Everyone wants to live in California, right? Well, we do have the best climate in the Country if not the World, so we do have something rare and valuable here. Does it create value?
Asking Price: $1,399,000
Address: 104 Capeberry Irvine, CA 92603
Rollin’ down Imperial Highway
With a big nasty redhead at my side
Santa Ana winds blowin’ hot from the north
And we was born to ride
Roll down the window, put down the top
Crank up the Beach Boys, baby
Don’t let the music stop
We’re gonna ride it ’til we just can’t ride it no more
From the South Bay to the Valley
From the West Side to the East Side
Everybody’s very happy
‘Cause the sun is shining all the time
Looks like another perfect day
I love L.A. (We love it)
I love L.A. (We love it)
We love it
I Love L.A. — Randy Newman
I drive a convertible; I rarely put the top up. When my family makes weekend plans, we don’t worry about the weather. The climate in Coastal California is nearly perfect, and I enjoy it every day.
Weeks ago I wrote Rental Parity and Beyond to describe the value created beyond rental cashflow. The narrow coastal band of properties in California have a unique and very high quality climate.
Cold
I grew up in Central Wisconsin. Like much of the country, there are four distinct seasons there, but in Wisconsin, the winters are particularly brutal. I remember one full week in February of 1985, the high temperature never got above zero degrees. Each day, the high would be -8 to -2, and the lows would drop down well below -20. One morning, it was -38 when I went outside to start my car. That is cold.
It is difficult to describe just how cold thirty-eight degrees below zero really is. Everyone knows how warm 80 degrees feels, and most know how much colder 40 degrees feels. That same change in feeling accompanies the drop from 40 degrees to zero degrees, and it happens again when dropping from zero to minus 40. Zero degrees is a very chilling cold. Any exposed skin is immediately “bitten” by Jack Frost. Forty degrees below zero is beyond cold. Exposed skin feels like it is on fire at those temperatures as the cold “freezer burns” your skin. Prolonged exposure results in a bone-chilling cold where the surface layers go numb and the chill penetrates deeply into your body.
There is no escaping cold weather. There is no time of day when you can go outside and be comfortable. You have to bundle up with layers of clothing, heavy coats and boots, and you rush from one artificially heated environment to another. Whenever you are exposed to the cold, you hate it — and you can’t help being exposed.
It is never cold in Irvine.
Hot
I lived in Las Vegas for a while, and I have spent much time in hot, arid climates. Someone described Las Vegas to me as “living in a hair dryer.” The deserts in inland California are much the same. There is good weather in these areas for 8 months of the year, but the summers are very hot and nearly unbearable. Extreme heat is very draining, and exposure can result in heat stroke and dehydration. I prefer heat to cold because when it is really hot, at least you can go outside in the mornings or evenings and the temperature is bearable.
It is never hot in Irvine.
Humid
I lived in Florida for 7 years, and I lived in humid areas of Arkansas and Texas for much longer. Humidity sucks. The moment you step outside, you begin to sweat. It is uncomfortable, particularly when it is also very hot. One thing that always bothered me about living in a humid climate is that you can never open the doors and windows of your house and let the air circulate; your house is hermetically sealed — like a coffin. (We aired out our place last weekend. Most of the day there was a dry 74-degree breeze blowing through.)
It is never humid in Irvine.
Wet
We get very little rain in Southern California, so we rarely have to change our plans due to the weather. When I lived in other areas, I always had to make back-up plans in case the weather changed. I spent far too many weekends watching rented movies as the cold and the rain ruined my plans for fun. Also, the lack of rain means fewer molds, pollens, mosquitoes, and other problems and pests of excessive rainfall.
I have always thought Eugene, Oregon, looked like a nice place. I caught part of a football game played there recently. It was cold and overcast, and there was a light mist. The announcers of the game said it had rained for 18 consecutive days there. WetTF! So much for Eugene, Oregon.
It rarely rains in Irvine.
Storms
I have lived in areas where tornadoes, hurricanes, intense thunderstorms and dramatic changes in temperature were common. I can remember one afternoon in Texas when a cold front came through and reduced the outdoor temperature by about 40 degrees in a few hours. I have evacuated to avoid hurricanes, hid in the basement to escape tornadoes, and experienced thunderstorms so intense that water seemed to fall in sheets from the sky.
We don’t get big storms in Irvine.
California Perfect
Coastal California has a narrow band of temperature variation with highs ranging from the 60s in the winter to the 70s in the summer. The closer you are to the ocean, the narrower this band of temperatures becomes. We have low humidity and little rainfall, and the closest we come to a storm is the Santa Ana winds that occasionally blow hot air out of the deserts.
The daily weather experience is fantastic. The mornings here are beautiful as we generally get a cozy blanket of clouds that keeps the morning cool. It isn’t a depressing overcast (except for May Gray and June Gloom) because we all know the clouds will burn off by late morning, and we will be bathed in sunlight the rest of the day. If you live close enough to the water, there is a sea breeze that takes the edge off a sunny summer day. The evenings are generally cool and crisp often requiring warmer clothing. I don’t own a heavy winter coat or boots anymore.
The best thing about living in a perfect climate is getting out to enjoy it. We have year-round outdoor activities with little worries about seasonality or bad weather days. I can’t remember the last time we had to change the family’s plans due to the weather.
You do get very sensitive to small changes in temperature when you live in a perfect climate; eighty degrees is hellish hot, and sixty degrees is an Arctic blast. It is the Goldilocks climate.
