Housing bubble makes Calfornia cities miserable

Feb 3rd, 2011  
by IrvineRenter  in Library News

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2011-02-03 11:39 PM

One aspect of the merserible cities that was not covered is being a “commuter” city for long drives to the bay area for work.  Sac and Stockton with neighboring towns skyrocketed because of the high housing prices in the bay area.  Gas price went up and employment bubble popped in the bay area with the WJC’s internet virtual accounting of the 1990’s came home to roost in the 2000’s. GWB’s boost with low interest give it one last bucket of gasoline to the housing price fire. Who wants to spend 2 or more hours each way on the road?  Only 20 to 25 hours on the highway a week.  The joys of commuting by car.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 07:24 AM

French Doors! Magnifique!

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-02-04 01:11 PM

It took a few weeks before someone slipped “French Doors” into a description, but the graphic made its debut. Thanks for creating it.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 01:28 PM

We definitely need more houses with French Doors.

Astute Observation by darms
2011-02-04 03:04 PM

I still miss your bass boards….

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 04:35 PM

I forgot about the bass boards!

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 07:30 AM

384.00$ HOA

OUCH!

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-02-04 07:41 AM

Welcome to Irvine.

Even with that high HOA this 1440 sq. ft. condo is at rental parity at a $2180 monthly cost of ownership.

Misery loves company, it’s too bad Irvine can’t join the misery party.  It’s like Mardi Gras every night at Irvine Spectrum.

Astute Observation by Joseph
2011-02-04 08:26 AM

LOL, you sound like a recording:

Posted by Planet Reality on 01/28/11 at 09:40 AM
“It’s seems like the week before Christmas every night at the Irvine Spectrum.”

Posted by Planet Reality on 12/29/10 at 10:25 AM
“Spend a weekday night at the Irvine Spectrum and it’s like the recession never happened.”

Posted by Planet Reality on 12/29/10 at 11:15 AM
“in many parts of the country Malls have closed or are on the verge of closing, yet Irvine Spectrum and South Coast show a far different reality”

Posted by Planet Reality on 09/17/10 at 06:38 AM
“Take one trip to the Irvine Spectrum and marvel at the activity.  The future of Irvine is bright.  There is no comparison.”

Posted by Planet Reality on 02/04/11 at 07:41 AM
“It’s like Mardi Gras every night at Irvine Spectrum.

Which is it, dude?  Is the Irvine Spectrum like Mardi Gras?  Chistmas?  Kwanzaa?  Hey, I’ve got one: April Fools’ Day!

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-02-04 08:41 AM

Irvine Spectrum….

A Schmorgesborg of Schadenfreude kryptonite.
Enough to make a hater go home and cower in the corner of a TIC apartment and avoid talkirvine for 6 months.

Astute Observation by Eat that!
2011-02-04 10:48 AM

You definitely have your talking points down.  Tell your supervisor to give a you bonus!

Astute Observation by BeachRenter
2011-02-04 11:16 AM

The malls ARE crowded - They are full of people that know nothing else to do. People in O.C. have become programmed over the last 10 years that if it’s the weekend, it must be mall time.  I watch these people and they go, they hang out, they wander through the stores, and they leave…..empty handed.  Go to South Coast plaza and notice the huge amount of people in the common areas - Then go into a high end boutique and you will have the place to yourself.  We have been programmed to consume so even if we can’t put something in the offering plate, we still go to the house of worship.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2011-02-04 01:12 PM

“We have been programmed to consume so even if we can’t put something in the offering plate, we still go to the house of worship.”

Great analogy.

Astute Observation by lowrydr310
2011-02-04 03:38 PM

With such nice weather for the past month, it’s surprising that I don’t see more people doing outdoor activities. I spent the past few weekends at the beach with my kids, playing in the sand, throwing balls/frisbees around, flying kites, and even a little swimming in the 57 degree water. When I wasn’t at the beach, I had them out on hikes. FREE ACTIVITIES that don’t require much effort; it’s even better when we pack our own lunch and snacks and eat picnic style.

I despise malls or any other commercial shopping center. I only tolerate them when I *need* something.

I wonder if the vanity plate “MALL H8R” is taken?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 09:17 AM

LOL

PR - tell us how you really feel about “Irvine Spectrum”.

