I Don’t Care Anymore

Nov 14th, 2008  
by IrvineRenter  in Short Sale

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 06:44 AM

It may seem difficult to believe, but the psychology is still out there that real-estate is a great investment and that now is surely the time to buy since prices are lower than they were at this time 1 day ago.

Of course, the people who tell you that now is the time to buy are the exact same ones who give you a blank stare when you ask them to explain how the bubble inflated in the first place.  You ask them about the debt-to-income affordability and they look at you and shrug.

When people start talking about the economy bouncing back and house prices taking off, the first question that I immediately ask is the following:

“Wouldn’t it be better for the economy if housing was much cheaper so that I would not spend as much money on shelter and have more left over to buy Ipods and Escalades with?”

“Aren’t soaring house prices actually bad for the economy since it causes more and more people to take on more and more debt with little money left over for Ipods and Escalades?”

I typically chalk these types of personalities up to the stereotypical lazy free-lunch American who wants to achieve riches with the most minimal of effort.  It’s like the gambler winning 100K on a game of BlackJack and immediately drawing the conclusion that he is a gambling genius.  He then decides to be a fulltime professional BlackJack player while all those other saps who get up and make things from 9 to 5 are idiots.

Of course we all know how this story ends.

They just want to “get theirs” buy being a person in the middle of a scheme.

They are your bubble-chasers.  While you and I are building and “making things”, these people are trying to figure out how they can position themselves to catch the next bubble and profit off of the patsy bagholder whom is not as astute in bubble-chasing as they are.

So when I see these houses where the owner is asking 100K over what they paid, I immediately ask:

“Why do you deserve a 100K profit at my expense for living in and crapping in this house for the last 2 years?  Hmmm?”

It’s going to be awhile before the masses realize the real-estate is a dumb investment and they are much better off putting their money in the bank.  We have to let a few more knife catchers take the plunge and get stuck holding the bag first.

These people are going to start looking for the casino exits in 2011-2012 as capitulation sets in.  There should be some realistic deals out there by then.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 06:53 AM

Astute Observation by cara
2008-11-14 08:25 AM

sweet graphic, where is it from?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 08:53 AM

I tried to post some links, but the stupid spam filter keeps blocking my posts.

Just google “Currier & Ives grow poor wiki”

Astute Observation by BI
2008-11-17 02:43 AM

As much as I enjoy your graphic I have to disagree.

The current business environment in the US does not reward hard work.

Youth recognize this.

Chasing bubbles can make you rich and working hard rarely will.

Luck and timing (hmm… sounds like gambling ) is what will make current and future generations rich…

cheers

Astute Observation by Perspective
2008-11-14 10:39 AM

This is going to sound very elitist, but, I think this mentality grew so wildly because it was the best and easiest way for the “middle class” to “get rich.” (I hate the term “middle class,” but I mean households earning between the 25th – 75th percentiles).  Why go to 4+ long years of undergrad or to grad school to learn a profession and spend all that money, time, and energy?  Why do that when I can read Rich Dad Poor Dad and flip houses (I’m not knocking this book, I actually liked it). 

Taking away the idea that residential real estate is a “road to riches” destroys the aspiration of many Americans.  We like the quick hit to wealth, not the long slog.  “Joe the Plumber” encapsulates this best with his deeply held belief that higher taxes on the “rich” will hurt him very soon.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 11:25 AM

Precisely. 

As the author of ‘Rich Dad Poor Dad’ will probably tell you, selling ‘How To Get Rich’ books to the masses for 14.95 a piece is one way to get rich.

I’ll take it one step further and say that housing enrichment is not even an ‘aspiration’ of many Americans, but actually an ‘entitlement’ to many Americans.

The house price fantasy world that was engineered via decades of increased credit dollars and I.O.U monopoly money flooding the market and stimulating house prices has created an entitlement mentality (I have also seen it called a ‘social contract)’ among our citizenry that has lead to this commonly expressed notion that a homeowner deserves to earn a profit for doing nothing more than live in a house. 

People expect the government and the banks to hand out gobs of more and more credit to each new wave of home-buyers to keep the prices rising and the party going.

The longer a person lives in their house, the higher the profit they deserve.  Each new homebuyer owes their seller a specialy gratuity for the right to acquire their house.

Of course now, the majority of bag-holders are still living in their fantasy world and expressing righteous indignation that they have been screwed as society has defaulted against them on the social contract that they signed on to.

