Sayonara, fake equity.

Real prices always return, regardless of what the idiots tell you.  Look for 50% off soon.
——-

I LOVE IT!

Another mortgage company gets screwed because they loaned money to a borrower who couldn’t repay.

From Wikipedia:

“Moral hazard is the prospect that a party insulated from risk may behave differently than it would if it were fully exposed to the risk.”

I guess the RISK has reappeared in a major way!

Take a gander at those monthly homeowner dues on top of debt service, property taxes and insurance.  North of $250.  Wow.

Re: photo of you.  Nice.  Needs an open bottle of booze beside the mouse though.

Supposing you actually have the money for the down payment, you’re looking at a monthly mortgage payment of almost 4200.00 including the HOA junk dues.

Ouch.

Better hope the wife doesn’t lose her second job and that walmart is hiring door greeters when you reach retirement age.

It’s an SFR but they wont list the lot size. Is that last pic the side yard? Maybe the back yard is only a few feet deep?

I kinda like the curb appeal although I would like a different color.

So it sold for 355k in 2000, so I think it should be worth 455k today. Assoc dues of $253….no thanks! I pay assoc dues where I live, but I get water, sewer, trash and gardening along with the pool etc.

50% easily.  This place is worth 200K maybe in a sane market.

In AZ, we’ve been hearing about California’s inflated house prices well before the year 2000. 

We had relatives leave town in the mid to late 90’s with a boatload of cash for their house which they used to pay in full on a house out of state.

I would not use year 2000 prices as the bottom.  Most likely 1997-1998.

What’s the point of buying a detached place if you gotta pay HOA? Legalized extortion.

Yard? It backs directly to the street behind it.

http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuMTIrQXBwbGUrVkxZKyUyYytJcnZpbmUlMmMrQ0ErOTI2MDIlN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NTcuMDQwNzI5ODM4MzYwOSU3ZS0zOS43MjY1NjI1JTdlMTcuMzkyNTc5MjcxMDU3OCU3ZS0xMTAuNzQyMTg3NQ==

So basically you have a house that occupies the entire lot and any time you need to go out and stretch your legs you need to go into a shared area. Did you ever watch one of those reality shows about the lifers in prison who are confines 23 hours a day? Even they get more room out of their cells than can be found on the “patio”.

Don’t be so pessimistic.

The HOA works very hard.  Who else is going to put chlorine in the pool, hire illegals to mow the lawn, and leave violation notices for you when you leave a box in your garage that can be seen by someone driving by.

That’s totally worth 250 a month to me.

Thanks for the map link. Wow, I am reeally confused.

Is this and SFR? It looks like it is attached to another unit, or are my eyes deceiving me. Now, I did notice in the listing details that it says it has one common wall.

Anyone want to clarify this?

Anyway, woooh, no lot at all in either case. Backing to an alley….this really should not be and SFR.

I know for a fact that your ears are not that long.

No, we bought a smaller place in Orange (a nice but less desirable city) 10 years ago at the bottom of the California market cycle. Estimating from my price/sq ft and applying premiums for inflation, size, and an Irvine location, this place should be worth about 400K at the bottom of the cycle and 600K at the top. If 30 year rates stay at 6%, you can tack on another 20%. That actually would make this a passable asking price for top of the cycle at these rates, although not a good buy, because, well, top of the cycle. 50% is too much.

What happens if the bank does not bid at the courthouse auction?  What if the highest bid was $600,000?  Why does the bank bid the loan amount?  Why don’t they let it go for the $600,000?  Or do they start the bidding at the loan amount?  It seems to me the bank would want to be rid of the property and the best way of doing that would be to let it go for market price on the courthouse steps.  What am I missing?

In PA today you are in the grip of a second snowstorm in a week.  Don’t lie to me… my wife is in Ohio this week.  It’s frickin’ cold according to her.

Our low here was 40 degrees last night.  I noted a bit of frost on some roofs.

Brrr…..

Now, what were you saying about RE prices again?

on the courthouse steps, it’s CASH. all cash. not many homebuyers have 20% for the DP, let alone 100% on the courthouse steps.

I totally agree.

This is NOT A single family RESIDENCE.

