ROXXORZ! $467/sq ft!
-----

1050 sf in two levels creates small rooms. I’d have hard time buying or renting at the asking price or rent.

This way of valuing homes makes the most sense.

I wonder what the impact on the overall market will be if all these people who are losing their homes are basically unable to repurchase for at least 7 years - like a BK will do to your credit.

Will people who did shortsales and foreclosurs be precluded from buying into RE again for a certain amount of time?

Quail Hill and the newer hi-impact housing at Tustin Field had units with basically 3 stories. 

I think the stairs and little landings were included in the square footage.  People didn’t used to question those things before, if it appeared to add a couple hundred more feet to the specs.

Seeing stuff like this makes my grateful I don’t live in SoCal. Not to knock on SoCal by any means, but I love my beloved Tennessee. It is very interesting to note that I found a property nearby for sale that had a closing on it the first week of December 2007 and is now for sale as a REO. I think it’s a first payment default. The good thing is that the property is now listed a good 17% off that sales price. The December 2007 sales price seemed ok, but this new price is unbelievable.

So I’m looking at some FHA loans, cuz I don’t have much of a down payment, but our household has a good income and no other debt. The interest rates are crazy! Our bank website is quoting a 15-year fixed at 5%!!

So I’m wondering that because the bank is listing this property so soon after taking possession, that they would be amenable to taking offers under the asking price? Oh, and it’s $63/sq ft, with a full, but unfinished, basement.

Somebody will just have to explain why the home in the listing is worth the extra $400/sq ft!

Based on current rent values and a 160 GRM, my home was around 38-39% over-valued at its peak price.  Market for my place has already declined 18, maybe 19%, based off recently sales, so it feels like we are indeed near a midpoint in this correction.

.

Speaking of “1st payment default”.... I’ve got a theory.... 

I’m wondering if some sort of black market hasn’t been created to produce straw buyers, you know...the ones that buy a house for full (or over) asking, then don’t pay one dime towards the mortgage.

If I was an unethical effed seller, I might just kick someone back 25K to buy my depreciating asset for full price.  I’m guessing if it’s someone with decent credit (straw buyer) ....25K might be a good payout to them to compensate for the dented FICO. 

So it would be a “win-win”, I would be able to sell my house...most likely for profit.  Pocket $$ that would be disappearing daily if it remained on the market....the straw buyer gets 25K....the realtard and broker make their $$....and only the bank is the bag holder (and sticking it to “The Man” is probably not as difficult to think about...)

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?  Are the underwriters considering this?  I’m guessing it’s already happening.

WOW...this is delusional.

Anyways, $180k when it’s all said and done.

It’s worth that much more because someone can and will pay that much… Well, maybe not that much, but I suspect someone will snap up this REO in fairly short order.  It’s called demand, it’s extremely local, and it’s almost worthless to even discuss. 

If I were in the market for a home, I sure wouldn’t buy one in TN and commute 12 hours per day so I could own for $63 per sf.  Additionally, if I could afford to continue to live near family and friends here is sunny So Cal, I would never consider quitting my very well-paying job and moving my entire family to TN to own for $63 per sf.  Get it?  My demand doesn’t influence your prices and vice versa.

Now if I was struggling to afford to live in So Cal, I’d sure as heck consider TN.  I scanned job postings in Memphis and it appears the salaries for experienced accounting and finance management folk, such as myself, are only 20-25% less than they are here.  Teachers, like my wife, make 25-30% less.  I saw some nice McMansions in Memphis, 5/3 on .3 to .5 acres, in the high $200K range.  Amazing that a family can buy a big nice house at just 1.5-2X income.

Based on what Prime?  You think rent on this place will somehow decline by 50%.  Are the martians landing tomorrow too?  Are you still having drinks with their leader?

