  For the rest of us, we do what we can do with whatever options we have when we decide we are ready to have children.

My apologies if I was being insensitive, Cayci. The info was not meant to be directed at you, but just put out there for general discussion. I’m not a doctor and those are just my observations from experience. I have two friends who waited until later in life. After lots of attempts at getting pregnant, they too were thankful for the road that ultimately led them to adoption. That is another route to consider when desiring kids later in life. That would be an interesting topic to discuss too, especially international versus domestic adoption. I have friends who have done both and it sounds like there are a lot of pros and cons to each. I even know someone from IHB who has done adoption and hope some day this person will discuss it here. It is really an interesting topic, especially for the Parenting section.

Cayci, I have a friend in her 20’s who can’t get pregnant. I was 37 when I got pregnant on my honeymoon, the first time we tried to get pregnant. I then got pregnant when my son was 5 months old (not planned). Yep, sometimes it only takes once and I don’t really think that problems conceiving are the rule between 35-40, more like the exception. 
Regarding RC’s comments, I just really think it depends on the people. We had essentially lived together the 3 1/2 years we were together before getting married (officially for 2) and we blended our finances when we became engaged (10 month engagement). If I was younger we probably would have waited for a few years after getting married before having kids but I’m not so sure we would have gotten married if it weren’t for the feeling that we were both ready for kids. This has worked out well for us, however I did my best to convince another friend to wait a few years after getting married (she was 28) and she didn’t listen. Now they’ve been married 4 years, they have two kids and I’d give them another 1-2 years before they divorce.

Astute Observer - 21 July 2009 06:23 AM

bkshopr - 20 July 2009 07:58 PM

My dad was 65 when I was born. My grandfather was 60 when my dad was born. My youngest older brother is almost twice my age and the same age as my mother.

bk, is your youngest older brother is still twice your age, or it was way back then when you were a two years old?  (Edit: I see that you said “is”...)

Sounds like one of those math puzzles that my kids are working on at school. LOL

As for the topic, I feel anytime after the eggs matured, but before they expired is fine.

IS almost twice my age. He was born in 1923.

caycifish - 21 July 2009 11:35 AM

roundcorners - 21 July 2009 08:08 AM

I think everyone mentioned everything, I guess I just would like to add one more thing…  When couples marry late, they just assume to have kids soon or immediately; for some couples we know a lot of marital issues arise after marriage, thus delaying having kids.  Plan on at least three years of solid marriage before having kids; the couples that got pregnant within the first year of marriage scare us.  Your marriage is basically on hold for the next 18 years!  You didn’t even have time to really get to know each other yet.  All I can say is that if we had kids within the first two years of marriage, the kid would be pretty screwed up…  Its tough now, but at lease we are trying to figure this out as a team, just can’t imagine having a kid and having to deal with all the drama of adjusting to each other, finances, in-laws, fights and dynamics…

That is sound advice, RC.

Also -

“Although older mothers may face infertility issues, may have more difficult pregnancies, and are more likely to have Cesareans (National Institute of Health), on an overall, the positives outweigh the possible problems for the women over 35 who are fueling the trend to motherhood later-among them, a group called Motherhood Later rather than Sooner, a resource for midlife mothers. Women over 38 using assisted reproductive methods adjusted in almost the same ways to pregnancy as those who were younger, and older mothers scored higher on things like ability to handle challenges and flexibility according to a study conducted in Sidney, Australia further underscoring Gregory’s results.

John Mirowsky, sociology professor at the Population Center at University of Texas who also works with the National Institute of Health says the ideal age to give birth is between 34 and 40. On the plus side he reports that those mothers experience better health, have healthier babies, and are less likely to turn to risky behavior. Much of this excellent news relates to the fact that older mothers tend to have more education and to be more financially as well as emotionally secure.

