Adding a home theatre does not add an additional 700K in value to a house.  Someone has been watching too much ‘Flip This House’.

450K is my maximum offer.

Just goes to show why when you think of real estate investing you need to have a long term view, like 10 years for these people.  In the long run you can get rich slowly in real estate, it is when you start thinking you can get rich quick that the problems come.

BTW in the comps on the redfin pages looks like competition down the street at 53 Legacy way for $850k/$231 sq ft?  No pool and looks a bit tired, but not sure if the pool adds $130k.  On market after someone paid $1.05 million in Mar 2007 and pix don’t show alot of investment in the house.  Seems that property could make it hard for today’s post who did the right thing to be thwarted by what one suspects is a short sale down the street.

Ouch!
I’d say $600K.

AZDavid,

This home is almost 4,000 square feet.  At $450K that prices it about $130 or so per foot.  A monster discount over replacment costs. 

I find your comments are often funny and insightful, but today you’re either just being stupid or your a trolling douche.

Thats all.

IR,

I like todays topic and select home a lot better than the subject of the last two days.  The other two smacked of sexisim even though I know you didn’t intend any.  I’m at a loss as how to ridicule those who deserve it, point out the parties’ are a different demographic, and still not look like a pig, so I guess you did the best you could.

I recall when 53 Legacy came on the market, it had huge traffic; much attention. Yet it just recently got into escrow. It may not compare to 24 Tioga in showing to prospective buyers, but it will certainly affect the ability to finance the purchase of 24 Tioga.

I’d second the 600k. (near the bottom)

It’s big, and the pool is fabulously fun, but it’s boxy and not fancy or upscale in anyway. It’s just not million dollar style. I think their price is a little unrealistic even for now, but any potential buyers will know what they paid for it and be able to negotiate if they’re seriously interested in the property.

I’ll go out on a limb and say it sells for $890k within 1 month, or $800k within 3 months.

Thanks for the relatively light-hearted post today IR.

“stupid or a trolling douche”????

wouldn’t it have been sufficient to simply note that you thought David was wrong, particularly since you noted that you otherwise find his posts of interest to you???

Good note about those who bought more RE.

Speculator/Investor/Gambler rule - never double down on a hot OR cold market when the itch overtakes you.  That’s when greed/fear threaten to overtake judgement and expose you to a real trip to the cleaners.

These people must not have known how to use TIVO.  They apparently meant to TIVO one of those home decorating shows but instead recorded The Sopranos, because that is apparently what they based their entire home decor scheme on.

It is the home owners with lots of equity that will bring the home prices crashing down. People that purchased before 1998 and can have a nice profit by selling at 2001 prices. These sellers will appear next year and will facilitate a major correction in home prices.

I personlly thought the post on women was very well written.  I have seen some extremely sexist statements made on the boards here but I thought IR handled the issue very well.  Women do need a wake up call that they need to learn how to handle finances.  The most sexist thing is for women or men to assume that men are better at finances.  Women need to get out there and get themselves educated on thier money.

Were you planning on buying the furnishings with the house?

Agreed totally. Otherwise, I’ll jump in next year at $700k.

This DOES look like a really fun place to live. The architecture of the house is not great, but the “playground” and inside rec features are just great.

And, like you say, they have equity.

So, I have only 2 questions to ask these people:

Why are you selling after you went to all this effort and expense to build yourself a private amusement park?

And, why is there some unwritten rule that you should sell just because prices are declining, if you have plenty of equity and you love your place?

I mean, I am buying for HOME, for the ideal little place I can shovel love and beautiful materials into, and know that I will always be able to enjoy it. It’s always been a given that you never recover all the money you spend on snazzy upgrades when you go to sell, so you are doing it for your own enjoyment apart from whatever profit you might hope to make. So why do all this just to ditch and run when you have no financial need to do so?

Maybe.

