Peter Schiff: OC housing market will get much worse

Oct 25th, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-10-25 04:55 AM

Looks like Schiff agrees with my prediction that OC house prices will average $200,000 in the next few years.

I’m looking forward to seeing realtor signs with electronic price displays that slowly spin lower, perhaps $1,000/day.

That would be the opposite of the US Debt Clock, always going higher. smile

Astute Observation by SanJoseDavid
2011-10-25 06:57 AM

I could only see it happening if interest rates were to shoot the moon and that seems very unlikely at this point.  Each time it looks as though mortgage rates could not fall a 10th of a percentage lower - they come up with a new way to drive interest rates downward.  Banks are now advertising “high yield” money market savings accounts with .85% interest rates that were paying out 5% when the economy imploded.

And not to mention that people in the upper income brackets are rebounding a lot faster than those in the lower income ranges and many will likely be willing to “overpay” for a nice neighborhood.

The problem with Schiff is that he is always predicting the end of the world any day now and telling people to buy gold and lots of it, preferably from Euro Pacific Capital if they have 250K to gamble with.  The stock market has a bad day and he is on the radio telling everyone to ready their Ham radios and head to their shelters with all their gold.  The stock market rebounds the following day and he is back on the radio proclaiming that the can has been kicked down the road for another day so everyone should remain close to their shelters and be ready to transact gold coins for their caramel lattes at starbucks in the coming weeks.  In my eyes, he has lost some credibility riding the “buy gold prepare for hyperinflation” talk.

Astute Observation by Mark
2011-10-25 10:09 AM

What Schiff has been predicting for a long time is not just increased interest rates and worse unemployment, but something on the order of a global panic/crash/deep financial crisis with severe and abrupt changes is interest rates, food prices, oil prices, etc. to the extent that nobody will recognize the country for what it was anymore - it will be that bad. 

I think the media and politicians are reporting/selling a slow, long-lasting recession followed by a slow, measured recovery.

Schiff, the proverbial “Debbie Downer”, says no freaking way. It’ll be like an unexpected economic heart attack/stroke, and it could happen any day now.

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2011-10-25 09:52 PM

SanJoseRenter,
Is that DaveAZ moved to San Jose?  Does this mean that you graduated?  Doing a post-doc or working in industry?  Anyways the beat goes on with the extend and pretend. 

Did they really have those massive dust storms in Phoenix, AZ as portrayed on the web?

Fed trying an old FDR trick—inflate your way out of debt.  Just need wage inflation to work.  That won’t happen until the rest of the world need something from the US that can’t be purchased elsewhere. 

The US needs to stop being the world’s free policeman and start SELLING the arms for the rest of the world to police themselves.

Astute Observation by SanJoseDavid
2011-10-25 07:04 AM

loads of cabinets

Dewd - I’m like a tewtilly professional realtor, man.  You should see this killer house with sh_t-loads of cabinets in it.  Far out.

Astute Observation by SanJoseDavid
2011-10-25 07:24 AM

room for pool

Astute Observation by SanJoseDavid
2011-10-25 07:33 AM

At least when hyperinflation rolls through O.C, the owners of this house will be ready to grow their own vegetables in those herb gardens and fill sandbags from the dirtpile to fortify their perimeter and fire their guns at the passing marauders.  If they decide to not put a pool in that room then it will make a good place to store more guns and extra food.  Looks like lots of space to bury large caches of gold coins too.

Astute Observation by ripcord
2011-10-25 08:00 AM

That shed could be great for the servers their going to need to store all their bitcoins, too.

Maybe they could buy ammunition made of gold.  Kill two birds with one stone and all that.

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-10-25 07:59 AM

Paul Volcker was interviewed on Charlie Rose last nite. Some quotes:

- Glass/Steagal is 2 lines. The Volcker Rule is 35 pages. These are not complicated to understand. Pick one or the other and enforce it.
- 1 trillion euros ... wow, that’s the first time I ever had to say that.
- in 2008, the shadow or non-banks such as mutual funds actually had their money in European banks. Can you imagine what would have happened if the Greek crisis was exposed in 2008 and there was a run on our mutual funds? That’s why I think mutual fund deposits should be in regulated banks.
- Japan’s real estate and stock market values fell 70% during their crisis. You can’t just press a button and fix that type of economic problem.
- executives say that capital requirements and restrictions on proprietary trading will hurt growth. I say that type of financial engineering is secondary to real economic growth.
- adding a tax on stock market trades will only be possible if other countries do that as well, which won’t happen
- we’re deleveraging the mortgage market through foreclosure, which is a very painful process
- why was there $60 trillion in swaps protecting against $6 trillion in risk? what does that even mean?
- we have deleveraged maybe 25% of swaps. It’s a start, but still high compared to 15 years ago.
- the middle class has not improved economically in 10 or 20 years. OWS should have happened sooner.