We have this huge mall down here called the “Tempe Marketplace” near ASU.  It’s got all kinds of restaurants, shopping, etc, etc.  It’s packed to the rafters every Saturday.  Folks jammed in like Sardines, waiting in huge lines at overpriced restaurants.  That must mean that the economy of Phoenix is booming and also explain why Phoenix dodged the house crash and recession.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-02-04 09:30 AM

That’s fantastic news, Phoenix must be similar to Irvine with current prices the same or greater than late 2008 prices.  it’s nice to know AZ has some areas that are doing well 5 years into the “crash”

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 09:41 AM

Indeed - the lines at the Fish Market and P.F Chang’s prove it.  Clearly Phoenix was spared the “crash”.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 09:45 AM

PR -

I can totally see you hanging out at a place named “Irvine Spectrum”.  The name suits you perfectly.  I might even suggest that you consider using it as your IHB name at some point.

Astute Observation by wheresthebeef
2011-02-04 09:56 AM

Despite his denial, I am 99% certain that PR is a loan owner in Irvine.  This is just another way to justify to himself that buying that overpriced Irvine crapbox was a smart financial move.

The Fed and FCBs will save Irvine…just keep telling yourself that PR.

Have you seen the 10yr note today!  This won’t bode well for housing prices.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-02-04 10:53 AM

Sure, keep telling yourself that.
Meanwhile, the demand for new product in Irvine continues to outpace supply despite the “economic downturn” and interest rate volatility.
Who’s buying all these new homes?
The Lucky Charms Elf and the Easter Bunny

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 11:08 AM

the demand for new product in Irvine continues to outpace supply

What a catchy statement, tenmagnet.  Did you generate it from one of those Corporate Bull$hit phrase generators?

Here is one that I just generated to add to yours:

credibly customize high-quality niche markets”

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-02-04 11:53 AM

Yeah, Dave
Kind of like the homemade B.S. generator you use when someone mentions they bought.
“Irvine is not Different”
“What new home sales?”
“You will lose your shirt”
“The 10-year Treasury at 3.64% will ruin everything”

Astute Observation by Vincenzo
2011-02-04 09:24 AM

No wonder, Spectrum is the only fun place in Irvine. Try to drive on Main after work hours, not a man around, empty buildings for lease…

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 09:43 AM

Oh stop, you are going to rain on PR’s party.  Just shush and let the man wank himself.

Astute Observation by Walter
2011-02-04 10:11 AM

Careful there, the authorities forbid wanking at Irvine Spectrum.

Astute Observation by Vincenzo
2011-02-04 10:21 AM

Also, there are huge lines to buy $1 movie tickets at Starplex. Apparently, people don’t want to go to $12 movies at Spectrum, the main entertainment there.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-02-04 11:14 AM

@Vincenzo:

Really? Have you been at the Spectrum on weekends or Friday nights?

Interestingly enough, during the boom years, the Woodbridge Dollar theatre didn’t do so well (changed ownership two times I think).

But that doesn’t mean no one is watching movies at the Spectrum. Costco makes those movies less than 8 bucks… and there are tons of those in Irvine.

Astute Observation by lunatic fringe
2011-02-04 11:58 AM

That’s funny, I was actually at the Spectrum last night and it was a ghost town.

Astute Observation by Chris
2011-02-04 07:47 PM

Blame it on the snow.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2011-02-04 09:44 AM

Mortgage Bankers Miss Out on Profits
Wall Street Journal (02/04/11) P. A4 Troianovski, Anton
Demonstrating the rapid recovery for prime office space in certain cities, Munich-based GLL Real Estate Partners will buy the Mortgage Bankers Association’s former headquarters in Washington, D.C., for $101 million. The seller is CoStar Group Inc., which paid $41.3 million for the property a year ago. MBA purchased the edifice for $79 million when it was being built in 2007 but owed more on its $75 million mortgage than the property was worth when it was forced to sell last February.

http://images.mortgagebankers.org/newsletters/urlForward.asp?TargetPage=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704376104576122531523284382.html#printMode

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-02-04 10:11 AM

10-year treasury 3.64% ... ouch!

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-02-04 11:09 AM

Your an odd one, you get way too much pleasure stabbing yourself with a butter knife.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 11:25 AM

Show us how it is done, PR.  You must have a butter knife lying around there somewhere.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-02-04 11:26 AM

All I know is that the Bernank is losing control of the bond market in this zombie economy.  And ... the monthly outlay of an Irvine home will be increasing in the coming weeks, and that will apply more pressure on pricing.  smile

Astute Observation by octal77
2011-02-04 11:57 AM

...Bernanke is losing control of the bond market…

[mortage interest rates are closely tied to 10yr]

Not only for new money purchase loans, but
for re-fi’s of all colors and strips.