Astute Observation by DeathToSinan
2008-11-14 07:02 PM

With the upcoming inflation that the government is foisting on us, I don’t see how housing prices—along with everything else—won’t rise.  We’ll actually have to tape pieces of paper onto our currency to make room for all the extra zeros.

I may only be speaking for myself, but I don’t think people are allowed to work hard for money anymore—there’s too much outsourcing going on in too many sectors.  What’s left?

Astute Observation by BI
2008-11-17 02:37 AM

I agree 100%...
My company ( fortune 50 ) outsources everything possible. IT development, project managers, etc…
We really have a double wammy here..

Why work hard when executives will pay you as little as possible and outsource your job…

Why work hard when you can suck up any moral values you may have and write loans to hispanic families who can never in a million years repay them…

well..we can see what obama has in store…
I know, lets give everyone more money…a stimulus package will fix everything…

cheers

Astute Observation by Landmark
2008-11-14 04:07 PM

Classic—- I’m relatively new to the blog, but I now see why Arizona Dave is so popular. Very astute

Astute Observation by QualityPicks
2008-11-14 06:32 PM

I often like to get a feel for the psychology of the markets by asking my friends around. Right now we are in a bizarro world smile Everybody sounds negative, but they are all actually optimistic in my way of thinking. Why? Everybody keeps saying that “now is a great time to buy because everybody is so pessimistic”. I keep hearing things like “things are really bad right now, I won’t sell now because I won’t get what my property is really worth”. And there are tons of comments similar to that. The way I see it, they are reading all the negative news, and repeating what they hear, but they are actually optimistic and hopeful, and also, in a denial state that things can’t get worse.

One of my most responsible friends, has lately been looking to buy a bigger house. They are afraid that if they don’t buy right now, they might not be able to buy again in the future. They have been very responsible so far, and I think they remorse having been so responsible, when they could have bought much bigger house back in 2000. My friend even made a comment like “If I had known how housing works here in California, I would really have stretched myself beyond reason to buy as much house as possible”. This comes from a responsible and logical person, he is an engineer.

The truth is, very few of my friends have been affected by the housing bust. Right now it is still easier to see “how much I missed in gains”, rather than “how much I could have lost”.

It will take time before people change their minds and give up at much lower prices.

Astute Observation by nefron
2008-11-14 07:02 AM

Hey, I’m renting this same model a few streets away.  While I was watching the market in this area I was surprised that this one hadn’t sold, compared to other sales in the area.  It could be that it backs to a major street and isn’t particularly close to a green belt.  Probably there’s more to it than that.

Astute Observation by .
2008-11-14 07:15 AM

Look at the property sales history.  It doesn’t look like an auspicious place to buy a home.

Apr 11, 2003 $467,500
May 22, 2000 $35,000
Jul 26, 1989 $255,000
Dec 13, 1988 $32,000

Astute Observation by dafox
2008-11-14 10:39 AM

can someone shed some light on these $32k and $35k “sales”? I see them somewhat often on Redfin listings on other houses. I have a hard time someone just bought a house for that amount.

Astute Observation by Dave
2008-11-14 07:53 AM

It’s also just a few blocks away from the 405 freeway.

Astute Observation by LC
2008-11-14 12:39 PM

It is not a freeway. It is a wildlife corridor, with cars next to it.

Astute Observation by Buck Thrust
2008-11-14 07:14 AM

perhaps…. the realtor had been reading…. too much Celine

Astute Observation by nefron
2008-11-14 07:30 AM

Sorry I don’t get it.  What am I supposed to be reading into those numbers, besides the fact that they look strange?

Astute Observation by Texas Triffid Ranch
2008-11-14 08:35 AM

With the fake ellipses, I’m reminded of a very old article from Mad magazine in the late Fifties about how advertisers use ellipses to turn a really bad review into a seeming rave, and what will happen when that starts moving into other areas of life.  I think we’re seeing this happen with this listing, and just as how you replace bleeped-out words on television with much filthier words than what were actually bleeped, I can only imagine the horrible Mad Libs your faithful readers will add once they start filling in the blanks.

Let’s start.  “Charming 3 bedroom home with a nice open floorplan (that’s completely unusable by anyone other than minimalists) separate formal dining room perfect for the holidays (if you celebrate Guy Fawkes Day and Charles Manson’s birthday) nice kitchen with a breakfast bar (literally, sitting there on the counter with a glass of orange juice and a can of Slim-Fast) romantic fireplace just in time for winter and fall (in an area where you might actually use it once or twice every three years, while it sucks all of your air conditioning in summer up and into the north wind)...”