I do understand that demand is all local. I was just sooo excited when I saw this property pop up. After a little digging, I think owners went BK, and that’s why its REO.

so you married a teacher, too? What is it about accountants and teachers? Teachers don’t make scut in TN. Probably something to do with the low-ish property taxes here. North and Northeast is where the teacher $$$ is at. Spoke to a friend of mine in NJ, where property taxes are a little excessive, and he was doing tax work for some teachers, and they make some big ol $$$.

Anyone who pays more than 300k for this cute apartment is catching a falling knife.

Given the cost of housing, I don’t think teachers make a bad living there.  I was looking at salary schedules at Memphis City Schools - http://www.mcsk12.net.

If you figure a mid career teacher, i.e. 10 years exp, makes $55K in Memphis, they could afford a big ole 5/3 in the Memphis area at 5-6X just their teacher salary.  That multiple here for the same sized place would be more like 16-17X.

Accountants and teachers are good combos.  Most teachers are people type people while few accountants are.  Many of the teachers I have met are far from financially savvy, so it’s good when they have a partner that’s numbers oriented.

I love the first payment default theory.  Crooks are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.  There are a lot of people out there that are on the verge of losing it all, however they have yet to go into default, so why not double down and try to use the last few months of your good credit to pull a laundered “25,000” out as some seed money for a new life.

Interesting....

Has anyone seen that new youtube like relestate site www.beekast.com? Looks pretty cool.

Maybe it’s me, but I would never pay that rent when I could get an upgraded IAC apartment in Newport Beach that has a few more square feet for $100 less a month.  On the other hand, I can see why this would be appealing to someone who didn’t want to appear to be renting or just didn’t like the idea of renting from the Irvine Company.

Again…

Your rental comparison may be accurate; however, until the owners have a tennant, the asking rent remains a wishing price and may not be market.  We know it is not below market because if it were, the property would have been rented.

So you should say, current asking price is at least $120k overvalued compared to asking rent for comparable property, but since compareable remains unleased, the overvaluation may be considerably higher if the owners have to drop their asking rent to lease the property.

That’s insane Vincent.  You people are whacked this morning.

Even if you fully finance this place at $350K right now (if you could somehow get it), your net after-tax housing expense would be around $1700 all-in (interest, taxes, MR, hoa, insurance).  Conventional 30-years are well under 6% today.

This $1700 is far below what it rents at.  That is far far below what equivalent IAC properties in the area rent at.  That $1700 is probably the lowest that rents on this unit could ever go as a result of a recession…

Conclusion, at $350K today, it’s a pretty screaming good deal especially if you intend to live in it and rent it out later.

The asking rent is a little high, but not by much.  It would rent at $2200/month without much of a problem…

I look at the photo of the garage door in the for-sale listing and see the sunlight coming in under the entire left half of the door and I think to myself, if the builder couldn’t be bothered with ensuring that the garage floor and driveway are level, what else couldn’t they be bothered with?  I couldn’t be convinced to buy this house at any price.

You can walk to Canyon View Elementary and Northwood High from this place.  Somebody will buy it for that reason alone.  However, the price per square foot is indeed outrageous.  They’re hoping someone from Seoul will come over and snap it up for cash!!

Someone from Seoul just might to get into Canyon View for cheap. 

I’m acquainted with a family that bought a 2600sf in NW when they already had 3000sf in another area of Irvine just to gain access to Canyon View and Northwood High.  Their 3000sf rental has lost hundreds of thousands in value, but they are still happy with their choice.

Based on the fact it is a piece of crap!

ipop, the country is about ready to enter a recession. Most of the RE jobs created due to the bubble are in the process of being eliminated.

Real estate will probably over-correct on the down-side. This property which I thought would of sold by now was built for munchkins. (Nothing against munchkins )

Countrywide says foreclosures highest on record
http://tinyurl.com/35plrz

I see four IAC complexes near there with 2/2 same size and garage style complexes with rents from $1900 to $2100.

That’s today.  Once again, they may get this rental asking price.  But you easily can peel 10% or so off the that.