And if the NYT hadn’t done an article about trolling I probablly wouldn’t of written it that way.  Go google /b/ and read it yourself.

His photoshops have value.

His posts don’t interest me in the least.  IMO, they are mostly noise.  This one is particularly off base.  He’s either baiting (trolling) or just being retarded.  If prices in Irvine fell to $130 a foot that would put North and Central OC values at 50-75 a foot. 

I’m not nearly as conspiricy theroist as some, but at $130 a foot we’re in armageddon/GD2 territory and frankly that’s just dumb.

And they’ve probably lived here while the majority of the time the home was under some type of renovation/construction.  Maybe they can’t think of anything else to add/re-do, and they’re now bored?

Economists are only projecting another 20-30% before bottom in 1-2 years, that would put the bottom of this home between $700-$800K, which is like $180/sq ft.

They’ve lived there for 10 years, hardly work that hasn’t been enjoyed.

One would assume they’re selling for the normal reasons, change of job, retirement, time to downsize, the “fun house” lifestyle no longer suits them. I mean people do sell houses even without the bubble money gains to be made.

Though their asking price does suggest they want to make a pretty penny.

Lots of reasons they may need to sell: New job in another city, kids that are off to college and the current owners realize that if they don’t sell now, they might not get the same price for many years, or many others.

If this was a 700,000 I think I would snap it up. Looks like a fun place for the kids.

He needs to whack off 80k and he would sell in 2 weeks.

Guess what’s more boring?  Reading ad hominem posts attacking other commenters, particularly ones using the tired phrase “douche”.  What are you, thirteen?  Frankly, I find AZDavid’s posts infinitely more entertaining and/or interesting than tripe like your comment.

Ipop and I discussed this house in the forums last week.
This place is nice and spacious.
The backyard and pool would make entertaining a blast.
In general, it has a great overall feel along with a low price/square foot number.

The knock on it according to Ipop is the location.
Apparently, the area is inferior due to the fact that there’s no HOA to maintain quality.
Something along those lines is what he mentioned. 
I’m not familiar with West Irvine, but Ipop owned and continuous to live there.

Looking at the overhead view, you see how the designer must have struggled to shoehorn that pool into the little patch of back yard before the next house. It may not be that great a place, once you have seen it up close a couple of times and tried to live with it.

It really does not look anything like a million dollar house to me, unless you’ve got to have a pool and media room and don’t feel like putting one in yourself, for a lot less than the mark-up of a plain but oversized house for it’s lot. Maybe saving on the hassles and construction mess makes it worthwhile to someone.

Let’s not forget the post of a few days ago: emotion plays a role (as it should, since who cares if you have another few thousand dollars if you’re miserable)

I like the place. But, I’m a HUGE fan of pool hardscaping. For ME, that pool adds more value than it does for other people.

The $/sqft isn’t TOO bad, but it’s a large house. Given how tight banks are getting, I’m thinking this will have to come down, just because nobody will have the 20% AND the banks will want a HUGE rate on a 750K loan.

Tripe?  Quit it.

You sincerely think SFR prices are going to $130 a foot in semi-costal SoCal?

I’m as bearish as they come, but come on.  The premise is just dumb.  Why attack me for pointing it out?  I’m certain David knew it was dumb when he wrote it.

BTW, you’re a douche for feeding the troll.

How much you think at the bottom?  $125 a foot?  $120?

[/scarcasm]

You can’t buy a home in Fresno for $130 a foot a decade ago.

I see the invitation has been sent.

http://www.firstteam.com/AgentProfile.aspx?agt=683

I decided not to respond yesterday because I value controlling my blood pressure.. It is indeed sexist for IR to have assumed that men(or women) are better at finances and to have structured a whole post around that theory (along with a tired, old “PC” slam). I’ve known just as many men as women who spend, save, invest like morons. The housing crisis was not caused by single women buying homes on their own. Sorry - that dog don’t hunt.