Astute Observation by octal77
2011-10-25 08:24 AM

I really like Paul Volcker

To his comments about what Wall Street says to him:

...[Wall Street] executives say that capital requirements and restrictions on proprietary trading will hurt growth…

1) We don’t have growth now, so how can such restrictions hurt?

2) We had great growth in the 50’s and 60’s before high speed computers and networks made proprietary trading possible.

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-10-25 05:19 PM

Everywhere I look now, I see High Frequency Trading goods and services:

- HFT servers
- HFT data centers
- HFT fiber connections

All optimized to reduce lag, similar to the online game server sector that mushroomed 2000-2010.

Astute Observation by Pwned
2011-10-25 09:52 AM

All this talk of dismantling Freddie, Fannie, etc and abolishing the income tax is nothing but talk because the financial industry writes the laws that govern these institutions thru their lobbyists. I’d love to see a 5-page tax code and no government involvement in real estate but we’d have to completely remove special interests from the equation first. Good luck with that! In the meantime I’ll be holed up in my OC bunker with my guns, canned food, bottled water and stacks of gold coins waiting to protect my family from bands of hyperinflation marauders terrorizing the neighborhood in their luxury SUVs. smile

Astute Observation by Mark
2011-10-25 09:53 AM

I look forward to seeing Schiff in November.
If you haven’t seen his testimony to Congress from September 2011 on youtube, then you really should. The best (and simultaneously worst) part are the incredulous looks and clearly worried follow up questions that expose just how poorly informed and educated today’s American congressmen and women are on these critical issues of national debt, government intervention and taxes.  They obviously have no clue what they are doing wrong and are getting tons of horrible advice.

Schiff was right about the housing crash and the 2009 financial crisis. Now he’s more bearish and foreboding than ever, mainly because all of the policies enacted by Congress and the Executive branch since 2000 have been a series of tragic, colossal and likely irreversible mistakes.

Schiff slams Obama’s administration for not addressing the issues early on. Instead, more borrowing and govt intervention has made matters worse. The interesting thing though is that Schiff’s criticism really goes back to the Clinton Adminstration. Also, Schiff doles out punches for Bush & Co. in equal measure.

I like him because he’s a fiscal conservative and old school Repubplican minus the holy roller, intelligent design charade.

Astute Observation by Duran
2011-10-25 10:13 AM

It gets funnier by the Day…

From the WSJ:

“The main subsidiary of mortgage insurer PMI Group Inc. has been seized by insurance regulators in Arizona, and will begin paying just 50% of claims beginning Monday, according to its website.

The remainder of each claim will be deferred, the company said.

PMI becomes the second mortgage insurer since the housing-bubble burst to be subject to restrictions on payments, as fallout from the bursting of the housing bubble takes another turn for the worse. The insurer joins smaller rival Triad Guaranty Inc., where policyholders since 2009 have gotten 60% of their claims paid in cash with the balance deferred.

According to an order from an Arizona Superior Court judge posted on the company’s website, the Arizona Department of Insurance now has “full and exclusive power of management and control of PMI.”

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2011-10-25 10:21 AM

The elderly, stripped of interest income as a result of rock bottom interest rates ...

Not much pisses me off these days, but this particular consequence of kissing banker and homedebtor ass year after year is infuriating.

If you want low interest rates for a couple of years, then be a good lil’ monetarist and do the deed: slash ‘em for a while. Treasury holders aren’t entitled to great returns all the time.

But this seemingly endless period of low rates is punishing people who did not play the Big Casino with all their money. Everyone must live with risk, but no one should have been shafted the way savers have been since the late 1990s.

Astute Observation by wheresthebeef
2011-10-25 12:12 PM

I remember the days when you could sign up for a 5% CD almost anywhere.  That must be fantasyland for today’s younger generation.  If you aren’t rewarded for saving, why do it?

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-10-25 03:47 PM

“If you aren’t rewarded for saving, why do it?”

To me, that is the most pernicious problem resulting from the bubble crash. With interest rates at zero for an extended period of time, the only reason any saves is because they know it’s a good life habit. There is no other reward.

Astute Observation by Stock Investor
2011-10-25 12:03 PM

“IHB: It would also dramatically lower prices and cause the bankruptcy of most of America’s banks. I love it.”

Be careful what you wish for. U.S. economy is not competitive. If most banks die unexpectedly, shutdown will be inevitable. It is point of no return. Do not expect any recovery, because China and others will capture international markets.

Banks are like terrorists these days. They have a bomb - big one. They demand money from taxpayers and expect to give nothing in return.

Astute Observation by awgee
2011-10-25 01:13 PM

IR - Reading the above posts, do you think gold is in a bubble?

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-10-25 03:52 PM

I do think gold is a bubble, but it won’t burst until people stop feeling the need to flee to safety.

I’ll make this bold guess: gold will crash when inflation actually arrives. Markets are always forward looking. Most are buying gold now, in a time of deflation because they are seeking safety, and they are anticipating future inflation. When the inflation actually arrives, people will sell gold in anticipation of inflation ending. With inflation will come alternative investments yielding better returns. People will flee gold in favor of these other investments.