As I mentioned in the opening, I own a convertible, and I rarely put the top up. There are times I will run the heater in the morning or the AC in the afternoon to take the edge off, but I still greet the morning air in January or the afternoon air in August with the top down and the wind in my hair. I couldn’t do that living anywhere else.
Add Value?
Does this great climate add value to Coastal California real estate? Indirectly, it certainly does. Many wealthy and powerful people make our area their home because of the weather, and they build companies and stimulate the economy by their presence. This raises everyone’s standard of living through higher wages, higher rents, and higher home prices.
Are home prices higher because “everyone wants to live here?” No, but believing that is true makes people feel good and perhaps feel a bit superior. Many people really would like to enjoy our climate, but without a good job, the cost of living is so high that being here wouldn’t be very fun or desirable.
The climate is one of the main reasons I live here, and I am not alone. I knowingly sacrifice my standard of living to be here (there are plenty of McMansions I could afford elsewhere). Perhaps the effect of people like me adds some value to real estate, but the phenomenon would be very difficult to measure.
Added value or not, I plan to stay here and enjoy this climate as long as I can.
We have perfect weather in Irvine.
Asking Price: $1,399,000
Income Requirement: $349,750
Downpayment Needed: $279,800
Purchase Price: $976,500
Purchase Date: 12/15/2004
Address: 104 Capeberry Irvine, CA 92603
| Beds: | 4 |
| Baths: | 5 |
| Sq. Ft.: | 3,050 |
| $/Sq. Ft.: | $459 |
| Lot Size: | 6,680
Sq. Ft. |
| Property Type: | Single Family Residence |
| Style: | Tuscan |
| Stories: | 2 |
| View: | Hills |
| Year Built: | 2004 |
| Community: | Quail Hill |
| County: | Orange |
| MLS#: | S584010 |
| Source: | SoCalMLS |
| Status: | Active |
| On Redfin: | 6 days |
Beautiful Tuscan style home in desirable Chantilly. Located near the
end of a quiet cul-de-sac street, this home features a bright, open
floor plan w/high ceilings, designer paint colors, rich crown moulding,
gorgeous porcelain tile downstairs & patterned nylon carpeting up.
Custom drapery & window treatments give a very elegant look.
Gourmet kitchen has lrg center island w/veggie sink, 6 burner gas range
w/hood, upgraded SS appliances, dark wood cabinetry & granite
countertops. Spacious great room has built-in ent center, speaker
system & elevated stone fireplace. Large formal dining room &
attached 2 room+bath guest suite w/int & ext french doors. Outer
room (office) can also be an opt 5th bedroom. Gorgeous wrought iron
stair rails lead upstairs to master suite & 2 spacious secondary
bedrooms w/upgraded private baths. Master bath has marble tile counters
& surrounds, separate shower, jetted tub, & walk-in closet.
Spectacular park-like back yard features elevated
Everything is gorgeous…
These WTF listing prices are evidence that the housing bubble has not played itself out yet. As long as there are homeowners who really believe their properties have appreciated 40% since late 2004, we are not at a bottom. A spring rally brings out the clueless dreamers.
At least they get to enjoy the great weather….
Of course, this house is much more valuable than in would be in Wisconsin or St. Louis. But when the asking price is 40% more than the purchase price, and $300k over the recent comps in the same neighborhood (which is also in Irvine, of course), you have to ask what’s going on. What’s going on? Is this place about to be repossessed due to HELOC abuse? Or is the owner just clueless?
Oh, its hilarious how the overly wordy realtor spell out words like “cul-de-sac” while bragging about the home ent center. Can’t they just write a normal sentence?
IrvineRenter… been reading IHB all this time and didn’t realize you are a fellow Wisconsinite. I’m from Sheboygan… Plymouth… Milwaukee then Chicago then here… anyway, I get the “sunshine tax” that we pay to live here out of the snow but it skyrocketed while Wisconsin kept housing increases about inline with general cost of living though Chicago was certainly closer to West Coast than to Wis.
Sheboygan prices coming to SoCal? NOT. But a reasonable level of sunshine “upcharge” to live here hasn’t quite been reached.
Would love to see the bottom before it’s time to move back to the MidWest to take care of the parents but we’ll see…
What portion of people in SoCal live in that narrow band by the beach? It has gotten to be a lower portion over time, as population expansion was primarily inland. There, you get the temperature extremes. You don’t have to go far to get occasional freezes. Even Beverly Hills gets over 90 regularly, and to 100 once in a while.
Where the mountains are higher, that coastal band is very narrow. You get 4 miles away from the ocean in Malibu and you are already where it gets very hot in summer, and freezes in winter.
I’m real inland (Riverside), and it doesn’t freeze out here (except in very rare occasions, like for an hour between 4 AM and sunrise once a year or so). Now, in the other direction, it sure does gets hot during the summer. But it’s a dry heat!
It used to freeze at my house in Chino Hills all the time. Are you telling me Riverside is “special”?
FWIW, it really never freezes in Fallbrook or anywhere else you see somebody growing commercial avacados (Portola, Foothill Ranch). Avacados are not frost tolerant for any length of time.
I dunno. I just know that it’s not a problem here. I even checked Riverside’s Wikipedia page to look at the weather stats to confirm what I thought-average low for any one month never drops below 42. Maybe it’s a little more common than I thought (you will get ice on a car parked outside overnight sometimes, but the actual air temperture should be higher than that)-but it’s never freezing during any hour of the day when one is normally awake, and you don’t have to worry about pipes freezing or anything like that.
