Development: Villages of Columbus

Village: Columbus Square

Tract: Verandas (97 single family detached homes) in the City of Tustin

Builder: William Lyon Homes

Schools: Tustin School District (TUSD): Marjorie Veeh Elementary, A.G. Currie Middle, Tustin High

Tax Rate: The anticipated total effective tax rate is approximately 1.8%

HOA Dues: Estimated build-out Master HOA Dues are expected to be $110.15/month

Plans:

Residence 1 - 3bd/2.5ba - 1887 sq. ft.

Residence 2 - 3bd+Loft/2.5ba  - 2211 sq. ft.

Residence 3 - 4bd+Den/2.5ba - 2394 sq. ft.

<u>PRICING</u>

Phase 1 (January 27, 2007)

Residence 1 - From $674,990

Residence 2 - From $714,990

Residence 3 - From $759,990

Lot 8 - Plan 1AXR - $674,990

Lot 9 - Plan 1BXR - $679,990

Lot 10 - Plan 3EX - $764,990

Lot 11- Plan 2C - $714,990

Lot 12 - Plan 1A - $674,990

Lot 13 - Plan 3C - $759,990

Lot 14 - Plan 2B - $714,990

Lot 15 - Plan 1C - $674,990

Lot 16 - Plan 3D - $759,990

Lot 17 - Plan 2A - $714,990

Lot 18 - Plan 1BXR - $679,990

Lot 19 - Plan 1AX - $682,490

Lot 20 - Plan 2C - $717,490

Lot 21 - Plan 1BXR - $687,490

Phase 2 (March 17, 2007)

Plan 1 - $677,990

Plan 2 - $719,990

Plan 3 - $759,990

Prices as of April 29, 2007<u>

Phase 2 (old)</u>

Lot 22 - Plan 2BX  - $734,990

Lot 23 - Plan 3CXR  - $769,990

Lot 24 - Plan 1AX - $682,990

Lot 25 - Plan 2B  - $719,990

Lot 26 - Plan 3E  - $759,990

Lot 27 - Plan 1C  - $677,990

Lot 28 - Plan 2A  - $719,990

Lot 29 - Plan 3D - $759,990

Lot 30 - Plan 2C  - $719,990

Lot 31 - Plan 1BXR- $682,990

Lot 32 - Plan 2AXR- $734,990

Lot 33 - Plan 3EX - $769,990

Lot 34 - Plan 3CX - $774,990

Lot 35 - Plan 1BXR- $687,990
<u>Phase 3 (new)</u>

Lot 36 - Plan 1AX - $684,990

Lot 37 - Plan 2C - $726,990

Lot 38 - Plan 3D- $759,990

Lot 39 - Plan 1C- $681,990

Lot 40 - Plan 2B - $726,990

Lot 41 - Plan 3C - $761,990

Lot 42 - Plan 2A - $724,990

Lot 43 - Plan 1BXR - $686,990

Lot 44 - Plan 3DXR - $784,990

Lot 45 - Plan 1AX - $689,990

Lot 46 - Plan 2CX - $751,990

Lot 47 - Plan 3EXR - $769,990
06/30/2007

Two phase 1 plan 3 units fell out of escrow and have $25k incentives.

Lot 13, plan 3C:  $755- 25 = $730k

Lot 16, plan 3D:  $760- 25 = $735k

08/02/2007

Lot 13, Plan 3 for $699,990

Price sheet effective 9/6/07

Phase 1

Lot 8 - Plan 1AXR - $711,990

Lot 10 - Plan 3EX - $733,990

Lot 13 - Plan 3C - $721,990

Lot 16 - Plan 3D - $730,990

Lot 17 - Plan 2A - $696,990

Phase 2

Lot 23 - Plan 3CXR - $724,990

Lot 24 - Plan 1AX - $659,990

Lot 26 - Plan 3E - $713,990

Lot 29 - Plan 3D - $713,990

Lot 32 - Plan 2AXR - $713,990

Lot 33 - Plan 3EX - $726,990

12/31/07

Residence 1 - From $655,990

Residence 2 - From $690,990

Residence 3 - From $714,990
"$50k of incentive money was available on top of the listed price" 

