can you tell me how you define ‘‘equity burn’‘?

love your blog.

The reno must be recent because google street view shows what the original home looked like.  You can be sure which one it is because of the fence to the left in the new picture.

Most likely some bank loaned the owners the $ for this project, and ‘should’ have a better idea of worthiness of an investment.  But then again people were getting millions of VC money in the 90’s to do any project that could generate a .com.

This 5/6 home for a 3-generation family might be a profitable idea if it were in the hood of the same.

Or, it might have worked as well if the bubble had continued to inflate.

I live literally up the street from a cluster of similar monstrosities in Dallas.  I agree that some homes are overimproved by their owners (not far from this cluster is a house that was literally built to resemble the castle at Disneyland, complete with little banners on the parapets, and I keep joking about using it to recreate the Battle of Helm’s Deep from Lord of the Rings), but these were nothing but architect and developer ego projects.  My next door neighbor is an architect, and he relates that a lot of these abominations were built with the idea of showing off what the developers could do.  Back when the boom was going on, they could always find someone with more money than brains who was willing to buy these abortions, and I’ve seen enough horrible McMansions in the Dallas area to agree.  Unfortunately, though, the music stops, everybody else grabs a chair, and the developers either eat the costs of the property taxes and maintenance “until the market gets better” or they bulldoze it and sell the lot.

Interestingly, I don’t know if you’re seeing this in Irvine, but another phenomenon I’ve been seeing in Dallas is with the phantom property.  Shortly after the bust hit, I expected to see a few empty lots in high-end neighborhoods from where someone bought up a good but older house with the intent of demolishing it and replacing it with a zero-lotline yuppie nightmare.  I see a lot of those these days, complete with “Coming Soon!” or “Reduced Price!” signs in the middle of the lot.  However, I’m now also seeing a lot of houses that are coming down and the lot seeded with grass.  I suspect that someone’s decided that they’ll never sell the houses for the price that Some Guy told them they were worth, and figured that paying the property tax on an empty lot until the market clears up would be cheaper than having to haggle about a house that doesn’t have the latest improvements.  If this has hit Irvine as well, I’d like to know.

I assume 10% per year decline in property prices (which has proven to be conservative). Take 10% of the asking price and divide it by 12, and the resulting number will the monthly loss of equity on the property. I make this calculation because so many people during the bubble purchased because they believed they could afford the payment. Most believed their “investment” was going to be worth more so they were getting a great return on their money. The equity burn shows the additional cost of ownership in a declining market. At some point, the equity burn will stop and reverse, but this may be a long time off, and the burn may be quite painful.

On Monday, joeyp posted a link to this property in Turtle Rock. Yet another McMansion.

Great video but the embedding is disabled.

.

To quote Bill Handel “typical Persian Palace”.

You could also take the most recent months for which you have numbers and calculate the equity burn.  For a 3-6 month time horizon using the CS high tier, it’s 1.7-2.2% decline per month.

Alternatively, if there are similar rentals nearby, you could show the monthly cash spread between ownership costs and rental.  You could call this “Ownership cost premium” or “Money thrown away on ownership”.  I’m sure there are more colorful names for it too.

Does Bush live in the one that looks like Disneyland?

You could also total the equity burn + the additional cash cost of ownership.

You think you get hate mail now from realtors, that would get you even more.

That’s quite the fort they have going there.

I am expecting to see a bunch of polygamist women running around in 19th century attire.

It would also be perfect for a cult - the mothership will have ample room to land on the roof to take everyone away.

Does the buyer get a magic carpet to go with this “Palace”?

I found another one. It should work now.

Great photochop. That captures it.

Hey IR, MR made mention of the hate mail you must get from RE agents and home owers. Any chance of talking you into publishing some of the choice bits for our amusement and discussion? You must have some favorites.

This ugly house doesn’t look like a palace at all… it looks like a mini version of high rises…

“equity burn + cash premium to own”

I like it.

That’s my favorite one David!!! ROFL!

If you look up the address with Google Maps you can see what the home looked like prior to the renovations as well as get a feel of the neighborhood.  Definitely overimproved compared to the surrounding homes.  This neighborhood was going for $250,000 to $300,000 in the late 90s.

I like this one too.  Something about this house just makes you want to smile.

I cannot help but crack a sh*t-eating grin when I look at it.

This house’s price is in the same neighborhood as Monday’s post? Wow.

Hmm, tough decision: gorgeous craftsman in 92603 our square stucco box in 92604?

The median income in 92603 is nearly 2.3x that in 92604 ($151k vs. $66k in 2004).

I’m somewhat surprised that the description doesn’t include “low maintenance front yard!” or rather “lo maint f yd!!!!” I guess I should say.

This neighborhood was going for $250,000 to $300,000 in the late 90s.

