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Beating a dead horse will leave you angry and tired.
I wish the horse was dead. When I saw that Cali created another buyer credit, my jaw dropped and I realized the horse is still galloping down the trail.
Hats off to IR for chasing the horse.
I figure this will be making the rounds of the internet today so it might as well be posted here too:
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2010/03/31/
Thanks, Tim. Look for it in tomorrow’s post.
My pleasure to contribute, albeit ever so slightly.
Glad you liked it!
Why should you be over the housing bubble? It is continuing with government support. The Federal Reserve has created $1.25 Trillion out of thin air and bought MBS to prop up home prices and they have been “successful.”
Oh yeah, today is the last day the Fed is buying MBS.
Unless it changes it’s mind. IMO, the Fed will change it’s mind and the Fed will be buying more mortgage backed securities when it sees that home prices are decreasing again.
Imagine for a second what home prices would be without $1,25 Trillion of created money to buy paper. Is there really anybody stupid enough to think the bubble is over?
Common sense says that we are at a nominal price bottom.
Unfortunately it is not a positive bottom, quite the contrary. It is an extremely destructive bottom with government controls.
Common sense? Take your common sense and put your money where the mouth is: buy a home or two now. Make it a real nice one because if the bottom is in then it would have to be a great investment especially at these rates.
But but but, you are supposed to be hopping mad at all the people making money hand over fist at YOUR expense. You need to be hating on people, don’t you get it. The government doesn’t control things, PEOPLE do, now stop trying to place the blame on the top, and start hating on your neighbor like the blog wants you too. Do you honestly wonder why people like David from AZ LOVE this blog?
I’ve been reading this blog for many months, and what started out good, is quickly becoming the same ol same ol’ CRAP. It may be time for me to move on, as the increasing attempts to create ill will and division, will not help people, nor solve any problems. On the bright side, perhaps soon everyone will be of like mind and form a nice tight clique where opinions do not deviate, and everyone feels justified hating their neighbor. Best of luck with that.
Swiller, just what do YOU think is right and appropriate for the times we are living in?
I think government bailouts were wrong….for banksters, or home owners. I think principal reductions and modifications are wrong, and they shouldn’t have been done. I think the ones responsible for creating this bubble should be held liable, tried by a jury, and punished. (This will never happen as the Senate, House, President(s), Federal Reserve, banksters would all be indicted)
I think we should stop hating the people around us, as it solves nothing. We need to focus our energies at the top, because that is where things really make a difference. All these people living off “your” money, wouldn’t be living off your money if all the above mentioned didn’t approve. We wouldn’t be in this situation if regulation was in place so banksters couldn’t hand out money to anyone who could fog a mirror.
Sure I’m pissed I lost my a$$ and years of investment, but I’m not gonna blame the person down the block for it. Even if they are scamming the system, I look with disgust on their actions, but I still hold the SYSTEM responsible for not only letting this happen, but planning it and feeding it. I think the government and the banksters want americans so laden with debt, they have no time to THINK about things like freedom.
how do you expect to change the system? irresponsible system will fail if we responsibly opt out. we still have freedom to opt out and change the system to work responsibly. this blog plays role in educating the masses, for people to not participate in this irresponsible system. if it takes hate and blame for people to think twice about participating, it for good use.
Why not blame the person down the street, if he/she went and got a loan they couldn’t afford, or used a HELOC to finance a conspicuous consumption lifestyle?? You SHOULD be angry at them. U r sticking your head in the sand. I think you’re blaming the banks because it’s easier to blame a faceless institution than the guy down the street. Well, it took two to tango on this one, the banks are hugely at fault, too. But they had to have willing customers to make this work. Put the blame where it belongs and let the people who created it deal with the consequences of their actions. I don’t hate them. I just want them to pay for their stupid decisions. I have enough bills to pay, including my ridiculously high taxes.
It’s the SYSTEM, man. Not my fault if I stole money from the banks, the government, and the taxpayers. The SYSTEM made me buy that Porsche, and borrow money to pay my personal bills. I’m a victim of the MAN, man. S’not my fault man. Hey, you want some dope?
My deadbeat neighbors had so many boats,hummers and other toys parked on their property you couldnt see the front yards.These are the same bozos who skip out during the night(you can always tell when the u haul shows up).Thanks for running our property values down even more,posers.What happens to the wives who had all the lipo and enhancements who have to schlep the laundry and groceries up stairs to the apartment in Santa Ana or whereever these land barons end up ?
Why is Congress considering financial regulation reform? Is the path forward from here to just keep doing what we’re doing today? Change is coming very soon wrt Fed MBS purchases, or should that continue indefinitely? Should Fannie/Freddie be able to tap Treasury whenever they want?