Frankly, $1700 is only 10% below current low end MSRP rent at IAC for similar units (sans detached wall).  That won’t take much, that’s a promo of a month off on a 12 month lease.

the only way to find out is to ask.

until it has a tennat, we are blowing smoke speculating what it would rent for.  how many months has it been listed at this price? maybe you could have your wife call and play dumb IPOP and see what she can find out.

my point is that using IR’s 160 multiplier, each reduction of 100/month in rental income translates into a 16,000 equivalent value reduction to buy.

if it eventually rents at $1,800, which may not be too far off given that the economy is going into the sh#$%er, then it’s value drops to $288k

Trooper-

I read about fraud rings that work as you suggested above - they have crooked loan officer and a crooked appraiser and everyone agrees to cook the books together, then split the gain.  Some people have been arrested, but I haven’t heard of cases in OC.

This can work when the market is really crazy and so many deals are flying around that people don’t look at them carefully - the pressure is on the close so many deals per week or month.  It’s all about volume, baby!

Wow, that story illustrates some serious social conditioning.
Does going to those schools guarantee admission into Harvard?
I thought there was parity among all Irvine schools.
What makes these two schools exceptional?

I say this is a reasonable purchase *now* from a rentsaver point of view, assuming the rental price is realistic. At 6%, the interest cost of borrowing 490K is $2450/ month, only $100 more than the rent. I don’t think principal payments should be part of the cost of owning - they are forced saving, and will eventually be recovered. If you include the benefit of your borrowed money depreciating at 2.5% inflation then the ownership cost drops to $1838/month, probably below rental costs even if that rent is a wishing price.

Now because of herd behavior prices may well continue to fall for some time and that’s certainly a good reason to delay buying. I think it’s very possible prices will keep falling to the cashflow breakeven IR target because you need to be about that point for waiting to stop making sense even if prices are dropping. That’s probably what we’ll need to break the seller’s market. But at that price this (and any other house) is a killer rentsaver purchase, because your ownership costs are fully covered by rentsaving, making the principal payments and inflation effects pure gravy.

I’ve never understood quite how this works.  Would this high-FICO straw buyer need to have no savings or assets for this to work?  Otherwise wouldn’t he be putting his 401K on the line for not much payoff?

How are you arriving at that $1700/mo number IPO?  I’ve run the numbers several different ways based on financing 350K @ 5.75% and I’m coming up with monthly outlays of $2100-$2400 depending on tax assumptions.

“I’ve never understood quite how this works”

Two words:  Identity Theft.

You put way too much emphasis on the “160” value of GRM.

See the first two charts that Irvine Renter posted on
http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/2008/01/05/more-price-to-rental-data/

A 160 GRM is the same as a 13.3 on the charts (They use annual rent-to-price multiples, yours is a monthly).

The charts don’t line up, but neither one settles anywhere near a GRM of 160 (or 13.3 annually). The Calculated Risk chart touches 16 or 17 annually, once, in 1971.

Like a P/E in stocks, it’s better to keep track of current trends in owner-equivalent rents than to fixate on a magical number. A number that’s an outlier means the thing is over- or under-priced relative to others, but it may never actually return to what you predetermine is ‘normal’.

While I believe in keeping models simple for comparison, unfortunately, the waving of a hands and merely looking at rough parity of interest costs will lead the woefull buyer into defaults when they discover all the sundry costs of owning.  Not just the HOA & property taxes, but the 6% selling commission, insurance, sundry repairs and touch-ups and that principal payment you blithely ignore to the tune of $500 a month.

I once bid on a 1,000 sq ft 2-story home on a 643 sq ft lot. Yes, that’s not a typo. I didn’t get it—I was outbid. It’s since resold. The property has had no problems finding people who want to live in it.

The home’s design can make small spaces feel comfortable. Size is just one thing on people’s list of what they want in a home, and some don’t want or need ‘big’.

“Now because of herd behavior”

Are you a realtor?  Seriously..