This is a TOWNHOME.

$344 per sq ft for a townhome? even in irvine, this is ridiculous.

You’re assuming the bust 10 yrs ago will not be that much different than the bust coming upon us now.

The boom was far, far higher than anything previously seen.

The future bust will be devastating compared to the last one.

This one was an REO with EMC. The other property in the area that was taken back by EMC around 88 is 187 Rhapsody, now listed for 759.

400K, we’re talking almost a half a million dollars for an average home??? Wow.

This house will never fall to $200K AZ.  Maybe it’s worth that in some other city, but not in the Northpark area of Irvine.  It is very well located (yes yes tonye, I know it’s northeast of the 5 but still), has good amenities, good schools, guards at the gate, etc.  This is a nicely done area of Irvine nestled up against the foothills.  A 2800sf SFR in this neighborhood is in escrow for over $1M.  A 2400sf SFR in this area sold for over $900K recently.  Market value today (i.e. knife catcher price) is likely in the high $600s.  The furthest it will drop will be to $350-400K or so.

The term nowadays for it Mr. Vincent is “paired home”.  It shares one common wall with another residence.

It is very like the one IR featured recently on Autumn.

“..... nestled up against the foothills”  huh huh uhhhhhh..he said “nestled”

Love your picture IR.

Anybody know anything about Vail.  The idiot brother in law of my best client who is embroiled in so many lawsuits (not with me as atty, thank the goddess) and so much cr*p that you could write several novels about it is proposing to spend money to fix up a Vail property and then sell it.  (They are not making any more views like that. . . )

21% off is a very questionable number for this property!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I looked at the sale history for 12 Apple Valley in the MLS Database and found the following information:

1.  Home was listed on 8/21/06 for $819K
**Condition:  Very poor - I peviewed this property while it was on the market for sale.
2.  Home was closed on 10/16/06 for $869K
**Lender:  Homefield Financial for both 1st ($695,200) and 2nd ($173,800) ——> 100% financing.
3.  Home was listed for lease on 11/1/2006
**Owner was an investor.
4.  Home became REO on 9/27/07
**Borrower probably skipped the very first payment.

So one ought to wonder if it even possible for anyone to want to pay $50K above asking price for a poor condition home.

Many many REOs featured on this blog had similar profile as this one.

HOAs don’t work hard, but they do serve a purpose.  They spend every nickel or save it for future repairs/maintenance…  Mine recently had all the common driveways and streets slurry sealed so they look all nice and new.  Many of the streets in Irvine are private, not public, so the HOAs are responsible for their maintenance.  Some of what we pay HOAs would normally go toward property taxes.  Had some ground shift and it started to take out a block wall.  Who got it fixed, the HOA.  Had a common area tree root system start undermining someone’s patio, who got it fixed, the HOA.  HOAs often do the dirty work and get things done that could take regular owners a long time to work out.  Fence is broken or needs painting.  This can often be a problem between two owners.  Who takes care of it, the HOA.

I pay $150 per month between two associations and I am glad I do.  I hear the landscape maintenance company guys mowing and blowing right now as a matter of fact.  Our HOA spent over $3K on a holiday party last weekend.  Thought it was a great use of funds - catered in, tented out, booze, tunes, had 100+ people show up to enjoy the festivities.  So in this case, the HOA is helping to develop a since of community in the neighborhood.  That is something that is sorely missing in many Irvne neighborhoods IMO so it’s good that HOAs help in that regard.

lawyerliz,

The estate of the late Ken Lay of the late Enron Corp. has one that already has granite! appliances!! and a BBQ pit!!! for sale there for a few mil.

IR,

I know you are a saver…but no flat screen LCD?

Must have slipped into realtor-speak!

I understand it is cash, but what I want to know is why does the bank always bid at the amount it has in, (the loan amount)?  Why doesn’t the bank just let the property go for whatever folks bid it to on the courthouse steps?  Why does the bank think they can get more by listing it?

I have mixed emotions about the HOAs.  Yes, I agree that they do serve a purpose.  Having been in neighborhoods without them where less-than-desirable neighbors tend to co-habitate.

