I can’t really justify having three cars in my family, my husband and I already carpool to work as it is. I got even by insisting that the mini-van was fully loaded with leather, wood trim, navi system and of course, the essential for long trips: DVD player. It may be a minivan but it’s actually fun to drive (and least for me).

bltserv - 05 July 2009 09:21 AM

USC

Nice pick. M3 is a great ride. Its not the Porsche but it will get the job done.
And I think your good for using it for business as well. There is some “write off” mileage
for sure. Excellent price. Now is the time to buy these used higher end cars.

But still second best German Car made. LOL.

If my business keeps picking up I may go for a used “F” car next year and sell my AMG.
You only live once and I am getting up there on lifes odometer.

Enjoy the new ride !!!

Thanks BLT, I figured I sacrificed enough so I thought I’d treat myself a little bit.  I’m gonna be using it about 75% for business as it’ll be my second car (the Accord will remain my daily driver to my W2 income job) so the net cost is even that much lower.  I’ll keep my fingers crossed that your business picks up some more so you can get that “F” car, I know they have come down in price a good bit too.  When you do get it, I want to be one of the first ones to get a ride in it. 

caycifish - 05 July 2009 12:25 PM

What’s all this lame talk about “define” and “depends”.  You buy fun stuff because it’s fun.  It doesn’t have to define anything. Sometimes a car or a purse is just a car or a purse.  Chill out. 

And I don’t think anyone was being literal about the object having anything to do with manhood, but rather the sacrificing of your own happiness and the possible crisis you could bring upon your family later if you sacrifice it too much for too long.  I think it is possible for a man to be a father and be himself at the same time.

This thread reminds me of the diet advice I read in magazines all the time: if you don’t allow yourself to have a little bit of the thing you crave and makes you happy, then you will probably binge later and regret it.

And, about Graph and fatherhood: our sacrifice would likely be that we would pay for 3 cars.  I would have my sportscar, he would have his sportscar, and a third car to toss the kids in.  Who says sacrifice = denial?  Sometimes sacrifice = paying more to reduce risk and increase happiness.

Trojanman - awesome car. I approve of the color.

Hey… blame graph for starting the “lame talk” about defining manhood.

While a 3-car family might be nice… not all of us can throw money around for that… especially in this economy with these gas prices. We need that extra dough for diapers, then education and then their own car and then college.

Not having a sportscar isn’t the end of manhood… nor is it a sacrifice… once you have kids… you tend to think less about those things. But don’t worry, those cravings come back once you hit 50-60+ and become an empty nester. By then I’ll have the latest solar/water powered Mercedes hovercraft.

irvine_home_owner - 05 July 2009 11:01 PM

Hey… blame graph for starting the “lame talk” about defining manhood.

Man… what is with you and RC? First you have this bromance with the polls, now you both miss my jokes. You guys are meant to be BFFs, or at least start up a juicy bromance. Just because RC digressed to his love for his Dakar yellow M3, and how he really wishes that he could have a car like that now, doesn’t measure manhood. It’s cool, at least you are down with bumping Dora the Explorer in your minivan, but RC hasn’t accepted this fact. In fact, he has openly admitted he fights the cultural pathology. At least you are not co-dependent on something to help you justify it, er try to explain it, you just roll with the punches and love it. For that, I totally respect you. 

While a 3-car family might be nice… not all of us can throw money around for that… especially in this economy with these gas prices. We need that extra dough for diapers, then education and then their own car and then college.

Not having a sportscar isn’t the end of manhood… nor is it a sacrifice… once you have kids… you tend to think less about those things. But don’t worry, those cravings come back once you hit 50-60+ and become an empty nester. By then I’ll have the latest solar/water powered Mercedes hovercraft.

