Isn’t $376/sq ft for a fixer upper bordering on WTF territory?
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:36 AM
Posted by cara on 05/05/08 at 05:45 AM
Straw buyer. That’s my favorite picture yet.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:51 AM
It is a WTF even in pristine condition.
This is a simple tract home. Seems like it could be OK - but nothing posh whatsoever.
I am guessing that the people on this side of town had something extra mixed into their Kool-Aid that amplified the hallucinations.
Can you imagine buying this place for peanuts in 1977 and handing it off to some bag-holder idiot for 1.3 million in 2007? Talk about a nice tax-free lotto win.
Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:58 AM
400K sounds about right near the bottom.
Knife catcher will pull the pin around 600K is my guess.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 06:11 AM
I thought Turtle Rock was not going to be affected?
Posted by Hmmmmm on 05/05/08 at 06:31 AM
Wow. I can’t wait to see…
1. What price this house goes for
2. How long it takes to sell.
A lot of cahones to ask for a big price and advertise as a total redo....good luck to ya!
Nobody tell Truthiness. She’ll jump for sure this time.
Posted by Lee in Irvine on 05/05/08 at 07:06 AM
Turtle Rock is the neighborhood were I hope to buy and raise my young children. I am thrilled to see that prices have turned the corner and are headed down like an anvil. And comp killers like this one make my day.
Thanks IHB!
Posted by 7 on 05/05/08 at 07:10 AM
I am always confused whenever I look at the aerial photo. The house is 2128 sf, while the lot is more than 3X bigger at 6741 sf. But the foot print of the house in the overhead view seem to take up the entire lot. Is there an error, or it is too early in the morning for me?
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 07:44 AM
Here is an eye-opener for all of your readers who think that a house built in 2005 cannot possibly go any lower than the original “cost”.
One and half million dollars seems to be a fair price according to the two other houses that are for sale on that street.
Posted by JoonB on 05/05/08 at 08:06 AM
I am actually surprised there hasn’t been a knife catcher on this house- being on the market 18 days. However, the house backs to Turtle Rock Drive- I would never buy a house on Shady Canyon or Turtle Rock Drive with the way cars go over 45 mph. No thanks!
Posted by Adam on 05/05/08 at 08:23 AM
Possibly a great scam here. Hmmm… How much would I be willing to sell my 800 credit score for? Would half or more of the down payment recovered by the first guy be enough to justify a bankruptcy on my record? Perhaps. I live frugally and would love to shove that money into some wealth building assets while my score eventually recovers.
The first guy’s credit score is bailed out (because he’s likely juggling more properties) plus he can retain some of his original down payment.
The creativity by some is truly a spectacle. I remember a guy in the forums was trying to figure out how to make money selling his credit score. This may be the scam to do it. lol.
Posted by ice weasel on 05/05/08 at 08:24 AM
“Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.”
I’m not a lender but I suspect we’re not being as exact as we could with the above description.
“Banks” don’t lend anyone anything. Loan officers do, or did, until the rise of the mortgage broker. Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.
So “the bank” loses here. Maybe some of the people involved in this loan are even unemployed right now but those commissions checks cashed.
Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. Sure it’s nice, but I don’t think that much nicer than a lot of other parts of Irvine or other nice parts of OC. Just doesn’t seem worth the premium. What am I missing?
Posted by NewToTheArea on 05/05/08 at 08:37 AM
UH OH !!!
Looks like Bank of America is having second thoughts about Countrywide:
From Forbes.com
Countrywide (CFC) sank 11% in morning trading Monday after an analyst said Bank of America (BAC) should walk away from its $4 billion deal to buy Countrywide, due to rising credit costs and souring loans at the troubled mortgage lender. Analyst Paul Miller at Friedman Billings Ramsey downgraded Countrywide to underperform from market perform and cut his price target to $2 from $7, saying Bank of America could face writedowns of $30 billion or more when it closes the Countrywide deal. He says BofA’s statement Thursday that it won’t guarantee Countrywide debt “is most likely the first step in renegotiating the entire deal.”
Miller estimates that Bank of America has a $22 billion cushion to absorb writedowns of Countrywide’s loan book. While that sounds like a big number, the analyst lays out a worst-case scenario that could see Bank of America taking $17 billion in writedowns on Countrywide’s home equity and second mortgage portfolio alone. The analyst says writedowns could reach $11 billion on Countrywide’s portfolio of option adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) and $5 billion on hybrid ARMs and other loans. Writedowns of that size could easily swamp the cushion Bank of America set aside when it agreed back in January to buy Countrywide for $7 or so in BofA stock.
“The issue of fair value marks was a significant part of the reason that National City (NCC) failed to find an acquirer,” Miller writes, referring to the Cleveland-based bank, which has taken large mortgage-related losses. “If fair value marks sufficiently exceed BAC’s projections at the time of its due diligence, we believe the deal price for the purchase of CFC could be renegotiated lower, or BAC could (and should) decide to walk away.”
Is it plausible that the home, when initially purchased, was tricked out with granite and other high end finishes, and the second buyer simply took out 100% financing and left with all those fine finishes?
Posted by alan on 05/05/08 at 08:45 AM
IR…
This deal sounds fishy to me too. Do you think the first purchase was done to get the home to apraise to $1.3 mil so that a straw buyer could come and then get the money from the bank? If so the DA should look into this deal.
And what are banks thinking lending $1.3 mil to someone with no skin in the game, they were just asking to be robbed.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 08:49 AM
I up your bid to all cash $429,500!
Posted by lawyerliz on 05/05/08 at 08:50 AM
I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.
This house is a big fat nothing. It looks a lot
like my average house is South Dade, which had a lot of 9800 square feet and a pool, altho less house square footage. At the bubbly height, my house could have sold for 300-350,000.
Whoever oked this loan should be hanged, drawn and quartered. And his boss, and his bosses boss.
This house was built the same year I graduated from Savanna High in Anaheim. Back then granite was just a rock. Even the homes in Beverly Hills still had tile. I suspect this house is very nice even to todays standards. I am sure it has been up-graded. I like it, to bad about the street noise and speeding cars.