Last time I checked it was the laws of supply and demand at work, not some psychologic mumbo-jumbo.

see calcuated risk’s free jan newsletter, it’l tell you all about the housing market.

key point..

normal inventy 6 months of sales
inventory below 6 months… prices rise
inventory above 8 monts… prices fall

inventory now well over 12 months and for the expensive properties, over 750K, 16 months and rising.

combine that w tight credit and a tanking economy and you don’t need no psycho mumbo-jumbo

So MV, you think this recession will drive a 30+% reduction in rents?  Do you own any stock?  If you do, your contention makes little sense. 

It would have to be a mighty recession with some massive unemployment for such an event to occur in spite of inflation… The markets would have to correct by huge percentages if your scenario were to come to fruition so I am guessing all your net worth is in cash, under the mattress.

Tangelo, good point.  IMHO, that’s one reason the newer IAC apartments rent for so much. If you look at the floor plans, they at 900-1000 sf.  However they are lucky if the 10 sf of unusable space.  No stairs, no hallways, just all usuable space.

IAC complexes also may command a small rental premium over a private party because of the ammenties provided and professional maintence of the complex.

Taking IAC asking rent and cutting it 10% is probably a reasonable approximation of true market rent.

Prevent identity theft by freezing your credit with each of the 3 major credit bureaus. It’s $10 (each) and $10 to temporarily unfreeze it when you apply for a loan or new credit line. It’s free if you have been a victim of ID theft (keep the police report)

Here’s experian’s instructions:

http://www.experian.com/consumer/security_freeze.html

What IAC complexes are you looking at that are priced in that range.  IMO, the only IAC complex which is a good comp to this is Woodbury Place --- which has attached and detached townhouses w/2 car attached garages and is in an *equal* neighborhood.  Their Plan D 1,035 sq ft is currently $2,440.

http://www.rental-living.com/Communities/Woodbury-Place/Prices-And-Floorplans/Floorplan/Plan-D/

Don’t forget that people will pay a premium to rent in cetain neighborhoods for schools.  Northwood Pointe (Canyon View Elem/Sierra Vista MS/Northwood HS) is one of those neighborhoods.  IPO is right on with his $2,200 rent estimate.

NSR - These IAC apartments are apartments.  Attached on all sides, people above and below, etc.  People pay a big premium, surely $100s of dollars per month, to have their very own structure.  That is why this place would rent today for $2200-2300.  It’s over a 20% reduction to fall from what it rents for today to $1700.  Where were those reductions during the last recession?  They weren’t there.  I paid $1600 to rent a 1000sf 2/2 from IAC in 1999 and it cost me $1600.  The notion that rents in the short to mid term will fall to levels previous to our equivalent to the tech recession, in spite years of inflation and wage growth, is absurd.

Monthly pre-tax interest cost of $1677 on $350K @ 5.75%
Monthly pre-tax prop tax / MR of $500 based on $6K per year
35% tax deduction of monthly $2177 pre-tax spend
$150 per month HOA (high estimate, I think total is more like $120)
$100 per month insurance (which is too high, it would be more like $50-60)

Add it up, what do ya get?  $1665 per month after-tax.  I do not used a principal repayment because if you were renting, none of that spend on rent would be saving.  If you factor in principal repayment, the monthly after-tax spend would probably be equivalent or close, but you’d be increasing your net worth by the amount of principal repayment.  This would not occur with the rent spend, so it must be excluded to compare apples-to-apples.

This morning when I looked at today’s blog entry I almost spit my coffee out. I’ve been in these units and they are teeny wheeny and they have small rooms and they are pathetic. The outside garden concept is nice.

This place is worth and $200,000. I don’t care what the rent comparison is......................

As this market spirals down, and we find out that Orange County has at least 10% more residences than people to live in them, rents will start to decline. A place like this will be renting for under $1400 in about 3 years.

I have heard that Canyon View has an almost prep school like environment.  API is very high, something like 940-950 I think.  Northwood isn’t actually that best known for academics as Uni is the academic HS of choice in Irvine. 