When people say: “It isn’t fair to have a child at your age.” “You may not live to see your son or daughter married.” Or, “you won’t be around to know your grandchildren.” You can reply, “I’ll be here.” Professor Mirowsky found that health problems drop steadily the longer that first birth was delayed, up to about age 34, then rise increasingly steeply, particularly after about age 40. However, The New England Centenarian Study conducted by Boston University Medical Center found that women who give birth after 40 were four times more likely to live to 100 or longer than were women who gave birth at younger ages.”

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/singletons/200810/forty-is-the-new-20-having-babies

Sorry, but as a physician I felt it was necessary to chime in. Notwithstanding what professor Mirowsky believes, there is a wealth of data available showing quite indisputably the other way, that as women advance in their 30s and 40s, pregnancies become riskier for both mother and child and more likely to have unfavorable outcomes and complications: higher risk of ectopic pregnancy, premature birth, miscarriage, stillbirth, birth defects, down syndrome and other chromosomal abnormalities, gestational diabetes (with its own risks to mother and baby), hypertension, placental problems, etc. Interestingly, it’s not just the mother’s age that matters; studies suggest that both increased maternal and paternal age may be linked to increased risk of developing autism spectrum disorders (could be a reason behind increased frequency of autistic disorders we see nowadays? No, vaccines do not cause autism, but advanced parental age may play a role…)

Also, the data on women giving birth after 40 being more likely to live to 100 doesn’t necessarily indicate that it is a good thing to delay your pregnancy to your 40s. It could easily mean that the women who were still capable to conceive after 40 were healthier than other women (i.e. being capable to become pregnant acted to “select” for healthier women, who were more likely to continue remain healthy as they aged).

Having said all this, the decision to become pregnant should be made when both partners feel they are ready for this, no matter what age they have. Only if they are older, more medical attention should be sought.

I’m not saying these to discourage or dishearten anyone. Living means dealing with risks. Risk of a woman having a child with Down syndrome increases by a factor of 10 if she becomes pregnant at 40, compared with becoming pregnant at 30. Does it mean that a 40-year old woman will definitely give birth to a child with Down syndrome? Obviously not, the probability is still quite low (about 1 in 100 births at that age.) The key is making an informed decision and doing prenatal tests (if termination is acceptable to the mother).

Also, I’m not saying that there is no benefit to parenthood at a later age - the socioeconomic stability and the ability to provide a better nest are undeniable. You can have kids at a younger age, and risk not being able to provide them with the good parenting you wanted, and it can be just as harmful. I totally agree with that, but suggesting that there are health benefits associated with pregnancy at older age is unsubstantiated and almost completely wrong.

irvine_home_owner - 20 July 2009 10:36 AM

no_vaseline - 20 July 2009 10:32 AM

I want to troll this thread so bad…........

Hey… I was thinking of you with option 9.

I was so glad to see there was an option 9! Perhaps the answer for when is the “right” age is different for everyone thus there is no “right” age? That being said, I turned 40 this year and I’ve had thoughts I never had before. I really thought it was an absolute never and I still think it is for biological children, but I’m thinking more and more and more about fostering and potentially adopting a foster.

My husband is not keen on this at all… he worries that we could get a bad seed that ruin our lives. My sister just told me about being an emergency foster, so I’m trying to warm hubby to this idea as something we could give a try. I just know we could do this and he would be such a great help and enjoy it, but he’s not buying the idea yet. However, he was anti dog and anti dog foster/rescue and to see him with the gals we’ve rescued and our Maggie Moo, you’d never know it.

There was a dog that was going to die and I just couldn’t bear it so I had to tell hubby I want you to support me in this because it’s the right thing to do. If you don’t support me in it I’m going to be really hurt. I know you don’t want to do this, but it’s very important to me and if I don’t do it I will feel awful and I really have to do this. You can say no if that’s unbearable to you, but I won’t be able to forget that I didn’t make a difference when I easily could have.  He understood and agreed, but I can’t do that with the emergency foster because both of us have to pass the test about being suitable.