Posted by george8 on 05/05/08 at 08:56 AM
You can ask all you want. It will just sit and rot.
Posted by george8 on 05/05/08 at 09:01 AM
Good point. From the map, it looks like the lot is absolutely no bigger than twice the house footprint.
Posted by buster on 05/05/08 at 09:11 AM
I’m asking $625,000 for my 2003 Chevy Cobalt. I guess that means my wife’s Explorer must be worth, what, say an even million?
Posted by ConsiderAgain on 05/05/08 at 09:21 AM
“Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. ... What am I missing?”
A tv show.
Posted by doug r on 05/05/08 at 09:23 AM
Anybody contact the OCDA yet?
Posted by Silly's Mom on 05/05/08 at 09:54 AM
Hmmmm.... somebody has some very CLEAN money. Because it’s been laundered! How could the bank have let this happen?
Posted by Strom on 05/05/08 at 10:06 AM
The sf probably doesn’t include the garage, eaves, etc.
Posted by Patience on 05/05/08 at 10:08 AM
Anecdotal: I rent a Turtle Rock condo. There have been two units on my street for sale for over a year, a 2 BR and a 3 BR. Another 2 BR went on sale a few months back.
Finally, the 3 BR sold to the person who has been renting it. The original asking price was $745,000 and rumor says it sold for mid to high 500’s. Approaching a $200K drop. But the realtor’s sign has disappeared. Apparently the seller doesn’t want anyone to know how low he let it go for. As if he can hide that…
Loads more for sale in the development - several have given up and turned into rentals.
Posted by kishore (renter) on 05/05/08 at 10:10 AM
What do you guys think of this from the OC Register, that demand is up..
The IHB got a mention and a link from the Eschaton blog today. That blog has over 300 posts for the TRock comments.
Posted by Dave J. on 05/05/08 at 10:16 AM
LIVING ROOM INFORMATION
Has Living Room
Hey, wow, it has a living room! Hilarious.
Posted by Masterofdamoney on 05/05/08 at 10:22 AM
You are correct, this is a WTF price even in pristine condition.
And I’m almost 100% positive that this home is TORN UP inside. Probably missing EVERYTHING, appliances, flooring, cabinets, etc…
I’m going to stop by later and take a peek. At any rate, this is gonna be a COMP KILLA for the ‘rock!
Posted by Ethan on 05/05/08 at 10:26 AM
That’s an ugly-ass house, even on the outside. I wouldn’t pay more than $200K for it.
Posted by vinoverde on 05/05/08 at 10:27 AM
absolutely, but i think the first buyer must be feeling pretty slick, sliding out from under a big mistake, i get the feeling the correct lesson will not be learned,
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 10:33 AM
Ipop:
better make an offer before some one else. this beauty is within your price range in T Rock. what are you waiting for
At least three TR condos have sold within the last month. Their average selling price was equivalent to mid 2004, just like most of the rest of Irvine. The two most recent closes were 5 and 40 days-on-market respectively. Not exactly what I would considering languishing…
boy that Eschaton blog comments section is FOS. 360 comments, and maybe 20 are on topic.
------------
Any yet somehow I managed to find my way over here from there amidst it all! Dam I’m good.
Enjoy.
Posted by zak822 on 05/05/08 at 11:14 AM
Ice Weasel, it’s a relief to see that at least some people have noticed the real problem here.
“Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.”
Everyone got cash in pocket to make this deal happen. How could we expect any other outcome? Who thinks people are going to avoid making a bucket of money?
If the institution known as “the bank” fails because of this kind of behavior, who cares? They got paid!
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 11:15 AM
I added a chrome rim to the Jalopy. I figure that has to add at least 25K to the value.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 11:17 AM
1 dollar, Bob.
Posted by PadreBrian on 05/05/08 at 11:23 AM
It’s going to go down to 400k. The house must be completely trashed inside. JP Morgan are idiots for funding those rap heads. They should also press charges.
Posted by ex-tangelo on 05/05/08 at 11:27 AM
Atrios’ comment section has been referred to as a “fever swamp”. The comments rarely have anything to do with the post’s subject.
I love reading Atrios, but the commenters… Whew
Posted by Fortyver on 05/05/08 at 12:07 PM
Good Lord who the heck would pay even $500K for that abomination? Long Island has some silly real estate prices, but I could find that shack for $600K or under with a rocking school district. Oh this gives me a headache.
I have been thinking about what crime has been committed here. I don’t think the DA could prove anything, particularly if the second buyers made at least 2 payments. The intent to defraud is difficult to prove, and with so much kool aid out there, extreme optimism and ignorance is a plausible defense.
“I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.”
This seems to be the most likely scenario in my mind.
A number of houses in my neighborhood (North Fullerton) sold last month--one at full asking price in 3 days. All of them sold for about 25% off peak prices
The site is receiving about 3 times its normal traffic today.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/
$1,299,000
People always justify their high local real estate prices by imagining there’s something unique, special, and different about their location. And there are indeed places which are special without many substitutes (Manhattan, certain beach communities, some resort towns, some others we can think of). But I’ve been to Turtle Rock in Irvine, and it just isn’t special.
-Atrios 10:59
Comments (349) Trackback (0)
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 12:42 PM
Actually, you might want to extend that to homes built in 02 too. In Irvine, new homes in new villages were always wildly overpriced when compared with existing villages.
At some point, the price disparities go away, so either the older homes shoot up in price or the newer homes come down from the stratosphere.
What do you think this property would go for at the bottom $250/SF - $300/SF? That would put the fixed-up value at $532,000 to $638,400. If you subtract off $125,000 for a total makeover, this property would be worth between $407,000 and $513,400.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 12:46 PM
(1) Better weather.
(2) Less traffic
(3) Hillsides
(4) Better schools
(5) Close to the beach (yep)
(6) Did I see no cross town commuter traffic?