Do we want people who completely missed the bubble shaping policy going forward, or should we listen to people who:
Identified something was wrong,
Had an idea what actions were causing the problems.
Acknowledging the housing bubble & its importance in the recession is not a universal idea among policymakers.
I don’t think the point of this blog it to be upset about your neighbors because they won the lottery but to provide market analysis that no other blog provides and make a difference (more and more people are reading this blog and nefron even shared it with his reps).
Oh Swiller knock it off with the hatred canard. We all want what is fair. Expressing outrage over the unfairness that has been inflicted upon us by housedebtors does not rise to the level of hatred. You are whipping up a silly hysterical fantasy.
I have emailed all of my representatives again today, after skimming today’s blog. The second time in what, five days - I emailed after Saturday’s blog. I’ve had enough. I have kids, I’m trying to be responsible, I’m waiting for prices to come down just a little more, and this is what is going on. It’s one thing to keep blowing air into the bubble, but the thought of my kids, having to slave away in some crappy job, to pay off the sweaters in that closet and pay off BMW’s for these jerks just makes my blood boil. And meanwhile, I’m renting, getting about 0.1% interest on my savings and expecting it to be worthless in a few years.
I’ve had it. I don’t know anything about those Tea Party people and get the feeling they are a bunch of crackpots, but I am ready to sign up.
I am through with the Democrats and the Republicans. I am emailing the link to this blog to everyone I can think of, including the White House. I know they don’t read emails, but hey, it’s the principle of the thing.
Good for you, nefron!
I feel the same way as you regarding Tea Party.
MAKE SURE we all kick out those politicians that try to reinflate the housing bubble this Nov.
Two of the son of the bitches that should be kicked out are:
Anna Caballero
Ron Calderon
This bitch and asshole started the bill for a SECOND round of $200,000,000 of your hard-earned tax money that goes into giving $10,000 tax credit to keep home price high in CA affecting this May 1.
Spread the words.
Come on Good People of this wonderful blog. WE CAN DO IT!
I agree with you guys 100%. I am sick and tired of all this bullshit. The so called “leaders” of this country are nothing but a bunch of corrupt, self serving whores.
In case the idiots in Sacramento haven’t been keeping up with current events…we are fucking bankrupt in this state. With expected 20B plus deficits for the next 5 years, why the hell would they throw another 200M in the incinerator? I’ll tell you why, because they needed to repay their homebuilder and CAR donors for the last hooker and blow party they were invited to. These assholes will probably raise taxes again and substantially cut services.
What is going on at all levels is getting to the point of insanity. You get punished for living within your means, saving money and not making poor financial decisions. Meanwhile we get to subsidize the opulent lifestyles like that HELOC bitch in her Newport Coast mansion. Fuck all these greedy people gaming the system, gambling Wall St. bankers who enabled this mess and the corrupt politicians who threw the taxpayers under the bus.
Sorry about the profanity, I needed to vent. Like I always, playing by the rules in this society gets you nowhere!
nefron,
while some tea partiers seem a bit overzealous, they are on the right track. There are many sane, rational, intelligent people who share similar views but offer less fodder for news channels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4yBrxmEOkY
Planet Reality - “Beating a dead horse will leave you angry and tired.”
You should listen to your own advice.
I would heed it if I was angry about something.
I don’t have any debt.
Do you?
I don’t have any debt whatsoever myself and you still grate on my nerves. What would debt have to do with anything anyway?
I think lots of people come to this blog for some psychological release. Obviously many are just waiting for some price decrease or another, and I think the blog is a good place for them to congregate.
Your psychological release seems to be an odd mix of playing a fake role of the enlightened one mixed in with random lame attempts to win petty internet arguments no one really cares about.
I’ve followed this blog since not too long after its inception and there’s always been smart asses trolling the blog at one point or another just to take a piss. They always move on, you’re just the particular fad of the moment.
That clown Newport Skipper was the last troll here. There’s always a new one every few months.
Planet Reality, are you a real estate agent or did you just purchase a home in Irvine? I’m guessing one or maybe both, that would explain some of your rambling.
No, I do not have any debt. It’s quite perplexing to me why you would ask such a silly question.
“...if I was angry about something.” It appears to me that you tend to get your knickers in a twist on a regular basis…just sense that anger vibe.
IR invests time and energy to write today’s blog, and then you respond with a snide comment at 6.44 am. Wanker.
You are not over the housing bubble, because the bubble is not over yet. The bubble will be over when the foreclosures that need to happen have happened, and prices have stabilized at sustainable levels. The bubble will be behind us when unemployment is closer to 5% than 10%. It will be done when we have financial regulation in place that limits the abuses that inflated the bubble.
