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I think people did nominal improvements to flips during the bubble so that they’d feel better about their gamble. If they thought the price increase was from their effort, then they could ignore the bubble.
This guy, however, represents the worst of the bubble. Know-nothing (by his own admission) speculators. I mentioned my in-laws 20% street foreclosure rate. Half those foreclosures were property speculators. One was an early purchase by a couple that heloc’d and multiplied their property holdings, and the other was an investor that bought at the bubble, and then RENTED the home to the prior owner (obviously at a cost below the carrying cost of the home, but price appreciation cures everything).
If we’re going to require 20% down for owner-occupied homes, we should require at least 40% down for non owner-occupied homes. And if you’re found lying about it, you enter default and the note becomes payable in full. Tack on the fees and strip a good chunk of equity.
I don’t like the actions of speculators. Especially th eones that lived large and went as ponzi with as little total equity as possible. The ‘hoods that saw the most ponzi were the new construction coming online in 2006/7. That was where the speculators were pushing each other out of the way. Whatever I think of speculators, it was the banks that enabled them, and who deserves the most blame, and whose rules should be changed to prevent this from happening again.
If I were him, I could still flip the house by selling it at $30k and get the hell outta Dodge.
And he probably will. His best course of action is to take the money and run.
70K, a drop in the bucket for the taxpayer.
Hmmm, the story raises suspicions of hardball tactics and underscores the power in personal anonymity when banks displace families from their homes. Loss of residence is a serious situation over which some would resort to credible violence as a negotiating tactic.
Is it implausible the defaulted owner may have gotten to someone at the bank and made them an offer they can’t refuse?
Theoretically any employee in the chain of the processing the default could be compromised to make an “administrative error,” especially if they could be bribed, blackmailed over sex, drugs, excessive debts, broken thumbs, the usual stuff.
Have I been watching too many movies? Or is this why the DoD investigates contractors and employees for all this kind of potential compromise?
That’s an interesting possibility I didn’t consider. With as strange as this case is, anything is possible.
Patrick.net has links today to dire headlines; increased suicides, landlord/kidnapper collecting rent at gunpoint, clamor for prosecutions in banking’s upper echelon.
It’s logical that more financially motivated homicides would be in the news along with the reported increase in financially motivated suicides—unless news is just another manipulation to suppress popular activism
In NY Times podcast today one headline is that Bernanke colluded with the Fed to slow down criminal prosecutions for the sake of not undermining economic stabilization in the US.
“... someone’s sneakin’
‘round the cor-ner,
could that some-one,
be Mack the Knife?”
you may have unwittingly exposed a new tactic, ‘cash for keys’ no more, it’s ‘sex for keyholes’
On the flip side…the county I grew up in does its foreclosure auctions online. One sale I saw today was for $12k to a third party bidder on a home that would easily sell for $300k. The owner’s address is listed as out of state, and the only mortgage outstanding was a heloc for $60k. Foreclosure judgment was for $11.5k.
What are the odds that the third party is not the out-of-state owners? How would the home not have been bid up higher? There is a HOA lien, but that is maybe $5k. I couldn’t pay cash for a $300k home, but could easily write a check for $20k, and I imagine there are plenty more people who could do the same. Is there a catch?
If a HOA forecloses and there is outstanding mortgage debt, what happens to the mortgage debt? Would the mortgage holder want to buy the home at auction?
It was likely the $12K sale was a second mortgage. There is probably a $250,000 first mortgage on the property, and the $12K was taking the property subject to the first mortgage. If there is any equity above the first mortgage, it’s another way to play the auction market.
HOA liens vary by state. In California, HOA liens are wiped out in a foreclosure. In Nevada, HOA liens survive, and collection companies rape auction buyers for several times the outstanding debt.
Shoddy search missed the first of $624k. If the second forecloses, and the auction shows a sale of $12k, where does the first sit?
Can HOAs foreclose on their liens? What happens if they’re the ones bringing the foreclosure?
When a second forecloses, the highest bidder at auction takes title to the property. Subordinate liens—any 3rd or 4th mortgage and certain other claims—are wiped from the property. However, the first lien holder remains, so the new owner is subject to the claims of the first lien holder.
If I follow your example above, the first lien holder has a debt claim far in excess of the property’s value. The new owner paid $12K to be hopelessly underwater. The good news is they have no obligation to pay the first. The bad news is when the first does foreclose, the $12K is gone along with any claim to the property.
The second lien holder may be purchasing the property as a rental. If they can hold it long enough, they could get their $12K back plus profit. It’s a gamble based on how long they think the first lien holder will let them get away with it.
HOA’s can and do foreclose on liens. Their lien priority varies by state, so some states HOAs are aggressive, and it others, like California, they are not.
If an HOA forces an auction, they will get paid out of the proceeds based on their lien priority. If HOAs are subordinate to a big first, they usually won’t bother because they will never collect on an underwater property.