It’s a quieter place than the flats on the other side of University Dr.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 12:59 PM
Talking points must be out today.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 01:05 PM
I disagree with your numbers because his house has location and HOA on its favor.
Reasonably fixed up, at the bottom I think this property will go for at least $350 per square foot, I think it would work out to $770K or so. Really well fixed up, up to current codes, it may fetch up to $900K
I figure to gut it and rebuild it inside (the layout is actually quite nice, so no need to redo walls), to put nice floors, stone on the bathrooms and kitchen, your standard Viking, KitchenAid built ins, dual zone HVAC, 300A service, insulation, networking, drywall, roof, etc… would run about 150K, perhaps less in the current cheap labor cost market.
Add a powder room somewhere and perhaps bump out a wall a bit would add another $50K but could add 200 sq feet too…
So, figure at the bottom, as it stands, this home is worth about $900K - $150K = $750K. Which is about $340 per square foot.
The Terrace is one of the better associations in TR. Also, although this house is on TR, it sits above it and has a view of the backside of TRidge and (I think this one) a partial view of Bommer Canyon.
The negatives on this one house is that it is rather small with only 2 bathrooms and I don’t think they can build a second story because the houses behind them would lose their view.
Of course, if it’s trashed then all bets are off as only those who are willing to do construction (we are) would consider it. In fact, I would consider such a Godsend. I can put my networking cables, 300A box, Viking, etc…
I don’t really understand the story behind this house. I think that well maintained homes in the Broadmoor will bottom at around $275 per square foot, with updated ones at $300.
And of course, true five bedroom homes fetch a premium because there are few in TR. (I say “true” because there’s a model in the Broadmoor that is sold as a 5b but it’s actually a 4b with a bonus room, and it has bad layout).
Posted by Scotts on 05/05/08 at 01:10 PM
I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil. However, it is still California, and therefore comparisons to Long Island or Florida are silly. CA is a nicer place to live and there is only so much land close enough to a major city and close enough to the Pacific to get the air-conditioned sunshine effect. (Riverside—now that’s another story. I have yet to figure out why anyone ever moved there or would consider it.)
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 01:12 PM
Why not?
I realize it’s too competitive.... yeah.. like those people who have to have their kids take 8 AP courses when they’re just sophomores....
But, other than that, it’s a very good school.
And as I tell my son… it’s OK if his X-country track team doesn’t win. At least he knows they have the highest IQs. :-D
OK that did it. I have to buy a keyboard now. And a new cup of coffee.
Posted by Kirk on 05/05/08 at 01:18 PM
I think most Irvine homes will sell for $250 sq/ft at the bottom. Turtle Rock will sell for more, but this particular house is right off of Turtle Rock Drive which is highly undesirable - teenage traffic from University High. This house was built in ’77 and will be competing with newly built Turtle Ridge. I’d say that it would bottom between $600-$650k after it’s fixed. That’s $282-$305 a square foot. It has a big lot – that’s all it has going for it.
Posted by furious sugar on 05/05/08 at 01:19 PM
There is a vacant lot for sale now in TR for $550K- just under 6000sqft and backs to Culver
Possible? Yes. Probable? I don’t think so. Couldn’t sell the fixtures for enough to make it worth while.
Posted by Iblis on 05/05/08 at 01:34 PM
Three houses sold in my immediate neighborhood last month (out of a total 4 on the market). Dead cat bounce?
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 01:55 PM
so basically according to Tonye, some one making between 200-300k should be able to buy this 2000 sqft. fixer upper 1977 POS.
how delightful.
when all is said and done, I have to agree with IR on this one 400-500k.
Posted by j on 05/05/08 at 01:58 PM
I guess I don’t see enough difference in these factors to justify the premium. I mean, are the schools and traffic really that bad in the rest of Irvine? Or the weather that good in TR? (Haven’t spent that much time in TR, but I’ve never noticed it to be *that* much cooler at UCI.) I guess I’d pay for a really killer view—maybe TR has more of these than I realize?
To each his own, I suppose.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 02:04 PM
ll - When one buys in Turtle Rock, one isn’t necessarily buying the house. One is buying the land and location and school district. Turtle Rock has some of the best schools in Southern California and has a reputation for being safe.
Posted by grabasnorkel on 05/05/08 at 02:09 PM
“These flippers are so far underwater, they are not on a ship of fools; they are on a submarine.”
LOL
Posted by fencewalker on 05/05/08 at 02:12 PM
What high schools/areas do you like?
Posted by fencewalker on 05/05/08 at 02:18 PM
“I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil”
LOL ... so true!
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 02:29 PM
“...back in 03 these homes were going for 900K or more.”
So Turtle Rock was ahead of the game in absurd pricing. What prices were in the past is no indication of where prices will be in the future. Why people continue to cling to historic prices as if they mean something is beyond me.
We are in the midst of the greatest collapse of home prices in the history of the world. At the bottom Turtle Rock will command only a slight premium to the less desireable developments in Irvine.
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 02:43 PM
hey, has CW been abducted by aliens and returns as a bear. what happened
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 02:45 PM
The make-up of the student body is 51.5% Asian, 39.8% Caucasian, 4.2% Hispanic, 1.8% African American, 1.5% Filipino, .4% Pacific Islander, and .2% American Indian. University High School is attended by students from more than sixty countries who speak over forty native languages.
Perhaps there are other reason Mrs. IPOP would prefer another school…
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 02:50 PM
You two guys have absolute no clue what you’re talking about.
UHS is like two miles down the street. How in the world can you claim that UHS traffic will affect this home.
This House is ABOVE TR drive. The map don’t show it but I drive by this house every day.
This is not a starter home. You would be expected to bring in some equity from another house.
The vast majority of homes in this are are in very well maintained condition.
In many ways, TRidge is not as desirable as the Terrace homes in TR.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 02:58 PM
In TR and UCI we get ocean breezes. Once you get down to the 405 the breezes stop and it gets hotter and colder. In the summer it will likely be 10 degrees hotter in Woodbridge than TR.