I am also holding out for an exit strategy for the GSE’s. Either pared down pure public programs, or split up into 5 or 10 pure private programs.
Whether or not the bottom has hit depends on the speed in which foreclosures hit the market. If it’s a huge flood all at once, then the market will go down further. If its just a few at a time, even a lot more than are currently being released, then prices will probably remain mostly flat.
Unemployment will never be 5% again.
If the gov/t gave everybody a job we would have 0% unemployment. Joking.
If we let prices and wages fall/rise naturally and allowed the private sector to function sans gov/t subsidy, we would see very few unemployed.
Read america’s great depression by murray rothbard. it is overly detailed and numbers oriented but explains how the expansion of the money supply and manipulation of interest rates create feast/famine boom/bust scenarios of far greater proportion than the free market would ever allow. Thank you politicians and thank you federal reserve.
Just thinking of baby-fannies competing with each other I realized that a lot of our problem is from risk-correlation during crisis (‘during a crisis all correlations go to one’).
It would take a period of home price decline to bankrupt a baby-fannie. That decline would spank every fannie, making it seem like one giant fannie all over again. I’m not sure the degree to which breaking up TBTF institutions improves the situation. If every SETF (small-enough-to-fail) acts identically, what’s different?
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/03/fbi-warns-of-mortgage-fraud-‘epidemic’-seeks-to-head-off-‘next-sl-crisis’.html
I would like to be provided with one example of a family that truly deserves some type of additional taxpayer assistance to avoid foreclosure. I’ve read many media articles of hard-luck stories, but there are never enough details about their finances to conclude help is deserving. This “deserving family” doesn’t exist for my standards, because I can’t even come-up with a hypothetical of a deserving situation.
Can anyone even fabricate a family deserving of additional taxpayer help to avoid foreclosure? There are just three reasons you have trouble paying your mortgage:
1) You bought too much house,
2) You spend too much, and/or
3) You don’t earn enough to service the mortgage debt.
Your “help” is the very consumer-friendly foreclosure process.
My only point would be that it might be possible for the bank to renegotiate for a principal balance higher than their recovery in foreclosure. In that case, homeowner ‘keeps’ home, and bank improves their bottom line. Potential buyer has to find another home, and this might be a flipper, so assessing the collateral damage there is mixed.
In this scenario, the homeowner would need to share future appreciation w/bank & take a credit hit.
The problem, imo, is that even at a principal balance equal to what they’d get net in foreclosure, many ‘owners’ still can’t afford the payments. Nothing will ‘fix’ that (unless you call foreclosure a ‘fix’)
Deserving is irrelevant. It is wrong to steal from one person to give to another. It matters not if the other “deserves” it. That is a matter of opinion and should be a matter for private charity, not government force.
Agreed awgee, but try and stop paying taxes and see what happens. Labor should not be taxed…purchases should.
Coincidence that Income Tax and the Federal Reserve were passed in the same year of 1913?
Now people are pissed because Jack down the block is getting something for nothing, but they aren’t. It’s human nature. Right is right, regardless if the government says it’s right OR wrong. Taking money by force is wrong. Putting someone in jail for a non-crime is wrong (smoking pot, prostitution). Giving people money for nothing through subsidies is wrong.
The only thing the government should have been doing is regulating banksters so we wouldn’t get ripped off and screwed, but the banksters bought out the politicians through “contributions”, and now the banksters get our money. They LOVE IT when articles like the one today comes out and re-directs the very real, and very deserving anger onto your neighbors and let’s the scum buckets fade into the background.
Round up the posse, and get out to vote for more of your Defacrats and Banana Republicans. If you are really mad, go look in the mirror, flip yourself off, and accept your blame. The first step towards recovery is acceptance.
Tax consumption. Dont tax savings. Don’t tax earnings. Allow free market interest rates by removing gov/t guarantees (fannie/freddie). That solves/avoids most of our current problems.
If you are thinking to yourself, “hey those are crazy ideas, that’ll never work”; take a step back and look at current policies and our current situation. Am I the crazy one?
I totally understand the anger and agree this is not over yet. The hard part is the fraud for me and the manipulation of the system where it’s all about me and crap on you.
When you see this in life especially here so prevalent in SCAL you begin to hate living here. Even as a renter now 5 years the neighbors look at you like how did you get your money not how are you I see your son moved out but how did you buy that.
The Quality of people is surely lacking this is what the housing bubble has done.
And those who missed the chance at free money or a nice home are really pissed.
Many here also forget the damage done to other areas that have no chance of returning to normal.
Those folks who can manage to pay their bills staying in a dead town have no hope of ever getting their money back out of their home.
