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Today we are gradually returning to a free market
I don’t see any evidence that supports this conclusion. There is some chirping about putting these bloodsuckers out of business at some point in the future but I see nothing that suggests that the Government has any intention of extricating itself from housing.
The camel is not just going to leave the tent. There is way too much money to be made by those who carry the most political influence. Too Big To Fail is still official Government policy - that is all you need to know in order to realize that a free market in housing is a pipe dream in this life.
No, what we are going to see is a “transition” to some new scheme that the bankers come up with to “help” people get taxpayer guaranteed lines of credit. Likely, it is going to have a free-market sleight-of-hand to it but we all know whatever they come up with will carry another “implicit” guarantee from the Federal Government only the next time “things will be different”.
I hope you are wrong.
You are likely correct.
There never was a free market in America and there never will be a free market. The goal has always been the same in America’s version of capitalism: Inflation disguised as growth with an economic roller coaster that impacts the upper and lower half differently. The game continues to work exceptionally well as our greatest problems are things like: too many large empty houses, to many calories in our diets, too expensive to live in premium areas with the best schools. We must find a way to overcome these exceptional tragedies.
Nice list of problems, PR. Don’t forget things like:
1 in 7 on Food Stamps
Unemployment Rises 9% Despite Job Growth
Stagnant Wages
Wealth Inequality
But none of that matters because we have plenty of food. All problems cease to exist on Planet Realtor when society has an abundance of food. Don’t start complaining to PR until the food rioting begins.
I think you are missing the point. The REALITY is, there will be no riots or major change unless the FOOD is cut off. Take a good long look around your country….I’m assuming you have David by your posts. The scene is one of imbalance caused by plutocracy. The people eat up all the B.S. from either party, while voting against their own best interests (socialized medicine, making corporate giants pay their fair share of taxes, protesting wars for the few individuals to get rich, etc etc).
PR is right, whatever the machine is doing is working, but it’s not working as well as it once did, so wars and evil men are created to keep the focus off the hamster wheel of slavery.
The big boys pulled the wool over americans eyes, transferred all the hate and blame to the “homeowners”, and left with a boatload of cash. Now, nothing has changed, and the crooks will be back to pump another bubble, cash out, then run. I see the healthcare industry next.
Either you’ve accidentally contradicted yourself or you’re an idiot. I’m going to go with both. You’re right that the economic roller coaster impacts the upper and lower half differently; your list of our greatest problems couldn’t be stupider. Have you ever stepped outside of Irvine? Are you aware that upwards of 10% of the nation’s residents are unemployed, and a much larger number are underemployed with either no or insufficient health insurance?
Get your head out of the Irvine desert sand (or your ass, which is the more likely location).
“you’re an idiot”
Careful. We don’t call names here.
Yeah, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Or squawking up the wrong tree. Though, since only birds really squawk, and they are usually in trees, rather than at the bases of them, then you’re squawking down the wrong tree.
Cuz that tree lives in AZ. And is a cactus. And appears to be cognizant and/or have directly addressed the problems which apparently are weighing down your soul with sorrow. Also the tree-squawk in general was a sudden, massive, unnecessary (as this response is) extension of an already tangential tangent. Chillax mon ami.
Your mixed up posts, Frak. You’re an idiot.
Be nice!
Ok.
Total mortgage equity withdrawal is $297,660. Not bad for a $400 investment
ROI = over 700x with no liability, but they might not be off the hook for the seconds.
Without skin in the game from the loan originators, packagers and personal liability, the game will be renamed, repackaged, respun and started again once the dust settles. Now it FHA loans at 3.5% down with govt holding all the liability or should I say taxpayers. The banks are still getting their origination fee, servicing fee, and foreclourse fee from the transactions. Not bad with no skin in the game.
Lower house price will hurt in the short run, but will be healthy for Main Street.
Any comments about the latest Zillion report on 128 out of 130 housing markets having steep Y2Y declines?
Agreed. FHA is a great example. Not hearing a whole lot of people calling to FHA to be dismantled. It seems almost certain that they will be picking up a significant amount of slack in the future. In other words, FHA might as well be renamed to the ‘Ministry of First Time House Buyers’.