I haven’t wanted to live in the Canyon View area as I’ve heard the kids there have some pretty high stress levels.  I’d actually prefer my kids go to school somewhere with a little less pressure but still with the chance to be pushed academically if they are gifted.  You only get to be a kid once!

$2350 to rent that place is a bit much.  That’s expensive even compared to West LA.

I can see it selling in the low $300’s eventually, but I know little about the location.  Whoever built that subdivision sure knows how to pack people in tightly.  I don’t think martians would even bother landing there.

What would a massive recession do to rent prices?  Have rents taken a dive previously?

You can’t borrow money to rent a home, you rent money to buy it.  Get it?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing after looking at the kitchen photo.  It has a cramped, studio feel to it.

Well said, I agree about parents placing too much pressure on kids, particularly in Irvine.
Your story about the couple willing to lose a substantial amount of money renting their house and buying a new home in this school district really illustrates the point.
Do you think this is common in Irvine or are these people an exception?

Renters are much more flexible than potential buyers.  We can slice and dice all we want trying to claim more premium status, but in the end, rentals really boil to how many beds, baths and garages does it have for 90% of the rental market.

Last downturn, there were discounts all over the place.

As for how good the schools are...where would the kids live in a unit this small? Is this more of an empty nester unit? The schools don’t matter.

I don’t put much emphasis on GRM.  Just do on posts as many people use it here.  Even if equivalent rent prices were to fall by 10%, my home will be a good buy decision on a monthly cashflow basis for a renter at an interest rate of 7% after another 20% price drop. 

Assuming rents fall by no more than 10% and interest rates climb by no more than 1-1.50%, the bottom is no further than 20% on my particular property here in Irvine.  Today, it’s renting for $2800 and selling for $575-600K.  By the time my 1600sf detached 3/2 gets down into the high $400s, it will likely be a good buy.

Ever see ‘Pump Up The Volume?’ I wonder if anything similar to that happens in real life.  Pirate radio in Irvine anyone?

Maybe Hillary Clinton can run on that platform?  “If you vote for me, I’ll rollback rents to the same level as the last time a Clinton was President”. 

Think about it --- rents falling back to the level they were when ole Bill was fighting impeachment, lobbing missles into Afganistan to try to take about Bin Laden, etc??  Now think about how long ago all that seems. C’mon folks, be realistic.

Astute analysis OP.  Must have those brain cells extremely hard to come up with that one.

You’re rent NSR, my 1000sf 2/2 IAC in 1999 for $1600 WAS discounted.  Inflation has gone up 20% at least since then, so $1920 will probably be a discounted price for the same kind of place during this recession.  Makes sense if you consider it would rent for $2200 today.

A rent rate of $1700 on this property would far exced the discounting seen on rents during the last recession.

But why is demand low for buying 490K houses when it’s high for renting the same house for more per month in the long run? (Leaving aside Ipo’s estimate that it’s about 7% high - 450K might be better for the real breakeven) The reason is that most expect house prices to drop further, because of the inventory overhang, which is only there because of the expectation. So prices are dropping, but ultimately because people expect them to be dropping - herd behavior. Same on the way down as it was on the way up.

I’m hoping I can pick up that currently rented Irvine home from the NW owners on the cheap.  I’d be happy to stop the bleeding for them, especially if we can go private party and pay zero realtor commissions.

Lots of families with only one child in Irvine… There’s a bunch in my neighborhood.  Many families with two kids living in 1250-1400sf.

I own a house and can say with confidence based on 10 years of experience that the sundries are comparable to the interest deduction, which I also ignored. Well, not in our case because our house is almost entirely paid off, but that makes for a very low cost of owning too. A more precise model is of course great and you’re welcome to do one if you wish, but until you have you can’t claim it will contradict my results.

When you sell the house, you will get *every penny* of your principal back, unless you’re shortselling or jinglemailing. If you’re a responsible owner and borrowers you can’t count principal payments as a cost. They are a forced savings, an entirely different thing.