Never buy the nicest or biggest house in the neighborhood IMHO.  I’d rather have the smallest home in a more upscale, well cared for, more premium area than the biggest most upgraded place in the tract… 

Homes in this area, Legacy, are hit-or-miss.  Some pride of ownership, but some thrahsers as well.  The short sale on Legacy, right around the corner from this house, had been a room-by-room rental.  There are some larger rental party houses in this neighborhood.  Lots of cars whizzing around the streets there and not necessarily all drivers concerned about the safety of little ones playing outside.

And Ten my man, I bailed West Irvine on my rental.  I live in the Walnut area now…  Woohoo, 1.5 miles closer to the beach!

I drove by this place to look at it a couple of weeks back. Not a bad neighborhood, just not the nicest in Irvine. Left me with a bland feeling considering they’re asking just under a mil. I wouldn’t pay that to live in that neighborhood.

Sorry, didn’t know you’ve moved.
My point was since you lived there, you’d know the market/area better than anyone else.
53 Legacy Way still has yet to close, Is that correct?

Walnut and Culver, are you in that area now?

It looks good, but I think the operative word is over-improved.  Kind of like putting $3000 rims on a 90s, SUV.

Without the improvements, I suspect the actual resulting sales price would be about the same.  Maybe even higher is they have a nice swath of green with a couple fruit trees in back providing shade and room to romp.

If they didn’t improve, I wonder if they would be selling?  Are they selling because of the profit?  Where they going? 

The pool looks nice, for a one week vacation.  I think I’d rather have a yard that the dog can use.

I see expense, lots and lots of on going expense.  Does this have HOAs fees to pay for the tennis courts, park and I’m assuming a community pool somewhere?  I also see maintenance.  I suppose the media room is nice, but really, how often do you use a media room?  Does it end up like a formal dining room that needs dusting every week and gets used for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner with guests and when you socialize other times, everybody hangs in the kitchen and pool?

Also, this isn’t semi-coastal.  This is foothill flatlands.  It’s right up by Portola Parkway.

Still, smart of the owners to get out. With the buyers out there, they are the drivers.  They are the small segment of sellers that want to and can sell.

No name calling please.

Yeah kinda, more like Walnut and Jamboree though…

53 Legacy has not updated on MLS with a close price so I assume it hasn’t closed yet.

No HOA, no tennis courts, city park around the corner next to the elementary school, and no pool.

Simi costal = not Corona/Chino Hills/Murietta/Temecula.

I used to live in Chino Hills.  It was wonderful.  Until you needed to drive somewhere.  Like work.

I’d consider North County semi-costal.

Sorry I wasn’t more specific.

Very Nice!
Good luck,seems like a nice area.
Are you in Tustin Fields or is that College Park?
Still trying to sort out the different neighborhoods.

It seems that many here ignore the simple fact that the ultimate determinant of what a house is worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone is willing to pay 1 million for this house today then that means it’s worth 1 million. If the most someone will pay is 600k then that means it’s worth 600k. We can sit back say we think this house is worth 500k but the bottom line is if someone offers 1 million then that means it’s worth 1 million.

The quality of comments on this board sure has fallen of late.

I will buy this house if the price drops down to $650k.

This place would make a great IHB clubhouse. Think of the parties in the backyard!  You could do quite a cannonball into the pool from the 2nd story deck.  Since it is a WT neighborhood, we probably don’t have to worry about the neighbors calling the cops.

Maybe we should all kick in a little and buy 3% down FHA, and then never make a payment. We’d have at least 300 days to party before they came to kick us out.

Jim,

Your “ultimate determinant” logic of “worth” being whatever the herd will pay is what drove us into this bubble. People who instead determined “worth” by gaging price against traditional fundamentals saw the insanity and didn’t purchase. They are richer for it. My guess is you did buy and you are an apologist for your faulty reasoning.