I think this is the difference in you and me, and several others here. My priority is not to have kids after you get married just because that is what society says you do, but to have my financial ducks in a row before I do have kids, if I ever do. I would rather not have kids if it meant a financial or life style strain on me. I want my kids to have the best, but I also want to be financially able to do the things I want to in the process. Selfish? Yes, but it is also very selfless for the kids. I don’t want to make sacrifices, or whatever it is you call it when you have kids that you will know only when you do have kids, I want to be able to provide for them/kids and for myself in the process. I’m not just talking about buying an M3, but the car that I want. I’m a frugal bastard when it comes to cars. For example, my buddy bought an 93 E36 for $8k with 100k miles on it, I then went out and bought a 97 E36 for less than $7k with 100k miles on it. I will find a deal for a car that I want, when I want it. I am patient enough to do that. But no matter what, I will drive what I want to drive and feel comfortable in. I spend a lot of time in my car, and probably more time in it to come, and I want to be driving a car that I feel comfortable in and feel safe in. I’m not going to feel that way in a minivan, no matter how comfy the amenities are, or what gawd supposedly tells me.

Manhood aside, being able to buy a car I want, whether the kid trashes it is my goal. I want to not give a fawk, because it is just things. But, I do want to ride in comfort, and the comfort I am seeking is AWD at the moment for under $20k, like this A4…

Try to get a minivan for $17k, that is 3 years old, with leather, with less than 40k miles, that kicks a$$. I don’t care if the back seat is too small for a baby seat, that is what the trunk is for. Have you seen the trunk space in the Audi A4? It’s FTW! You can get golf clubs plus two kids in there, no problem.

graphrix - 06 July 2009 01:47 AM

I don’t care if the back seat is too small for a baby seat, that is what the trunk is for.

ROFL!  That oughta minimize both the noise and the smell in the passenger cabin.

Oh graph… you like to snark but you don’t like to be a snarkee.

Let’s recap here:

1. Graph goes all macho on RC about getting his balls back and forgoing the paternal instinct to get the M3 and even takes the time to poke a little fun at IHO.
2. IHO responds with the same snark (although initially misdirected at USC because IHO is stupid) and points out on the fact that many fathers don’t really care about what cars they drive, they may lust for them… but paternal instinct prevails.
3. Cayci plays “Stand By Her Man” and now a snark-fest starts taking a more interesting tone.
4. IHO responds with a reality check because sometimes what we plan as single adults or DINKs doesn’t always pan out regardless of “financial ducks”, but tries to lighten the mood again with the quip about a hovering MBZ.
5. Graph, who now has hypocritis because not only is he accusing others of missing his jokes but he missed the jokes on him, now has to go into a lengthy explanation of what Cayci was trying to say when most of us already understand the intent, but also realize the reality.

The A4 may be cost-efficient… but 4-door sedans aren’t as functional as minivans… or even SUVs. That’s my opinion, of course, but having had a 4-door sedan when my first kid was born and then going to a minivan… made a world of difference. Parents need to lessen the number of steps to get kids in and out of cars, when they’re babies, you have to carry their seat, their diaper bag and everything else, so you don’t have the freedom of trying to fit between parked cars, pulling open the door just enough so you don’t ding the M3 next to you but wide enought to swing that car seat into place and hoisting all the baby stuff in (not to mention bending over and into a low sedan to make sure everything is secure). Then when they’re old enough to walk, you’re carrying all their junk and food and your hands are full and they’re too young to pull the doors open themselves (and not ding the M3) so a push of a button makes that happen (those big sliding doors are also great for adults because it’s so much easier for them to climb in an out of your vehicle).

So it’s true… it is some mystical all-logic-and-planning-goes-out-the-window force “that you will only know when you have kids”... let’s revisit this thread in X years when you’re asking me which is better, the Honda Odyssey, the Toyota Sienna or the VW Routan. Or maybe by that time, BMW and MBZ will be making minivans too so you won’t have to lop the balls all the way off.

/snark

I think it’s apparent that what I see as “being able to afford kids” is different from other folks around here. If you haven’t already paid off the cars you have, and you can’t afford to pay for the new junk you need for the kids, including a child-friendly vehicle if that’s what you feel you need, then use birth control.  If you don’t feel you need an extra car, that’s perfectly fine, but I would see a need for it.

If you have your ducks in a row, there are no issues. No 3rd car payment. Fewer fights about money. You will have a plan for who works and who doesn’t and for how long. You will have money in a savings account to pay for future baby-sitters and other expenses to keep you sane and in a happy marriage, and you will have a plan for how to keep filling the account when you use the money. The list goes on. There are no financial sacrifices if you plan well (too bad you can’t bank your time before having kids, too!). Lesson: don’t acquire expenses you can’t afford, including children. And if folks who hang out on a site like this get their panties in a twist about such a statement, I will definitely see the irony.

