I am starting a new thread for this because I don’t feel like wading through the garbage that is passing for political debate in the other threads.  Like 4Walls, I expected more from IHB members.  Perhaps we should stick to discussing the housing market and leave politics out of it.  At the rate things are developing, we’ll all be ignoring each other by election day.  Based on what I’ve read lately, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

But I am going to comment on Gov. Palin’s speech, because I suspect we’ll look back on it as one of the all-time great political debuts.  What genius for John McCain to select her!  I laugh at those who view her selection as nothing more than an identity politics play – there were better-known Republican women that McCain could have selected if that was his sole purpose.  Kay Bailey Hutchison or Condoleeza Rice, for example.  Even Murkowski.  No, McCain saw something in Gov. Palin that caused him to act decisively, and without waiting for the usual vetting process to occur.  Last night, we saw what he saw.  Gov. Palin is a political natural.  She is tough, smart, articulate, compassionate and funny.  She is likeable.  She is a mother and an executive.  She’s a reformer.  She is a proud American from a small town, living the American dream and dealing with American challenges.  And graph, you of all people should recognize that she’s got a little bit of snarkiness in her.  C’mon, you had to love the community organizer line and how she delivered it with a sneer!

So why has the left been in hysterics for the past week?  Why have they thrown everything including the kitchen sink at her?  Why have they, to borrow the phrase of another ground-breaking female politician, engaged in the politics of personal destruction?  Quite simply, because she is the shot in the arm that the Republicans need to be competitive again.  Because she’s taken an uninspired campaign and energized it by her presence.  Because McCain and Palin are coalescing as a reform ticket which is going to halt the self-made damage that the current administration and GOP Congress has done to the brand.  McCain/Palin is not four more years of Bush/Cheney—the two administrations are philosophically very different.  The challenge is going to be convincing a skeptical public of that fact, and Palin is going to be an asset on that front.  (Early drafts of McCain’s acceptance speech included healthy doses of criticism aimed at his own party, so expect more of that message.)  Amazingly, her glow is rubbing off on McCain, not vice versa.  And that is no small feat next to a man of McCain’s heroic stature.

Do I expect folks like Eva, no_vas, FairEconomist and cactus to agree with my assessment?  Of course not.  No offense, guys, but you aren’t the target demographic.  I really doubt there is any circumstance that would convince you to vote for McCain, even you no_vas, in spite of your protestations.  But that’s fine – 45% of the country falls into that category, just like 45% of the country would never consider voting for Obama.  But that 10% in the middle?  Palin is a game changer.  Be afraid, Democrats, be very afraid.

Certainly, Republicans are fighting an uphill battle this year, and to even have a chance of winning, McCain/Palin needs to run against an unpopular Bush/Cheney and their own party in Congress, without demoralizing the base.  That’s tough to do.  In addition, Palin is inexperienced on the national stage, so she may slip and stumble along the way.  There are many reasons why we may still end up with a President Obama.  But one year ago I looked at the crop of GOP Presidential candidates and worried about the future of my party.  Now, I look at Palin, along with Romney, Steele, Rice, Jindal and Cantor and feel assured that the future of my party is bright indeed!

My conclusion?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Maybe to some of you, the most personal family details of one party’s female Vice Presidential candidate is the sole factor in deciding for whom you will cast your vote.  Honestly, I have my suspicions that you are just playing dirty politics, but we can agree to disagree on that.  You should recognize, however, that many Americans are going to see themself or their spouse in Sarah Palin, are going to identify with her challenges and successes, and are going to rally around her in the face of the withering, biased and inappropriate attacks coming from the media and the left.  Sarah Palin is a great American story, and we as a nation would be lucky to put a self-made woman like her in the Vice-Presidency.

Well-said Skek.  This country is in for a tough time in the next few years no matter which party wins the presidency but I feel that Obama’s tax plan would only make things worse.

I have always admired Senator McCain for his courage and his independence.  I have never heard of Palin until recently but it now seems that she was a great choice.  I will take holding the line on taxes and characters over tax increases and promises for change every time.

skek - 04 September 2008 12:31 PM

In addition, Palin is inexperienced on the national stage, so she may slip and stumble along the way.