Ice on windshield = freeze, at least as far as your plants in your yard are concerned. FYI.
I live in Riverside also and last year I had frost damage to some trees. It does not happen every year, but often enough. I have also read in our citrus history articles and books about the risks. They used fans and smudge pots to try to protect the crops.
Irvine also had fans running in the orange groves some nights. I remember a December in 1978 or 79, that was so cold and I did not have refrigerator. I stored ice cream overnight outside so it would not melt.
Riverside sucks
The best of the coastal climate is certainly in a narrow area. The temperature gradient gets pretty steep in the summer as well. I have watched the thermometer in my car drop 10 degrees or more going down the canyon from Irvine to Laguna Beach. I have noticed there are differences driving across Irvine. Northwood is warmer than University Park.
Actually, TR is a lot cooler than City Hall… driving on Harvards from TR to the Marketplace I’ve seen the outside thermometer go up as much as 15 degrees.
And, of course, we get the marine layer. So, while my tomatoes do so so and my cucumbers love it, the folks on the East side of the 405 have great tomatoes and shriveled lettuce.
Yeah, Irvine has gotten so big the temperatures in the summer can vary widely.
Once you get north of the 5 (I call it the forbidden zone) you really start cooking.
When I used to take the 5 home to Westpark I would notice the temperature drop 5-10 degrees from the Marketplace area. I think the creek that runs from the back bay helps keep Westpark a little cooler than the cities north of the 5. And obviously, places like TR are much closer to the ocean so they stay relatively nice in the summmer as well.
This is one idea that dovetails with TIC’s control of supply. SoFL has heat humidity, rain and hurricanes, but the ocean is much warmer than SoCal and you can swim in it comfortably year round. Many people outweigh those benefits over the minuses relative to other parts of the country.
You can live in a small condo and still get the amenity of the weather. With the massive oversupply, especially in condos, in SoFL prices are hit especially hard. Plus for condos, foreclosed and empty units bring all sorts of other problems.
The desirability of a location will bring in jobs, those that don’t need to work, and those that can work from anywhere. If supply increases dramatically, you can see prices drop, especially when you exhaust the potential buyer pool. You won’t have new jobs coming, companies are less flexible with working from home, and the number of independently wealthy is shrinking.
An identical home somewhere like Chapel Hill, NC will be less expensive, but there’s a limit to that mark-up.
Yeah, and people get attacked by sharks in those waters also. Florida has the highest rate ofnshark attacks in the world. Not to mention hurricanes.
FL has more deaths from lightning strike than shark attacks – by 50-1. Also 2-1 more likely to be killed by a gator than shark.
Yepper, FL has about 2-3 shark attacks a year vs. 1 in CA, I’m terrified, LOL. Since 1882 there have been 13 fatal shark attacks in FL…
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/gattack/MapFL.htm
In SoCal we don’t have mosquitoes at night. True, the temps drop into the high 60s at night (dry weather can’t hold heat) but the flip side is that we don’t get eaten by bugs.
For example, we don’t have screen doors on the french doors leading to our atrium, even though we leave them open all day and into the night. You could not do that in a more humid environment.
Bad part? I need to buy a wood burning outdoor chimenea because it does get “cold” at nights.
I should have talked about the bugs in the places I lived. That is related to climate, right?
Wisconsin has mosquitoes. I worked on a rural golf course on the Wisconsin River in the marshy center of the state (Aldo Leopold’s Sand County). It was a wonderful environment on summer mornings except for the mosquitoes. Any exposed skin without bug spray was going to have 20 bites.
Arkansas has flies by the millions, noisy cicadas, large cockroaches and many poisonous spiders and snakes. If you go into tall grass, there are nearly invisible bugs that can bite and leave welts.
Florida has the largest cockroaches known to man. You can spray and keep their numbers down, but they are a mild nuisance.
The only insect pests we get here are those tiny ants. They don’t bite, and they don’t leave a mess, but it does freak you out a little when you find a line of 10,000 ants heading toward your pantry.
The humidity is the one thing I can live without. We were sweating all the time there. And yes, the humidity brought giant bugs…snakes, flying cockroaches, mosquitos (Texas-sized), ants, you name it.
Hey, but you could get a decent house for $100k!
Sorry, should of said in Houston.
Do fires ever hit the OC? Earthquakes? Not nearly as regular or as destructive as something like Andrew or Katrina, butthe guys at State Farm would account for it.
Of course there’s both, although neither are “weather” as such. Major earthquakes are really rare (the last significant one in SoCal happened in 1994; prior to that, 1971; prior to that, 1872). Wildfires are mainly only a problem if you live in the mountains or desert, as opposed to a tightly packed subdivision (although if your tightly packed subdivision is directly next to open space, there is a possibility of a problem).
I remember the 1993 Laguna Beach fire. Many homes were burned to the ground. There was a chance of it spreading to an area of Turtle Rock at the time. We had a lot of ashes on our patio in Woodbridge and the air was awful.
I remember that night.
We got evacuated. The wife took off in a car with the baby, picture books, paperwork, half the liquor cabinet and the dogs.
I stayed behind with some of the “men folk” with hoses, a portable TV, some patio chairs and some mighty good scotch bottles we all brought out from our stashes.