When you say “worth” the phrase you are looking for is some form of “sells for”. English is a subtle and extremely flexible language. “Worth” and “sale price” are distinct phrases for a reason, because there are subtle but important differences in meaning.

“It is indeed sexist for IR to have assumed that men(or women) are better at finances”

That was never assumed or stated in the post.

“The housing crisis was not caused by single women buying homes on their own.”

That was never assumed or stated either.

I apologize if the the content upset you. However, it appears you were upset by things that were not in the post, and I don’t feel responsible for that.

A little off-topic :
I love the IHB, but are you guys aware of any similar blogs chronicling the eventual fall in coastal OC?  I’m particularly interested in Newport Beach, Corona del Mar, and possibly Laguna Beach.
Thanks kindly.

There is one lesson to be learned from today’s house:  quite skillful photography, making good use of wide-angle lenses and point of view to make the rooms look as large as possible—a good trick, because when you realize how many rooms have been put into slightly under 4000 square feet here, the rooms must actually feel considerably smaller than they look in the pictures.  If I were selling my house I would hire whoever did these. Most of the pictures on Redfin that IHB has shown are laughable (fun for snark and Schadenfreude, but it’s instructive to see what a pro can do for your listing).

I disagree completely with your argument.

I personally do not collect things, however, some people do; and will pay a lot of money for things that to me are junk.

You can argue with the market all you want, but ultimately “worth” IS decided by who puts up the cash.

Not true, a person does not make a purchase unless they feel there is “value” or “worth” in it.

Worth, is truly in the eyes and minds of the beholder.

Care to buy my Eggo waffle? It has a picture of the Virgin Mary burned into it.

I initially also had the reaction, oy, I don’t think I want to read whatever comments are dredged up by this post. But it was actually pretty civil. A few posters with individual gripes at ex-wives/girlfriends, but very little in the way of vast generalizations off of individual cases.

And we learned neat stories, like that both women and men had to write there names followed by “an unmarried person” (“spinster”, “an unmarried woman” or “an unmarried man”) at each and every instance on their mortgage. Of course this makes legal sense, it’s important if there’s someone else that can be held responsible for the debt, but it was still humorous.

Not TF or CP.  It’s called Harvard Square. 

Gated community bordered by Harvard, Walnut, and the 5 Freeway built circa ‘98-‘99.

My rental place is a bit smaller version of this lovely short sale candidate:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/22-Arizona-92606/home/4678183

Now thats funny, can we arrange a straw buyer too?

Chris Merritt is a good realtor that has done a ton of business in West Irvine. 

He knows this Legacy area very well and typically represents his sellers quite well…

Camsaven,

“worth” is a broader more general term than sale price. For instance “worth” could be defined by potential cash-flow, it could be the replacement cost, it could be sentimental value, it could be lots of things. And in this bubble “sale price” tended to reflect only “sale price” and have little or nothing to do with any other potential measure of “worth”. Hence, to constrain “worth” to the concept of what some one else will pay for it this instant, is both short-sighted and semantically incorrect. It’s an important distinction, because if we don’t make that distinction we cannot break out of the mindset that led to this bubble of debtors prisons.

Sale price is one possible measure of worth. It is not now, and never will be, the same thing.

It was a lot worse a few weeks ago.  I think we’ve hit bottom, and things will get better from here.

You think his photoshops have value?  I find them as silly and worthless as his comments.

Faulty reasoning?  Would you consider 2002 and 2003 bubble years?  Those years saw around 20% appreciation in home prices.  Sounds bubbly to me…

If this is so, I believe those that did not purchase during early bubble years are actually poorer for the choice, assuming they are/were smart enough to unload their house now, not richer as you suggest…

I bought very early in the bubble cycle and I’m hundreds of thousands of dollars richer for it.  Fortunately I didn’t listen to those people who thought prices had to come back down to earth after running up 50% from 1997-2001…

Condos go for 450… Go buy a house in AZ for 100k if you want one… Irvine ain’t cheap

Damn, I hate it when comments don’t nest correctly.  This is what my post refers to:

“Your “ultimate determinant” logic of “worth” being whatever the herd will pay is what drove us into this bubble. People who instead determined “worth” by gaging price against traditional fundamentals saw the insanity and didn’t purchase. They are richer for it. My guess is you did buy and you are an apologist for your faulty reasoning.”