2/1/08

Residence 1 - From $639,990

Residence 2 - From $671,990

Residence 3 - From $697,990

I stopped by yesterday with the missus, and it was busy.
We only went through R1 because of the price point.  Like Zack said, it wasn’t bad but didn’t dazzle either.  The downstairs was reasonably laid out.  It was nice not having the fireplace and media center on the same wall for a change.  Not sure if I’m sold on the value of the sideyard, though.
Upstairs was pretty typical for the price range.  Larger than most master bedroom, although I would have gladly traded some of the square footage in there to the 2nd and 3rd bedrooms.  No den or good pay-your-bills desk/storage space anywhere in the house.
I think the price point ($675k) is generally in line with today’s market, but destined to slip in the coming months.  Last summer it probably would have been a $734,990 starting price.  It should keep some competitve pressure on the larger attached product in the same range (ie; Meriwether R3, Kensington R1, Clarendon R3).
It wasn’t 100% clear to me if the units were being offered for sale at the grand opening, or whether they were offering a preview of the first phase release.  (Admittedly I didn’t take the time to corner a salesperson and ask).
SCHB

Just went today.  They did seem a bit small in the kitchen and dining area, but we thought Plan 3 was pretty good.  Bummer that they only offer three choices - one more would have been nice.  It’s also a bummer that they don’t offer a downstairs bed and bath.  Not doing so is a deal breaker for us.  Although somewhat close together, they are not classified as detached condos, so you only pay the master HOA fortunately. 

I answered my own question.  The Ph1 release is 3Feb2007, one week after the grand opening.
I won’t be available to observe.  We’d love a report on how that goes if anyone is free.
SCHB

Went to the phase release today.  14 home phase release, 2 were bought before release from corporate, and 5 were sold from the waiting list.  Everyone’s else’s comments were: "Deter me to phase 3!"
Plan 1 - $677,990
Plan 2 - $719,990
Plan 3 - $759,990
All plans available right now unless something changed from this morning.

These homes were very nice.

They are nice and almost got us (me and my wife) to buy the plan 2s.  Seriously, we would have bought one if we weren’t afraid that the market was going to go down further from here.  When we were there, about 1/3 - 1/2 of everyone on the waiting list showed (~15-20 groups) and from the looks of things, most groups were thinking of the same thing as me which is "Yes we would like to buy a home to live in but we want to wait for the price to come down first.".

My wife and I having been looking for homes for the past 12months and came across the Verandas last weekend. We decided to buy the the Res2 for $719K yesterday and signed all the paper works but we still have three days to reconsider the offer and decline. Nobody can predict the future but we believe that a residence like this can not go much lower $15K max. Realistically, ‘DNING’ how much would pay for R2 in the Verandas? Will it go lower than phase1?

bababui,

congratulations on  your new purchase.

If you read  the contract carefully, i believe you have more than 3 days to cancel the contract.  There is a cause somewhere states that you need to get you loan approved by a certain date.  Until then, you can back out and get  your deposit back.  However, what you want to do is too drag the application process with the builder lender.  if you already submitted application with the builder lender, and the moment they approve your loan, you can no longer back out and get your deposit back.   Make sure you read the entire contract soon.  I know for sure several builders have this in their contract, but I haven’t seen a Lyon Contract in this community.

Just a word a caution: there is nothing prevent from the future phases to be much lower. Market will drive the price, and the builder will do what it takes to sell.  But if you think you are going to be there for a min of 5 years, then as long as you are happy with the house, and prefer ownership vs. rental, then there is nothing to worry about.

