No doubt, i’m SO happy I got rid of apartment at Park One before the implosion started in earnest.  I do keep an eye on them though.
-bix

if watermark feels like a glorified apt bldg, its probably because it IS an apt bldg.  be wary of condo conversions.  soundproofing, parking, and common area conditions (owners will typically be more thoughtful of common areas than renters) are major considerations.  upgrades were likely made in order to sell these units as condos but many aspects of the bldgs can not be changed.  for example, at avenue one, a true condo complex, you actually park on your floor.  for me personally thats a huge plus to not have to deal with elevators and spending 5 min to go back and forth from my car several times a day.

charlesriver—i have several friends renting at avenue one and watermarke.  $2000-2500 for a 2 bedroom place is the range depending on the unit.  so using a very generous 150 multiplier tells me those units are worth somewhere between $300-375k range.  so the $380-430k range you mention is pricey.  just food for thought.

Just some added insight into Watermarke, my ex bought the same one bedroom you’re looking at in phase one back in mid 2005 and only paid $315k.   Granted that was a 1st floor unit but she got some pretty nice upgrades.  Take it from me - Don’t overpay for a small one bedroom condo that will be worth at least $50 - $100k less in 2 - 3 years. 

I was thinking the same thing.

Bix- you would really consider buying one of these 800 sq ft. shoeboxes for 300K? Its seems to me that for a 1bdrm positive cash flow unit you should be looking for one at 250K MAX.

I think Avenue One might have also originally been built as apartments.  KHov bought it from the original developer at some point during construction.  I don’t remember who the original developer was.

I said I would consider buying it, once you figure in all the fees and everything you realize you have about 1-2 years of rent raises before things catch up to you.  I would rather things catch up to me than to try and time the market, i’m just not that smart. 
Plus look at the rent anywhere near the loon-a-versity, it will catch up WAY faster to a 300k mortgage than "regular" rent raises. 
anyway, good luck
-bix

My wife and I started our lease here in October; Beckman model on the third floor, paying $1650 plus utilities.  We can summarize Watermarke this way; they are glorified apartment - hotel rooms.  We overlook the dog park which is nice but there is not enough separation from the neighbors directly across from us.  I work from home so I hear bad trance music somewhere overhead or next to us.  The granite counter tops, crown moldings and hardwood floors are nice but now it all just feel sort of cold and sterile.  My wife likes the place but it was just not “homey” like it was in Tustin Ranch. We hear traffic from Campus and for the price we would NEVER buy here.

OH did I mentioned last night we had false FIRE ALARMS!  AT 12:30AM!!!  We were settled in bed and it woke everyone up.  Inside our unit, we have sirens that went off; when I got dressed and went into the hallways, there were loud sirens and blinking lights.  I went down to the Club House and the concierge was running around, there were also lots of angry residents I’m sure.  The fire truck came and the alarm was finally turned off after about 20 minutes.  My wife and I went back in; but the alarm came back on!  It went off and on for the next 15 minutes.  And the same thing happened about 3 weeks ago.  So there is defiantly something wrong with the fire system.

Other than that, some positives are; the gym is nice; we had a lovely party in the game room, with spacious kitchen facilities and three living room TVs.  I love the free gourmet coffee.  The screening room is nice, we been watching the Children’s Matinee, once a month on Sundays.  The monthly get together are nice, we attended November’s Sunday Brunch.  We missed December’s Casino Night.  We try to use the Club House, and it seems that a lot of residents do, there seems to be a party almost every weekend.  The library (daily WSJ) is nice but we haven’t played basketball or tennis yet.  But we try to use the smaller Jacuzzi at the smaller pools.  Overall people are nice and friendly, lots of young professionals. 

Was in the Club House the other day and ran into a broker taking pictures; he mentioned that he was checking out the short-sale units, there are about 22 units for sale now; and more than half were short-sales and foreclosures.  Again, the units are “fancy” but not really homey.  My wife and I probably not renew our lease and would definitely not buy here…

~RC

Casino night? it almost sounds like a senior assisted living place ) and my idea of a dream neighbor is a neighbor I never see or hear…

DO NOT LIVE HERE!!!

Recent Watermarke Developments…

Again, sorry for beating this to the ground, but lately the alarm system is out of control.  These two alarm guys are totally incompetent.  I don’t really know why the system is malfunctioning but there is almost a false alarm every other week.  The concierges are completely useless, but that is a separate complaint.  I can not tell the countless inconvenient times the alarm would go off.  I work sometimes from home and my wife is pregnant in bed some days.  Not to mention our cat is frighten every time.  The alarm goes off and on well into the late evenings.  Each unit has a siren in our living room, so along with the hall sirens and lights we get blasted inside.

I’m not sure about the 3000 side, I don’t know if anyone can comment on that side, but I can sure hear sirens echoes sometimes from the 3000 side.  But we rent from the 2000 side.