I just resent the constant nickle and diming each year and the stupid things they nit-pick about.  My apartment complex is able to afford the illegal alien labor, pool chlorine without nickle and diming us each year and harping about “increased costs” like the HOAs always do.

150.00 seems like too much (but still low compared to some that I’ve seen).

I lived in Vail for a season when I was 18.

I would be really surprised to see this place stop declining at 350K.  I don’t see what is so special about it that you do, but being that you know the area better you may be able to call it better.

First payment default fraud? Sure sounds like it. If that is the case, it can be fairly argued this was not a market purchase and the 21% drop does not represent the market. I can’t help wondering how many legitimate transactions used this as a comp?

Ok Tonye I’ll bite. 

I won’t lie about our weather.  Our daytime HIGHS here in ID have been under 30 for almost 2 weeks!  We got another inch of snow last night with 2-4 coming tonight.  We have a huge ice rink in the back yard that the wife and kids built. Hopefully the plow won’t come by until tomorrow morning so the kids, their friends, and I can do some sledding in the street tonight.  We will probably sit in the spa tonight, which is really cool when it is snowing and absolutely silent.  Tomorrow afternoon I will probably go snowmobiling with a friend in the mountains.  Ever wonder what it’s like to ride along trails and through meadows with trees covered with snow on a 145hp machine that has a top speed of 107mph?  Did I mention that the trailhead is 8 minutes from my house?

I know it isn’t as fun or exciting as walking around Irvine Speculum without a jacket, or sitting on the patio at pei-wei, but we manage.

The weather is how you want to look at it. Believe it or not the cold was one item on our positive list when we relocated.  I love winter but I was also loved rainy days in California, and never understood why people whined about no rain then whined after a day of it.  I guess I am just a freak.

huh huh uhhhhhh..he said “nestled”

Love the Beavis and Butthead reference.

I wonder if these are just standard loss mitigation procedures that have been in place for decades. By the time they get around to reviewing and revising them, this debacle will be over…

We’re taking a trip to PA the day after XMas and I can’t wait after a horribly hot summer here. 

Save some snow!

“paired home”

Thanks for the info ipoplaya.

Here is what i found so far:
Definition - two single-family homes with a shared wall

“Unlike traditional condos, paired homes enable residents to own both the home and the land upon which it’s been built. This “fee simple” approach gives them full title to their asset and a greater sense of ownership. It also gives them the responsibility of maintaining their own yards. “

http://www.djc.com/news/re/11187279.html

Hey IR;
I’m waiting for the appropriate time when you open with Alvin and the Chipmonks “Please Christmas, Don’t be late”!

some more info, but still not sure how to classify the property. Is this classified LEGALLY as a Townhome or SFR? Or do we now have a new classification?

“A paired home is a form of townhouse that looks more like traditional single-family luxury residences because of the way it is designed, sited and built. Some of these communities offer on-site natural amenities that can be enjoyed by a greater number of homeowners.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2006/11/13/focus8.html

“Irvine Speculum…” I love it!

What’s going to happen to that place once the consumers are tapped dry? Oh wait, I forgot, that won’t ever happen!

IR,
I can see quite a few.  It was very unfortunate for the overpaid buyers.  At least the REOs are driving down the price for the new buyers.

They bid the amount of their loan because then they can carry it on their books at the full loan amount and, thus, not take an immediate write-off.  If the loan were $720,000 and they bid $600,000, they would carry the (depreciating) asset at $600,000 instead of $720,000 and have to take an immediate $120,000 write off.

BUT—time is running out for them.  The auditors will force them to write these REOs down to “lower of cost or market.”  And the auditors will be looking closely at how the banks value their REOs because nobody wants to end up like Arthur Anderson.  And when the auditors force the banks to reprice their REO inventory, it’s gonna get really, really ugly.

Ya know ... that is what I think it is.  The lenders have their procedures in place for loss mitigation, and those procedures are fine for normal times.  But, the lenders have not yet acknowledged the current market and they need to change their policies to adapt.  It seems the lenders are behaving just like the sellers and think that this is a temporarary blip and things will be fine in a month or two.  Boy, this is gonna get ugg-g-g-g-gly!