At the peak this house was valued around $1.25M, if only for a few months, so it already took a 27% haircut, even though at the current asking price, how come a a house can “appreciate” 260% in 10 years? highly overpriced!

True, but…...

Worth is determined by who is determining it.

And….

Ultimately….

Worth is determined by…......

Whomever puts down the cash. (The sale price)

“Worth” is not a distinct phrase cara.  It’s not a phrase at all…  It’s a noun and an adjective. 

Material or market value is the most common and likely correct definition of worth in the context of almost every discussion one could have on this blog about housing… 

I do agree that material or market value may not be necessarily set by one individual buyer purchasing a home, but rather by the price a group of prospective buyers may bid for a particular house.  If this home has five buyers bidding $900K for it, it is surely “worth” $900K today despite it not being “worth” that much to you…

Just like the housing market?!

Very often, what someone is willing to “pay” is really what someone else is willing to loan.

Changes in credit underwriting standards have meant that a number of people recently made offers in good faith thinking they could get loans.  Some of them even had confirmed amounts from lenders, and then found out either they no longer qualified, or the appraisal was too low.

lol i was just thinking the same thing.  a comment bubble!

It’s not highly overpriced.  I think it will sell, maybe without any big price reductions.  Nothing in that area has sold below $300/sf as yet. 

A 2200sf place not far from this one on a small lot that backed to Jamboree closed for $670K fairly recently.  Smaller houses in this area have been selling for $340-350 per sf. 

This house is almost twice as big as the $670K one, has much better location, landscaping, upgrades, etc.  The extra 1700sf should carry a few hundred thousand dollar premium alone…

If they’ll take it, I’m sure $925K could be had easily for this house.

Why buy a house to do that?  There are plenty of empty ones already sitting around.

Still buying a home as an investment, eh?  Why wouldn’t you buy the nicest home in the neighborhood, provided its a neighborhood you want to live in?  The price is held down by the neighbors (comps), yet you enjoy a home that would have cost you far more elsewhere.  The folks around you are just as nice, perhaps nicer, for not buying into the snob areas. 
I actually did buy the nicest place in my neighborhood.  Been there 20 years, since I like my view of the creek and frontage on a park with golf course, plus being a short bike ride from the beach.  My home is probably worth half what it might be across the creek, since many of my neighbors are former summer cabins; over there, its a VERY upscale development.  Tell me again how paying twice as much to live across the creek would have been better?

4% annual appreciation would put this at 600k. It’s possible that the prices will overshoot on the underside however. Although I think this place has a lot going for it comparing to most places, so it will probably get more than average…

I believe the 20-30% is nationwide, not California? California is way worse than the average, in fact it’s the main bubble state.

Also the economists have been wrong thus far on every single housing prediction they have made, so why are they now suddenly credible? The only people who have been right all along are Peter Schiff and other famous bears, and they predict the prices will overshoot. In California that could mean momentarily wiping out appreciation since ‘98…

And how can the prices bottom in 1-2 years when the Alt-A crisis hasn’t even started yet?

If you are hundreds of thousands of dollars richer for buying a house, then yes something is probably wrong with the picture.

“but the other half of us are trying to gauge what houses will cost when we’re finally in a position to buy.”

Which will be what it is worth then…  I would guess this home will fall to around $700K over the next couple of years.  At that price-level it would be equivalent to a 2002 price and would be probably be cheaper than, or least fairly equal to, renting it assuming a mortgage rate of 8%.