I’ve owned for years too.  They are not comparable.  Nor is the HOA, Mello Roos, Property Taxes, Insurance negligible.  Nor is the cosmetic touch up needed to sell in anything but a bull market.  Nor is the locked location standpoint.  Nor is a plumber call.  Nor the special assessments from the HOA because they’ve mismanaged projects and over run costs.

Why is demand renting versus buying?  It’s really simple.  Renting is running near half out of pocket compared to owning.

I KNEW IT..
YOU ARE A REALTOR…

The fact is there are only so many buyers in the market.

During the boom, the number of buyers was inflated by at least 50% over the expected number because of financial “inovations” (or FREE MONEY TO ANYONE W A PULSE)

look at autos… used to sign 3 year leases, then they went to 5 year leases, sure the first year or two voume was up but now volume is down because people keep cars 3 years instead of 5.

same w houses, fewer people need houses now because they were oversold in the boom years and now the market is flooded.  combine that w drying up of free money and no one is in a hurry to buy and you get the perfect storm.

in a normal market, if you only had 6 months of inventory and normal lending conditions and no recession your point might make sense, now it’s just like your cherring on against the tide.

OC also has the highest number of triplets in the world too because of IVF!

The straw buyer would be utilizing a purchase money mortgage which are non-recourse, so the lender cannot go after any of their assets. Plus retirement accounts like 401Ks are exempt from lawsuits anyway. The only negative to the straw buyer is a lowered FICO score, and if they are deemed by the IRS to be a non-owner occupant, taxes on the lender’s loss. If they are an owner occupant by the new law congress just passed, they will not have a tax bill.

The price of a Honda Accord is actually less in one of the high volume SoCal dealers than in any in TN.

RE is not the only expense that you gotta take into account when looking at the cost of living.

And I’ll bet that during the winter season tomatoes and fresh fruits are cheaper in Irvine than in TN.

Besides, I don’t think the St. Petersburg and New York Philharmonics ever stop in TN.

I’m not bashing Irvine at all. I would very much like to visit SoCal at some point in time. I love reading all the different perspectives and such. I am sure I would rather have you all as neighbors than the white trash I’m currently putting up with.

I live one of those shoddily constructed newer Cal Pac homes and in 6.5 years I have called the plumber twice, not had any electrical problems - although I did use an electrician to run some power for some scounces we put up, and had zero special assessments from my HOA.  Never had a broken or repaired appliance either, besides our washer, which we brought with us when we moved and it was ten years old.  Maintenance costs on a new or newer home are considerably less… Repairs and maintenanced have probably averaged only $25/month for me.  Not exactly a prohibitive number in a buy vs. rent analysis.

at 6% interest, interest deductions should be worth about 1.5% of property value per year. Where do you live to make those incidentals considerably higher? Anyway, on this property HOA+taxes is about 7,000, which *is* about 1.5% so they *do* roughly balance here. I’m also with Ipo on repairs and maintenance. If they’re a big number, you managed to find a money pit and are the exception.

it strikes me as silly to complain about white trash in Tennessee:  it is like moving next to a garbage dump and then complaining about the smell:  it is known as the coming to the nuisance doctrine.  Personally, i am quite fond of white trash, them is my kinfolk/ancestors.  Being middle-aged, i was weaned watching white trash TV: Gomer Pyle, the Beverly Hillbillies, and my all-time favorite:  Hee-Haw. 

Hee-Haw especially.  They don’t make shows like that no more.

Alan, there *are* people with money to buy right now. They are choosing to rent, as demonstrated by the high rent prices. This is a rational decision as long as prices are falling, but once they are stable anywhere marginally below current prices it won’t be (for people planning to stay for a while, of course).

No, I’m not a realtor. LOL. If you knew me, you’d realize how ridiculous that would be.

This isn’t generic. Irvine seems to have one of the best rent/buy ratios in Southern California. But with interest rates at 6%, very low by historic standards, 208 is a reasonable price-rent multiplier, only somewhat high. Just as it was crazy for people to ignore fundamentals during the inflation of the bubble it’s crazy to ignore fundamentals during the pop.