However, I understand that my view that children are not necessities and are one of the most frivolous, high-maintenance luxury items you can acquire is rare (and arguably controversial). And I will likely think that way until such a day that I give birth, the hormones wash over me, and I am no longer capable of thinking coldly and rationally on the subject. Instinct is a bitch, and I know it.

Having kids is hard enough…at least you can bank money beforehand.  It’s one thing you can do to help yourself out.  I have one friend who is in therapy for post-partum depression after she had her second kid last Fall (and I can’t really have her over yet again after I noticed her not having the motivation to parent her male toddler in my full-of-breakable-things house), another who is due next month and is on insulin twice a day due to gestational diabetes, and a third who spent the first year of her daughter’s life sleep deprived and too tired to care about much, and now she can sleep but is freaking out over missing adult conversation (I can’t call her unless I have at least an hour set aside because she won’t shut up).  A lot of these things are just a possibility when you have kids, and I’d rather do whatever I can before the fact to make it easier.

Thread totally and completely hi-jacked.

Pretty soon this single macho guy car thread will have to be moved to the parenting section (how the hell does that happen?). Cayci, I’m not so sure that your friend who just had the second child is going through postpartum depression. Having the second is a major shock (can’t really explain just how complete the shock is), the first is so much fun (when you have another person helping you), you just figure you are going to have more fun with two. What you fail to realize at the time is that the first child doesn’t represent an entire giving up of oneself, the second one does. The third one from what I’ve seen puts you into complete lock-down mode for about a year and any children after that are much easier because you’ve long ago accepted that you no longer have a life outside of your children.

actually the first one is already a complete lock down for us…  can anyone say on Saturday just as the party was getting started; um,, it’s 6:00pm, yeah we have to go, bath time!

Hey. This thread was about USC`s new M3. What the heck happened ?
Now we are talking about Mini Vans with DVD`s and having your 3rd Kid ?
Yikes.

Cayci: Do you have any friends who LOVE having kids?

Mostly everyone I know would have it no other way and they all wished they started earlier… including ourselves. We did that whole plan, get our finances straight, buy our house, have our careers set and then have kids thing… but now looking back… we probably would have done just a few years after getting married. As much worry and difficulties they bring… the trade-off is absolutely worth it and then some. Sure… maybe traipsing around NYC would have been easier without them but having them experience Times Square, the Statue of Liberty, Central Park… all the stuff they see on TV…  and even just the airplane ride… was way more fulfilling.

I just don’t want you to think that having kids is a negative experience… after all… you do deal with Graph on a daily basis so it’s practically the same thing (hey-yohhh!).

Rerail:

Although when I was younger, I wanted a sports car (lusted after the BMW 7 sports coupe and Lexus SCs)... I’m more of a truck/SUV guy. I would take one of those Range Rover SEs or the MBZ GL if I were looking for a man-toy.

bltserv - 06 July 2009 10:25 AM

Hey. This thread was about USC`s new M3. What the heck happened ?
Now we are talking about Mini Vans with DVD`s and having your 3rd Kid ?
Yikes.

Haha Tell me about it.  Btw, what a great image!  The point of the thread was to inform the folks on the forum that penfed offers a great customer service experience along with great rates….in summary, use them for you car financing needs.  I still don’t know we took a detour towards the parental thread topics.  haha Carry on…

irvine_home_owner - 06 July 2009 08:07 AM

Oh graph… you like to snark but you don’t like to be a snarkee.

Let’s recap here:

1. Graph goes all macho on RC about getting his balls back and forgoing the paternal instinct to get the M3 and even takes the time to poke a little fun at IHO.
2. IHO responds with the same snark (although initially misdirected at USC because IHO is stupid) and points out on the fact that many fathers don’t really care about what cars they drive, they may lust for them… but paternal instinct prevails.
3. Cayci plays “Stand By Her Man” and now a snark-fest starts taking a more interesting tone.
4. IHO responds with a reality check because sometimes what we plan as single adults or DINKs doesn’t always pan out regardless of “financial ducks”, but tries to lighten the mood again with the quip about a hovering MBZ.
5. Graph, who now has hypocritis because not only is he accusing others of missing his jokes but he missed the jokes on him, now has to go into a lengthy explanation of what Cayci was trying to say when most of us already understand the intent, but also realize the reality.