Look at what they are doing - allowing people to buy houses with 3.5% (nothing) down. How long until 3.5% is too burdensome for the common man? Is the plan to gradualy work our way toward 0% over a couple decades? Why is 3.5% so magical? Why not 3%? Or 2.5%? Certainly it shall be presented at some point that 3% or 2.5% are no more risky than 3.5%.
In the future - want to buy a house? Nah, don’t save a dime. Just head on down to the Ministry of First Time House Buyers (MFTHB) with your hat-in-hand and be sure to bring a DNA sample and fingerprint card.
With the prior tax credits, some people even got money out of the deal!
There was talk about lowering the FHA down requirement. Usually it’s talk, opposition, talk, talk and passing the law or regulation in the dead of night.
...“things will be different.” Sounds like the battered wife or husband montra.
Yes, totally; people using the 8K tax credit AS their down payment because they could not scrounge up a penny.
I am actually surprised that the 8K tax credit has not been extended again. I figured it was going to become one of those new perma entitlements alongside the mortgage interest deduction. Probably because the number of existing house debtors would then demand to be grandfathered in and demand their own piece of the cheese.
Maybe something similar will show up again when the Ministry of First Time House Buyers is implemented.
I’m fearful of the default rates on the tsunami of FHA loans made since 2007, but at least those loans had real PMI backstops unlike the zero-down, liar loans. Recall too that people have to pay some PMI upfront when doing an FHA loan. So from the taxpayers’ POV, there is at least some upfront cost recovery.
Most of these loans will hold up (unless job losses worsen which is a possibility), since many of these FHA borrowers were the more responsible types. But clearly the risk has moved from irresponsible private lenders to slightly more responsible GSE/taxpayer programs.
At least the size of that risk has been reduced (the price declines mean that many of the loans are at lower levels than the outrageous 05-07 days) including the absence of any housing ATM outrages.
Really, the pols and the Fed/Treasury had no choice but to go this route. If you were in there shoes, you would have done much the same. Mass economic calamity serves no one. Which is why a guy like Bill McBride at CR, whose anger is evident, takes such a moderate tone. The time to fix this problem was to avoid it altogether. Humpty-Dumpty can’t be put back together again and all we can do is try and make an egg-shell littered omelette out of what remains so it does not go completely to waste.
“Really, the pols and the Fed/Treasury had no choice but to go this route. If you were in there shoes, you would have done much the same.”
A sad truth.
The only problem with a more moderate tone is that people forget how outrageous the behavior was, and if enough times goes by, it will be repeated, and nobody will raise a fuss. Only an uncomfortable reminder of just how wrong lenders were can work to create change.
I don’t buy the argument that mass economic calamity was averted by keeping the TBTF banks in business.
I am with AZD on this one. Giving a fix to an addict averts nothing, only prolongs the agony, and adds difficulty and pain to the cure.
“Total mortgage equity withdrawal is $297,660. Not bad for a $400 investment
ROI = over 700x with no liability, but they might not be off the hook for the seconds.”
Actually, I’m still hopeful that isn’t true. The refi’s are recourse, and I still hope that the banks are selling them to debt collectors.
The only way that this whole tragedy doesn’t repeat itself in the next 10 years is if there is a whole class of people who are harassed for their lifetimes to make good on their bad debts. Then the lesson will endure in society for 50 years, maybe…
Is there even a lesson in any of this?
Ask an F’d House Debtor and they are mad the bank.
Ask the bank and they are mad at the F’d house debtor.
Ask a renter and they are mad at everybody including the Government.
Ask the Government and they have no comment.
Ask the Fed and they say there are no problems.
Moral Hazard is a hell of a drug.
I ain’t mad at anybody and just what to figure how to make money off other’s foolishness.
Which probably is the lesson in all of this. Be ready to buy up as much property as you can get your hands on when the Government blows the next bubble and sell quick.
It’s good to see you made some progress. Now here is the real trick to it, when you and everyone else starts screaming bubble wait 2 more years and sell closer to the peak.
Give me 100% financing with cash back and I’m game.
There were 2 segments about real estate in the local Bay Area news.
1) Interview with a female realtor. When asked about declining home prices, she blamed “fickle buyers.”
2) Another segment on rentals said San Jose and SF are red-hot again like 2000, and rent now before you’re priced out forever.