Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty Prevents Further Inflation of Canadian Housing Bubble

Feb 23rd, 2010  
by IrvineRenter  in

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by Geotpf
2010-02-23 08:36 AM

Ignoring the allure of a interest-only variable rate (which gives you an artifically low payment and probably no longer exists), I don’t understand getting a variable rate mortgage when rates are historically low (as is the case now).  If you think rates are going to be higher soon, get a fixed rate mortgage.  If you think rates are going to drop, then a variable rate mortgage makes sense.  It also might make sense if you plan on only owning a property for a short period of time-but in that case, renting probably makes more sense.

Astute Observation by alx
2010-02-23 11:03 AM

In Canada, fixed loan terms higher than 5 years is nearly non-existent.  Unlike the US, a typical mortgage can only be “locked in” for 5 years, which is not much of a lock-in, at least in my opinion.

One of the rationale to always go variable is that, if the rates are 2% now, and will rise to 5% over the course of 5 years, it’s still better to get ARM and pay 2%, 2.5%, 3%, 3.5%, 4%... over the years, than to start paying 5% right off year 1.  By refinance time, those taken ARM as well as those on fixed 5-year terms would need to renew at the same rate of, say, 5%, but the ARM guy had paid off a lot more principal (or taken more vacations) than the fixed term guy.

Unless one expects the rate to rise sharply (e.g. from 2% to 8% in 5 years), variable seems to be the better way to go.

Astute Observation by No Bull
2010-02-23 08:54 AM

No the real problem IS government trying to control free markets. We in the US had little controls going up the bubble, and now have government trying to keep in inflated with bank bailouts and loan mods on the way down. This was strictly done for our Wall St masters and has nothing to do for Main St. It’s too late, we will now have a declining housing market for 5+ years thanks to the fed and government trying to “fix” the problem. The problem is them!

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2010-02-23 09:04 AM

There wasn’t a free market during the bubble and there isn’t one now.  During the bubble the government forced prices up.  You can controll via no controlls, this is exactly what the US Government did in the oughts-decade.

We have never seen a free market and never will, why is this so hard to understand?

Astute Observation by No Bull
2010-02-23 10:53 AM

The Gov can’t force prices up any more than they can force you to take out a loan. What they can do is force banks to hold cash (TARP) to prop up the balance sheets for loan losses. This has the (un?)intended consequence of allowing banks to hold on to foreclosed properties thereby keeping home prices artificially high.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 09:36 AM

But our collective intelligence has dispatched another gang of hooligans to D.C to find new ways to help us.  And that is what they are doing - “helping”.  Of course the solution that they come up with will never be anything that does not enrich the political donor class along the way which always gets ignored.

But hey, the folks have spoken - they want the District of Columbia to be the nation’s consumer complaint headquarters.  They want the commander in chief to come up with new services (paid for by someone else of course) and make jobs for everybody and make sure that homosexuals are not getting married.

All that stuff about upholding the constitution, defending “liberty”, etc Get with the times - nobody cares about all that old kind of stuff.  We have bigger problems right now like making sure everybody has a lousy job so everyone can make mortgage payments and shop at malls for stuff we don’t even produce.

The majority of people have spoken - We have gotten exactly what we have asked for.

Keep voting for Republicans and Democrats!  We need to keep the fun times going!

Astute Observation by NOT
2010-02-23 02:53 PM

Instead of spouting off the typical rhetoric, maybe go visit some other places and see how it “isn’t working” “over there”.  Never mind, I forgot, it “we are the best”.

Astute Observation by Sue in Irvine
2010-02-23 08:57 AM

I like the red couches in the living room with the fireplace. But the red office is too much.

We were in Vancouver in August of 2006 (or ‘07, I can’t remember). We stayed in a hotel near the water downtown. There was a lot of high rise condo construction going on. A hotel employee told us one development sold out within 1/2 hour.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 09:16 AM

I am glad that the listing agent clarified the fact that one of the three bedrooms is currently being used as an office.  These are details that I am very interested in knowing; how the current seller uses one room for a computer and two others for beds.

If I buy this place and turn the room into a Meth lab will the sales description be sure to indicate that the third bedroom is currently being used as a laboratory?  I would certainly hope so.