In Florida that is called a “duplex”.  If there are 3 of them stuck together it is a “triplex”.

In Balto where I come from if there are 3 or more of the stuck together, they are called “rowhouses”. 

Which is what they are.

If this property had a bedroom and full bath down stairs, 2 car garage with full drive way (to park 4 cars), and hopefully at least a smallish backyard, I’d consider buying at ~$500k as primary residence.  If it was a condo or town-home, ~$400k.

But I cannot see if this property has a drive way?  I wouldn’t buy a 4 bedroom SFR without 4 parking spaces (2 in garage + 2 in drive way).  Condos I can understand if it only came with 2 or 3 car garage, but from experience I don’t trust street parking unless the community has craploads of guest parking.

I think he means the “Irvine Rectum”.

That place is the biggest joke. Its nothing but an overpriced adolescent playground for 15-25 year olds with fake id’s and mommy and daddy’s credit cards.

“Sweet! This Rip-Curl t-shirt only costs 30 bux!” Nevermind you can get the same shirt at the Rip-curl outlet in San Clemente for $10.

Not to mention all of the restaurants like Fox sports bar and Habaneros playing monotonous back-beats and sporting crowds of hippies with dreadlocks wearing gucci watches and $200 jeans.

There are only two types of homes: Single Family Residences and Apartments.

SFR include:
A home you can walk all the way around in, preferably naked, and not walk into your neighbors bedroom.

Apartments:
Any shared dwelling be it stucco, brick, or straw and mud, including condos, townhomes, duplexes/gemini/twin, triplexes, 4+plexes, paired homes, patio homes, row houses, lofts, etc.

In short, if you have someone living directly beneath, above, or on any side of you, then you live in an apartment. Anything else is just RE marketing fluff.

IR,
Nice physique as well. I see your desk and computer, where did you hide the Bowflex and treadmill?
Seeing your picture makes me regret wasting all that time working out at the gym. Never thought you could develop abs like that sitting in front of the computer. Kudos!

You like the quiet in your spa but then you’ll go snow mobiling through the beautiful snow covered hills?  Something doesn’t jive.  One thing about healthy Californians, if they were there they’d snow shoe down those trails.  Stay fit, stay thoughtful and stay ethical.

The picture also seems to be missing the bong, child pr0n, decapitated animals and the seedy hookers.

Close.

No cigar.

Chuck Ponzi

He’s kind of devilishly handsome, eh?

I wonder how many folks are considering that decreasing home prices may not, in the short term, cause homes to become any more affordable for those needing a loan to purchase.

This property went at auction for only $120K more than the asking price for yesterday’s condo at auction with no other bids and is sooooo much better than yesterday’s property.

AZ - I think you are missing the point that different areas have different premiums for the land.  You keep looking at the houses featured on the blog and suggesting what the physical structure should cost but not taking into account the premium of the land. 

This is a SFH in a very nice community.  I imagine it can rent for close to $3000 in a normal market.  It might rent for less now as there seems to be a lot of rental competition.  In any case, with a 160 multiplier, the house comes to $480,000.  Personally, I would jump into this house if it hit $500K.

Here are some interesting definitions I found:

Single Family Residence - A residential property on a single lot designed for the use of one family. It can be an attached or a detached dwelling.
Single Family Residence
A residential dwelling unit occupied by a single family. The dwelling unit may be detached from other dwelling unites or may be part of one or more attached units.

more confusion -
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE (SFR)
A standard home with no common areas, no homeowners’ dues or sharing of common walls. A home intended to be occupied by 1 family.

Single Family Residence: A structure used or maintained as a single unit, notwithstanding whether it shares one or more walls with another unit, if it has direct access to a street and shares neither heating facilities, hot water equipment, not any other essential facility or service with any other dwelling unit (note that row or townhouses may fit within the definition of a single family residence).

IR/Others,

What is holding back banks from starting to sell their REO property portfolio on this market? Is it:
1) Fear of triggering a faster downward price spiral
2) Lack of infrastructure to start valuing these properties and selling them
3) Some government assurance that the lack of liquidity at banks will be fixed and that banks should not start selling off the properties at distress prices based on this assurance.
4) Play the waiting game
5) Other factors?