Don’t fool yourself, Zornudo....You can find plenty WT here in OC (and even Irvine). Irvine is a large city (200k population, 55 or so sq miles), and like any other large geography, there are pockets of less than desireable areas with an inordinate amount of monster F-150’s.  For instance, today’s house is NOT in a WT area, hence the neighborhood premium discussed here.

As shiny just indicated, Westpark II (where he apparentely lives) is a neighborhood where you might find a lot of WT.

LOL...sounds like you’re a housing bull in disguise you knife catching Decepticon!

Reversion to the mean...price to rent ratio.  It will correct to back to the low 20s....but will over shoot.  Thus the $180k target add on the fact it’s a piece of crap.

What is IVF?

I am waiting to buy somewhere around the 200-225 per sq. foot. area. Irvine is super overpriced and I am starting to feel uncomfortable being white and a minority here. A lot of these asians buy at these stupid prices because they think that prices have always been this high.

That is ridiculous:  West Park is dominated by the furthest thing from white trash:  relative newcomers from Pacific Rim countries who value education.  Education is like kryptonite to white trash.

LOL… I thought the same thing when I saw this.  I think $180k

But tell it to our friend knife catcher ipoplaya

Don’t forget the $250/500k tax free gain on sale.  What other investment has that perk?  None.

LOL...nice racist comment there.  I’m sure Asians weren’t the only ones taking advantage of the free money and I’m sure they’re in the minority of foreclosures.

BTW Alan, where did you 50% increase in buyers figure come from?  My guess is out of you A**!

I didn’t say the WT dominated in Westpark, just that you would find a higher % of it there than other Irvine neighborhoods.  Please see comments below from “Westpark Renter” which support my thesis perfectly.  FYI, however, the schools in Westpark are not known for their excellence. Culverdale sucks and Westpark Elem is not much better, and also has the strike of being a year-round school.  Only upside is they changed boundaries this year to where older Westpark (formerly known as WP II) now attends Uni.

I know of what I speak --- I rent in Westpark right now for convenience, but will DEFINITELY vacate prior to my child starting Kindergarten.

are you denoting the neighborhood along the 405 as westpark II?  I am in the newer section of Westpark as compared to those homes but I believe it is still in the Uni High school district: multiple of my neighbors have their kids going there, it is considered the holy grail for the Irvinites I know so I am surprised you denigrate the schools.

“Countrywide says foreclosures highest on record”

I think people want to know when Countrywide will “foreclose”!

I have a post coming up on Monday that goes into great detail on the cost of ownership.

In-Vitro fertilization

As I understand correctly, they used to call the oldest area (over to about San Leandro?) WP I, and then the 80’s section (over to Barranca) WP II, and the 90’s part (served by Plaza Vista School) WP III --- but now I think they have cosolidated it to be just “Westpark” all the way from 405 to Barranca, and Westpark II for the area built in the 90’s.  I could be wrong though.

Anyway, I don’t dispute that Uni is great, although I suspect in the next 5-10 years it will be overtaken by Northwood as the “premier” Irvine HS as the areas south of 405 continue to age and there are less school age kids. I tend to focus on the Elem schools more at this point, and was not impressed with either Culverdale or Westpark Elem...And we went as far as touring the schools and talking to the administrators as we were going through our decision tree on Irvine neighborhoods.

Let me reaffirm my contention. Asians who come in from another country don’t remember when houses in Westpark were 399k in 2000. They assume that prices have always been high. Thus they have nothing to compare the current prices to and they buy it. As to the racist comment, all people have at least a little racism in them. If they say they don’t they’re just lying. I am just saying when I walk around Westpark and there’s 12 asians to my one white person I kind of feel out of place that’s all. So get off your high horse Optimus Prime. Great name. Just another geek.  So go pop in another star trek dvd or matrix dvd and wish that you could have a date with a woman. LOL!!!!!!