Astute Observation by Sue in Irvine
2010-02-23 01:13 PM

That’s LOL David

Astute Observation by nefron
2010-02-23 09:34 AM

I like this place, have had my eye on it for a while.  In fact, I’ve been wondering why it’s still on the market.  I think the HOA fees over there are really high, though, and I wonder if they include any golf privledges or membership in the racquet club over there.

Astute Observation by thrifty
2010-02-23 10:06 AM

Off topic for a moment. A Redfin listing today for a $360K short sale condo in San Clemente has this statement by the realtor, “Buyer must agree to a short sale negotiation fee of $3,500 so we can assure a quick process.” This is apparently in addition to any commission paid at the close of escrow. Am baffled as to how this assures a quick process - and why it exists in addition to usual commission. Any one know?

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2010-02-23 10:15 AM

Let’s call this the shadow inventory tax. 

I’m still waiting for a bank to break up this lucrative cartel, liquidate shadow inventory properties and declare their insolvency LOL.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 10:23 AM

It just sounds like a starving realtor( little ‘r’) who is tired of wasting their valuable time of failed short sales.  I would assume buyers will pay the fee regardless of the outcome of the negotiation.

I actually don’t have a problem with this at all.  What I take exception with is them still trying to claw a commission for themselves on top of the fees.

Get rid of the commission model and just move to an hourly fee of 15.00$ per hour.

Astute Observation by HydroCabron
2010-02-23 12:09 PM

I’d be willing to go much higher than $15/hour for a literate realtor.

Invalidate all existing realtor licenses,then require fresh certification under an examination structure which consists solely of the GRE verbal section. Set compensation increments at each score decile. Ban the bottom two deciles from the profession for life. Restrict the next two deciles to making coffee, sharpening pencils, and cleaning the restrooms at the agency. Mandate that the fifth decile earn minimum wage and wear electrodes on the genital to administer a substantial voltage; scale the voltage linearly with the number of grammatical errors found in each listing.

Place the remaining deciles in successively higher pay scales which top out somewhere in the low six figures. I doubt that more than $25 per hour is an appropriate compensation for any one below the top quintile - consider the population we’re dealing with.

There is no conceivable way that my proposal could make the profession any worse than it is.

Astute Observation by Calpolymom
2010-02-23 10:20 AM

I like the red decor.  What I don’t like is the wet bar in the office; this should not be called a third bedroom, it’s definitely an office or den.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 10:31 AM

Just haul some fermentation tanks into it and turn the room into a Brewery.  Sell pints of freshly brewed Amber Ale with a catchy name like “Irvine Kool Aid” to all the neighbors.  You just have to think outside the box.

You know, Rush Limbaugh loves telling unemployed people to just go out and start their own businesses.  Here’s your chance!  Work from home!

Astute Observation by tonyE
2010-02-23 02:11 PM

Marijuana soon will be legal in California and small plots will be legal as well.

A small place like this, with a small patch would be nice for some high grade “Irvine Gold”.

The red walled room would make a fantastic smoking room.

Soon, we’ll have to copyright “Irvine Gold” and “Organically grown in Irvine”.  Those of us with real yards will soon become tycoons.  It sort of changes the kind of grass we grow.

Unfortunately for those of you living in the desert, the weather is too harsh.  You might get Arizona Green at best.

Time to dig up the Cheech and Chong records.

“No stems no seeds that you don’t need,
Irvine Gold is bad a$$ weed”...  ;-D

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2010-02-23 10:52 AM

The US didn’t have no regulation, just deregulation on the area of need and regulations to keep barriers of entry.

FEDs keeping prices high by lowering interest rates are regulations, GSEs and other loss limits with no profit limit for WS investment bankers are regulations, abide poor regulations to stiff the taxpayers.

Articles on dramatic drop in consumer sentiment after 3 month of improvements.  At Tahoe over between Christmas and new years, there were almost no lines for skiing and the condo were asking if you wanted to stay longer instead of reminding you to be out by check out time.  Plenty of parking.  The media can spin all they want to get BHO plans through and poll numbers up but when you’ve been out of work or see many of your friends out of work, you know the economy isn’t improving for the working man. 