In the winter, it will often be foggy in UCI and Irvine, but in TR proper it won’t be because we sit just a bit higher. I’m not kidding, but the hills make their own microclimates.
Also, we don’t have the cross country traffic like Alton, University and even Culver get. That’s people trying to get around the traffic on the 405 , 5 and 55. TR sort of stays off the main traffic patterns.
Some of the view are really killer, BTW. I’ve been in homes with views of Mount Wilson, PV and the Ocean. Other homes will get Saddleback and Mount Wilson. The “back” has views of the hills, bommer Canyon and the reservoir. Indeed, I think there are better views in TR than in TRidge.
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 03:06 PM
C’mon, give me some credit. Just because I think purchase prices will always reflect a cost premium over renting should not have stripped me of my bear status!
As I have mentioned previously, I sold my place (closed in the last month, and there was (and is) a large dose of incentive caused bias. I felt a little guilty selling my falling knife, and in order to ease the dissonance tried to convince myself that the buyer was getting a “fair price” (suppresses snickers unsuccessefully and bursts in uproarious laughter!).
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 03:10 PM
It’s not the languages, that’s fine with me. Many of my kids’ friends have very heterogeneous backgrounds and although they speak two languages their english skills are “normal”.
My concern about UHS is the parents. It’s the ultra-competitiveness of a specific ethnic group that spoils for everyone else.
Some of those kids are forced to take AP classes or their parents will yell at them. I spoke with an advisor that had been ground by some parents because she did not allow a junior to be to take all 6 AP classes. Those kids have no life, no social skills and little imagination.
My kids are smart and I want them to get a good education, but I also want them to be kids. God knows what I did in HS.... did the AP thing, did the Community College thing, worked and partied like a loonie, got me a 3.8 and ended up with a nice scholarship.
So imagine how shocked we were when we found out that the GPA for admitting freshmen at UCI and UCLA is OVER 4.1!!!
WTF?
I hope to send my kids to UCSC (Santa Cruz) and CalPoly in SLO. Maybe once they go to college we’ll move north to SF or some place I can smoke a cigar in my backyard and grow some vino grapes.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 03:12 PM
I won’t bite.
I don’t think Manhattan is that special. No sunshine at street level.
Posted by r€nato on 05/05/08 at 03:13 PM
awesome. Now if only we had a photo of “Curveball"…
Posted by r€nato on 05/05/08 at 03:16 PM
I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil.
Motion seconded, approved and passed.
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 03:18 PM
It is quieter. Nearly every house in Irvine is subject to horrible freeway noise (drives me crazy). Turtle Rock is among those rare Irvine Developments that has a couple of hills between it and the freeway.
On the question of sound, can anyone share with me what other places in Irvine are devoid of freeway noise. When I finally do get around to buying again, No freeway noise is an absolute necessity.
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 03:40 PM
Posted by Kirk on 05/05/08 at 03:45 PM
Are you calling Microsoft Virtual Earth a liar? It shows the house adjacent to Turtle Rock Drive. You are right that it won’t get the worst of the traffic, because it’s not right by the school. But, you are kidding yourself if you don’t think the traffic is bad on Turtle Rock Drive. It’s not Culver, I’ll give you that, but by Turtle Rock standards it is a bad location and will be priced accordingly at the bottom.
Posted by JoonB on 05/05/08 at 04:06 PM
I looked at a home on Oakley and heard the noise and that was 2 streets above TR Drive and the noise was very noticeable- it was a deal breaker for my husband. And this house- being on TR Drive- forget it. This house isn’t a “Terrace” home- it’s the Highlands.
I don’t know how many people like seeing things from other areas, but I can’t wait to see how much this gem linked in my name sells for in Ventura County.
I am still blown away by the Realtors who stand to make a $13,000(?) commission and can’t be bothered to bring a real camera to take pictures of the house.
Posted by george8 on 05/05/08 at 05:48 AM
What is a fair price on a nice 6741 sf lot in Turtle Rock? $600k now or $400k in 2010? I think that is where this is going, just the bare lot price.
Posted by Agent#777 on 05/05/08 at 05:08 AM
WOW!!
This blog never ceases to amaze me!
Posted by Daryl on 05/05/08 at 05:20 AM
Isn’t $376/sq ft for a fixer upper bordering on WTF territory?
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:36 AM
Posted by cara on 05/05/08 at 05:45 AM
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:51 AM
It is a WTF even in pristine condition.
This is a simple tract home. Seems like it could be OK - but nothing posh whatsoever.
I am guessing that the people on this side of town had something extra mixed into their Kool-Aid that amplified the hallucinations.
Can you imagine buying this place for peanuts in 1977 and handing it off to some bag-holder idiot for 1.3 million in 2007? Talk about a nice tax-free lotto win.
Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 05:58 AM
400K sounds about right near the bottom.
Knife catcher will pull the pin around 600K is my guess.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 06:11 AM
I thought Turtle Rock was not going to be affected?
Posted by Hmmmmm on 05/05/08 at 06:31 AM
Wow. I can’t wait to see…
1. What price this house goes for
2. How long it takes to sell.
A lot of cahones to ask for a big price and advertise as a total redo....good luck to ya!
Posted by no_vaseline on 05/05/08 at 06:43 AM
Nobody tell Truthiness. She’ll jump for sure this time.
Posted by Lee in Irvine on 05/05/08 at 07:06 AM
Turtle Rock is the neighborhood were I hope to buy and raise my young children. I am thrilled to see that prices have turned the corner and are headed down like an anvil. And comp killers like this one make my day.
Thanks IHB!
Posted by 7 on 05/05/08 at 07:10 AM
I am always confused whenever I look at the aerial photo. The house is 2128 sf, while the lot is more than 3X bigger at 6741 sf. But the foot print of the house in the overhead view seem to take up the entire lot. Is there an error, or it is too early in the morning for me?