The A4 may be cost-efficient… but 4-door sedans aren’t as functional as minivans… or even SUVs. That’s my opinion, of course, but having had a 4-door sedan when my first kid was born and then going to a minivan… made a world of difference. Parents need to lessen the number of steps to get kids in and out of cars, when they’re babies, you have to carry their seat, their diaper bag and everything else, so you don’t have the freedom of trying to fit between parked cars, pulling open the door just enough so you don’t ding the M3 next to you but wide enought to swing that car seat into place and hoisting all the baby stuff in (not to mention bending over and into a low sedan to make sure everything is secure). Then when they’re old enough to walk, you’re carrying all their junk and food and your hands are full and they’re too young to pull the doors open themselves (and not ding the M3) so a push of a button makes that happen (those big sliding doors are also great for adults because it’s so much easier for them to climb in an out of your vehicle).

So it’s true… it is some mystical all-logic-and-planning-goes-out-the-window force “that you will only know when you have kids”... let’s revisit this thread in X years when you’re asking me which is better, the Honda Odyssey, the Toyota Sienna or the VW Routan. Or maybe by that time, BMW and MBZ will be making minivans too so you won’t have to lop the balls all the way off.

/snark

No harm, no foul IHO.  I just wanted to let everyone one that penfed should be their first stop when it comes time to look for a auto lender.  The M3 isn’t the most baby friendly car out there, bu I have seen many BMW fanatics have a baby step or two in the rear.  I believe the car got a 5-star rating in terms of collisions (one of the safest cars out there).

I had the new m3 Sedan. It was a great car. Unfortunately I was rear ended and the car was totaled. The accident was pretty bad but I came out of it with no injuries.

I had kids also and it was a decent family car when it needed to be, but also kicked ass on the track.

rick_r - 06 July 2009 01:49 PM

I had the new m3 Sedan. It was a great car. Unfortunately I was rear ended and the car was totaled. The accident was pretty bad but I came out of it with no injuries.

I had kids also and it was a decent family car when it needed to be, but also kicked ass on the track.

That’s a nice car.

rick_r - 06 July 2009 01:49 PM

I had the new m3 Sedan. It was a great car. Unfortunately I was rear ended and the car was totaled. The accident was pretty bad but I came out of it with no injuries.

I had kids also and it was a decent family car when it needed to be, but also kicked ass on the track.

Sorry I meant I have kids.

PENFED is great, but I had to pay $20 to join the national military family association and $5 to open an account to qualify. Other than that can’t beat the rates, I got mine a little over a year ago at the 4.25% rate I R jealous of the 3.99%.

Well, karma’s a bitch! Just got back from replacing all four low profile performance tires on my ride. $800 Yikes. I won’t be poking fun at the MVPs(MiniVanPeeps) anymore. 

BTW, RC I like your new ride. I was driving through Woodbury yesterday and couldn’t help but check out the guy in a brand new red farrai with the “Bimmers are road kill” bumper sticker.

Minivans chew tires too… probably worse than sportscars. My dadmobile has gone through 4 sets of tires already… I asked the tire guy why and he said that most people tend to drive minivans like cars (fast accelerations, speedy turns etc) so it’s really rough on the rubber… whether that’s true or just his way to sell me more tires… I’m not sure.

Mcdonna1980 - 06 July 2009 02:42 PM

Well, karma’s a bitch! Just got back from replacing all four low profile performance tires on my ride. $800 Yikes. I won’t be poking fun at the MVPs(MiniVanPeeps) anymore. 

BTW, RC I like your new ride. I was driving through Woodbury yesterday and couldn’t help but check out the guy in a brand new red farrai with the “Bimmers are road kill” bumper sticker.