Hosed the roof a few times, watched the back fire over what today is TRidge, watched TV, drank scotch on the rocks.
Amazing how I could climb the ladder to the roof, with a hose on left hand, full 12 oz tumbler on right hand, hose the roof and not spill any of the good stuff.
Climbing with no hands. Duh!
The next morning we were covered with white ash. I wasn’t quite sure at first if it was real or just some created by the bongos beating behind my eyeballs. 😛
LOL!
Good stuff Tony!
I was thinking the same thing. I remember back in ’95 or so that the evening news had a new image of Californian Apocalypse: floods, mud slides, earth quakes, fires. Maybe it was just the news cycle focusing in on one small set of stories and amplifying them to the viewers’ delight. As we approached the millennium, each new California quake was compared against Nostradamus’s predictions.
I remember thinking: who would ever be foolish enough to live in California?
There was a study about natural disasters and I think CA was listed as one of the safest places in the country to live.
Makes sense…people out of state really fear earthquakes I’ve discovered. The reality is…extreme heat/cold, flooding, and other “mundane” natural disasters kill more people.
Is anyone else looking at this place and just seeing Boring! They’ve neutralized everything, it’s just pale carpet and pale walls + dark fake wood furniture, and repetition of the same draping “curtains” that are just bad window dressing. It looks like a Haverty’s commercial.
(I don’t know if you have Haverty’s, but pick your least favorite overstuffed overpriced furniture store that sells veneered junk and passes it off as heirloom furniture.)
It’s so neutral that I don’t even get a sense of architecture, does it have any architecture? At a million dollars purchase price, I would want some architecture.
I wouldn’t want architecture…for a million bucks, I expect everything new/modern. If you want old and ugly, try the east coast, there’s a lot of old looking stuff out here.
There’s such a thing as modern architecture too you know. There’s nothing new or modern about the Haverty’s look they have going on here. I actually like the look of the outside, I just see no sign of it on the interior.
I agree Cara. And where is the pool?
“It rarely rains in Irvine.” Where does the water for SoCal come from? To whom do you owe a debt of gratitude when you flush?
There is an ocean, which has an unlimited supply of water.
Of course, pumping water from the Colorado river and the mountains is, for the most part, cheaper than building desalination plants, but there is not a shortage of water in SoCal. At worst, there is a shortage of CHEAP water in SoCal.
Northern California, and of course the massive grey water system IRWD has in place. Whoever had the foresight to build that was a GENIUS.
Great topic.
I’ve lived in L.A. , NYC, Seattle, Sacramento, San Luis Obispo. Missouri, Northern ID, Massachusettes and am now purposely visiting SE Florida during the “off season” to see if it would be a nice place to live.
Sure…the weather in Coastal So Cal is nice…but I can’t see it being worth the premium people place on it.
Is it worth more? Sure…not that much more however.
Then again…I don’t own a convertible.
Thanks, but no thanks. I lived in So Cal (El Toro, Covina, and Santa Ana) for 25 years and will never go back, perfect weather or no. There are too many people, traffic, smog, and all that that entails.
I love my farm in Indiana with its 26 acres, thousands of trees, abundant wildlife, four lovely seasons and TONS of fresh, clean water and air.
I have also lived in Atlanta GA, Houston TX, Virginia Beach VA, Sandy UT, Villa Hills KY, and northern California as well as several foreign countries (now those I might move to if given a chance.)
I grew up on a farm in Central California. Hell, I LIVED on it till I was 20, and stayed for another 10 years or so. It might be home but I miss farm living like a hole in the head.
Nice. My wife’s from Central Cal, so I get to visit at least a couple times per year. I still find it amazing that natives don’t understand that the air there smells different – especially in the morning. Gotta love dairy farms!
South Orange County, to me defined as everything south and west of John Wayne has the best lifestyle in the world but an average to below average job market, at least as defined my BLS median wage stats. I’ve noticed that none of the top job markets in the US and the world have great weather. Examples are NYC, Boston, Bay area, DC, London, Tokyo, Geneva, Paris, Munich etc.
Is there an inverse relationship between great weather/lifestyle metro areas and salaries?
All the areas you listed are older than LA in general and Orange County in particular. In fact, “modern society” came late to most areas in the world with excellent weathr.
No, but there is a probably a pretty good correlation between all the cities you mentioned and their proximity to water and ease of commercial transportation. I think the higher wages owe more to this history of commerce in these cities. Unfortunately, weather is a secondary consideration for that.
I was born and raised in Northern California ( South Bay Area). I have lived in the Bay Area, Sacramento, Midwest and now the Southeast ( Chapel Hill , NC). I am a physician and make more money in the Southeast than I could make in California. They pay you in ” sunshine” in California. I miss my home state, but find it has become too crowded, dirty, and chaotic compared to NC. Sure, the weather in coastal California is phenomenal and I miss it, BUT, my children go to good public schools, and we have all the amenities that the West Coast has, without the burden of all the poor homeless souls and social ills that have befallen my former state. There is more to life than weather, and besides we have a reasonable four season climate. I think in general the more ” desirable areas” pay less, attract young singles or married without children types. That’s OK, enjoy those areas when you are young, then leave when raising your children in a more family oriented environment is desired.
I talked to several people when I lived in the midwest who feel much like you do. 35 years ago, in a conversation with a physician who grew up in Pasadena, he stated that he could not afford to buy the home he grew up in. The established communities in California have always been expensive. Irvine, in contrast to the established cities, seems to be more of a chronic development – but expensive nevertheless.
