Bond Market Selloff Makes Mortgage Rates Rise

Astute Observations

Astute Observation by winstongator
2010-11-24 08:14 AM

Your MBAA link is a week old and the new data shows purchase apps at their highest level in almost 6 months

Bob Rubin???  The guy behind deregulation, who worked to stifle Brooksley Born (who wanted to regulate credit-default swaps and other derivatives).  Board member of Citi and general cheerleader for Wall St.  There are few less qualified to be instructing us as to what is or is not in our general best interests.

The thing that would happen before our interest rates rose considerably - more than the quarter point mortgage rates have risen - is the the dollar would weaken.  China is committed to a strong dollar policy, so if US gov debt were being dumped by some foreign country, China would more than buy it up.  It’s not a sustainable situation, but it is where we’re at today.  A weaker dollar would accurately reflect our trade situation, help exports, hurt imports, and work to bring our trade back into balance.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 08:22 AM

China is, on a net basis, selling US treasuries.  China is selling more US treasuries than they are buying.  I sent IR a graph with this info and more showing which coutries are buying US debt because I do not know how to post a graph here.  Maybe he will post the graph.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 12:35 PM

the FED just became the world’s largest holder of treasuries a couple days ago.

i think that’s big news.

the FED, in theory, could be the last buyer, buy all treasuries from China, Japan, etc and give us one big loan mod. 

Repercussions on value of US dollar and interest rates?

Astute Observation by Chuck Ponzi
2010-11-24 03:37 PM

Debt monetization, we have arrived.

We stubbed our toe on the Japan syndrome.  Deflation’s a bitch.

chuck

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 04:43 PM

are we japan?

Astute Observation by tazman
2010-11-24 09:38 AM

China is NOT committed to a “strong dollar policy” it is committed to a “strong renmenbi (yuan) policy.”  This is evident when you realize that they have not revalued the renmenbi (it trades at a fixed 8 renmenbi/dollar) even though the dollar has declined and the Chinese are under tremendous pressure to devalue the renmenbi…perhaps some basic fact checking would strengthen your arguments…

Astute Observation by CapitalismWorks
2010-11-24 10:41 AM

Wrong. All currencies trade in pairs. China’s peg to the dollar at a value ~30-40% below FMV is a WEAK yuan policy.

Astute Observation by Anonymous
2010-11-24 10:30 AM

If those abroad sell US treasuries, they still need to Park their money somewhere. Where to park it? In Asia with the Korean thing going on? In Europe with the Greece, Ireland, and maybe Portual and Spain thing going on?  Buy gold at sky high prices?
Buying some US asset (Treasuries, stocks, or real-estate) doesn’t look so bad by comparison.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 11:09 AM

China, Russia quit dollar
By Su Qiang and Li Xiaokun (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-11-24 08:02

St. Petersburg, Russia – China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.

Chinese experts said the move reflected closer relations between Beijing and Moscow and is not aimed at challenging the dollar, but to protect their domestic economies.

“About trade settlement, we have decided to use our own currencies,” Putin said at a joint news conference with Wen in St. Petersburg.

Astute Observation by broken-record
2010-11-24 11:54 AM

LOL - oh no not again.  This is urgent !

Astute Observation by Gemina13
2010-11-26 01:22 PM

They don’t have much choice.  China’s facing its own real estate bubble and the very real prospect of rising inflation.  Russia’s commodity-based economy isn’t so hot either.  Either they try to keep their currency from rising, or they watch their economies implode.

Astute Observation by Soylent Green Is People
2010-11-24 11:44 AM

Once clear direction in the market is found (not peaks and valley as we’re seeing today) base mortgage rates will again come down to the lows seen in mid October. The Fed isn’t going to let mortgage rates rise and kill off any meaningful recovery. Those who do refinance are putting most of their monthly savings into the bank or paying off debt. People aren’t spending it as we did in the past, but at some point those savings and that monthly cash will translate into spending.

Will be interesting to see what the real numbers are for Black Friday and the remainder of Christmas. Unfortunately CNBC and their ilk will compare 2009 (terrible) to 2010, when we really should average spending over time to see if we are spending more or simply treading water. My guess is that we’re treading water. Most of the economic news today (Durable Goods, etc) was absolutely terrible. Sure, consumer confidence was higher what with the election going the way it did, and Unemployment appears to be improved (lot’s of seasonal hiring skewing the numbers) but overall most of the future looking economic news has been less than stellar which translates into stable rates. My guess is a 4.5ish ceiling and a 4.0% floor for some time to come.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2010-11-24 12:05 PM

Once QE2 gets into full swing rates will go lower and head into the 3s.  Note, I’m the only one here who called the low 4s correctly.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 12:15 PM

Yes, you have been telling us that for a long time now and it seems to be the only thing you can point to that you were right about.  Even a broken watch is correct twice per day.