I will appreciate the comments of all you knowledgeable bloggers here.

I hate to say it , but at $600K it looks like a deal. This is a good-looking house.

But I am comparing it to overpriced houses at the peak of the rampage in marginal Chicago neighborhoods like mine, where any SF piece of garbage with 2000 sq ft or more got $650K or more no matter if it was 92 years old and the yard was filled with weeds and garbage and the place was one day from collapsing from neglect.

So, since we are off peak, I would say about $500K for this place. It is an above average house, attractive and new, on a gated street, and it has 2100 sq ft. Even today this house would bring $600K in my neck of the woods, and I don’t live in the best branch of the woods by any stretch.

In a fine Chicago suburb, like Winnetka or north Evanston, it would be $700K at least.

I can’t see a place like this, in a fine neighborhood no less, selling for less than $500K.

But maybe my brain is so addled from the wonderland real estate market of Chicago, that everything looks cheap.

If this place goes in the $400K range, we are in worse trouble than even I thought.

No way could it sell for $200K, anywhere, not even in places like suburban Detroit.

Wow.  Priced_Out_IT_Guy, you have some issues.  Why don’t you tell us how you REALLY feel?  If that is how you view the area I hope you don’t reside anywhere near Irvine.  You just have so much anger.

” stay ethical.”?  I am somehow unethical because my form of recreation differs from yours?  Excuse me while I vomit. 

I agree about staying fit, that is why I like to hunt.  Elk and especially Moose are very lean meats!

The thing that I don’t understand is why some people in CA seem to have the impression that their “nice communities” are at so much more of a premium than any other nice community in the country.

You can say that “Oh well its CA and so many people want to live here - it’s high demand”, but that’s nonsense.

Everyone in the United States did not just wake up one morning in 1995 and say “I need to move to CA, it’s so much better there”.

A lot of you guys are still high off of all of the groupthink that convinced so many of you to over-extend your finances to “get in” to a house since “everyone else was doing it”.

CA had the technology boom in the 90’s which got the bubble rolling with all the new high-paying technology jobs moving in.  Then that went bust in 2001 and the government stepped in with low interest rates to keep the party roaring.

Now it’s like any house in a decent neighborhood is talked about like it is some super-special that is worth more than the same neighborhood somewhere else.

I don’t care what you guys pay for your houses.  Over-extend yourself to the brink of bankruptcy; I don’t care.  Just keep it contained to your own state.  Stop cashing in your fake equity and bringing it over to my state and pricing me out of the market that I already live and work in.

I’ve been in my house for 6.5 years so and my HOA has not once raised rates.  That is $95 or my $150.  For four of the six years, they even gave everyone the gift of free dues in December.  Didn’t happen this year though…  Less cash has been coming in with delinquencies, defaults, REOs, etc.

rkp,

this may be listed as a SFR, but it’s a townhome. there is no backyard, only what looks like a 7x9 patio.

“we are in worse trouble than even I thought. “

Welcome to the real world!

It has a driveway that you can park two cars on, two Hotwheels cars that is…  All the paired homes I have seen, this one included, have a garage in the back that opens on to a common alley-type street.  So your garage would face another garage most commonly, across a 20’ street.  The “driveway” is simply a little bit of concrete apron, perhaps 3-4’ wide, that connects the asphalt to your garage proper.

You can park two cars in the garage if you are lucky and have nothing to store in there, but end up parking on the street often.  There is typically no guest parking or parking stalls.

We were all over that topic in yesterday’s comments awgee…

Diana - yes, we way overshot on the way up so we might way overshoot on the way down. I tend to think not, though, because once houses cashflow it’s hard to keep the smart money out. If we we see another great depression then of course all bets are off.

AZDavid - there are a lot of things that people like about houses and will pay a lot for and OC has about all of them - great weather, nearby water, good jobs, and resort areas. OC houses will always be worth far more than Phoenix houses unless our economy really goes off the rails. For many people the benefits of living here aren’t worth that extra money but 99 of 100 Americans don’t live here. The parachuting cashout types are mostly a result of the insane house prices and will go back to normal once the prices do.