bababui -
Great screen name.
If you couldn’t wait any longer and needed to buy, then stop kicking yourself.  Life happens.  If you didn’t really need to buy, then that may result in some different perspectives down the road.  For example, see the latest (today’s) headline from Money.cnn.com that I pasted below.  Headlines such as these suggest much more than a 15k reduction on a 700k home (I mean really, you think that a 2% - 15k - reduction is even worth it for a builder?)... try more along the lines of 10-15% at a time(10% reduction… see how inventory and sales traffic goes… and then adjust about quarterly).
A good place to look is at the financials guidance and disclosures of the public builders that have to answer to shareholders (Money has links to them all of the time.. and some of those links appear in the artlcle that I pasted) - I also see these"revised" quarterly statements and predictions all of the time on MSNBC, etc.  They are being revised DOWN.  Down in terms of sales, profits, & building activity… But, who really knows where we are headed?
Also take note of the posts on this forum about Lantana.  People are actually protesting against William Lyon Homes because subsequent phases dropped 10-15%  Are those people on crack?  Sure they are mad - and stupid.  (And soon, I hope, broke)  I’d suspect that if they really needed the home in the first place, they might not be so upset with the reductions and they would be busy living their life… instead to being the jerks that have speculated the housing market in the stratosphere…. making it incredibly difficult for a young & growing family to afford a decent home (this is where my circumstances are made clear).
Again, if you needed to finally buy, I’d strongly recommend against searching the web on an endless quest to justify the purchase… only you know your particular situation.  For whatever its worth… Win, lose, or draw, I may have to buy in the next 5-6 months as well.
New home sales: Slowest in 6 years
Pace of new homes sales slumps 4 percent to lowest since August 2000 as glut of homes on the market rises, hurting prices.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/26/news/economy/new_home_sales/index.htm?postversion=2007032610
 
 

If you are buying now then I highly recommend staying the hell away from housing blogs… and newspapers

The fact that people who read blogs like this one are still buying makes me scratch my head.

Irvine native, well it just depends on just how low I can get the property for.  Some places I’m offering 30-40% of asking value.  Other places I’m offering up to 60% (depending on just how nice of a property it is) of asking price.  In the upper ranges, its more of a "how fast can I pay down the mortgage to acceptable levels".  In the next year or two It will NOT be an income producer, but more of a tax shelter and or money sink.  After that (with a big enough cushion/low enough rent) then it will be a income producer.  Definitely a long term investment.  For me since my 1031 is pretty big (after all those heyday years), I need to spend and spread it out over a few homes (versus one GIANT home - proverbial eggs and basket) or a multiunit complex.    It just depends on what makes sense in the deal.
good luck
-bix

bababui - I’m not sure what the price will be in subsequent homes, but I just see that everyone was hesitate to buy a home at the phase release and all of the sales numbers indicate that the price will either go down (which is likely) or stay relatively steady.  It just seemed to me that waiting makes sense as long as I do not see the price jumping 10-15% per year.
After doing some calculations, the $700 price range seem to be something i can afford and honestly I do not see me needing anything over 2000 sq ft anytime soon (not another 5-10 years at least) so it’s not like I want to use the money to buy an even bigger house but I don’t want to buy a house and see it go down 10-20% in a year from now (which again, I do not know if it will happen or not).

By the way, do you know how many homes are still available from phase 2?

dning- there were around 8 homes left in phase2 and 1 left from phase1. There were 4- Res3, 3- Res1 and 1- Res2 left.
On another note, after trying to negotiate any builder incentives, the sales guy told me that the price is fixed and he nor management has any ability to give any upgrade incentives. The only incentive was $10K upgrades if you use their financing. We plan not to because we know people in the business that could save us the $20K.
Is this sales guy BS-ing us big time or what? Has anyone dealt with William Lyon in  the past?

Well , we bought a home from the Clarendon neighborhood by Lyon Homes and they pretty much told us the same thing as they told you dning.

irvine_native,

I think that investment buyers/flippers who buy homes with 100% IO financing and read this blog are foolish, but depending on your situation, home buying may still make sense versus renting.

If someone buys a home with the intention of staying for 10+years and sees real estate as somewhere to live, not something to make money off of, it’s probably not a bad time to buy.

Speaking of which, I’m a big fan of Scott Adams’ 9 point plan for personal finance:

<ol xmlns:quoteslink=“http://www.marketwatch.com/quotelink”>
  Make a will
  Pay off your credit cards
  Get term life insurance if you have a family to support
  Fund your 401k to the maximum
  Fund your IRA to the maximum
  Buy a house if you want to live in a house and can afford it
  Put six months worth of expenses in a money-market account
  Take whatever money is left over and invest 70% in a stock index fund and 30% in a bond fund through any discount broker and never touch it until retirement
  If any of this confuses you, or you have something special going on (retirement, college planning, tax issues), hire a fee-based financial planner, not one who charges a percentage of your portfolio
</ol>
There are a lot of good reasons to buy a home now, so long as you want to live in it and can afford it.