It’s so frustrating because I know he would be such a great influence on a kid and he would enjoy it. I need to get my work hours down to normal and when I do, I really hope I can convince him to give it a shot.

Some woman lied about her age to her doctor and had twins in her 60s. She set the Guiness World record. She recently died at 66 and the boys are 3 years old.

I am lucky as my kids ages & their grandparents ages all line up (old enough + not too old) and they can all go do things together (ex. go for a hike or whatever).  It is really nice for both generations.

irvine_home_owner - 21 July 2009 11:57 AM

Hehe… 40 is the new 20 having babies… nice title.

It does seem that older is “younger” now but I still think it’s better to have ‘em while you can catch ‘em.

Again, this is all personal experience but my children will never know one of their grandmothers. They’ll never meet their great grand parents which I think helps them to understand their family history. And if they wait as long as we did to have kids… I may never meet my grandchildren.

Man… I guess I am PANDA.

Essay on this today in Newsweek:

How Old Is Too Old?
Why the death of a 68-year-old new mom made me rethink the limits of parenthood.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/208022/?gt1=43002

The New England Centenarian Study conducted by Boston University Medical Center found that women who give birth after 40 were four times more likely to live to 100 or longer than were women who gave birth at younger ages.”

Based on experiments breeding animals for longevity, it’s not waiting to have children that makes you live longer; it’s having longevity genes lets you have children later. People who are likelier to die earlier will just fail to have children if they wait long to conceive. People have mentioned that the health and birth defect risks start increasing after 35. This is true, although later pregnancies are still very likely to work out fine. However, the risk of not being able to conceive ever starts becoming significant around 35, and the risk is much higher than that of having a child with chromosomal defects and such. Some women can conceive into their late forties, sure, but not all.

The combination of society and biology is tough on women. BA at 22, professional degree at 25, a few years to get established and bam, there she is in her 30’s with only a few years (or none) before biology starts being an issue. That’s a real tight schedule - I certainly never could have gotten it worked out with my complicated life and multiple career changes. I don’t want to hijack, but sometimes I wonder if it would make more sense (in our society) for people to have children around 20 but for children to be raised by grandparents.

From my personal experience, I felt emotionally and financially ready to get married at 27/28 and have my first child at 30. Unfortunately, I am now 32 and my wife and I don’t have a baby yet. As you can tell… I want one really bad. I think it is sooo cool that baby could have similar facial features as you. What i hear a lot from some of my couple friends is that they wish they had more time getting to know each other before the baby arrived. I can totally relate to that.

You know.. I think woman are more open to adopting a child than men are. At first I was totally against it because as kid i saw a lot of movies and sitcoms where the adopted children grows up and then looks for their real biological parents. The worst is when they are all grown up and yell at you, ” You guys aren’t my real parents!”

Have any of you adopted children before? Do you know of anyone who has? Would any of you recommend it?

Curious Panda.

PANDA - 26 July 2009 06:36 PM

From my personal experience, I felt emotionally and financially ready to get married at 27/28 and have my first child at 30. Unfortunately, I am now 32 and my wife and I don’t have a baby yet. As you can tell… I want one really bad. I think it is sooo cool that baby could have similar facial features as you. What i hear a lot from some of my couple friends is that they wish they had more time getting to know each other before the baby arrived. I can totally relate to that.

You know.. I think woman are more open to adopting a child than men are. At first I was totally against it because as kid i saw a lot of movies and sitcoms where the adopted children grows up and then looks for their real biological parents. The worst is when they are all grown up and yell at you, ” You guys aren’t my real parents!”

Have any of you adopted children before? Do you know of anyone who has? Would any of you recommend it?

Curious Panda.

I’m so sorry that parenthood hasn’t happened for you yet. I have Korean friends who have actually returned to Korea for fertility treatments and another set of Korean friends who are considering doing the same. Best of luck and don’t give up hope.