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2008-11-14 09:35 AM

That is funny. Yes, the realtors should be careful about this crew reading between the lines.

Astute Observation by jo
2008-11-14 03:07 PM

Great post, but go easy on Guy Fawkes Day. What’s wrong with huge bonfires and fireworks? Certainly a better way to spend an evening than celebrating a serial killer’s birthday!

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 08:50 AM

http://www.undergroundpolitics.com/index.php/markets_and_economy/wisdom_from_1875.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=1721323

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 08:51 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=1721323

Astute Observation by Kelja
2008-11-14 08:59 AM

The link to the graphic above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=1721323

Astute Observation by SoOCOwner
2008-11-14 10:06 AM

That living room furniture looks like it came from the Starship Enterprise.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2008-11-14 10:22 AM

I thought it looked like a Venus fly trap:

or perhaps The Little Shop of Horrors:

Astute Observation by SoOCOwner
2008-11-14 10:31 AM

Yes, I totally see it!!

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 01:52 PM

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2008-11-14 02:40 PM

LOL! That man-eating plant does not look out of place.

You should email me a copy of all the pictures you have done. It would make a great open thread weekend topic.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2008-11-14 04:02 PM

E-mail sent.  It had links in it so make sure your spam filter didn’t eat it.

Astute Observation by Mousebender
2008-11-14 10:52 AM

Another townhouse fraudulently listed as an SFR.

Astute Observation by Bitter Renter
2008-11-14 05:58 PM

Bastards!!

Astute Observation by nicholas sarko
2008-11-14 11:13 AM

well, now that credit has dried up and people can spend only what they earn or feel comfortable spending in the absence of credit, man! did you expect stores to fall off the table like that? circuit city is gone, who else will follow?

stunning the contrast between draining thousands in home equity to buy a big-screen tv every year and spending what the average american fool carries in his pocket—it turns out he’s hard put to afford a big mac!

Astute Observation by Bitter Renter
2008-11-14 06:04 PM

Yeah, but Circuit City going bankrupt wouldn’t have surprised me even if it had happened a few years ago.  Inferior to Best Buy in almost every way (and Best Buy isn’t exactly Shangri-La).

Astute Observation by DeathToSinan
2008-11-14 07:12 PM

Don’t forget that not too long ago, the Circuit City CEO came up with the brilliant plan to lay off all their better-paid, experienced salespeople in order to save money.  Heck, they saved so much money they had to file bankruptcy.  Why not save even more and just fire all their remaining employees immediately?

Astute Observation by Matt
2008-11-14 01:14 PM

IR, mind posting a few of those better deals in UP?
I’m not buying soon, but I like UP’s location and it’s one of the places I’ll be checking out in winter 2010.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2008-11-14 02:38 PM

I’ll post them all as I find them. I am looking forward to 2010 when I can start doing posts showing properties at or below rental parity and touting them as good deals.

Astute Observation by Landmark
2008-11-14 04:13 PM

Me tooo!

Astute Observation by Landmark
2008-11-14 05:59 PM

I would like to get IrvineRenter and others opinions on real estate as a long term investment?

Is real estate still a good investment in areas that are not inflated?

Is real estate still a good investment an areas that appreciate at 2-3% if you can break even or cash flow with 10 or 20% down?

Is real estate not a good investment anymore period?

When is real estate a good investment?

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2008-11-14 06:49 PM

Check out this post:

Investment Value of Residential Real Estate

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/investment-value-of-residential-real-estate/

Astute Observation by Landmark
2008-11-14 07:23 PM

Great info in the Value of residential real estate blog—anyone that hasn’t read it definately should. You should be paid for the info you post on here—- oh ya, or people could just buy your book =)

Astute Observation by Failedagent
2008-11-14 05:34 PM

Along time ago I thought theat the day would come when you could no longer “park your money” and make a profit through asset appreciation. The only way to make money would be the old fashioned “value added” approach where you had to physically do something that changed the material universe.I think this housing debacle and the looming baby boomer retirement demographic is going to make that a reality starting today.

Astute Observation by Cosmo Kramer
2008-11-15 12:51 AM

Now that’s curb appeal.  Mighty fine looking garage.

The living room reminds me of the SNL skit with the futuristic German(?) couple who are completely nuts and always have insanely uncomfortable furniture.  “Nuni?”  “No! Neww nee”    confused

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