<blockquote cite=“I would be really surprised to see this place stop declining at 350K. I don’t see what is so special about it that you do, but being that you know the area better you may be able to call it better”>

AZ, as you know, location is the primary driver of value, much less than the structure itself.  Many folks would rather trade down in size to be in a desirable area.  Heck, I’d do an attached 1200 sf place if it was on the beach.  Point is, Irvine is more desireable than many parts of OC, which is more desireable than IE, and so on.  You get my drift.  Thus the blog, thus the traffic, thus your return visits.
I agree that values are way overblown, but 200k shows your lack of context and understanding of the dynamics of this area.  I believe Abe Lincoln said it best:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - John Milton

Hear ye, hear ye - AZDavidPhx has been hearing in AZ about CA’s inflated housing since before 2000.  Everyone RESET expectations!

Three years ago there were almost no REOs, so there was little if any staff for dealing with them. I suspect the lenders have not been able to staff up to deal with the onslaught of REOs they currently have. Plus, they don’t want to start taking all the write downs on their portfolios to recognize the truth, so they are letting them all pile up until they have the staff to sell them and the auditor pressure to correct their balance sheets.

we should start a poll.

I vote for it guy’s definitions.

It’s not fake equity if you cash it out.  It’s real dollars…  Maybe you should have moved to CA, bought a place a while back, cashed out, and then went to AZ to live like a king?  Looks like you can get a nice big place in Scottsdale, which I assume is the most costly area around Phoenix, for $700-750K right now. 

Probably $300-400K under a comparable place in Irvine.  For the extra $15K per year in interest that would cost me, I’d much rather live near the coast in a strong job market vs. the middle of the friggin’ desert.  I had an office in Scottsdale and have one in Tempe now so I spend a bit out there. 

My personal opinion, Phoenix is a hot nasty eyesore and ya got have some love for dirt to live there…  It has very few redeeming features.  Good golf maybe.  Lotsa dirt.  Some great sports teams.  Lotsa dirt.  Am I missing anything?

That’s not the way it works AZ.

When we reach retirement we sell our homes in California, move to Arizona, pay cash for our retirement homes and then enjoy having the rest of the money in the bank.

AZ - you make it sound like every square inch of land in America should be worth the same and that there shouldn’t be any notion of a land premium.  Thats just rediculous.  A beach front will cost more than inland.  A city center will cost more than the outer areas. 

You keep comparing Irvine communities to Arizona communities but housing prices in Arizona have no bearing to prices here.  Why?  Well at least for me, I am here and not in Arizona and I need a house here, not in Arizona.  So while I can get the same house for less in Arizona, it doesn’t mean anything.  My job is hear and my family is here.  So while I can cry about how overpriced CA is, I am not in any groupthink or high that is making me believe it is worth more or less than Arizona.  I am not even comparing or caring about Arizona and rather, making the decision based on what the pricing has historically been and what I can afford.

Senate passes FHA subprime help

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate on Friday overwhelmingly passed legislation that would expand the nation’s largest federal homeownership program in a move that could help struggling subprime borrowers avoid foreclosure.

The bill would loosen underwriting standards at the Federal Housing Administration so that the program can help 200,000 troubled borrowers save their homes, according to the overseers of the program.

The FHA is a Depression-era program conceived in 1934 that was designed to insure the mortgage payments of low-income borrowers who might have trouble winning a loan.

The U.S. House of Representatives has already passed its version of FHA reform, and now lawmakers will take the two versions of the bill to a conference where differences are worked out. The bill will then be presented to U.S. President George W. Bush to be signed into law.

Supporters of reform have said the program can be retooled to save hundreds of thousands of borrowers from foreclosure as the current mortgage crisis takes hold.

“HUD’s Federal Housing Administration can provide many homeowners with a fairer, more affordable, and more sustainable alternative to costly subprime loans,” Department of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson said in a prepared statement.

As envisioned, the FHA reform legislation would raise the current loan limit from $362,000 to at least $417,000, which is the same cap on loans that binds mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

The final vote was 93 lawmakers in favor and one against.