Just my $0.02…

-OCR

I looked at veranda’s too.  I actually was one of the people that went in to defer.  I’m kind of on the fence with any Columbus Square property because of the train, but also because of the homeless shelter being built near by.  I found a map after looking at the Tusin Legacy site.
http://www.tustinlegacy.com/article.cfm?id=45
it seems like the homeless village will be really close (villages of hope).  Does this concern anyone?  Do you think the property value of these homes will hold up even though it is sandwiched between a train and a homeless shelter?  I really love the verandas (but its the price that i think i really love) but i’m so torn. 

It sounds like the plan 2s are the only ones selling while the others are not.  The plan 3s are not selling at all and I’m not sure how that is going to affect the prices of other plans.  I’m sure if prices on the plan 3s drop significantly enough, it will affect the price of the plan 2s also.
The homeless village and train is probably on everyone else’s mind also (including the builder) so the initial price is already built into this and that’s probably part of the reason why we think the price is so attractive.  It doesn’t help that the phases released now backs right onto Edinger either.
The additional incentives (or lack of) seems to be what everyone is saying for the Irvine area so I wouldn’t be too concern with the fact that he is BSing us.  I sort of agree with everyone’s take (if you can afford it and plan to stick with the house for a while, then go for it).  Good luck!

Price Update if anyone cares.:
Phase 2 (old)
Lot 22 - Plan 2BX  - $734,990
Lot 23 - Plan 3CXR  - $769,990
Lot 24 - Plan 1AX - $682,990
Lot 25 - Plan 2B  - $719,990
Lot 26 - Plan 3E  - $759,990
Lot 27 - Plan 1C  - $677,990
Lot 28 - Plan 2A  - $719,990
Lot 29 - Plan 3D - $759,990
Lot 30 - Plan 2C  - $719,990
Lot 31 - Plan 1BXR- $682,990
Lot 32 - Plan 2AXR- $734,990
Lot 33 - Plan 3EX - $769,990
Lot 34 - Plan 3CX - $774,990
Lot 35 - Plan 1BXR- $687,990
 
Phase 3 (new)
Lot 36 - Plan 1AX - $684,990
Lot 37 - Plan 2C - $726,990
Lot 38 - Plan 3D- $759,990
Lot 39 - Plan 1C- $681,990
Lot 40 - Plan 2B - $726,990
Lot 41 - Plan 3C - $761,990
Lot 42 - Plan 2A - $724,990
Lot 43 - Plan 1BXR - $686,990
Lot 44 - Plan 3DXR - $784,990
Lot 45 - Plan 1AX - $689,990
Lot 46 - Plan 2CX - $751,990
Lot 47 - Plan 3EXR - $769,990

Looks like they are still trying to raise the price.  Are these plans selling?

Got the Friday afternoon "Featured Homes" email from Lyon, and they are highlighting lot 13 plan 3C for $730k.  Move-in is in September.
Anyone hear any more about the story behind this?
SCHB

I answered my own question with a visit to the sales office.
Two phase 1 plan 3 units fell out of escrow and have $25k incentives.
Lot 13, plan 3C:  $755- 25 = $730k
Lot 16, plan 3D:  $760- 25 = $735k
Both units back to the industrial park at Red Hill and Edinger.  Current phases (2&3) back to Edinger.  Later phases will be more centrally located in Columbus Square.
SCHB

Does anyone have any price sheet updates for Verandas?  I read in another thread that the plan 3’s were now at $699. 

hi i did not get a price sheet today. but there’s a big sign when you walk in the sales office, and their home of the week is lot 13, Plan 3 for $699,990 @ 2390 sq. ft, 4 Beds, 2 1/2 Bath Single Family Home, this is their biggest plan out of the three plans. I did not ask what the other 2 was because i was only looking for a 4 bed home

The downstairs of that plan 3 is just weird.  Undersized family room & dining room, and a useless parlor.  The whole downstairs needs to be reconfigured.  Upstairs is OK.
I think lot 13 faces the motorhome storage lot in the adjacent "light industrial" area.  $292 sq/ft new construction seems like a recent low-water mark, but it still doesn’t seem worth it.
SCHB