And so many fraud cases as well. So many were swept up into this mess and had no idea their mortgage would increase to the point where they lost their home. Those folks I can feel for their stupidity.
But everyone thought housing would go up forever. Very few of us didn’t get caught in some way or another.
The biggest mistake was allowing Wallstreet to get their hands onto the American dream. Regulation is surely needed and I mean strick new rules to keep Wallstreet out of the housing market.
Just like with students loans they need to be cut out of the housing market. The bankers only motive is making money. That in itself is the breeding ground for fraud.
In China, a rush to own a home of your own
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/03/31/2253822.aspx
Struggling Scottsdale Realtor Kills Children
This is right up the street from me. Local NEWS reported he was “struggling financially”.
That scumbag is expected to survive. Too bad for the little boys.
I sure hope the police are guarding that room. There are few things in this world where I would go absolutely postal, this would be one of them.
The home gamers are an easy target produced by the banksters. The home gamers see the bank getting bailed out and shout me too! The banks need them to further the bailout packages and wealth transfers. Renters and lower middle class may be shouting me too, but the political hacks will say I’m trying the best I can while plotting with the banksters.
The house gamers and banksters demand another round, which they are getting. I don’t know how to stop this madness and theft. Maybe BHO will pull out the defective CDO card on the banksters to get the money back or nationalize the banks, but he’s already been paid and is surrounded by GS banksters and paid congressmen to make sure he complies. Socialists generally want nationalized large corp GSEs that the elite run and that feed up upon one another. Nazi Germany is an excellent example of applied socialism. Too bad for Germany, the other socialists and communists leaders didn’t want to be second fiddle.
One issue that keeps most working people’s political influence low is that they have to work more than 45 hours M-F and hours with family. Not much time for activism. The house gamers, GSE’s and banksters work is activism for bailouts.
I forgot to mention that the first new order fell apart when the world leaders and banksters started stabbing each other in the back.
I think the banksters will start stabbing the home debtor stogies in the back soon for these home debtors will no longer be useful. A new generation of useful stogies will be needed by the banksters.
In 1993, 6 months after my husband and I bought our first home (at 26 percent ratio) rather than the 33 percent that was allowed, we almost both lost our jobs in the same month. Neither possible job loss had anything to do with our own performance at work but with employer downsizing etc. Long story short….even though I
we purchased a home responsibly we were very worried (we had no other debt). At this time homes were also decreasing in value….at one point our home decreased by about 20%. Our first thought was how do we make sure that we keep our home….second job? cut expenses? We had no thought or desire to have assistance from ANYBODY!! Why? Because I was raised with the old fashioned values of hard work, responsibility and perserverance. Our home was our HOME, not something to be treated like a bank. Today, because we faced this difficult time way back when, our home is almost paid in full. We still have no other debt whatsover. Stupid us…....
I’m sorry for the people who are in the situation of potentially losing their home. However, I believe the only people who should be helped are those who are victims of this tragedy….those who lost their jobs or suffered furloughs due to the dominoe affect. Focus this aid on unemployment benefits given with proof that the unemployed person (or underemployed) is seriously searching for a job. 3-6 months reprieve from mortgage payments? Seriously? While you consider forgiving principal for others??? You are simply delaying the inevitable….focus on JOBS and on helping those who LOST THEIR JOBS DUE TO OTHER’s GREED AND STUPIDITY. That being said my husband and I are lucky to be employed so I am not writing this because I have been a victim in that respect. I have lost close to a half million in my home value and stocks/investments. Regardless this entitlement to the irresponsible sickens me. And yes, I am in real estate and don’t think our BROKE state should be giving an additional homebuyer credit…are they FOOLS? Oh, right, they are.
One last thought…....when someone loses their home to foreclosure or short sale or whatever, they ARE NOT HOMELESS!!!! They can RENT, GET EDUCATED ABOUT PERSONAL FINANCE and start again when they can actually buy a house while understanding how to manage their money responsibly. Did anyone ever think this correction needs to happen…...what are our kids going to do about housing in the next 10 to 15 years? Oh ya, since their paychecks will amount to lunch money after the taxes they will pay they won’t ever have to worry about actually being able to purchase a home.
Stop the governement entitlements now…..contact your representative, the White house, the media….if enough people speak (you don’t have to be a hater to have an educated opinion) then someone will finally listen…...hopefully. Otherwise, the values in our society have officially been decimated and America is nothing but an embarrassment to morals and integrity.
This is a great post! Thanks for sharing your
experience. I’m waiting for RE prices
to reset so I can buy a nicer place.
I do not think I can afford such a
place at housing bubble prices. No
one really can, you know. If the
government continues to play games,
we won’t see a reset until wild
inflation brings price/value parity
eventually. Welcome to the Weimar
Republic!