Kids can share a bedroom. Crazy, I know. My poor kids.

i read calculated risk dude…

tanta has many graphs

the one I’m referring to is annual housing units sold in the USA

it was mostly stable but spiked about 6 mil/yr but spiked up to i think 10 mi during the free money bubble.  tanta expects sales to fall this year to as i recall 4.8 mil/units.  the excess units (10 mil - 6 mil) sold during the bubble can be considered pre-sales form future years, depressing next’s years sales until supply demand normalize.

Read tanta dude, your the one talking out of his A***

Didn’t you folks get the memo?  Americans need an incremental increase of least 1,000 additional sq ft per child, as well as at least 1,000 additional pounds of steel and glass for their SUVs for each additional child.  1,000 sq ft home is fine for a couple....But you need at least 3,000 sq ft with two kids.  A CR-V is fine with no kids, but with two you need at least a Yukon Denali XL for two kids. 

How do they do it in Europe and Asia?

LOL....wonder what area you live in.  It’s more 5 to 1 Caucasians to Asians with a little mix of Persians and such in my neighborhood in Irvine.  BTW...nice jab at my name but I am married.  So flame elsewhere

I agree, all people have a hint of racism in them...they just hold it in instead of just single out a group like you.

How many people have benefited from that tax break?

Typically, the proceeds of a home sale go towards the purchase of another home, so they don’t really enjoy the “appreciation” of their home investment - except in the form of their new, larger home.  It would be ridiculous if the government “taxed” this transaction.

Now, if a person sells their home, rents for a spell while the market crashes about them and then purchases a home later after their tax break money has appreciated substantially, then I’d say the break worked to their advantage.  I don’t know too many people doing this.

the knoxville symphony orchestra actually has a good rep.  in any case, if fine arts, museums, other high culture things are your bag, you’ll avoid OC like the plague.  and the idea that laguna is any kind of artist’s colony is best left in the 70s, unless one considers investing an art form.

If this home isn’t covered by any restrictions on remodeling (is it part of an HOA that doesn’t allow it, etc), and if I were to move in to a place like this that felt cramped, I’d see about removing interior non-load bearing walls and making a more open, brighter space. The ‘great room’ has been trendy lately, but in small spaces it really does help.

(I don’t know the floorplan, so I don’t have even the faintest idea if it’s possible or would even help)

And that gas range looks like the cheapest possible model. If it comes with the home, and it bothers you, sell it and get something you like instead. $600-1000 gets you a ridiculously nice range. Don’t turn down a home for something easily changeable like a kitchen range.

You bully!

I’ll bet you make your kids walk or ride their bikes to school too!

Oh, the humanity…

Hey renter, did you ever consider that asians can read, understand math, etc?  “Assume that prices have always been high"… They don’t need to have lived here to figure out what prices used to be… Think about what you are saying.  If you move to Phoenix, are you capable of learning about historical housing prices there if you so choose? 

You are talking about people whos kids prop up the API scores of IUSD schools, especially so where there are larger concentrations.  Somehow you think they aren’t intelligent enough to make prudent buying decisions for themselves?  Plaza Vista ranks out better than other Westpark schools likely because its 56% asian.  Culverdale and Westpark Elementary are 44%.  These are families that put a huge premium on education…

The asians you have issue with have probably been better savers traditionally, often live in higher concentrations (with three generations in a house, double up the kids in bedrooms, etc.), so they can probably afford to spend more.

I got the Armada when the 2nd kid came… Why pay a premium for the Denali when I could have a better-built gas guzzlin’ monster from Nissan?

Have to say, I am a big fan of the on-board entertainment system.  My son can watch a DVD with the ole wireless headphones and I can listen to whatever tunes I want.  Great invention.

but the ability to see the market eat all of the down payment is truly priceless

but at least they don’t have to walk to school in the snow…

Yeah, those kids are such babies nowadays.  I had to walk a mile through the snow with holes in my shoes to school.  Or was that two miles?