Case in point:

A majority of HELOC re-casts won’t even hit
a peak until well into 2012.

Given the spectre of higher interest rates, how
would it be arithmetically possible for asset
prices (ie Homes in Irvine) *NOT* to fall?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 12:51 PM

Interest rates are actually going down no matter what you say; PR and tenmagnet have assured the blog..

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2011-02-04 01:01 PM

@AZDave:

Easy now… posters on this blog also “assured” that interest rates would rise considerably and the gov would not be able to interfere with the crash.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 01:21 PM

True, but PR has been gleefully gallivanting around the blog boasting of his past calls with tenmagnet right there cheering him on.

On 12/24/10, PR stated that “Nothing has changed, rates will continue to break record lows”

Then ochomehunter stated that he expected to see 2% interest rates at some point in the future to which PR replied “100% agree”.

It certainly seems like rates are heading in the opposite direction,  but we still have a ways to go.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-02-04 01:33 PM

10-year yields finished the week at 3.65%.  That’s up 32 bps (or a 1/3 of one percent) since last Friday’s close.

smile

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-02-04 02:14 PM

Cancel the Super Bowl

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2011-02-04 02:20 PM

Between Shawn Green dropping the price of his house to a paltry $10M and the 10 year tbill at an apocalyptic 3.6%, we should cancel the Super Bowl.  Lee needs to celebrate all of this earth shattering news devastating Irvine.

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-02-04 02:29 PM

What’s next, are Lee and Dave planning to boycott the Irvine Spectrum?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2011-02-04 03:00 PM

Yes, i am boycotting.  No more weekend getaways to irvine spectrum for me.

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-02-04 03:04 PM

If rates increase 250-300 bps this year, it will hurt affordability significantly.

Think about that.

smile

Astute Observation by lee in irvine
2011-02-04 03:30 PM

250 to 300 bps is actually quite tame considering the fact that the Fed presently has pegged the discount rate at “0” percent (WTF), and we’re now well into QE2 (WTF).  I personally think we could be looking at perpetual QE ... it just kinda becomes part of the American economy.  Print as much as you need to keep assets from falling.

Just think everyone, we’re gonna see a reduction as a percentage of our HH budget going to shelter (mortgage & rent), but most, if not all of that reduction is gonna be absorbed by additional cost, not yet realized because morons are in charge of monetary and fiscal policy.  Morons don’t want us to save, they want us to consume, and anything left over, they want to tax-tax-tax!

I hope everyone understands that The Feds and the US govt is setting this country up for another financial crisis.

Astute Observation by Alan
2011-02-04 04:05 PM

Excuse me, but you’re shocked to discover that the US is a consumer culture? The economy, not to mention political system, is based on perpetual growth. With accelerating growth being the Holy Grail. Just try imagining a city planning to maintain its current size, much less to shrink. It just doesn’t compute.

Astute Observation by Chuck
2011-02-04 10:21 AM

Just two quibbles with their methodology for calculating the miserability index. 

First, commuting on public transport is much less annoying than having to drive - I get to read for 30-40 minutes each way, I catch the train 1.5 blocks from my house and it drops me off at the back door of the office building where I work.  Compare that with even a 15 minute commute, where I have to pay to park and at best get to listen to NPR or books on tape… They ought to have factored in percentage of people on public transportation, and at least discounted transit time on public transportation 50%. 

Second, they measure corruption in terms of convictions.  But when people are getting convicted of corruption, that says that there’s someone out there fighting it.  The bigger problem is when (a) the prosecutors are coopted and are not bringing charges, (b) the corrupt officials are too good to get caught, or (c) the corruption is lawful (for instance, campaign donations) even when it’s immoral and destructive.

Astute Observation by Pwned
2011-02-04 11:08 AM

The problem with these misery indexes and google maps showing cities with the most foreclosures is that - let’s face it - why would anyone who wasn’t raised in these places ever want to move there?? I had family in Stockton and can tell you it was miserable 20 years ago. Ditto Bakersfield, Flint, Modesto, Toledo and the list goes on… I’m sure you can live a good life in any of those places but I doubt anyone who reads this blog would opt to live in them.