Ugh, I hate you IR…I’m out of state right now and the #1 reason I’m going to return is because of the weather. I’m miserable out here, and your post makes me miss home.
When people mention why I’d live in CA with how expensive it is, I tell them it’s the weather…I don’t think they really understand, but you hit it on the head with all the places you’ve lived. I’d rather live in a matchbox condo than a McMansion if it means Irvine weather…being able to wander in and out without suiting up like you going to war is something I took for granted.
So I wholeheartedly agree there’s a segment out there that greatly value weather. It keeps me less stressed and probably adds years to my life, it’s tough to put a dollar amount on that!
don’t worry the California state govt can! Get ready!
But on a positive note: it’s easier to be homeless in an area with nice weather…
The smog sucks, but it is getting better. There is almost no smog in South Orange County, but there are a few days every year where you will notice it. So Cal generally is a very smoggy place. Some people never leave Irvine, but you will probably encounter smog of massive proportions if you go anywhere near the LA, the mountain foothills, or Inland Empire areas. There are something like 13 million people in the basin that Irvine shares with Los Angeles, and they are all driving cars. I could talk about traffic and crowds, but that is for another day.
It is much less smoggy than it was in the early 1970s. This is entirely due to the government – if it were up to Detroit and Japan, we would be choking on automobile exhaust. Every improvement in air quality has been due to the government. There is no reasonable way of debating this point.
Absolutely agreed on both that it’s much better than in decades past, and that the government is who deserves the credit for the improvement.
except CA has…. EARTHQUAKES!!!!
Earthquake risk varies greatly, based on location. Generally, the farther south toward San Diego that you live, away from the San Andreas fault, the better. It also depends upon what kind of soil that you live on: a solid rock hillside is better than a sandy ancient river bottom, in general.
On another subject…savings account interest rates. We’ve had a regular savings account at ING direct for about 8 years. ING is federally insured. Of course the interest rate has gone down over the years. But, I just looked at it and it’s currently 1.391% with APY of 1.40%. Then I looked at the CD rates at Wells Fargo where we bank. On a standard CD the highest rate I saw was .80% for a 1 year CD with $100,000. The WF regular savings account rate is practically 0.
I’ve always liked ING.
W(t)F indeed!
Even with a good job the weather isn’t worth the cost of housing – I prefer to be somewhere where I can both buy a nice sized house and actually enjoy my life (be able to afford to go the movies, etc), rather than in a place where I have to choose. The amount of people that would come here or stay here solely for the weather (without job or family) is so small it wouldn’t make a tiny bit of difference. People like to use the ‘weather’ as their reason for everything when really if you parsed it down that is probably the least of the reasons they are here in so. ca.
In my experience many of the people that use this argument have never really lived outside of so. ca. for any extended period of time nor do they have a realistic idea of what kind of life they could lead – financially – in another state. Obviously there are some like IR that actually have experienced other places, have other options still and choose the weather as their priority – but I don’t think that is the norm.
I see just the opposite as you. Most of the SoCal natives I know who do NOT really understand how much bad weather can impact your lifestyle are the ones who are apt to want to jump ship for cheaper pastures. Those of us who know tell them “you don’t realize how good you have it”.
And I’ve lived elsewhere and definitely have a have a “realistic idea” of what one can afford out “there”. Sure, for the price of a 1500 sq ft townhouse here you can have a 3000 sq ft house in Minneapolis or Houston or Phoenix. But you damn well better be able to get more sq feet there — because you’ll likely spend an inordinate amount of time INSIDE that house. I’ll take the smaller house and all the sq feet you can enjoy in the great outdoors 365 days a year.
I live in Irvine, work in Huntington Beach. The weather is nice, but it is not that nice. Don’t make more of it than it actually is.
By the way;
http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.50752/k.D532/Rankings.htm
Metropolitan Areas Most Polluted by Short-term Particle Pollution:
1 LOS ANGELES-LONG BEACH-RIVERSIDE, CA
2 FRESNO-MADERA, CA
3 BAKERSFIELD, CA
4 PITTSBURGH-NEW CASTLE, PA
5 EUGENE-SPRINGFIELD, OR
Metropolitan Areas Most Polluted by Year-Round Particle Pollution:
1 LOS ANGELES-LONG BEACH-RIVERSIDE, CA
2 VISALIA-PORTERVILLE, CA
3 BAKERSFIELD, CA
4 FRESNO-MADERA, CA
5 PITTSBURGH-NEW CASTLE, PA
Top 26 U.S. Counties Most Polluted by Annual Particle Pollution:
1 RIVERSIDE, CA
2 SAN BERNARDINO, CA
3 LOS ANGELES, CA
4 TULARE, CA
5 KERN, CA
Orange is #8
Metropolitan Areas with the Worst Ozone Air Pollution:
1 LOS ANGELES-RIVERSIDE-ORANGE COUNTY, CA
2 FRESNO, CA
3 BAKERSFIELD, CA
4 VISALIA- -PORTERVILLE, CA
5 HOUSTON-BAYTOWN-HUNTSVILLE, TX CMSA
Riverside is quite polluted (although it has gotten better over the years due to all the AQMD restrictions). Irvine and other areas close to the ocean are much, much better.
I wound up renting on the border of Irvine & NPB near Shady Canyon because the pollution downwind of I 405 and I 5 made my eyes water. Plus it stinks of car exhaust all the way to the Portola area.