Can you imagine what your neighbors would think of you for living in a house like this?  You would certainly be thought of as a vain and pretentious little wannabe prick trying to show-up everyone else in the neighborhood.

I can just picture the looks as you drive by in your Hummer H2 or Escalade.  Waving and smiling as you drive by and then saying to themselves “What an a**hole - I hope a meteor lands on that place while he is inside.”

Whoever moves into this place is going to have to be able to make themselves believe that the neighbors are “just jealous” of their wonderfulness.

Is that an FLDS compound?

Talk about zero curb appeal.  The front yard is 100% driveway.  It’s shocking that Irvine would allow something like this.

Weak HOA’s in this area so I could see it happening.

Definitely zero curb appeal.  And I bet the lot size quoted was before the renovations were done.  I bet the lot size now is barely 5k if that.

I am a renter in Irvine, and have just been watching the housing market in this area. This property was featured on Yahoo Real Estate about 2 months ago, it was listed for $399K (obvious error…but I didn’t realize that since no pictures were provided on the website). So I actually drove around the neighborhood to find the place, the main motivation was that I was surprised an Irvine single family property could be $400K.
Until I arrived, I was quite sure I was wrong! When compared with the neighboring properties, this place is like a giant in a world of Oompa-Loompas. It’s just so misplaced.

Did anyone else notice the ugly mural over the fireplace and how the glass slider has the same shity window treatment as the mural?  I like the view of a blank wall better that some ugly mural.

Unless they expand the structure then it reduces the existing lot size.  I’ve seen this a lot in beach communities where land is at a premium and people need to expand the original beach cottage.

Notice there are no pics of the backyard…

neuvo?

More than 2/3 of actual sales in Ventura County and the San Fernando Valley are now either short sales or foreclosures.  http://effectivedemand.blogspot.com/2009/04/short-sale-foreclosure-for-san-fernando.html

Has anyone seen similar stats for OC?

While lot size doesn’t change with renovations, it would be interesting if yard size was quoted in listings.  With aerial views, you can probably do this for most houses now.

Can we send the Grasspave representative over to this house?  You can have a driveway which contains lawn.

Definitely take a moment and look at the streetview in the Redfin listing to get a sense of the neighboring homes.  It reminds me of that bit on Sesame street when I was a kid… “One of this is not like the other….”  LOL

The picture of the front does not show how ridiculously over sized this house is compared to the neighborhood.  It is a pie shaped lot with a pie shaped house on it.  It gets wider and wider as it go back.

Nice of them to cement over the front yard for parking since there is no curb parking left in front of the house.  I bet its occupants will be using up all the parking in front of all their neighbors houses.  That will be why no one will like them or talk to them.

My favorite Kron’s castle story is from the 80’s.  The city was going to take the property due to safety issues.  Hearing the owners story, a bunch of strippers and their bar customers volunteered to make the repairs.  I am sure there was some quality work done that day.

Damn, typing too fast today… “One of these things is not like the other…”  You will remember it if you saw it.  Classic Sesame Street.

Great idea!  These are spreads like any other on Wallsteet.  When spreads are narrow things are stable.  When spreads are wide then things are not stable…

B

19522 Sierra Soto Rd, 92603

Just for kicks, another overbuilt beast asking 1.4M

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/19522-Sierra-Soto-Rd-92603/home/4740056

“Imagine the possibilities of such exquisite luxury without the luxury price!”

Am I the only one who still considers $1,399,000 a luxury price?

Nouveau? Nouveaux?

No view, no pool—-it’s another WTF price—These people are insane. They are hoping for someone else to not only pay for all the improvements that they like but to over pay. And Irvinemom that home in TR is even more insane—it’s a old house fixed up—and that is what it is.

Somewhere I heard some advice I am going to try and heed when/if I ever buy a house.

It’s better to have the crappiest house in a nice neighborhood than the nicest house in a crappy neighborhood.

Currently I rent in an average-to-crappy neighborhood.  I think a fair price for most of the houses in my neighborhood would be under $300k.  Some fools built about 8 brand new houses at the end of my street a few years ago.  They just finished building the last one within the past few months.  We walked through during the open house.  It was nice enough inside, but they are asking $560k.  I don’t care how nice the house is, you still have to drive down our street with all the crappy old cars.  You still have the above-ground utility lines.  You still have the scummy neighbors.  I am very curious to see what this house finally sells for.

My mom lives in the crappiest house in an upscale suburban Chicago neighborhood. It’s actually a wonderful mid-century house, top-of-the-line back in the day, with 3 acres of yard. Hers is the only original 1960s ranch left on a street of 2000s MacMansions. This is great for when you go to sell, not so great for the taxes you pay every year.

Yes, I should have said usable lot size or yard size as you mentioned.

I can almost bet that the 8k lot size they’re quoting is not all “usable” anymore as the majority is taken up by the new, expanded structure.