Unless that guy encounters a supercharged or turbo charged BMW, then it’s a different story (some have “AMG ETR” or “FCAR ETR” vanity plates.

irvine_home_owner - 06 July 2009 03:19 PM

Minivans chew tires too… probably worse than sportscars. My dadmobile has gone through 4 sets of tires already… I asked the tire guy why and he said that most people tend to drive minivans like cars (fast accelerations, speedy turns etc) so it’s really rough on the rubber… whether that’s true or just his way to sell me more tires… I’m not sure.

We had a honda Odyssey Touring. Had to change all four tires at 35000 miles. Sold it at 55K. Now we have a European V8 SUV, it feels a lot securer on the highway then the Odyssey. We don’t miss the van at all, but was helpful when the kids were small.

irvine_home_owner - 06 July 2009 03:19 PM

Minivans chew tires too… probably worse than sportscars. My dadmobile has gone through 4 sets of tires already… I asked the tire guy why and he said that most people tend to drive minivans like cars (fast accelerations, speedy turns etc) so it’s really rough on the rubber… whether that’s true or just his way to sell me more tires… I’m not sure.

Just found this out the hard way last week, our 2007 Honda needed all new tires with only 20,000 miles on them. There’s a lawsuit on those tires pending against Michelin due to the fact that buying/servicing these tires is next to impossible without going to the dealer ($325 per tire + rotating and alignment). This is the first time I’ve spent over $1000 on a car that is only 2 years old. Total ripoff! This same sentiment (the weight of the car) was repeated to me about minivans and tires last week, IHO.

tmare - 06 July 2009 04:01 PM

Just found this out the hard way last week, our 2007 Honda needed all new tires with only 20,000 miles on them. There’s a lawsuit on those tires pending against Michelin due to the fact that buying/servicing these tires is next to impossible without going to the dealer ($325 per tire + rotating and alignment). This is the first time I’ve spent over $1000 on a car that is only 2 years old. Total ripoff! This same sentiment (the weight of the car) was repeated to me about minivans and tires last week, IHO.

So you have the pax system.  The suit is settled, pending final judge approval.  in your case, you will get reimb based on prorated amount assumign the tire should last 36K…you will get (36000-20000)/36000 = 44% of your total cost back.

Honda misled me, and I won’t buy another honda if I can help it. Spent $2600 to replace tires and fix tires ( nail puntures cost $170 each to repair) during three and half years of the van ownership.

Tmare, not sure you noticed: the Odyssey is ver noisey on the freeway by any standards.

Interesting.  I’ve gone through three sets of tires on my Honda with less than 70,000 miles.  I got them at costco, so I just amused they were cheap and that’s why they wore out so quickly.  The costco guy claimed it was because most of my driving is on surface streets and someone else told me it was because costco uses nitrogen and that wares them out faster.  My other car had over 100,000 miles and I never had to replace the tires.

ABC123 - 06 July 2009 05:44 PM

The costco guy claimed it was because most of my driving is on surface streets and someone else told me it was because costco uses nitrogen and that wares them out faster. 

There’s a lot of misinformation out there.  Nitrogen fills are better than air, plain and simple.  No drawbacks aside from the cost, which is included in the price of the tires at Costco.  Not sure what “surface streets” have to do with tire wear; perhaps he meant that stop-and-go driving behavior can wear out tires faster, which is true to a small extent.

I caution anyone against judging a tire by its lifespan or price.  Both are funtions of many factors, including safety.  A grippy tire will wear out faster, but also stop quicker, all else being equal.  For the most part, the best thing you can do is to keep your car’s alignment correct, to keep the tires properly inflated, and to buy tires that meet the manufacturer’s specifications.  Pay attention to all the little details, such as speed and load ratings.  Tirerack.com is an excellent resource for this kind of info.  The last thing you want to do is compromise safety just to save a penny or two per mile.  When you consider how much you spend on gas, insurance, maintenance, etc per mile, tire costs are practically in the noise.  Also, rotate rotate them per the schedule in the owner’s manual and have them balanced at the same time.

I’m reading the comments and so far nothing has made me cringe yet.  The last set of tires I bought for my sedan cost $1200 and they’ll probably last 20,000 miles.  My coupe’s tires are a little cheaper, but it goes through rears every 8000 miles or so.