Ultimately, I can’t get excited about gold because gold gives me no other gold. It is purely a safety and speculation play. If gold had cashflow, perhaps I would find it more compelling, but it doesn’t, so I don’t.

That being said, gold has another several years of rally left in it, IMO.

Astute Observation by John CPA JD
2011-10-25 04:10 PM

Schiff is a radical right person with abolish the income tax. In otherwords, he is a nut case. Things will not be near as bad as he proclaims.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-10-25 04:42 PM

I was hoping someone would share this simple truth. Thank you.

Astute Observation by finsup
2011-10-27 03:07 PM

I am neither a member of the “Radical Right” nor am I a “nutcase.”  I am, however, the founder and owner of a $10M business located in the SE US.  As such, I feel somewhat qualified to comment on our current income tax system—it is a massive drain on productivity and the creation of real wealth.  Simplify the system, either by flat tax, 9-9-9, or Fair Tax (i.e., national sales tax) and this country’s economy will take off.

This, IrvineRenter, is the “simple truth.”

Astute Observation by wheresthebeef
2011-10-25 05:03 PM

Schiff may be a nutcase and his views might be too extreme.  HOWEVER, history has proven his predictions were far better than just about any other pundit out there.  Either the other pundits are too stupid or they don’t want to “tell the truth” and are afraid of rocking the boat.

Astute Observation by SanJoseRenter
2011-10-25 08:30 PM

> Schiff is a radical right person with abolish the income tax. In otherwords, he is a nut case.

Almost 1 million of America’s most educated, talented citizens waste their careers as “tax professionals.”

If a flat tax can liberate even 1 of those people to do productive work, it’s worth it.

Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 proposal resonates with people for 2 reasons:

1) everybody knows our tax system is shameful.

2) Americans are starved for policy. They’ll listen to anybody who is willing to think about the future of this country, instead of empty sound-bite rhetoric. Even a pizza salesman.

Astute Observation by IndyLew
2011-10-25 05:15 PM

Some simple truths that are touched on but ignored by the MSM and at times, economists:  First, in persistent high unemployment, local real estate values deflate or plummet (rents and home values both); schools empty, young people especially move, government also cuts back employment.  Second, what is different this time is that in California and Nevada with obscene rates of underemployment/unemployment, one would expect 5% or more of the younger family population to LEAVE for greener pastures.  They haven’t, apparently.  When they do leave the state, as now it is clear the jobs aren’t there, won’t be there, then see “First” above. To reduce California unemployment to 6%, 6% of the workers have to leave, with their families; in Nevada, it is more like 8% have to leave.  Either they don’t leave, or more and more are laid off as some also leave.  Now factor that into your housing future value predictions, say three million Californians leave, think that may have an impact?

Astute Observation by BD
2011-10-25 06:57 PM

I won’t buy a house again until interest rates have normalized at the 50 year long term average.  This may not happen in my life time and I am now 40.  This said, people must understand that people - for the most part - only care about their monthly cost of ownership.  With interest rates artificially low monthly costs of ownership don’t look too bad…but, not if but when rates rise dramatically we will see monthly costs of ownership skyrocket and consequently a tremendous loss of housing prices. 

Only if you plan to live in the house for the term of the loan or until death does this make sense.  You can buy a 1M dollar house with 20% down at 4% today but, what happens when you sell the house 20 years from now at a simple 8% rate???  The result is that all of the equity you have accumulated in 20 years is whipped out…because monthly carrying costs are double and in 20 years of a 30 year term you still have only built 50% equity!! This is amortization and leverage!!! 

I live in a house that costs my landlord 8K a month and my rent is 4500.  Stupid.  Good luck to people calling a bottom in prices.  These will grind lower as rates rise.  And if rates don’t rise???  Pobre Si!  That means the economy is soo weak that we will be in and out of recession for the next 20 years - every 4 years. 

My .02

BD

My .02

Astute Observation by Filton Meadman
2011-10-25 08:32 PM

Re: Schiff

And I quote

“abolish Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and the FHA”

“abolish the mortgage interest deduction”

“abolish the income tax”

Gee, what a surprise, typical OC John Birch (or is it John Wayne?) type of conservative nonsense in an OC blog.

The above are of course all GREAT policies that served the country and the economy well until they fell into the hands of W. Bush who undecided to unregulate EVERYTHING.

Duh.

What a croc.

Astute Observation by wheresthebeef
2011-10-25 10:19 PM

Your buddy Barry isn’t exactly trying to reign in the regulation now is he?  Face it folks, you have two idiotic parties here (Ds and Rs).  They both serve their elite Wall St. and banker masters equally.  This country will keep circling the drain until this cycle is broken!

Astute Observation by MortgagesByMark
2011-10-27 08:36 AM

Anybody that automatically blames everything on one party but says nothing about the other automatically has zero credibility in my mind. You’re just a mindless partisan hack. BOTH political parties have a lot of responsibility for the current mess.

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