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 07:44 AM
Here is an eye-opener for all of your readers who think that a house built in 2005 cannot possibly go any lower than the original “cost”.
http://lansner.freedomblogging.com/2008/05/02/builders-home-pricing-at-02-levels-in-mid-april/
Posted by . on 05/05/08 at 07:56 AM
One and half million dollars seems to be a fair price according to the two other houses that are for sale on that street.
Posted by JoonB on 05/05/08 at 08:06 AM
I am actually surprised there hasn’t been a knife catcher on this house- being on the market 18 days. However, the house backs to Turtle Rock Drive- I would never buy a house on Shady Canyon or Turtle Rock Drive with the way cars go over 45 mph. No thanks!
Posted by Adam on 05/05/08 at 08:23 AM
Possibly a great scam here. Hmmm… How much would I be willing to sell my 800 credit score for? Would half or more of the down payment recovered by the first guy be enough to justify a bankruptcy on my record? Perhaps. I live frugally and would love to shove that money into some wealth building assets while my score eventually recovers.
The first guy’s credit score is bailed out (because he’s likely juggling more properties) plus he can retain some of his original down payment.
The creativity by some is truly a spectacle. I remember a guy in the forums was trying to figure out how to make money selling his credit score. This may be the scam to do it. lol.
Posted by ice weasel on 05/05/08 at 08:24 AM
“Why the banks were so stupid to give out huge loans on these houses is beyond belief.”
I’m not a lender but I suspect we’re not being as exact as we could with the above description.
“Banks” don’t lend anyone anything. Loan officers do, or did, until the rise of the mortgage broker. Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.
So “the bank” loses here. Maybe some of the people involved in this loan are even unemployed right now but those commissions checks cashed.
Posted by DeadBeatRenter on 05/05/08 at 08:25 AM
All cash offer at $429,000.00. Offer expires at end of business Friday, May 9th 2008
Posted by DeadBeatRenter on 05/05/08 at 08:27 AM
update e-mail, sorry
Posted by j on 05/05/08 at 08:32 AM
Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. Sure it’s nice, but I don’t think that much nicer than a lot of other parts of Irvine or other nice parts of OC. Just doesn’t seem worth the premium. What am I missing?
Posted by NewToTheArea on 05/05/08 at 08:37 AM
UH OH !!!
Looks like Bank of America is having second thoughts about Countrywide:
From Forbes.com
Countrywide (CFC) sank 11% in morning trading Monday after an analyst said Bank of America (BAC) should walk away from its $4 billion deal to buy Countrywide, due to rising credit costs and souring loans at the troubled mortgage lender. Analyst Paul Miller at Friedman Billings Ramsey downgraded Countrywide to underperform from market perform and cut his price target to $2 from $7, saying Bank of America could face writedowns of $30 billion or more when it closes the Countrywide deal. He says BofA’s statement Thursday that it won’t guarantee Countrywide debt “is most likely the first step in renegotiating the entire deal.”
Miller estimates that Bank of America has a $22 billion cushion to absorb writedowns of Countrywide’s loan book. While that sounds like a big number, the analyst lays out a worst-case scenario that could see Bank of America taking $17 billion in writedowns on Countrywide’s home equity and second mortgage portfolio alone. The analyst says writedowns could reach $11 billion on Countrywide’s portfolio of option adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) and $5 billion on hybrid ARMs and other loans. Writedowns of that size could easily swamp the cushion Bank of America set aside when it agreed back in January to buy Countrywide for $7 or so in BofA stock.
“The issue of fair value marks was a significant part of the reason that National City (NCC) failed to find an acquirer,” Miller writes, referring to the Cleveland-based bank, which has taken large mortgage-related losses. “If fair value marks sufficiently exceed BAC’s projections at the time of its due diligence, we believe the deal price for the purchase of CFC could be renegotiated lower, or BAC could (and should) decide to walk away.”
http://dailybriefing.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/05/analyst-says-bofa-should-ditch-countrywide/
Posted by cynic on 05/05/08 at 08:38 AM
Is it plausible that the home, when initially purchased, was tricked out with granite and other high end finishes, and the second buyer simply took out 100% financing and left with all those fine finishes?
Posted by alan on 05/05/08 at 08:45 AM
IR…
This deal sounds fishy to me too. Do you think the first purchase was done to get the home to apraise to $1.3 mil so that a straw buyer could come and then get the money from the bank? If so the DA should look into this deal.
And what are banks thinking lending $1.3 mil to someone with no skin in the game, they were just asking to be robbed.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 08:49 AM
I up your bid to all cash $429,500!
Posted by lawyerliz on 05/05/08 at 08:50 AM
I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.
This house is a big fat nothing. It looks a lot
like my average house is South Dade, which had a lot of 9800 square feet and a pool, altho less house square footage. At the bubbly height, my house could have sold for 300-350,000.
Whoever oked this loan should be hanged, drawn and quartered. And his boss, and his bosses boss.
Posted by DeadBeatRenter on 05/05/08 at 08:53 AM
This house was built the same year I graduated from Savanna High in Anaheim. Back then granite was just a rock. Even the homes in Beverly Hills still had tile. I suspect this house is very nice even to todays standards. I am sure it has been up-graded. I like it, to bad about the street noise and speeding cars.
Posted by george8 on 05/05/08 at 08:56 AM
You can ask all you want. It will just sit and rot.
Posted by george8 on 05/05/08 at 09:01 AM
Good point. From the map, it looks like the lot is absolutely no bigger than twice the house footprint.
Posted by buster on 05/05/08 at 09:11 AM
I’m asking $625,000 for my 2003 Chevy Cobalt. I guess that means my wife’s Explorer must be worth, what, say an even million?
Posted by ConsiderAgain on 05/05/08 at 09:21 AM
“Not sure I really understand the appeal of Turtle Rock. ... What am I missing?”
A tv show.
Posted by doug r on 05/05/08 at 09:23 AM
Anybody contact the OCDA yet?
Posted by Silly's Mom on 05/05/08 at 09:54 AM
Hmmmm.... somebody has some very CLEAN money. Because it’s been laundered! How could the bank have let this happen?