While the possibility of a slip is always possible, her debut to most of the nation last night was even more impressive when you realize that her teleprompter went out mid way through her speech.

Credit where credit is due - she gave a great speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

One that shows up a little light on facts.  She’s not qualifed to run for Mayor of Bakersfield.  She is in a state that has a consistant budget surplus because of excessive taxes on the oil and gas industry (Alaska citizens get a payment from the state every year because they can’t spend all the money they collect).  She has zero forign policy experence.  And has flip flopped (I was for the bridge before I was against it - didn’t stop her from keeping the money) more than John Kerry ever could of.

But don’t take my word for it.  Watch Karl Rove, Bill O’Riley, Dick Morris, and Pfotenhauer have to say about it.

Talk about having it both ways. 

BTW, I am offering 3:2 on the election for several of my friends.  By looking at intrade, I’m taking the worst of it by at least 10%.  I still can’t get anyone to book any action with me.  I’m offering it up the same action to IHB’rs.  Frendly wagers as small as a ham sandwich are invited.  If anybody’s interested, PM me.

I don’t agree with your assessment at all. She succeeded in re-igniting the culture war more than anything else. It’s now more about small town America vs. suburbia (which apparently doesn’t work nearly as hard nor has any people fighting in Iraq). It’s about the whole abortion thing again. It’s about religion. Rather than targeting the 10% in the middle, she is targeting the base and making sure they show up in full force. McCain couldn’t manage to get his base excited but with Palin they see a champion for their cause.

PS: as far as her improv skills ... hardly any.

Agreed Skek on your Palin comments and the dismay at the low-brow garbage others have posted about her here.  I think she expressed just the right amount of snarkiness given the personal attacks and innuendo heaped upon her and her family prior to her speech.

After she is finished serving the next four years as vice president, she may be the first female president.  Preliminarily, she seems well suited to both roles, in that order.

I just want to know WTF does any of this have to do with Banana Republic and why that would be a bad thing?

Anyway, yes skek, I noticed her snark and I thought her speech was pretty good. It will be interesting to watch the VP debates because Biden has years of snark behind him. I think it will boil down to who slips up less, as Biden may or may not have that foot in mouth disease cured yet.

Ya know, I just gave up on the politics thread after topics were at eighth grade level. So, I started posting eighth grade like responses. I asked for it to be cleaned up but all I got was a whiny PM.

So, thanks for bringing the politics forum back up to the level it should be. Don’t be surprised if goes downhill again.

Well, both my wide and I are democrats.  I won’t vote for her period.  We’re anti gun and pro choice.  These issues are important to us. BUT my wife is considering voting for McCain/Palin after hearing about Palin’s background and tuning into McCain’s speech tonight.  WTF.

I guess my vote will cancel her’s out.

She did way better than I expected last night.  I was impressed with her.  She’s a terrific role model for some of us and, as a woman, I’m inspired by her so far.

On that note, I’d encourage anyone who’s joining just now in to go back and read this thread from several months past:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2450/

In particular, read post 5, 11, 12, 49.  I haven’t changed my position one bit in 20 years.  I’m still the same observant Catholic kid from a little farming town who knows what tough work looks like, and knows a thing or two about the situation that brought rise to the whole Palin pregnancy.  Alaska and rural California aren’t that different.  And ask anyone who knows me personally, I’ve got a bunch of empathy for people in tough situations.  And I’m the only one here who’s lived in a small farming town of about 10,000 for the majority of his/her life.  I know Sarah Palin.  Not literally, of course.  But small towns across America is full of Sarah Palins.

Is Sarah Palin a game changer?  Dunno.  She certainly has changed the topic.  I went from asking “Why shouldn’t I vote for McCain?  He’s qualifed.“ to asking myself “My God, has the man gone crazy?  His VP candiate isn’t qualifed to run the Orange County ASPCA!“ 

On a side note, I was looking at some old topics on the forum.  This one:

Tim Russert passes away.

stood out like a sore thumb, and has caused me to ponder what this election season might look like with one more honest broker.  Unfortunetly, my worst fears have been realized.  It’s a coarser, more retoric driven, meaner election. 