With regards to painting those walls, I repainted four rooms in my rental before I moved it…  Just go for it!  They aren’t gonna kick you out.  Heck, I even changed out a light fixture and put up some different towel bars in the bathrooms.

2 years ago the street Tioga was a double homicide site when a man killed his wife and his mother in-law, the SWAT team came and arrested the man after a brief standoff:

Two women killed; man arrested in Irvine

Hey Graphix!, you are not the only information junkie around, eh!

Using my Google skills I found this in 30 secs.

I have been living around this area: Tustin Ranch/West Irvine for the last 7 years, and this is the last gruesome crime that I remember, before that there was a clerk working at Albertson’s (Culver and Irvine Blvd) that with a sword slashed his manager and a cashier that tried to stop him, he was finally shot by the police, and before that a man committed suicide, his 6 years old daughter was in the same classroom as my daughter, yes it was very sad.

For the current market’s price action, I agree with you.

I know I should let this go, but since I started this argument, I might as well fully explain myself. Please indulge me:

Worth is a potent word. It carries with it the connotation of an “intrinsic” (though not immutable) property, as opposed to price, cash-flow or cost which are primarily extrinsic measures of the intrinsic worth.
Realtors and general bubble-speak co-opted the word “worth” and redefined it to mean only “price” or worse future sale price potential.
I happen to believe that this co-opting of a value laden term like “worth” is important to recognize and expunge from our current vocabulary. Words matter. Word usage matters. It changes how people think about and approach topics.
I know you didn’t mean anything offensive by still refering to price and worth interchangeably, and if at $700k renting and owning would be similarly expensive then the use of the more general term to describe it may be warranted. But I strongly caution against the potentially sloppy use of such a potent word.

My apologies for belaboring this point.

I don’t understand where you get 4% annual appreciation from. I would say it’s much higher on average in Irvine. Also everyone seems to forget about inflation. This house is worth 800k, I would say with the upgrades maybe 850k. But not what they’re asking.

IR,
Are the coastal areas such as Newport and Laguna going to experience the same pricing corrections we are starting to see for Irvine?  It appears that so far their pricing has not change nearly as much.

4% annual appreciation comes from the average rate of rental growth in Orange County. Since this is the fundamental value underpinning residential real estate, it is a good estimate of what appreciation should be. Historical appreciation is not very revealing because it includes bursts of irrational exuberance where prices appreciate wildly followed by crashes like the one we are witnessing now.

The most desirable neighborhoods always fall last. Because the price to rent ratio is so high there, they may actually fall the hardest.

I’m glad some people share my sense of humor.
:D

It’s all a matter of timing and perspective…  The fairly rapid appreciation in the years leading up to 2000-2001 wasn’t bubble, it was a return to fundamentals after an overshoot that bottomed in ‘97.

If you start at January 1990, real appreciation = nominal appreciation in September 2002 for the LA/OC MSA.  So despite the bubbly looking run of home prices during 2002, it wasn’t necessarily really a bubble, just a correction of an over-correction.

If you ran January 1990 prices up through current inflation adjusted, it would suggest nominal prices were 20-25% too high today.

Who’s right or wrong can only be determined when looking backward. And on that count, Peter Schiff has been wrong the whole time. He said in 2002 or so that the housing price increases were unsustainable, yet they kept going up for 3 or 4 years. He’s been calling for a collapse for many years.

So is he right? I don’t know, but he’s certainly been wrong much longer than he’s been right so far. I appreciate the bears. There are too few. But you can’t predict something for years, and then, when it finally happens taking an entire decade in a completely different form than you predicted, take credit saying, “I told you so.” It’s just not credible.

Are you guys aware of any blogs or other sources that track the real estate there?
Thanks.

Nice find rocker.  I remember that night…  The helicopters work me up.  Wonder what happened to the guy and the kids?

Amen.  Predictions will come true if you wait long enough…

I predict home prices will rise.  In 2012 I will become as amazing as Schiff.