Posted by Strom on 05/05/08 at 10:06 AM
The sf probably doesn’t include the garage, eaves, etc.
Posted by Patience on 05/05/08 at 10:08 AM
Anecdotal: I rent a Turtle Rock condo. There have been two units on my street for sale for over a year, a 2 BR and a 3 BR. Another 2 BR went on sale a few months back.
Finally, the 3 BR sold to the person who has been renting it. The original asking price was $745,000 and rumor says it sold for mid to high 500’s. Approaching a $200K drop. But the realtor’s sign has disappeared. Apparently the seller doesn’t want anyone to know how low he let it go for. As if he can hide that…
Loads more for sale in the development - several have given up and turned into rentals.
Posted by kishore (renter) on 05/05/08 at 10:10 AM
What do you guys think of this from the OC Register, that demand is up..
http://lansner.freedomblogging.com/2008/05/05/demand-for-oc-homes-nears-06-levels/
Posted by JNinWB on 05/05/08 at 10:15 AM
The IHB got a mention and a link from the Eschaton blog today. That blog has over 300 posts for the TRock comments.
Posted by Dave J. on 05/05/08 at 10:16 AM
LIVING ROOM INFORMATION
Has Living Room
Hey, wow, it has a living room! Hilarious.
Posted by Masterofdamoney on 05/05/08 at 10:22 AM
You are correct, this is a WTF price even in pristine condition.
And I’m almost 100% positive that this home is TORN UP inside. Probably missing EVERYTHING, appliances, flooring, cabinets, etc…
I’m going to stop by later and take a peek. At any rate, this is gonna be a COMP KILLA for the ‘rock!
Posted by Ethan on 05/05/08 at 10:26 AM
That’s an ugly-ass house, even on the outside. I wouldn’t pay more than $200K for it.
Posted by vinoverde on 05/05/08 at 10:27 AM
absolutely, but i think the first buyer must be feeling pretty slick, sliding out from under a big mistake, i get the feeling the correct lesson will not be learned,
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 10:33 AM
Ipop:
better make an offer before some one else. this beauty is within your price range in T Rock. what are you waiting for
Posted by . on 05/05/08 at 10:34 AM
What are you missing?
The view of the famous Turtle Rock, of course
Posted by freedomCM on 05/05/08 at 10:38 AM
boy that Eschaton blog comments section is FOS. 360 comments, and maybe 20 are on topic.
Posted by TheNumbersNeverLie on 05/05/08 at 10:40 AM
An 800k fixer. That seems like a bad investment to me.
Posted by ipoplaya on 05/05/08 at 10:41 AM
Alas, I am not allowed to buy in Turtle Rock. Wife doesn’t want the kids going to Uni…
I’m not really into older place either so it would have to be bargain tear-down pricing for me to ever unload on something there.
Posted by ipoplaya on 05/05/08 at 10:42 AM
I did visit a house in Tustin Ranch this weekend I am considering an offer on though
Posted by ipoplaya on 05/05/08 at 10:56 AM
At least three TR condos have sold within the last month. Their average selling price was equivalent to mid 2004, just like most of the rest of Irvine. The two most recent closes were 5 and 40 days-on-market respectively. Not exactly what I would considering languishing…
Posted by Tim Fuller on 05/05/08 at 11:09 AM
boy that Eschaton blog comments section is FOS. 360 comments, and maybe 20 are on topic.
------------
Any yet somehow I managed to find my way over here from there amidst it all! Dam I’m good.
Enjoy.
Posted by zak822 on 05/05/08 at 11:14 AM
Ice Weasel, it’s a relief to see that at least some people have noticed the real problem here.
“Those people collect fees every time they inked a deal. It didn’t matter if it was realistic, practical or not. They collected their commission, it’s all good. This is the ultimate distillation of the short term gain ethos that is suffused in nearly every layer of American business.”
Everyone got cash in pocket to make this deal happen. How could we expect any other outcome? Who thinks people are going to avoid making a bucket of money?
If the institution known as “the bank” fails because of this kind of behavior, who cares? They got paid!
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 11:15 AM
I added a chrome rim to the Jalopy. I figure that has to add at least 25K to the value.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 11:17 AM
1 dollar, Bob.
Posted by PadreBrian on 05/05/08 at 11:23 AM
It’s going to go down to 400k. The house must be completely trashed inside. JP Morgan are idiots for funding those rap heads. They should also press charges.
Posted by ex-tangelo on 05/05/08 at 11:27 AM
Atrios’ comment section has been referred to as a “fever swamp”. The comments rarely have anything to do with the post’s subject.
I love reading Atrios, but the commenters… Whew
Posted by Fortyver on 05/05/08 at 12:07 PM
Good Lord who the heck would pay even $500K for that abomination? Long Island has some silly real estate prices, but I could find that shack for $600K or under with a rocking school district. Oh this gives me a headache.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:08 PM
I suspect this is the exact mental calculation the second buyers went through.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:12 PM
I have been thinking about what crime has been committed here. I don’t think the DA could prove anything, particularly if the second buyers made at least 2 payments. The intent to defraud is difficult to prove, and with so much kool aid out there, extreme optimism and ignorance is a plausible defense.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:13 PM
“I think the first and second buyers were in cahoots with each other and divided the money cashed out. Or maybe the first buyer couldn’t cash out after purchase as he intended, so arranged this.”
This seems to be the most likely scenario in my mind.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:15 PM
“The math of Steve Thomas at Re/Max Real Estate Services in Aliso Viejo says demand for O.C. housing continues to grow.”
The article lost me at the first sentence…
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:17 PM
If you go see the place, please let us know what you see. Thanks.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 12:20 PM
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 12:23 PM
Tustin ranch has some very nice parts, good luck on your offer.
Dont forget to lowball like I taught you :mrgreen:
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 12:24 PM
:smile:
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 12:25 PM
Actually no. This is a very nice area, I have been in those homes and back in 03 these homes were going for 900K or more.
I would assume that $125K would fix it to much better than new standards.