My husband walked through it and said it felt like it was renovated for several generations of a family to live together.

I would like to offer full asking price for this house.

APRIL FOOLS!!!

(Hat tip to Trooper).

Doesn’t surprise me…lots of multi-generational homes in Irvine.  This one is definitely large enough.

Yep. exactly my thoughts.

This is a “Persian Palace”.

Typically out of place, with lots of marble and a WTH attitude.

Actually I like it.  I could grew my mustache and wave at the people on the street from the second story front veranda.

Come on, let’s get serious.  Not all of Irvine needs to be so damn serious.  HOAs and what not.

Agree that from a financial standpoint a Persian Palace makes no sense, but dudes… it’s kind of nice in its own way.

The LA Times carried an article on Persian Palaces last year.  It was fun.

Long time lurker, first time posting.
Below is a MS Live Search Maps view of this house.  It gives a real perspective of how huge this home is compared to others on the same street.  Be sure to use the rotate button to get the full effect!

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?cp=33.694744~-117.776445&style=b&dir=0&sp=Point.33.694744_-117.776445_4931 Karen Ann Ln, Irvine, CA 92604_$1,399,000 5 beds, 6.0 baths

You sir are an ethnically challenged fool!

No Hummers for a Persian Palace… justa couple of S-Class benzes.  Perhaps some camels for the domestic help coming up from Woodbury.

Did you note the front entry courtyard?  That’s were you plant the date palms.

City ordinance mandates that only 50% of the lot can be covered by the house and garage.

If the house is 5000 sq feet and is partly over the garage then you can guess that the backyard is still on the large side for Irvine.

Crammed in like a sardine can.

Good story on Kron’s castle

http://articles.latimes.com/p/1997/oct/05/local/me-39539

Oh yeah, I’d meant to mention that yesterday’s NIN - “Down In It” video also doesn’t allow embedding.

Just be sure your wife / girlfriend grows her mustache out too. 

(No offense to Persian women—I think many of them are strikingly beautiful, but I saw one young woman at the market with her boyfriend a couple of days ago whose mustache was so thick I couldn’t help but stare.)

BTW, I am so stoked that GM is being forced to try to unload or drop their Hummer brand.  (Also ecstatic that the slimeball Hummer-driver that lived at my IAC complex until recently got evicted.  )

So you are saying Irvine needs more McMansions?

Thanks for the link—that had been brought up in the comments here before and I didn’t know what people were talking about (I thought people were talking about Beth Krom’s house, mistaking Kron for Krom).

I get surprisingly little hate mail. I think most of them try to ignore me and wish I would go away.

Why is that?  I thought property taxes were only based on the value of your own property, not surrounding ones.

Someone else emailed me about that one this morning. I just had time to correct it now. I should stay with English…

IR, “neuvo” -> “nouveau”.

Nice Kilroy reference—haven’t seen one in a few years. 

From the trashed-out $2M REO story:

“Some previous occupants deposited feces on counter tops or in the middle of the living room floor … Sometimes home owners turn on all the water faucets and plug up the drains before departing.”

Ugh.  That’s why I would never be completely comfortable buying a foreclosed property.  If the owners were irresponsible enough to take on a massive debt they couldn’t afford, what other effects did their irresponsibility have on the property?  Of course a house inspector can turn up obvious issues, but I’d always be afraid to have a room that (once the realtor-supplied air fresheners wore off) had a mysterious stench you could never quite get rid of…

OMG!
I had never heard of the Castle at Kron.  Here is a link to see this “comp”:

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=pmfhxp55j6zz&style=b&lvl=2&tilt;=-90&dir=0&alt;=-1000&scene=32022374&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

(I’ll leave it to David to post a pic for this)

Thanks for providing the link and for putting up the image.

Nyet Tovarich…

I’m saying that an 1600/2000 sq foot home on a 5200 sq foot lot no longer makes financial sense.

It’s very easy to bump such a house to 2500/3000 sq feet and still not end up with a McMansion.

Example, my chateau and some of my neighbors… our homes are definitely not McMansions but they are 5b/3ba+ homes.  A McMansion is something that is simply out of order to the lot and neighbors, our homes are not and they do not overwhelm the neighbors either.

Oh yeah, there are whole Irvine neighborhoods that are McMansions… Woodbury, Quail Hill, most of Turtle Ridge… in essence anything built in the last ten years…

For more information on the Kron Castle, see the post from July 2007, I Want My HOA.

They will appraise you house based on the value of houses in the surrounding neighborhood. Ask yourself what a small, two-bedroom cottage is worth in Laguna Beach, and you will see what I mean.

Also includes another gratuitous sign of taste: meaninglessly complex walls and roofline.  Nothing like fragmenting the space to make it difficult to reconfigure, or actually use.