(Reporting by Patrick Rucker; Editing by Chizu Nomiyama)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071214/pl_nm/usa_subprime_fha_dc_4

also, many banks are still trying to get top-dollar for their REOs. while I wouldn’t buy right now even if rents were 2x what they are right now, I do know several people trying to buy REOs right now & if they offer anything lower than list, are getting “NO"s. maybe a counter for 1-2% less.

banks still believe the wishing prices. & they won’t sell for less until made to.

American-Screamer - I don’t understand how you can take enjoying the quiet from a spa and enjoying snow mobiling as a conflict of ethics.  I don’t know about you but I like going to the beach in the evenings and just relaxing listening to the calm waters but I also like taking a wave runner or speed boat out for some loud and noisy fun.  How is that any different?

Priced_Out_IT_Guy - I am not gung-ho about OC in general (grew up in West LA near SM and like the diversity) but to have such strong feelings about a shopping mall is beyond me.  Also, if you feel this way about Spectrum, I wonder how you feel about Fashion Island!  And to say that Spectrum is all high-end and fake…it has a freakin Red Robins!  Show me some $200 jeans in the Red Robin please…

“No way could it sell for $200K, anywhere, not even in places like suburban Detroit.”

You have to be seriously addled. Have you never lived or vistied anywhere else than Chicago or NY or LV?

This place wouldn’t sell for $200,000 in Nashville right now. & we’re not even completely out of our seller’s market.

It doesn’t have a yard.

For 4/3, that 2100 sq ft is tiny.

& with an attached wall, people here would think that it looks like a very nice duplex.

HOA dues are insurance paid to protect you from crappy neighbors.

“The Senate on Friday overwhelmingly passed legislation that would expand the nation’s largest federal homeownership program in a move that could help struggling subprime borrowers avoid foreclosure. ” by totally screwing the rest of you.

Merry Christmas, responsible tax payers!

I was highly against HOAs but there is a difference in neighborhoods with it and without.  Older neighborhoods with it tend to still maintain a nice and clean look and feel.

That being said, I think most HOAs cost too much and don’t do a good job with the funds.  As much as I like the idea of a block party hosted by the HOA, I would much rather keep that money and let the HOA just maintain the basics.  My parents very old neighborhood doesn’t have a HOA and yet has a very strong sense of community.  Neighbors frequently invite each other during their parties or BBQs.

I think an HOA should be limited to just maintaining the common area.  Also, there should be a limit on how much policing should be done.  I have heard horror stories of people getting notices for the height of their grass!

According to the tax records, this is considered a single family residence.  That determination is made by Orange County, not the Realtor.  The MLS shows this as a SFR that is attached.

Orange County SFRs usually are zoned as such because of the average size of the lots, which tend to be larger than condo lots.  The streets tend to be wider as well.

Orange County also has a an animal called “detached condo” which is usually a condo that is detached from neighbors on all four walls, but is too close to neighbors to consider it an SFR.

Hope that helps.

Land? There is no land in this place. The premium that Irvine commands could easily turn into a penalty at some point. If you look at many other So OC towns, they are much lower already, except for the beach areas. The schools are good in Irvine, but that place is 1 block from a tollway, and it has Tustin schools. People can put their kids in private school and still get a great deal on a house in So OC for the price of a factory lifestyle in an Irvine Corporation housing project.

You can find $200 jeans almost anywhere in OC, even at Walmart. I’d say about 50% of women under 30 in the OC have at least one pair of them.

Location? California? Time to wake up & smell the oleander. Yes, I like where I live (rent) - Carlsbad, CA. Combo of weather & proximity to the Pacific is hard to beat. But I have a family & have to think of the future.

California has the highest state personal income taxes in the nation & Arnold & the socialist legislature are mulling over raising them. Add in the fees we pay, the property tax, the sales tax, etc, and this place is an expensive place to live.

I move here from the East 30 years ago and it has changed dramatically. But I don’t think we’ve even seen the worse. The illegal problem is a massive problem for the state. The traffic just keeps getting worse.

And with the coming recession (Allen the Greenspan just came out saying a recession was on it’s way) - crime will go up and quality of life will go down. Razor wire anyone?

Look I’m trying to stay positive, but I am glad I rent and do not own. That makes it much easier if I choose to leave CA.