In fact, I may drive there this week and take a look at it. I personally wouldn’t mind buying it.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:29 PM
Steve Thomas using the Old Jedi Mind Trick… LOL
Posted by Anonymous on 05/05/08 at 12:29 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/04/how-much-for-th.html
Posted by Dave on 05/05/08 at 12:35 PM
A number of houses in my neighborhood (North Fullerton) sold last month--one at full asking price in 3 days. All of them sold for about 25% off peak prices
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:40 PM
The site is receiving about 3 times its normal traffic today.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/
$1,299,000
People always justify their high local real estate prices by imagining there’s something unique, special, and different about their location. And there are indeed places which are special without many substitutes (Manhattan, certain beach communities, some resort towns, some others we can think of). But I’ve been to Turtle Rock in Irvine, and it just isn’t special.
-Atrios 10:59
Comments (349) Trackback (0)
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 12:42 PM
Actually, you might want to extend that to homes built in 02 too. In Irvine, new homes in new villages were always wildly overpriced when compared with existing villages.
At some point, the price disparities go away, so either the older homes shoot up in price or the newer homes come down from the stratosphere.
Obviously, the latter is what’s happening.
Posted by IrvineRenter on 05/05/08 at 12:44 PM
What do you think this property would go for at the bottom $250/SF - $300/SF? That would put the fixed-up value at $532,000 to $638,400. If you subtract off $125,000 for a total makeover, this property would be worth between $407,000 and $513,400.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 12:46 PM
(1) Better weather.
(2) Less traffic
(3) Hillsides
(4) Better schools
(5) Close to the beach (yep)
(6) Did I see no cross town commuter traffic?
It’s a quieter place than the flats on the other side of University Dr.
Posted by AZDavidPhx on 05/05/08 at 12:59 PM
Talking points must be out today.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 01:05 PM
I disagree with your numbers because his house has location and HOA on its favor.
Reasonably fixed up, at the bottom I think this property will go for at least $350 per square foot, I think it would work out to $770K or so. Really well fixed up, up to current codes, it may fetch up to $900K
I figure to gut it and rebuild it inside (the layout is actually quite nice, so no need to redo walls), to put nice floors, stone on the bathrooms and kitchen, your standard Viking, KitchenAid built ins, dual zone HVAC, 300A service, insulation, networking, drywall, roof, etc… would run about 150K, perhaps less in the current cheap labor cost market.
Add a powder room somewhere and perhaps bump out a wall a bit would add another $50K but could add 200 sq feet too…
So, figure at the bottom, as it stands, this home is worth about $900K - $150K = $750K. Which is about $340 per square foot.
The Terrace is one of the better associations in TR. Also, although this house is on TR, it sits above it and has a view of the backside of TRidge and (I think this one) a partial view of Bommer Canyon.
The negatives on this one house is that it is rather small with only 2 bathrooms and I don’t think they can build a second story because the houses behind them would lose their view.
Of course, if it’s trashed then all bets are off as only those who are willing to do construction (we are) would consider it. In fact, I would consider such a Godsend. I can put my networking cables, 300A box, Viking, etc…
I don’t really understand the story behind this house. I think that well maintained homes in the Broadmoor will bottom at around $275 per square foot, with updated ones at $300.
And of course, true five bedroom homes fetch a premium because there are few in TR. (I say “true” because there’s a model in the Broadmoor that is sold as a 5b but it’s actually a 4b with a bonus room, and it has bad layout).
Posted by Scotts on 05/05/08 at 01:10 PM
I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil. However, it is still California, and therefore comparisons to Long Island or Florida are silly. CA is a nicer place to live and there is only so much land close enough to a major city and close enough to the Pacific to get the air-conditioned sunshine effect. (Riverside—now that’s another story. I have yet to figure out why anyone ever moved there or would consider it.)
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 01:12 PM
Why not?
I realize it’s too competitive.... yeah.. like those people who have to have their kids take 8 AP courses when they’re just sophomores....
But, other than that, it’s a very good school.
And as I tell my son… it’s OK if his X-country track team doesn’t win. At least he knows they have the highest IQs. :-D
Posted by no_vaseline on 05/05/08 at 01:16 PM
OK that did it. I have to buy a keyboard now. And a new cup of coffee.
Posted by Kirk on 05/05/08 at 01:18 PM
I think most Irvine homes will sell for $250 sq/ft at the bottom. Turtle Rock will sell for more, but this particular house is right off of Turtle Rock Drive which is highly undesirable - teenage traffic from University High. This house was built in ’77 and will be competing with newly built Turtle Ridge. I’d say that it would bottom between $600-$650k after it’s fixed. That’s $282-$305 a square foot. It has a big lot – that’s all it has going for it.
Posted by furious sugar on 05/05/08 at 01:19 PM
There is a vacant lot for sale now in TR for $550K- just under 6000sqft and backs to Culver
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/19441-Sierra-Chula-Rd-92603/home/4739885
Posted by Iblis on 05/05/08 at 01:30 PM
Possible? Yes. Probable? I don’t think so. Couldn’t sell the fixtures for enough to make it worth while.
Posted by Iblis on 05/05/08 at 01:34 PM
Three houses sold in my immediate neighborhood last month (out of a total 4 on the market). Dead cat bounce?
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 01:55 PM
so basically according to Tonye, some one making between 200-300k should be able to buy this 2000 sqft. fixer upper 1977 POS.
how delightful.
when all is said and done, I have to agree with IR on this one 400-500k.
Posted by j on 05/05/08 at 01:58 PM
I guess I don’t see enough difference in these factors to justify the premium. I mean, are the schools and traffic really that bad in the rest of Irvine? Or the weather that good in TR? (Haven’t spent that much time in TR, but I’ve never noticed it to be *that* much cooler at UCI.) I guess I’d pay for a really killer view—maybe TR has more of these than I realize?
To each his own, I suppose.
Posted by awgee on 05/05/08 at 02:04 PM
ll - When one buys in Turtle Rock, one isn’t necessarily buying the house. One is buying the land and location and school district. Turtle Rock has some of the best schools in Southern California and has a reputation for being safe.