You are still wrong.

Go buy a stock, watch it go down, then argue with the market that it is worth more based on “X”

You will lose every time.

LOLs not lulz.

We need more posts like this.

June 2003
Three dead, three wounded in sword attack at Irvine grocery store

Besides these events, where in a gross simplification people caused harm to others that they already know and they have a relationship with, I have not seen the other case, where a complete stranger comes and kills, stabs or hits people that they don’t know anything about, not that I’m longing for that to happen, but certainly Irvine can be an almost crime free city.

No.  You could start one?

Gogogogogogogogogogogo….......

We’re talking past each other here. You cannot seriously argue that “worth” doesn’t have a broader English meaning than price?????

I think I have identified the other half of the problem with this “conversation”. Jargon versus English. In stock terms or in real estate terms worth and price are used interchangeably. That in no way determines or defines “worth” in the common English sense.

The problems arise when stock brokers or real estate brokers say “worth” a homeowner hears meanings that are not implied. And thus a sense of my house is “worth” a million dollars, contributes to the propagation of the kool-aid. Because they’re not hearing “price” their hearing “worth” and thinking that it is intrinsic.

A house is not a stock, the problem is that people have been treating it as such. Hence the inflated prices which are not reflective of their “worth” in terms of use as a dwelling place. Thus my objection.

Price versus worth may seem a distinction without difference to you. However to merge them is a corruption of the English language and (I claim without proof) not one without consequences.

He was charged for the double homicide, the girls left the school.

The killer jumped fences and for a brief period of time the Police couldn’t find him.

Families were evacuated at 3 am! Imaging the Police knocking on your door and asking you to take your family and leave because they couldn’t find a murder suspect!

Wow - 3 sentences ignited a firestorm today!

The usual “Sacred Land” people came out in full force.  I like it.

Go buy the house for 600K, fools.  Retire with 0$ in your savings account. 

Doesn’t bother me.

No vas—>I’m not nearly as conspiricy theroist as some, but at $130 a foot we’re in armageddon/GD2 territory and frankly that’s just dumb.

Armageddon, I agree, GD2 not so sure     Irvine will get hammered like every other city due to loss of jobs, not enough people making incomes to support 1 mil$ homes.

I do agree that Azdavid is out to lunch on this one, I usually agree with him about other McPOS properties.

for this property being close to 4000 sf, I can see people making these kinds of incomes (250k) chosing to buy maybe at 750-800 K given the upgrades+pool and living in holyIRVINE. 

semi-coastal?????   

You want to nit pick someones statement earlier, but you offer no data to support your claim. We all understood his statement to mean exactly what he claimed. You, on the other hand, wanted to correct him. Using worth in the context for which he used the “word” (not term) is completely valid and understood.

The only determining factor of anythings financial “worth” is whatever someone is willing to pay.

Anything else is pure conjecture.

Peter Schiff has NOT been wrong the whole time. If he had said that prices were going to collapse before they went any higher, then he would have been wrong. But he didn’t say that; he said that 2002 prices were unsustainable, which may or may not turn out to be the case. If prices don’t get below 2002 levels he will be shown to be wrong. If prices do go below 2002 he will be shown to have been right.

camsavem—>You can argue with the market all you want, but ultimately “worth” IS decided by who puts up the cash.

funny that you word it that way, as banks are reluctant to put up any cash these days unless it makes sense based on talking to a few people in the biz.

I can say I’ll pay 2 mil for that house but if the bank says 500k guess what? 

Maybe you should have a talk with the people that unloaded on 4000+sf homes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties…  They’ll tell you all about how great is was/is to own an uber nice home in a less premium area.

Ah, my young AZDave, you have much to learn…

Just keeping on tuning in to the IHB.  We’ll get you to where you need to be eventually.

When 4000sf McMansions get down to $100K in Maricopa, that’ll be your green light to buy, buy, buy!