One, that if it gets back to discussing issues, will quickly establish that Sarah Palin is not qualifed to sit on a Presidential ticket, much less be elected.

bugmenot - 04 September 2008 10:14 PM

Well, both my wide and I are democrats.  I won’t vote for her period.  We’re anti gun and pro choice.  These issues are important to us. BUT my wife is considering voting for McCain/Palin after hearing about Palin’s background and tuning into McCain’s speech tonight.  WTF.

I guess my vote will cancel her’s out.

Your wife is a very smart woman!!!  I know of some anti gun and pro choice people…they told me the same thing that they won’t vote GOP just bc of that regardless other factors.  Do you think these two factors are more important then economy policy and foreign policy which IMO can impact our day to day life in a more direct way?  Just curious about your thoughts. Personally I believe women should have the right to choose, don’t believe guns should be freely purchased and carried. I always vote GOP due to economic and foreign policy difference.

The GOP and Bush have managed to piss off nearly 80% of the American public as evidenced in dis/satisfaction polls.  It’s been a gross 8 years for the vast majority of us, for important issues that the GOP party has made decisions about.  You’d have to have severe amnesia to think that the GOP/McCain can be trusted to do things differently.

Anyone who thinks that “voting for a woman”  or “voting for an african-american” is somehow principled, needs to rethink their vulnerability when it comes to gimmicks.

Obama wrote two books himself.  He’s a thinker.  He doesn’t seem to make suprise/kneejerk decisions on the important issues.  The Audacity of Hope clearly defines his vision for the direction this country should take.  That path is clearly not anything like we have had the last 8 years. I frankly think that this country is off track and needs a major adjustment.  I suggest reading a copy for a thorough view of Obama’s stance on the issues.

I want to thank everyone for keeping this thread civil (at least for the moment)—particularly those of you who disagree passionately with McCain/Palin and their politics.  I trust that those of us who disagree equally as strongly with Obama/Biden will return the favor.

No_vas, you don’t need the over-the-top rhetoric to make the point that you think she’s inexperienced.  Either that, or you have an odd view of the importance of the Orange County ASPCA.

NoWowway - 05 September 2008 06:09 AM

The GOP and Bush have managed to piss off nearly 80% of the American public as evidenced in dis/satisfaction polls.  It’s been a gross 8 years for the vast majority of us, for important issues that the GOP party has made decisions about.  You’d have to have severe amnesia to think that the GOP/McCain can be trusted to do things differently.

From RealClearPolitics, which averages national polling data:

Bush approval rating: 30.4
Obama favorable rating: 56.4
McCain favorable rating: 54.4
Congressional approval rating: 17.8

The GOP isn’t in control of Congress, the Democrats are. They look to gain even more seats in both the House and Senate come November. Whether their low approval rating is because people think there are too many Republicans left in Congress remains to be seen, but it’s a certainty that if McCain wins the election he’ll be on his own with very little support in either house. That guarantees that he will have “to do things differently”.

skek - 05 September 2008 08:48 AM

No_vas, you don’t need the over-the-top rhetoric to make the point that you think she’s inexperienced.  Either that, or you have an odd view of the importance of the Orange County ASPCA.

I used that on purpose.  I submit it is much harder to run the OCSPCA than the State of Alaska becuase of the revenue situation.  Alaska is awash in tax revenues.  On the other hand, the OCASPCA has to struggle with budget constraints every fiscal year, yet still deliver mission.  Same for the fine state of Californian (ask Arnold how that’s going).  She is walking into an administration that will face the largest structural deficets EVER, and has zero skills on how to address them other than cutting taxes.

She is not qualified to sit on the ticket, and you are electing to hold your nose and ignore it because it’s your side who screwed up.  That’s having it both ways.

I find it interesting you didn’t complain about my over the top rhetoric when I posted Obama wasn’t qualifed to run a Dairy Queen some months back.  Now that I’m taking issue with my perfered candidates choice of VP, I’m over the top.  Got it.

I’m trying real hard here to channel Tim Russert.  Problem is, I’m a student of Karl Rove (and to a lesser extent, Lee Atwater).  This current pickle we find ourselves in is, IMO, the fault of the Dems.  Over the past 25 years, Atwater and Rover changed the game, and the Dems either couldn’t or wouldn’t play. 