If I were crazy enough to actually buy a house in OC, I would want it to be upwind of the major highways.
“gotten better” doesn’t mean much when it’s still listed as the “worst”.
I remember mandatory indoor recess during elementary school when there were smog alerts in the early 70’s in L.A.
Now THAT was bad.
I had one stage 3 in the late 70s in suburban L.A. County that closed school at lunch.
I used to do the AQMD reporting for a factory in Corona in the 90’s. They told us that Riverside County was high in particulates is due to all the undeveloped land.
I was in San Dimas and Pomona back in July for my brother in law’s wedding. It was too hot for me there. As we flew out of LAX, our plane headed straight west up over the beach and ocean. I looked down at all the people on the beach, and then at all the sailboats out for a pleasure cruise. I bet the climate out on the ocean was better than Pomona. That’s a life I could get used to! I live in a suburb of Chicago, about 25 miles from Lake Michigan. The smaller lakes around here are all filled with powerboats. Personally, I prefer sailing. I just need a bigger boat to take my wife and kids on. Of course I’ll still need to store it during the winter, since the lakes freeze solid 3 months out of the year. Hey, at least we’re not Minnesota! I like to ride my bike to the Metra station to commute to work. I don’t consider it too cold to ride, until it’s below 40F. I have a good job and family here, so I put up with the climate. This summer, it’s been cooler than usual. Most days have been in the upper 70s, close to the Irvine ideal. And not too humid either. The grass could use some rain, though.
I used to live in Chicago. Often I find myself wishing that I could live someplace where I could walk everywhere — walk a block to the corner store, get on the train and go to work, have my choice of places to eat and friends to visit, all within a 20 minute walk. In other words — Chicago! “Nobody moves to Chicago for the weather” is the famous expression, but that place has PLENTY going for it!
I also grew up in the brutal Midwest, in suburban Minneapolis. IR is right on, it is miserable for much of the year. When its not bitter cold, its blazing hot. Watch the PGA this weekend, its 10 minutes from my childhood home. I’ll bet its in the low 90’s with humidity in tropical range — and they’ll probably need to evacuate the course a few times for lightning strikes.
Another factor IR does not mention is the psychological effect of weather. Every single night of the year here I sleep with the windows open. Every single morning I wake up to birds chirping and sunshine (well, not today). You bounce out of bed in a good mood and ready to get after the day. In a cold gray climate half (or more) of the year you get beat down — you just want to pull the covers over your head and hide. Seasonal depression is real, ask anybody in Seattle or Minneapolis for that matter. No thanks, I’ve been in So Cal for 16 years and I’m not leaving — I’ll pay more for less house here to avoid what I know all too well.
SoCal and the realty industry need a lot more people like you in OC, all with six-figure jobs to support the housing prices. You can have mine in due course.
…and we need fewer downers like you. Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$.
What the hell?? Are you the IHB police? Only consenting, popular views allowed? If you do not mindless follow the party line then leave? Whatever.
Without telling you to pi$$-off or any of the myriad responses that jumped to mind when I read your above, I will simply thank you for making Irvine your committed home. I am making a fortune off of you.
Chill brother…I’m not saying leave IHB, love the debate out here. That’s the “California” door I was referring to. Based on your posting of smog stats and your sensitivity to the air — along with “you can have my job in due time”, how else am I to read it other than you are on your way out the big door to the east (or north) of California?
The weather here has other tangible financial benefits.
For one thing, in the 15 years I’ve owned my home in Irvine, it has never had an a/c or heating system, and never needed it. If it’s warm, I open the windows. If it’s cold, I have a portable heater I’ll plug in for the 5 or 6 nights a year it’s needed.
My cousins live in Las Vegas, and their electric bills in the summer are higher than my mortgage payment.
The biggest weather benefit for me is that weather affects my livlihood. I teach people to fly, especially aerobatics. This requires good weather. I can’t fly much when the freezing level is low or there are thunderstorms around. Good weather = more money for me.
–Ron
I’ve lived in NYC, Boston, Seattle, Houston, San Francisco, and now Irvine. The choice to live in those cities was always job related. I loved living in each of these cities when I was there. But even if a great job opportunity were to arise from one of those cities, I would probably decline to stay in Irvine. I know Irvine isn’t the perfect city but the weather is as perfect as its going to get. I was in Seattle when it had 30 straight days of rain. NYC and Boston have winters where it hurts to breathe and Houston is so humid that your glasses fog up everytime you walk from your car to a building because it has to be the #1 abuser of A/C.
Let’s face it, we all priortize our values differently. I happen to love the weather in South O.C. because I can still go to the pool on New Year’s Eve like we did last year and then take them to the snow two days later. Of course I would like a bigger house on a bigger lot but it doesn’t bother me that much because there is so much to do here. Remember that people come to L.A/O.C./S.D. for vacation year-round and the fact my family gets to call it home is pretty cool.
Seattle. Rainy days in a row.
Light grey
In the daytime.
Dark grey
At nighttime.
Car wipers on delay
Most of the time.
Brain on freeze
Without Starbucks.
No man… I moved to California from the Puget Sound in ’82. Crossed the Shiskayou Pass in a blinding snowtorm with chains on the Vega (chunk! chunk!).
Saw the “Welcome to Sunny California” billboard on the downhill side. Covered with snow! I wish I had had a camera.
Spent my first night in Weed.
Loved it.