BTW, aticle on 17% increase in bonus.  Implies the little guy is getting lots more $ in bonus, but not necessary so.  Take company X with 10% overall cash bonus (16.5 million salaries, 1.66 million for bonus) and 150 employees.  Top 5 in company make 8X over medium salary of $80,000, (average $110,000) and are at 30%-50% and 100% for CEO of salary for bonus.  About 60% of the cash bonus is used for the top 5 in the company.  The remaining 95% split the remaining 40% or 4%.  Very common in many companies.  Makes bonus structure look generous, but generous for whom?  Very similar to the multi-trillion $ bailout/recovery package, very generous but for whom?

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 02:35 PM

Do you think that could have anything to do with a 10 Month Low Consumer Confidence”?

I am shocked!  Shocked I say!  Just after seeing all those folks bum rushing Wal Mart for crappy flat screen TVs over the holidays.

Astute Observation by AZDavidPhx
2010-02-23 10:59 AM

FDIC Troubled Banks Increase

The spin is that the “overall” industry made a profit.  So if you factor in the bailouts and under the covers Tom Foolery propping things up - all is getting better.

Astute Observation by alx
2010-02-23 11:23 AM

I live in Vancouver, Canada, and since the latest stat shows that it is currently *one of the most unaffordable city* in the world, I do not have much enthusiasm for Flaherty’s solution to the problem he had a huge hand in creating.  The current median house price to median income ratio is 9.3!!

Just a couple years ago, Canadians used to be able to buy houses with 0% downpayment, amortized 40 years.  This was introduced in 2006 by the same government if I am not mistaken.  They realized they screwed up and increased the downpayment requirement to 5% and max amortization to 35 years.  Banks are lending to anyone with a pulse because most of the mortgages are insured by the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC), backed by the government (read: taxpayers).  The CMHC has increased their total guarantees to many hundreds of billions (I can’t remember since they kept upping the number).

I’m not saying the new regulations are not welcoming changes.  I just wouldn’t eat crows for them.  The biggest issue of CMHC backing all mortgages with under 20% downpayment is still not addressed. shut eye

As a whole, the bubble is not that big in Canada.  But in some major cities far from Ottawa, the bubble can’t get any bigger.  Saying Canada has a small bubble is like saying the US has a small bubble, except people who live in Irvine or Vancouver don’t feel the same way.

Astute Observation by alx
2010-02-23 11:24 AM

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

Affordability indices.

Astute Observation by newbie2008
2010-02-23 03:34 PM

Very interesting report.
High rises (dense people packing) doesn’t by itself lend a less energy use because when people don’t pay directly, they tend to waste more.  I’ve witnessed this trend all my life.  Common heated or AC building have windows open all year round. Heat is also turned up and AC temps down.  But once individual metering is in effect, the energy usuage goes down (heat turned down, AC temp goes up with individual metering).  Seen “public” apt building have window kept open in sub-zero climate.  HOA on N.Korean Towers are $1000 and up.  Lots to pay for common utilities.

With “govt” planning, i.e., govt restriction on building, there can be lots of manpulation on the supply and thus the prices.  Owners/Masters of the land and factories, then restrict the land supply for pleasants’homes and pleasants’ transportation to boost the value of the masters’ land near the work centers.  Sell at a very high price to the pleasants and then move your factory to a new location that gives you the land and tax benefits.  Start the cycle over again.  A 70 to 100 year plan, but great-grandchildren and grandchildren of those in control during the Great Depression are in control today.

Astute Observation by Planer Reality
2010-02-23 11:44 AM

There isn’t a bubble in these major cities.  There is huge wealth disparity in our global economy which is only going to get worse as we stay the course with fiscal policies.

Hypothetically let’s assume a bank began unloading shadow inventory.

The FDIC would take over the said insolvent bank and sell it to a Goldman Sachs executive faster than you can say ZIRP.

Astute Observation by avobserver
2010-02-23 02:28 PM

“There isn’t a bubble in these major cities.  There is huge wealth disparity in our global economy which is only going to get worse as we stay the course with fiscal policies.”

Sadly you hit the nail right on the head. Housing market has become a global phenomenon, not local. House prices in place like Vancouver or Irvine have less and less to do with local income, but more to their desirability to non-local buyers.