Astute Observation by Planet Reality
2010-11-24 12:24 PM

Don’t get you panties all up in a wad just because you aren’t part of the 30% who continue to get salary increases.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 12:52 PM

Hmm-m-m, must have struck a nerve.

Astute Observation by wheresthebeef
2010-11-24 01:39 PM

Planet Realty, maybe these folks who “own” the featured house today are part of that 30%.  Afterall, Irvine is the upper crust of society. 

Bwahaahaha, keep believing yourself on all this nonsense.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 03:46 PM

PR - On another thread, you said that you were going to sell your gold soon.  Or at least that is what my not so perfect memory thinks you said.

Would be comfortable telling us when you do sell your gold?

Astute Observation by Swiller
2010-11-24 04:32 PM

Wow PR is hated more than me, and I’m an evil defaulter who is personally responsible for all of your personal pain.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 04:51 PM

PR, i will buy your overvalued gold.  Now is a great time to sell because the price is high.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 12:51 PM

after calling high 3s, you’ll be calling mid 3s, then low 3s… ad nauseum.

the keynesian fix is short-term, childish, and full of unintended consequence.

Short-term you might be right.  Long-term you will be wrong.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-11-24 02:14 PM

And in the longterm, we’re all…

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 04:50 PM

...not retiring if we invest for deflation.

Take the keynes quotes to a realtor blog.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-11-24 05:24 PM

For the record, I’m not a Keynesian - just thought that quote was perfect for the “longterm” comment. smile

Astute Observation by norcal
2010-11-24 04:53 PM

Hello Soylent.  I’m surprised that you even watch CNBC, given that you’re such a regular commentator on Calculated Risk - which will likely give the long-term trends and comparisons you recommend.

BTW, I enjoy your Bank Failure haikus on CR.

Astute Observation by Soylent Green Is People
2010-11-24 05:27 PM

Thanks for the kind words. Quite a bit of kabuki theater going on in the banking sector. May as well join the fun with a bit of Japanese poetry, eh? 

I only watch CNBC with the sound off. The scrolls are sometimes better reading than those on Bloomberg, although I often consider Jim Cramer a contraindicator of what’s going on. When JC says it’s a great day to buy X, make sure to bet against it.

Astute Observation by awgee
2010-11-24 10:37 PM

What a crack up!  That is how I watch it.  Unless I see Santelli.

Astute Observation by Perspective
2010-11-24 12:21 PM

I think the new buzz-word in 2011 will be “frugality fatigue.”  You’re starting to hear it now.  Those people fortunate enough not to have suffered income disruption over the past few years have been spending much less, but it gets progressively harder to resist upgrading the TV, laptop, or car.

Astute Observation by irvine_home_owner
2010-11-24 03:42 PM

Hey… it’s not gonna matter after 2012 (if you’re Mayan)... you might as well spend it while you have it.

Astute Observation by matt138
2010-11-24 05:00 PM

“frugality fatigue” is bull.

the bailout suckers rallies in stocks and real estate will end and price declines will resume.

if the powers that be choose to put a floor on RE and stock prices via infinite stimulus printing, we will see asset prices stabilize and the price of everything else rise substantially.

the true measure of value is pricing things in a fixed basket of commodities.  that will indicate a true bottom in asset prices.

We are nowhere near the bottom.

Astute Observation by jed clampett
2010-11-24 06:57 PM

“it gets progressively harder to resist upgrading the TV, laptop, or car.”

no it don’t ; the picture box is working fine as is the horseless carriage

Astute Observation by Gemina13
2010-11-26 01:26 PM

Unless, of course, you can’t afford it, your rent, your groceries, and your utilities—and you’re renting.

“Frugality fatigue” doesn’t take into account that circumstances can, and sometimes do, change quickly for people who either are, or merely think they are, well-off.  I don’t see anything in the way of job creation happening in 2011 that would even give that media meme roller skates, let alone wings.

Astute Observation by norcal
2010-11-24 04:57 PM

IR, I’m surprised you didn’t grade this home-debtor an F.  What more would s/he have to do to earn that grade?

Astute Observation by Gemina13
2010-11-26 01:33 PM

I’ve been away for a while (things got crazier than usual), but I had to come back to see what latest insanity had made it to this blog.

This house is a total fricking nightmare. smile  It’s also a great example of how people went nuts at the thought of “free” money.

My brother is a contractor.  Recently he did some work for a couple who live in Scottsdale, in a home they bought back in 2006, just off the peak.  The last inspection revealed that, among other things, the previous owners had taken out the insulation from several of the rooms, taped the drywall back, and repainted so nothing showed—the inspector only noticed it because he kept hearing a sound like wind blowing through a window.  The house they bought for $360K has cost them an additional $80K in repairs—and the house itself has lost value to the point where they’re almost 50% underwater.  They can’t refinance.  They’re stuck.

Luckily they have the money to pay for it, but they told my brother that if they didn’t have the funds, they wouldn’t have bothered with any repairs—they’d have focused on shoveling cash towards the mortgage to get it off their backs.

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