We go back to Seattle often. In the summer we make plans to buy a house by Alki Point. Then we go during Christmas and quickly make plans to buy a house in Oah’u instead. 😉
IrvineRenter: Nice post
Dr George Fishbeck, retired weatherman replaced by Dallas Raines, answered your question decades ago – and almost every night during his forecast – when he asked, “why are all those folks in California? It’s the weather, folks!”
As to your individual points:
Cold – not nearly as noticeable due to the dry climate.
Hot – how many homes in Irvine have a/c? Would they have it if they didn’t need it?
Humid – virtually everyone enjoys 50% or less humidity; and dislikes 70% or higher. So…no contest there either.
Wet – again, no contest. But we know someone in Bonsall who pays $450/mo to keep their 1 acre lawn green – and how much higher is the Irvine water bill for those with pools constantly evaporating due to the dryness, particularly in summer months.
Storms – nothing worth mentioning. On the other hand, earthquake insurance thru the CEA (with a 15% deductible – $112K on a $750k home) will increase the premium on your home by about 70% annually; probably accounts for the fact that only about 12% of Californians carry it. And if you live in a condo you can’t get it individually, only thru your association. How many readers know what their condo earthquake coverage is – and if they do, feel it is adequate? And if earthquakes weren’t a significant threat, why is the coverage so expensive?
I grew up in south Florida which, capsulizing its negatives, is flat, buggy and humid. So Cal isn’t. On the other hand, Fla has no state income tax; what bracket are most Irvine residents in? And Cal state sales tax is 9% (Fla is 6%); and check your monthly kilowatt hour average cost with averages in areas not served by So Cal Edison. And how often do you find yourself regularly paying the highest rate on the toll road to get to work or home a little faster.
I think there is one other major factor In addition to the weather determining Irvine’s popularity: the school systems. Take away their high rankings and I’d bet that the weather wouldn’t be nearly as significant.
Ultimately, however, income, earned and/or unearned, determines whether desires trump needs. Unless it is abundant, every day involves trade-offs.
I was at Back Bay Park in Newport Beach recently, and saw RVs parked at the edge of the sand, parked ten feet from the water at Newport Dunes, and thought to myself that’s the way to do it. Why fork out a small fortune for a house when you can just own an RV and park it right there – that’s the way to enjoy the waterfront
I thought so, too, until I found out daily space rent on the beach is $180/day!
We traveled around the US one summer in an RV and ended at Newport Dunes. It was our least favorite RV park in the country. Crowded, dirty, and smelly.
Interesting. I guess just going over for the day and parking on the street was the way to go then :).
I rode my bike through there this weekend. It was the first time I have seen it, and I was not impressed. The croud looked like what I would see at a Riverside park. Lots of guys with shaved heads. They can’t all be going bald. I don’t see the appeal.
The Balboa Ferry is still just 25 cents!
I guess this is all about personal preferences, so I disagree:
– No seasons
– The blue sky gets boring after a while (who wants to eat chocolate cake each day?)
– People not as friendly as midwest
– People much more materialistic and appearance-focused than in the midwest
For me people are more important than the weather and I definitely miss the snow in the winter.
All of this plus the high cost of living. I don’t understand some people’s obsession with SoCal. I am ready to leave whenever my company transfers me…I am holding on to my cash and continue to rent so I can buy somewhere else.
PS what is great though is the proximity of beach and mountains.
“The blue sky gets boring after a while…”
I wish it were blue sky. Hazy afternoon sunshine is the norm, which to me is not appealing. More often than not, you can’t even see Saddleback 15 miles away, let alone the San Gabriels, due to the persistent haze. Our very comfortable weather (which I very much appreciate) does come with a price tag…
My birthday is in January.
We usually do a nice roast in the BBQ.
I call the family in the Great Wet Northwest. From a chair, next to the BBQ, while smoking a nice cigar.
I seldom wear long pants in the weekends.
When we go to The Happiest Place on Earth (we got the Deluxe Passports), if it’s cold (55 degrees brrr.) I’ll wear a parka but keep the shorts… normal SoCal folks.
Our lots are small, yes, but we can use all of them year round.
So, yeah, our weather is great year ’round, except for those two months of December and January when I’d rather be in a house in the hills of Aie’a or Hawai’i Kai.
That, bruddahs, is da life style.
So, yeah, when my wife’s coworkers fly in from Ohio in winter, shedding their clothes as they go from -20 to 70 and show their 2 acre spreads… well, we just think about the hassle of mowing two acres of lawn in the summer and trudging through the tundra, mile after mile, from your house to the car in the winter…
(I quoted Frank Zappa there)
Creating and maintaining seem to be two very different things:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2009/08/seriously-below-surface.html
Was the mark-up for CA real estate mis-valued in 2000 vs 2006? I’ll acknowledge the value in the weather, but the weather didn’t change, but prices skyrocketed. What accounts for that ‘recent’ change?
Here in the San Joaquin Valley near the foothills, there are occasional frost temperatures which improve the orange crop a little bit, and only severe freezes, like the one in 1990 and 1999 will affect the avocados to a great degree.
Where I am is assumed to be at low earthquake risk, the summers are dry and hot, and in the rainy season to see more than an inch of rain in one day is a rare event.