You want to discuss issues?  Lets go.  Want to engage in the Culture Wars?  I’ll dance.  Wanna race to the bottom?  Pack your lunch kid.

The kiddie game is offically (points) down the street.

Nude - 05 September 2008 09:22 AM

The GOP isn’t in control of Congress, the Democrats are. They look to gain even more seats in both the House and Senate come November. Whether their low approval rating is because people think there are too many Republicans left in Congress remains to be seen, but it’s a certainty that if McCain wins the election he’ll be on his own with very little support in either house. That guarantees that he will have “to do things differently”.

I don’t think that’s true.  I think that privately the legeslature is looking forward to being done with W, who is nothing but obstructionist.  You can reason (aka make laws) with McCain.  I think he’s a reasonable man.

I’m trying real hard here to channel Tim Russert.

I’m going to call BS on that one, vas.  You called a Vice-Presidential candidate a floozy.  You aren’t trying to channel an honest broker like Russert, you are imitating bomb-throwers like Olberman or Coulter.  Maybe you throw your bombs at both parties, but it is still over the top and, in my opinion, unhelpful.  I think you are a smart guy, no_vas, and I know you are better than that.

She is not qualified to sit on the ticket, and you are electing to hold your nose and ignore it because it’s your side who screwed up.  That’s having it both ways.

My view on experience is that no President makes decisions in a vacuum.  They put experts in policy positions to advise them or to make decisions on their behalf.  If you could pick the President, and I could pick the cabinet—I’d take that deal in a heartbeat.  For that reason, I’m much more interested in who makes up the candidates’ policy team.  I’m interested in who the surrogates are.  I’m interested in the vision, the philosophy and the principles that underpin a candidate’s decision-making process.  What school of political theory do they subscribe to?  How do they define America’s role in the world?  Experience does not necessarily equate to competence.  Experience can be a useful predictive tool, but it isn’t the end-all/be-all.  I vote on policy.  I’m a conservative, primarily a small government, fiscal conservative who wants strong national security and a foreign policy that advances American interests in the world.  I would vote for an inexperienced candidate who shares those values over an experienced one who doesn’t.  And I wouldn’t need to hold my nose to cast that vote.  Does that meet your test for consistency?

I find it interesting you didn’t complain about my over the top rhetoric when I posted Obama wasn’t qualifed to run a Dairy Queen some months back.  Now that I’m taking issue with my perfered candidates choice of VP, I’m over the top.  Got it.

No, I didn’t call you out on your Obama rhetoric.  If memory serves, I didn’t pay a lot of attention to it at the time and the atmosphere wasn’t as toxic then as it is now.  But if you want my opinion, in spite of his inexperience, I think Senator Obama is qualified to run a Dairy Queen, serve as Mayor of Bakersfield or run for President of the United States.  I just think he’d do poorly in at least two of those jobs…

So, we’ve established that your rhetoric then was just as over the top and inappropriate as it is now.  But that’s your schtick, isn’t it?  Saying inflammatory things to draw fire and keep yourself in the mix.  Have at it if you are enjoying yourself, but at some point the serious people may just tune you out.  I’d hate for you to look around and realize that you are the kiddie game.

no_vaseline - 05 September 2008 09:52 AM

I find it interesting you didn’t complain about my over the top rhetoric when I posted Obama wasn’t qualifed to run a Dairy Queen some months back.  Now that I’m taking issue with my perfered candidates choice of VP, I’m over the top.  Got it.

no_vaseline - 22 March 2008 02:10 PM

I am a life long dem who is crossing the line and voting for McCain in the fall because of one reason and one reason only - Obama can make a hell of a speech, but he’s not qualified to run a Dariy Queen.  Hilly and McCain are both qualified to hold the office.  One of those isn’t going to be on the ballot, and Obama is off the grid in my world, so to speak.

no_vaseline - 01 September 2008 09:10 AM

I knew she was a floozy.  Well, at least her daughter is.  Like mother, like daughter right?