We’re going through the adoption process now. We’ve attended our classes, had our paired, individual, and network interviews, passed our DMV checks, criminal background checks, employment verification, filled out dozens of pages of questionnaires, found respite providers, and I forget what else. We are now in the “matching phase” where the county shows children’s files to us and our files to children’s social workers (and sometimes children) looking for a “match”. Obviously I haven’t actually experienced having a child but when I see families I sure want one.

I’ve talked with many who have adopted and they are almost all very positive about it, even the ones who have ended up with what most would consider nightmare situations (drug-addicted runaways, multihour temper tantrums every day - these people are mostly adopting older kids who have gone through serious trauma).

I don’t think women are more open to adopting; I think they just want children more - especially very young children where teaching and mentoring aren’t good substitutes.

Hope it all works out for you, Panda. It’s not clear what you’ve been doing and I don’t intend to stick my nose where it doesn’t belong but if you’ve been trying for 2 years without results I hope you’re seeing a good fertility doctor. After that long there’s a good chance of a biological issue. Some fertility issues are easily fixed and some are insoluble - I would want to know where I stood on that before choosing adoption, especially if having a child that looks like me were important to me.

FairEconomist - 25 July 2009 12:01 PM

 

The combination of society and biology is tough on women. BA at 22, professional degree at 25, a few years to get established and bam, there she is in her 30’s with only a few years (or none) before biology starts being an issue. That’s a real tight schedule - I certainly never could have gotten it worked out with my complicated life and multiple career changes.

So true. It’s not easy. The modern world offers more educational and career opportunities for women, but the drawback is that it’s not always easy for women to squeeze in having kids when they’re most able to biologically (20s & early 30s).

SoCal78 - 21 July 2009 12:06 PM

caycifish - 21 July 2009 11:35 AM

Women over 38 using assisted reproductive methods

Assisted reproductive methods = $$$$

If you’re lucky, you’ll only need an RX for Clomid (to stimulate ovulation) or some IUI (intra-uterine insemination.) But many are not as lucky and you can easily spend as much on a few rounds of IVF (in-vitro fertilization) as you make in a year. A healthy couple usually must wait until they have been actively trying to conceive for a year before being given these alternatives and to have insurance provide some coverage, if at all. These older patients are considered high-risk and are usually referred to an “R.E.” (reproductive endocrinologist) or high-risk O.B. These are time-consuming, wallet-draining methods. I know more people than I can count who have had to do these. (There is another site I belong to where we have all documented our journeys to parenthood.)

I believe in Massachusetts fertility treatment is covered 100% by health insurance. 
I think there are three states where fertility is covered 100% under insurance.

FairEconomist - 25 July 2009 12:01 PM

The combination of society and biology is tough on women. BA at 22, professional degree at 25, a few years to get established and bam, there she is in her 30’s with only a few years (or none) before biology starts being an issue. That’s a real tight schedule - I certainly never could have gotten it worked out with my complicated life and multiple career changes. I don’t want to hijack, but sometimes I wonder if it would make more sense (in our society) for people to have children around 20 but for children to be raised by grandparents.

Or we, as a society, could just pay people enough to have a reasonably decent standard of living on one income and truly respect, appreciate, and value in-home work and caregiving, rather than give it lip service to that effect. 

I’m not picking on you for your comment, but rather pointing out that the dilemma is really one of our own making.

We were driving north on 5 the other day, my 9 year old saw the mountains looking particularly contrasty in the sunset, and said “look dad, they look like a videogame!” For him, videogames are the preferred reality.

Raising kids is real. Work, with its artificial incentives, targets, and achievements, is a videogame. No wonder parents prefer the structured work/videogame environment.

One solution is for the gov’t to run extensive daycare, so that parents can play their work videogames.

Another is to make raising kids more like a videogame, and people do that by overdosing on “activities”, “test scores”, etc

Yet another is to move to Iowa.