OTOH, I first saw snow falling when I was an undergrad in St. Louis, MO.
as a native californian who has just moved back (because this is where my job is) after about 20 years out of state, i can tell you california has lost most of its appeal for many outsiders. the weather is desirable, but not much else. cost of living, polarized politics, paralyzed government, brain-dead voters that mandate spending programs with no regard for how to pay for them– have all but killed off the “california dream”
I have heard this exact conversation take place everywhere I have lived – just take out ‘weather’ and add something else – e.g., diversity, beauty, warm ocean, skiing,), etc., etc. It is always the same – everyone arguing why there place is the best and another place is not. What you certainly don’t find is people in other places arguing that they love So. CA and want to go live there – never really heard that much….
I don’t see this one either. I’m from the Midwest, Chicago in particular, and while I love the weather in SoCal, I would never take it into account when deciding whether to continue living here.
I’m an outdoorsy person. We take our kids on hikes, etc. every weekend. The boys just started swimming lessons, and it was kind of neat to realize that the lessons are offered year-round; there is no reason to wait until next summer when the pools open, they are always open. Los Angeles county has hundreds of miles of bike trails, completely devoid of traffic, that I enhit as much as possible. We entertain fairly regularly, eat our daily meals outside, etc. California makes all of these things possible and we try to take advantage of them.
But even though I enjoy this stuff, I just don’t think it is that important. I suppose it is a subjective thing, but seriously — in the wintertime you can just put on a coat. The cold isn’t that bad. As a kid I played plenty of soccer games in humid summer weather — you get used to it, it’s not like you spend the whole summer gasping for air. You acclimate. Most urban areas spray for mosquitoes, you don’t have to break out the DEET to go to the grocery store. In other parts of the country, people still manage to engage in outdoor activities when the weather gets bad. It’s not that difficult to adapt.
And you do miss a lot here in SoCal. My kids are 6 and 4 and they have never seen snow! Never! I keep meaning to take them to the mountains but just haven’t gotten around to it. They’ve never built a snowman, gone sledding, made snow angels — we’re going to have to travel in order for them to do any of these things.
Sometimes I even miss the rain. At least in the Pasadena area, not every day is sunny. The “Marine Layer” sometimes lasts until 4:00 p.m. in the spring and fall, i.e. just before the sun goes down, and it’s like having rainy weather without the rain.
I sometimes also feel that the intense sunlight requires us all to live inside a microwave oven. We go through gallons of sunscreen every year in order to protect the kids. It sticks to everything, attracts dirt like a magnet, dirties up the floors, the inside of the car, gets into your eyes, etc. I’d much rather throw on a winter jacket and some gloves than lather up with greasy sunscreen every day.
For all of these reasons, I just don’t place tremendous value on the weather in SoCal. It’s nice, sure. Would I pay a little more to live in an area with nice weather? For example, would I pay, say, 20-25% more for a single family house in an area with nice weather? Sure. But would I pay 5-6x more? No way. I think a lot of Californians tend to overstimate the premium for nice weather. It’s nice, but it doesn’t mean that people will make any sacrifice, bear any burden, etc.
I have been fixing up my mother’s rental in Northwood for the last few weeks and my alergies have been bothering me. There is no A/C, so the windows were always open when I was growing up. I would sneeze for 10 minutes straight every morning, and my nose would run and eyes would water all day due to the molds and pollen.
I am still surrounded by orange groves in Riverside, but hardly have a problem. I keep my A/C going so the house is closed up and I think it is drier out here so there is less mold.
“We have perfect weather in Irvine.”
Santa Ana is right next to Irvine and so you can say the same wrt that city as well.
So how’s the pricing there? I’m sure you can get a McMansion (if any) at 1/2 the Irvine price 🙂
Bottom line: weather is NOT the only **main** factor toward housing price.
IR, one negative factor you failed to mention wrt Irvine is that, during fire season WITH Santa Ana wind, the fire soot left over from all that burned out forest will cover Irvine nicely.
Carwash dealers love to see that scenario every year 🙂
I used to live in Wisconsin, one day in the winter it was so cold when I was walking an ice cube fell out of my pant leg, I picked it up and brought it home and put it in front of the fireplace, it melted and said “ZERT”, then I remembered that I had farted while I was walking, it really gets so cold that your farts will freez.
So I am looking for a place with good weather and no weather extremes and SoCal sounds like a good place to make a permanent home. I live on the coast near Houston and it is basically 90+ right now with over 70% humidity. Getting closer inland the temperature goes into the low 100s but the humidity drops a bit. And I hate the mosquitoes.
Anyway, I was wondering about a few things about SoCal. How bad is this so called smog that has been mentioned quite a number of times? Does it really inhibit breathing and how comparable is it to breathing stuffy, humid air? And about the sunshine. I am a bit photophobic so too much sunshine can be a bad thing. Is it brighter than normal or is it just regular commonplace sunshine? The earthquakes and fires also worry me a bit, since I’m always hearing about so and so place is burning up in Cali plastered all over the news.
Since many of the commentors here seem to have experience living in various places, what would be a good alternative to Irvine/SoCal? I don’t really mind having four seasons as long as there are no big extremes. I also don’t want sunshine 100% of the time and would like rainy days where the air is clean and it feels nice to sleep in, lullabied by the pit-pattering of the rain. I hate mosquitoes though so maybe not too much rain. I would also love to have light snow, just enough to be knee deep, maybe a month or so during the year, but with no freezing temperatures and no need to shovel the driveway or throw salt on the road. Yeah, basically all a pipedream, having the best of all four seasons without the negatives to drag you down. Does this nirvana exist?