Astute Observation by Woordbury Renter?
2011-02-04 01:31 PM

Now that hundreds of new residents are moving into Woodbury I have come to the conclusion that the real estate bubbles in China and Korea are much more important to housing in this community than anything happening domestically.  I was at the Woodbury Town Center Ralph’s yesterday and there were too large Korean families who must have just landed…no English or familiarity with how to pay using the POS system (they probably are used to something much more sophisticated in Korea, like paying directly from their mobile phone).  It was interesting seeing the cashier trying to communicate with them, it eventually took a committee including the front end manager to get it done.  Oh and the entire purchase was a pile of 50 novelty candles…maybe the electricity was not yet turned on in their new home?

Astute Observation by tenmagnet
2011-02-04 02:00 PM

Excellent example,
Many here will try to discount and discredit the powerful role that FCBs play in certain Irvine markets.
As if an up tick in interest rates will drive these buyers away.

Astute Observation by bigmoneysalsa
2011-02-04 02:53 PM

Wow, I guess it’s just an amazing coincidence that these rich foreigners managed to set off a bubble in Irvine whose timing has coincided almost exactly with the housing bubble in the rest of the US.

You should ignore the fact that the Irvine market turned at just about the exact same time as the rest of the US back in 2006. You should ignore the fact that prices increases during the bubble in Irvine were very similar to the rest of Southern California, and that the subsequent declines since 2006 have been very similar to those of other premium communities in Southern California. You should ignore the fact that demand for Irvine homes from banks, who wish to hold them for accounting purposes, is a couple orders of magnitude greater than demand from FCBs. Instead, you should base your conclusions on the fact that when you go out walking around your neighboorhood you see a lot of Asian people. Brilliant.

Astute Observation by CapitalismWorks
2011-02-04 09:29 PM

The dollar has declined sharply over the past several years against em currencies. FCBs have far greater purchasing power at thanks to currency appreciation and robust growth in many em countries.

FCBs are no myth.

Astute Observation by bigmoneysalsa
2011-02-07 10:49 AM

Yes, FCBs exist and have money. So? How does that negate my argument that they play a relatively small role in pricing compared to non-local factors. You’ve said nothing.

Astute Observation by woodbury renter?
2011-02-06 11:29 PM

You are ignoring how many homes TIC has sold in Woodbury in the last 12 months.  A perfect example of how a community with a heavy concentration of FCB’s can buck the trend all around it.

Look, I’m not trying to pump Woodbury prices, far from it.  In fact I’m actively looking to buy elsewhere.

Astute Observation by bigmoneysalsa
2011-02-07 10:54 AM

No I’m not. What I’m trying to say is the mere existence of FCBs in an area doesn’t mean that they are driving the pricing trends in that area. In some cases there are other, better explainations.

Astute Observation by Woordbury Renter?
2011-02-04 01:38 PM

Also just (finally) finished The Big Short by Michael Lewis - a great view into the mortgage market and the first understandable explanation of synthetic CDO’s and how unbelievably toxic they were.  Good narrative and thankfully devoid of the class warfare that pollutes much of the writing on the subject.  Especially good recounting of the role the ratings agency played in the absurd financial alchemy that made the whole market possible.  Also an oblique reference to our very own IR when describing “California Housing Bloggers” who were pointing out the home price craziness on a daily basis.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2011-02-04 04:34 PM

“The housing bubble is the direct cause of the suffering.”

WRONG!

The direct cause of all the suffering in the housing market is radical Islam! There was no housing bubble!! We were very prosperous and then all of a sudden all Hell broke loose!!!

What changed?

The Muslim Brotherhood’s establishment of a shadow Caliphate within the financial services industry! After they infiltrated the banking sector they cut off loans to all the “infidels”!!

People assume that their banker doesn’t eat pork because they are Jewish, but did you know that Muslims can’t eat pork either!

Now you see… Now you know…

Impeach Obama.

Astute Observation by Tony
2011-02-05 02:34 AM

Wow. How come I never thought of that? But wait a second. Muslims don’t believe in collecting interest on money because it’s considered a form of USURY.

Astute Observation by Kirk
2011-02-05 10:31 AM

Thank you for pointing out the real reason for the Federal Reserve’s Zero Interest Rate Policy.

I’m quite sure that many readers didn’t see the connection. I’m glad there is at least one person paying attention.

Astute Observation by lefty driesel
2011-02-05 12:59 AM

$431,000 back in the day in Stockton

now that’s rich

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