Posted by grabasnorkel on 05/05/08 at 02:09 PM
“These flippers are so far underwater, they are not on a ship of fools; they are on a submarine.”
LOL
Posted by fencewalker on 05/05/08 at 02:12 PM
What high schools/areas do you like?
Posted by fencewalker on 05/05/08 at 02:18 PM
“I live in Northern CA and therefore think that the OC is the root of all evil”
LOL ... so true!
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 02:29 PM
“...back in 03 these homes were going for 900K or more.”
So Turtle Rock was ahead of the game in absurd pricing. What prices were in the past is no indication of where prices will be in the future. Why people continue to cling to historic prices as if they mean something is beyond me.
We are in the midst of the greatest collapse of home prices in the history of the world. At the bottom Turtle Rock will command only a slight premium to the less desireable developments in Irvine.
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 02:43 PM
hey, has CW been abducted by aliens and returns as a bear. what happened
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 02:45 PM
The make-up of the student body is 51.5% Asian, 39.8% Caucasian, 4.2% Hispanic, 1.8% African American, 1.5% Filipino, .4% Pacific Islander, and .2% American Indian. University High School is attended by students from more than sixty countries who speak over forty native languages.
Perhaps there are other reason Mrs. IPOP would prefer another school…
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 02:50 PM
You two guys have absolute no clue what you’re talking about.
UHS is like two miles down the street. How in the world can you claim that UHS traffic will affect this home.
This House is ABOVE TR drive. The map don’t show it but I drive by this house every day.
This is not a starter home. You would be expected to bring in some equity from another house.
The vast majority of homes in this are are in very well maintained condition.
In many ways, TRidge is not as desirable as the Terrace homes in TR.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 02:58 PM
In TR and UCI we get ocean breezes. Once you get down to the 405 the breezes stop and it gets hotter and colder. In the summer it will likely be 10 degrees hotter in Woodbridge than TR.
In the winter, it will often be foggy in UCI and Irvine, but in TR proper it won’t be because we sit just a bit higher. I’m not kidding, but the hills make their own microclimates.
Also, we don’t have the cross country traffic like Alton, University and even Culver get. That’s people trying to get around the traffic on the 405 , 5 and 55. TR sort of stays off the main traffic patterns.
Some of the view are really killer, BTW. I’ve been in homes with views of Mount Wilson, PV and the Ocean. Other homes will get Saddleback and Mount Wilson. The “back” has views of the hills, bommer Canyon and the reservoir. Indeed, I think there are better views in TR than in TRidge.
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 03:06 PM
C’mon, give me some credit. Just because I think purchase prices will always reflect a cost premium over renting should not have stripped me of my bear status!
As I have mentioned previously, I sold my place (closed in the last month, and there was (and is) a large dose of incentive caused bias. I felt a little guilty selling my falling knife, and in order to ease the dissonance tried to convince myself that the buyer was getting a “fair price” (suppresses snickers unsuccessefully and bursts in uproarious laughter!).
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 03:10 PM
It’s not the languages, that’s fine with me. Many of my kids’ friends have very heterogeneous backgrounds and although they speak two languages their english skills are “normal”.
My concern about UHS is the parents. It’s the ultra-competitiveness of a specific ethnic group that spoils for everyone else.
Some of those kids are forced to take AP classes or their parents will yell at them. I spoke with an advisor that had been ground by some parents because she did not allow a junior to be to take all 6 AP classes. Those kids have no life, no social skills and little imagination.
My kids are smart and I want them to get a good education, but I also want them to be kids. God knows what I did in HS.... did the AP thing, did the Community College thing, worked and partied like a loonie, got me a 3.8 and ended up with a nice scholarship.
So imagine how shocked we were when we found out that the GPA for admitting freshmen at UCI and UCLA is OVER 4.1!!!
WTF?
I hope to send my kids to UCSC (Santa Cruz) and CalPoly in SLO. Maybe once they go to college we’ll move north to SF or some place I can smoke a cigar in my backyard and grow some vino grapes.
Posted by tonye on 05/05/08 at 03:12 PM
I won’t bite.
I don’t think Manhattan is that special. No sunshine at street level.
Posted by r€nato on 05/05/08 at 03:13 PM
awesome. Now if only we had a photo of “Curveball"…
Posted by r€nato on 05/05/08 at 03:16 PM
Motion seconded, approved and passed.
Posted by CapitalismWorks on 05/05/08 at 03:18 PM
It is quieter. Nearly every house in Irvine is subject to horrible freeway noise (drives me crazy). Turtle Rock is among those rare Irvine Developments that has a couple of hills between it and the freeway.
On the question of sound, can anyone share with me what other places in Irvine are devoid of freeway noise. When I finally do get around to buying again, No freeway noise is an absolute necessity.
Posted by mmg on 05/05/08 at 03:40 PM
Posted by Kirk on 05/05/08 at 03:45 PM
Are you calling Microsoft Virtual Earth a liar? It shows the house adjacent to Turtle Rock Drive. You are right that it won’t get the worst of the traffic, because it’s not right by the school. But, you are kidding yourself if you don’t think the traffic is bad on Turtle Rock Drive. It’s not Culver, I’ll give you that, but by Turtle Rock standards it is a bad location and will be priced accordingly at the bottom.
Posted by JoonB on 05/05/08 at 04:06 PM
I looked at a home on Oakley and heard the noise and that was 2 streets above TR Drive and the noise was very noticeable- it was a deal breaker for my husband. And this house- being on TR Drive- forget it. This house isn’t a “Terrace” home- it’s the Highlands.
Posted by Blueberry Pie on 05/05/08 at 04:21 PM
I don’t know how many people like seeing things from other areas, but I can’t wait to see how much this gem linked in my name sells for in Ventura County.
I am still blown away by the Realtors who stand to make a $13,000(?) commission and can’t be bothered to bring a real camera to take pictures of the house.