Also, there is a major construction lawsuit over the quality of the buildings.  Our unit was selected by the law firm to inspect the quality of construction.  We are just renters so we didn’t allow the inspection since they were going to cut large panels from the dry wall, concrete and ceilings.  We can see literally holes everywhere, in the hallways, from the paneling and in each unit, interior / exterior walls, balconies and floors.  Needless to say there are dust, construction noise and debris everywhere!

The concierges again are completely useless.  They gossip about the tenants as soon as they walk away.  They completely lack customer service.  When I called to see if my wife needed to evacuate while in the shower, due to an alarm the lady laughed at the situation.  “It is not funny” I said!  And she didn’t even apologize, just mentioned “oh, it’s ok, just another false alarm”.  They get so many complaints, and I know that can’t be a fun job, but as soon as the resident leaves, they swap stories and gossip left and right about “who did what”, “I can’t believe this or that”.  They are completely unprofessional; and the sad truth is that some residences can over hear them gossiping and gripping in the business center and upstairs in the game room and library; yes they are that loud!  It gets worse, the head manager P*** is no better.

I don’t know what else to say, there are certainly pros & cons to living here.  Lately it’s been a lot more cons.  We are so glad that we are not owners; and we can’t wait until our lease is up.  Do not be fooled into the Watermarke hype!  This place is completely overrated.  This place certainly has the appearance of wealth, but like most of the OC pathology; it is only a façade.  Please feel free post specific questions, as there is so much I can comment on if you are deciding on moving here.

charlesriver - 20 January 2007 10:45 AM

we saw Avenue One, was hesitating. and then I saw some Watermarke on market, at not much more expensive than Avenue One, but has better amenities. Current Sale for 1br1b, 635 sq. is 379k(the cheapest).

Similar Unit Now

Check this one, exactly the same layout, now $255k. Down 32.7% in 18 months.

Deal!

Hopefully CharlesRiver didn’t buy then.  I did a quick search and I found a 1,123 2bd/2b for $399k.

Roundcorners,

Your experience sounds pretty bad!  I’d like to link another thread that I started about Watermarke and its associated schools:  http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2431/

Basically if you live at Watermarke and have school aged children, they will be assigned to Santa Ana schools.  Most people don’t realize that, so I put out a caution and a discussion followed.

Best of luck to you until you clear out of that lease.

roundcorners - 19 June 2008 12:42 AM

DO NOT LIVE HERE!!!

Recent Watermarke Developments…

Again, sorry for beating this to the ground, but lately the alarm system is out of control. These two alarm guys are totally incompetent. I don’t really know why the system is malfunctioning but there is almost a false alarm every other week. The concierges are completely useless, but that is a separate complaint. I can not tell the countless inconvenient times the alarm would go off. I work sometimes from home and my wife is pregnant in bed some days. Not to mention our cat is frighten every time. The alarm goes off and on well into the late evenings. Each unit has a siren in our living room, so along with the hall sirens and lights we get blasted inside.

I’m not sure about the 3000 side, I don’t know if anyone can comment on that side, but I can sure hear sirens echoes sometimes from the 3000 side. But we rent from the 2000 side.

Also, there is a major construction lawsuit over the quality of the buildings. Our unit was selected by the law firm to inspect the quality of construction. We are just renters so we didn’t allow the inspection since they were going to cut large panels from the dry wall, concrete and ceilings. We can see literally holes everywhere, in the hallways, from the paneling and in each unit, interior / exterior walls, balconies and floors. Needless to say there are dust, construction noise and debris everywhere!

The concierges again are completely useless. They gossip about the tenants as soon as they walk away. They completely lack customer service. When I called to see if my wife needed to evacuate while in the shower, due to an alarm the lady laughed at the situation. “It is not funny” I said! And she didn’t even apologize, just mentioned “oh, it’s ok, just another false alarm”. They get so many complaints, and I know that can’t be a fun job, but as soon as the resident leaves, they swap stories and gossip left and right about “who did what”, “I can’t believe this or that”. They are completely unprofessional; and the sad truth is that some residences can over hear them gossiping and gripping in the business center and upstairs in the game room and library; yes they are that loud! It gets worse, the head manager P*** is no better.

I don’t know what else to say, there are certainly pros & cons to living here. Lately it’s been a lot more cons. We are so glad that we are not owners; and we can’t wait until our lease is up. Do not be fooled into the Watermarke hype! This place is completely overrated. This place certainly has the appearance of wealth, but like most of the OC pathology; it is only a façade. Please feel free post specific questions, as there is so much I can comment on if you are deciding on moving here.

This Texas wrap product is a great density product but bad for the residents. The fear of getting raped in the parking structure prevented many single gals from buying this type of projects. The concept borrowed from the residence inn motel is ok for a single night stay but for a long term it does not deliver a lifestyle of a home.

Lawyers and sharks are the busiest during the recession. Architects that are not design oriented are good technical people. During the recession they are the groups usually out of work and they help the attorneys with forensic architectural work. The high number of units is an excellent candidate for class action lawsuit. Builders then will become fearful and hold off from building attached units and many years will go by. They will forget and get greedy again then they will build attach products. At the peak volume of attached product usually signals a recession in housing. I witnessed the same trends during the last 2 recessions.