Wow, almost an identical arrangement as today’s property.  Thanks, DrakoneSmith and AZDave for digging up those aerial views.

I see.  Thank you for the explanation.

At least that courtyard in the middle allows for some private sunning in this land of no backyard privacy.

Thanks AZ.

Confirms my belief that most of the yard has been swallowed up by this thing.

No wonder there’s no pics of the backyard.

This is a sign of the implosion of the nouveau riche:

Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines.

I live down the street from this house and having renovated/rebuilt my house in ‘03, there is no HOA in our neighbourhood and frankly I was shocked at how easy it was to get the plans approved.  As a result, you end up with homes like this.

Apparently, from the open house this past weekend, the current owners are Syrian.  Not that it’s here nor there.  Heh.

ugly, ugly house.  As to the small yard - in a few years (think 6 or 7) Southern Californians will not be allowed to have private lawns on their properties.  So maybe this guy is just forward thinking?

The 2 million dollar REO look like it was in the middle of a remodeling job.  No floor was under the tub.  You can see the downstairs from the top floor—does look up to code to me.  Mold on the wall is an indication of a water leak.

I like McManisons.  They are very comfortable—usually better insulation and HVAC than old houses.  Lots of storage space too.  I rented one for less than what I’m now paying for a small box in Irvine.

I got to admit there was little taste on this one.

I wonder how it got past the HOA?  It looks like they didn’t use an architect and went directly for the space.  They have the original galley styled kichen… which makes little sense for a home this large.

Check out the ovens in the kitchen… but it does have the prerequisite granite counters.

I would love to know how this got through the planning stages and zoning boards? Does perfect Irvine have such laws? We do in Florida. This ugly house makes the entire neighborhood look bad. WTF were these people thinking?

Yes, I knew where you were going with your argument, but when I first read your statement, it sounded like an endorsement of these big ugly monsters popping up all over town.

That is an interesting idea. This property would probably get Leeds Certification and awards for xeriscaping.

“Undesirable neighborhood”.  Really?  I know this is an older part of Irvine, with clear working class roots, but what makes the neighborhood undesirable?  This house is an abomination, but I don’t think the neighborhood is undesirable at all.

No, I do not live in this neighborhood, but I am familiar with it.  It also had (closed or closing) a very desirable year-round elementary school in the same neighborhood and is walking distance to a desirable high school (not the best in Irvine, but great overall).

I love the blog, but that seemed extremely snobbish.

Yeah right, for about 20 minutes each day in the summer when the sun is at a perfect perpendicular angle to the ground.

That may sound like good advice, but consider this: If you buy the crappiest house in the best neighborhood, you could be overpaying for a crappy house. You are after all paying a premium for the best neighborhood.

Following that train of thought, if you buy the best house in a crappy neighborhood, you’re underpaying for the neighborhood and getting a nice house for cheaper.

The question is, whats more important…a nice house, or a nice neighborhood?

Interesting.  I guess BoatAngel.com (AKA CarAngel.com), who has lots of billboards around here suggesting you donate your unused boat, doesn’t operate in those states.

LOL!  Looks like three crappy homes collided.

Heh.  Yeah, I almost mentioned the angle issue since I thought someone might say that.  You will notice I said “*some* private sunning”. 

Still, better than no private yard at all.

i don’t care much for the subject house but i love the look of that block looking house you call a monstrosity.  to each his own.

Word.  There’s way too little modern architecture in local housing, IMHO.

I don’t understand why most bloggers are knocking this house.  Yes, it is oversized for the neighborhood.  Yes, it is very ugly.  But aren’t 80% or more of Irvine properties just as ugly?  Most are simply too big for their lots.  Others look like a public storage facilities.  And still others look more like simple garages which happen to have a kitchen and a couple bathrooms.  My wife and I tried really hard to find a home in Irvine, but have yet to find one we both like.  We will be leaving Irvine after our lease ends.  Just my 2 cents.

And its better fro run-off and the environment.

Over in Europe they are giving tax credits if you install the grasspave driveway instead of concrete/brick pavers.

I bought the nicest house in my neighborhood about 5 years ago.  This was right at the beginning of the ‘gentrification’ of the neighborhood, so I took a bit of a gamble on a spec house in a neighborhhod I knew I wanted to live in.  Also, the house and the rate fit our needs perfectly.
My gamble worked, the neighborhood has transformed around us, and I still see listings for almost double what I paid, for not that much more house. Of course, these days the listings are sitting a lot longer than they used to.

nah all that concrete would provide too much run off unless he has rain cisterns or porous pavement.  But maybe i just worry about my kids being able to drink water to much, at least they’ll always have Gatorade (<- brilliant movie)

Interesting.  I wasn’t familiar with grass pavers or the Heat Island Effect they can help to mitigate (see http://www.epa.gov/heatisland/.  Thanks for the reference.

::dies laughing::  Oh, good job!