National governments’ effort to re-inflate economy and asset markets around the globe has accelerated the concentration of wealth into smaller group of elite and widened the gap between haves and have-nots. Working poor will gradually replace “middle class” as the largest segment of population for most of the developed world in North America, Japan, and EU in foreseeable future (if it has not already happened). Polarization of income and wealth will be even more severe in BRIC and other developing countries. The beauty of globalization is not just about labor arbitrage or free capital flow, but also about those who came out as winners under the current system will have wider variety of ways to store their wealth.

In a few years I won’t be surprised if a green card is to be attached as part of stipulation for some “foreign investors” to snatch up a few residential properties in the US. Locations with more desirable qualities (culture, safety, school, weather, etc) will likely demand increasingly higher premiums over other places. In the end we will probably see a two-tiered housing market system in most of the countries, where the top tier locations attract money and investment from the rich class from all over the world and likely see the price hold up well. The bottom tier markets (>90% of housing units) will see price drop for decades to come as the “middle class” completes its obsolescence.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2010-02-23 02:44 PM

Exactly.

Look on the bright side.

In many more mature global cities real estate is only affordable to the uber wealthy or attainable through inheritance from a wealthy relative.

Astute Observation by tonyE
2010-02-23 04:35 PM

If I wanted to live in a place like France I would move there.

I don’t want the US to be like France.

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter
2010-02-23 01:32 PM

alx,

Thanks for your input and detailed knowledge of the history. It is appreciated.

Astute Observation by houses Toronto
2010-02-23 02:03 PM

I must say, that interior in that house is amazing. Person who designed it, had a great sense of house designing. Of course, I didn’t see details of this house, even when we take into consideration how old it is, but from my first sight it is really worth that price.
Take care,
Julie

Astute Observation by NOT
2010-02-23 05:24 PM

I hope you are being facetious.

Astute Observation by ADepressionIsComingSoonRichard
2010-02-23 07:41 PM

You write ... “Canada is likely to experience a slow grinding decline similar to ours over the next decade as interest rates rise keeping loan balances small, appreciation minimal, and foreclosures abundant”.

I expect prices to fall rather RAPIDLY once an economic crisis hits the United States, such as a Treasury Auction Failure and a resultant rise in interest rates, with a continental wide response made to economic disruption under the terms of the Security and Prosperity Agreement, the SPP.

I recommend a read of the complete thoughts on the enclosed link.

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2010-02-23 07:58 PM

Don’t get too optimistic ...

‘Volcker Rule’ Stalls in Senate
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703503804575083823511212204.html?mod=WSJ_article_LatestHeadlines

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2010-02-23 08:45 PM

Interesting map - click on California, then mouse over the green $ signs.  Yes, Irvine is on there.

http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2010/02/us-wealth-centers/

Astute Observation by EMc
2010-02-23 09:12 PM

Just got back from Vancouver and Whistler.  An amazing amount of coolaid being consumed right now.  All the same things people said here in 2006.  (20% year of year increases are normal and sustainable, foreign cash buyers, etc..)  You can’t throw a dead cat without hitting brand new 25 story condo buildings.  Studios are starting at $300,000.  I’m guessing the cost of living is close to the bay area, incomes are not.

Astute Observation by jmb27
2010-02-25 03:36 PM

Predatory Lending is a major contributor to the economic turmoil we are currently experiencing.

Here is an example of what I am talking about: 
Scott Veerkamp / Predatory Lending (Franklin Township School Board Member.)

Please review this information from U.S. Senator Jeff Merkley regarding deceptive lending practices:
“Steering payments were made to brokers who enticed unsuspecting homeowners into deceptive and expensive mortgages.  These secret bonus payments, often called Yield Spread Premiums, turned home mortgages into a SCAM.”

The Center for Responsible Lending says YSP “steals equity from struggling families.” 
1. Scott collected nearly $10,000 on two separate mortgages using YSP and junk fees. 2. This is an average of $5,000 per loan. 3. The median value of the properties was $135,000.  4. Clearly, this type of lending represents a major ripoff for consumers.

http://merkley.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=A09C6A80-537A-4EB1-83C5-31925F046B6F

Commenting is not available in this channel entry.

<< Back to main