Thanks. I figured there was not a whole lot of easy money being left in SoFla foreclosures.
LawyerLiz said that she too had NTS cancelled in a David Stern case, so I suspect that the large servicers are evaluating Stern’s foreclosure mill product and making a financial judgement about whether it is worth it to invest in the legal services to correct the foreclosures legally.
Also, remember that the mold issue in FL is a big problem. That house will have to be gutted to the studs, the studs remediated, and then rebuilt.
How much will the servicers invest in a property that may sell for $75k?
I see their walking away as a reasonable business decision.
Am I missing something here? It’s obvious why they gave him the house free and clear, the entire structure, walls, floor, ceilings, was infested with mold, and unsellable and unrentable as an asset (at least legally). A house on that same street sold for $30,000 and didn’t have mold all over the house.
The cost of a complete mold remediation for the entire house, and the cost of repairing the house to a livable condition after the remediation would probably cost twice the recent comp of $30,000.
Sure he gets a free house, but unless he can get it to pass inspection, how will he sell/flip it for profit? I say this house eventually gets abandoned and torn down.
If this house truly has no economic value, then you are probably right. Many houses in the Detroit area are worth less than zero because they are uninhabitable, and the cost to bring them up to standard exceeds their value.
Acting out of my conviction that battered Midwestern burgs will see stunning revivals in the next couple of decades, I toyed with the idea of buying some $10 Detroit houses, mostly beautiful brick shells that have suffered fires and abandonment, that could be gutted and made into lovely, solid small homes. I reasoned that if we could restore an entire discrete neighborhood of, say, a couple hundred homes, and zone for small “neighborhood”-type retail, like grocery stores and dry cleaners and small retail spaces to be rented cheaply, the neighborhood could “weigh” enough to be a successful, safe enclave where moderate income buyers could find attractive houses at prices about equal to the price of a new car.
I was working on pulling a bunch of investors together, but while working up the business plan, discovered that the liability insurance for an abandoned house, especially in a city with Detroit’s crime profile, is astronomical, especially if it’s an entire neighborhood of abandoned houses. The whole thing fell apart on this one little detail- there was no way we could justify the insurance costs of sitting on these vacant properties, even if we got them as gifts, and paying the costs of owning them such as liability coverage and property taxes.
The cheaper the property, the more hidden costs there may be, and gut rehabs and mold remediation may be the least of them.
thanks for this writeup, learned alot!
Thanks for the idea and info, Laura. We speculate a lot in my house about how to revive/rescue Detroit, and hadn’t gotten as far as liability insurance. But even if you could get together a band of people living in a revived suburb, where would they work? I think that’s the problem with Detroit these days. The people who have jobs there already have their pick of newer houses that don’t have to be rehabbed, and there’s nothing to draw new population/professionals there. Unless you know of something, of course!
I happen to be from Detroit, and one of the angles is to buy up entire neighborhoods and bulldoze them for parking in the bridge ramp areas or remaining industrial areas.
The value really is in the land.
Nope, you aren’t missing anything. The house was worth less than zero dollars, so the bank was happy to get rid of it. Nothing more complicated than that.
That 1st picture of the moldy walls has me rethinking going to lunch.
Yuck.
“We get a little riff raff, a few prostitutes will walk down the street, but when they see us watching, they scatter.”
My, that does sound like a “good neighborhood”!
“If this house truly has no economic value, then you are probably right…”
I beleive that this neighborhood may have achieved a durable floor
“Hugh Patio” !!
AZDavid we need you!
SB
“A few commenters thought the North Las Vegas neighborhood from a recent post was suspect. Wait until you read this description.”
on that… the SW seems to be turning into a major focal point for LV urban designers. the recent widening of blue diamond along with the construction going on the 15 are suggest that this is slated to manifest into the next summerlin. lots up for grabs in mountains edge.
As for homeboy, I’m sure there’s something here we’re missing, like during the BPO they found that the entire house was infested with black mold, or some shit.
-dig your blog
Irvine Renter
I recommend you have a “Price is Right” contest on a future post for a WTF priced property. Allow people to “bid” what they feel will be the actual selling price of the home.
So for example, let’s take a look at 47 Midnight sky in Woodbury. For a mere 854,750, you can get a 3 br /2.5 ba tract home (with no granite in the kitchen) at $439 a square foot!
I will start the bidding, I think this house will eventually sell for $649,900
If I were to buy this house near its asking price, I would be paying $2500 more a month, to have 500 less square feet of home, 1200 less square feet of lot, and less amenities than the current home I am renting.
That would be a fun contest/poll. I agree with your estimate too. The house specs would be around 500-550k, and then add the schools/parks/low crime/jobs aspect of Irvine to be “worth” another 100k (just my personal opinion), so 600-650k for me.