Even tho we could walk only 3/4s of the way around my childhood duplex, we had a front and back yard that you guys would call large, and the house had 8 rooms and a full basement.  I think that qualifies for a single family house.

The rooms were medium sized.

I used to have the same attitude about Phoenix until I spent time there multiple times on business. I grew up on the Gulf Coast in FL and I would much rather have the dry heat and desert flora of Phoenix than the nasty humidity and scrubby pines. It’s not so bad with Camelback mountain to enhance the views. And from what I’ve heard they have more potable water than we do due to underground aquifers.

I’m with AZ.  This place should drop to $420k Max purchase price.  Some of these posters here seem to be damage control realtors here to make things look rosy.

AZ - You can look at some of the responses to your comments and know all you ever need to know about the mentality of the people who live in Irvine.  The city is marinated in extra special sauce and served up with a side of wonderful.  There was a massive tech- er, internet boom there in the late 90s.  Most of those companies have since died, as I assume values will in the next couple of years.  Nice place, but not that nice.

I did exactly that!  I moved from Arizona to Irvine in 2001 and then cashed out in the Summer of 2006.  I moved to a much more affordable market in the Southeast.  Trust me - that equity was REAL.  Thank you to the knife catcher who bought my place.  I am pretty sure it was a 100% financed deal so thank you to the bank!

Maybe the word is “integrity”, and not “ethical”. That would explain seeming contradiction between peace and quiet for himself and his family one minute, and noisy polluter scaring off the wildlife and hikers the next day. He lacks integrity. But that is an ethical quality, so ...

” One thing about healthy Californians, if they were there they’d snow shoe down those trails.”

Darn straight.  Right after driving like maniac’s for two hours to the trailhead in their gas guzzling HELOC status vehicles.

I agree that different places have different premiums. 

One other major factor in housing prices is the economic potential of the area.  People who live in lower manhattan or silicon valley are really paying to be within driving distance of a major center of innovation and opportunity.  If you have skills that give you a plausible shot at taking advantage of that opportunity, it can be rational to pay a high price (both rent and housing) to live in that area.

I think the most reliable measure of how far prices have to fall is not “irvine prices should be equal to, say, st louis prices”, but rather Irvine prices should normalize to the long-term irvine rent-to-purchase-price ratio.  The rentals will come up a bit, the house prices will come down significantly, but both rent and home prices will still reflect the high level of economic opportunity that exists in so. cal. as opposed to say, detroit.

No, there are laws regarding foreclosure proceedings. They were established to protect homeowners from abuse during the great depression. Somebody who is professional may want to correct my impression, but all these steps are governed by law.

I think they’re finally starting to understand the true impact of this subprime mess…  Late 2009 at the earliest.  Sounds more realistic than a lot of the crap that’s been floating around out there, that’s for sure.

Fannie CEO: Housing Trouble Until 2009

Fannie Mae’s CEO told shareholders Friday he does not expect a housing market recovery until late 2009, “at the earliest,” and that the mortgage-finance company is strong enough to ride out the downturn.

http://finance.myway.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt_top.jsp?news_id=ap-d8thcn100&

I knew that my post was going to elicit a good response or two, but that’s what keeps it all fun.

I just want to say that what many of you may not realize is that the decisions that you make in California directly influence our market next door.

When all of you are taking out huge loans to pay off each others inflated mortgage and cash out to come and buy out here, it makes our house prices inflate and our salaries are a good 10K to 15K behind you which puts more economic pressure on local businesses to “keep up”.

The Phoenix real-estate market is way over-inflated now due to all of the out-of-state (California) speculation that went on during the boom.

You guys can say that I have no place in the conversation, but please keep in mind that your actions have repercussions outside of your own state.

Also, I don’t think that every place in the country has equal value.  There are places in Scottsdale, AZ that would make areas of Irvine look like a dump - yet the dumpy areas of Irvine are considered to be “premium” for no reason other than being where they are?

You can bash Phoenix as a sand pit or whatever all you want. 

People are moving here faster than they are to CA it seems some people find it tolerable.

Vail is special, ahem. The bigger they come, the harder they fall.