Does this go to judgement or temperment or qualification?  No, this goes to show what happens when to nominante a 18month Governer who’s previous qualifications were Mayor of a town of 6000 and being first runner up in the Miss Alaska pagent.  You get all that small town chaff that comes along with it.  There ain’t much to do in a town of 6000 except drink, meth, or have sex. 

This is why you shouldn’t have two working parents when you still have school age children.  For those of you who had meddlesome, stay at home parent at home when you were growing up you’ll understand.  And for those of you who grew up in a small isolated town where sex, drugs, and rock and roll were the only afterschool activities you’ll really get it.

Yes, that’s over the top. You attacked Obama on his experience, you attacked Palin on her parenting skills. You called her names, but not Obama. You insinuated she was trailer trash, while he was merely unqualified. Over the top… and sexist, too.

Results from Rasmussen’s first poll following Palin’s speech:

A week ago, most Americans had never heard of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Now, following a Vice Presidential acceptance speech viewed live by more than 40 million people, Palin is viewed favorably by 58% of American voters. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 37% hold an unfavorable view of the self-described hockey mom.

Perhaps most stunning is the fact that Palin’s favorable ratings are now a point higher than either man at the top of the Presidential tickets this year. As of Friday morning, Obama and McCain are each viewed favorably by 57% of voters. Biden is viewed favorably by 48%.

Fifty-one percent (51%) of Americans believe that most reporters are trying to hurt Palin’s campaign, a fact that may enhance her own ratings.

The Palin pick has also improved perceptions of John McCain. A week ago, just before he introduced his running mate, just 42% of Republicans had a Very Favorable opinion of their party’s nominee. That figure jumped to 54% by this Friday morning. Among unaffiliated voters, favorable opinions of McCain have increased by eleven percentage points in a week—from 54% before the Palin announcement to 65% today.

Forty percent (40%) now say that Palin is ready to be President, if necessary. That’s up from 29% last week. Forty-nine percent (49%) say the same about Biden.

Press release here.

“40% now say that Palin is ready to be President, if necessary.“

That’s just plain scary. A week ago she didn’t even know what it entails to be a VP. I really wonder what the perception among independents is.

skek - 05 September 2008 01:44 PM

I’m trying real hard here to channel Tim Russert.

I’m going to call BS on that one, vas.  You called a Vice-Presidential candidate a floozy.

Thanks for taking my quote out of context and leaving out the second part.  Last time I checked, I’m not running Meet the Press, and Rove isn’t being considered to host it.  I miss Tim dearly.

You aren’t trying to channel an honest broker like Russert, you are imitating bomb-throwers like Olberman or Coulter.  Maybe you throw your bombs at both parties, but it is still over the top and, in my opinion, unhelpful.  I think you are a smart guy, no_vas, and I know you are better than that.

Welcome to Poisioned Well Politics, courtesy of Karl Rove and Lee Atwater.  What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Nude - 05 September 2008 02:30 PM

Yes, that’s over the top. You attacked Obama on his experience, you attacked Palin on her parenting skills. You called her names, but not Obama. You insinuated she was trailer trash, while he was merely unqualified. Over the top… and sexist, too.

How about Biden’s parenting skills when his wife unexpectedly died?

I don’t have an issue with Obama’s parenting skills.  I do with Palin.  If Obama or Biden had a four month old with Down’s syndorome and an underage pregnant daughter I would most certainly take issue with thier parenting skills.  Because she’s a woman I can’t say she’s doing a a lousy job, is a failed parent, and is/has set a horrible example?  I’d say the same thing if she were a man, and I think you know it.  But because the Dems ran two sqeeky clean candidates I don’t get the oppourtunity.

This discussion about her parenting skills is a distraction and a trap.  It has nothing to do with her qualifications to serve as VP, but does go to temperment and personality.  And it did serve well to refire the Culture Wars.  Unexpectedly, I never figured I’d be the most conservative person in the room on the subject.

I didn’t think it was much of a speech, but she delivered it well. I guess that is all that matters to some people.

She is not a failed parent. Her kid probably mimicked her and she turned out alright in my book. I’m amazed she can do all the the things she does and still look pretty darn good. Babies, gun, Jesus. Hot damn!