IR,

Well said.
——-

It is characteristic of late cycle capitalism that things are sold not on the basis of their superiority to other products or their intrinsic necessity but on the basis of how much status or good feeling they will create in the buyer.  To put it another way, a lot of the junk that we buy isn’t so much because we need it but because it will either show other people that we have “made it” or fill up the lonely place in us that we can’t seem to fill any other way.

I love watches, and I know that a $40 Timex will keep time better, with more functions (alarms, countdown timer, stopwatch, etc.) than a $5,000 Rolex.  However, for many men, having a Rolex is a sign that they have “made it” in the business world, or at least a way to convince others thay they are successful. 

It shouldn’t surprise us that housing has become a little like the Rolex watch, but it has.  I know a couple who remodeled their home not too long ago and vastly expanded their kitchen.  They have a huge marble-topped “island” thing in the middle of the kitchen.  Enormous amount of counter space, two ovens plus a “warming tray” (I think that is what it’s called)...a built in hot water line so they don’t have to heat water…boiling water comes out of a little tap in their sink.  They have a massive new refrigerator and dishwasher.  The irony is that this is a couple (two people) with one adult child living at home, and they are counting the days until he leaves.  Empty nesters who travel and eat out a lot…and yet they’ve just spent a fortune expanding their kitchen.  Why?  I am not sure exactly, but I’m pretty sure that it has nothing to do with their need for a place to cook meals. 

What Irvine Renter is alluding to today is that much of the status enhancement has been done with borrowed money, and the time is coming to pay up.  It will be fascinating to see what happens. It will be a bumpy ride for some people.

“Where is the Life we have lost in living?
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?”
—T.S. Eliot, “Choruses from ‘The Rock’”

Awesome song… link is busted though, others available, but not true.

Hey Jealousy
- Gin Blossom

Thanks for alerting me. I found a new one.

600k starter home? I dont think thats going to work anymore.

WaMu is out of their minds!

This place is almost exactly the same size and dimensions of the first home I bought in 1978. I paid 60k and my income was 20k. Thats three times income. What would the ratio be today at this price?

Based on the overhead, this place backs to Culver Dr. If true, do you think noise would be an issue?

I keep looking at southern California statistics and comparing it to other areas on homefair.com.  Now, the only reason I like the site is that its helped me in previous relocations (only one part of due diligence).  What I continually see is areas where home prices have no prayer of being supported by salaries.  What fraction of so-cal incomes are REIC based anyway?  I know in the OC it must be tremendous. 

Its making me wonder if I’ll be in this state in two years; my patience to wait out the downturn is ebbing.  $452/ft sq has no appeal to me either…

Got popcorn?
Neil

From the description - “House is sold as-is and where-is…”

Bummer. I would have purchased it had they moved it oceanfront.

I have never seen “where-is” as a condition of the sale - unless this house is actually a motorhome.

After 20 years we left southern Cal.  and moved to southern Oregon.  I was always amazed at the pretentious display of consumerism that is “the O.C.”  While shopping at Fashion Island my favorite thing was just to sit and watch the 20-30-40 something set get out of the luxory automobile, dressed in their designer clothes toting their new designer handbag, tripping around in 5’ heels.  Usually they had brought the cute little designer dog along for the day.  These women are always full of botox with plenty of plastic surgery top and bottom.  The OC truly is a phenomenon unlike any other.  Here in Oregon, NOBODY cares what handbag is on your shoulder.  They don’t care if you’re driving a Benz, and having a trout pout and big boobs won’t get you anywhere faster than just being yourself.
I have always been secure in the fact that because we have “saved” real money and it’s in the bank, never did pull the equity from our home to buy stuff, and lived modestly, that anything the OC girls had, I could have,  the difference being I could actually afford the stuff without buying a thing on credit.  I always new that the look was just an illusion.  I’m sure there are plenty of folks down there wondering how the hell they’re going to make the lease payment on the car and watching the credit card balance rise every month.  FOOLS! 
BTW, plenty of homes on the market here too, but values aren’t dropping by much, and we got a beautiful new 3200 sq. ft. home on 2 acres with a view for what that POS house in todays blog is listed at.  True, there’s no Bloomingdales, or Nordstrom here but most people live within their means and don’t put on a show, and the stressful life we lived just by virtue of being in Southern California has been dialed back 90%.

I love the energy of this blog - keep it going IrvineRenter.

So Cal needs (not want) a reality check.

HAPPYHEART,

Thank you for posting. I always enjoy reading the life experience of people who “get it.”

Wait a minute… Reality check dude…. proselytizing time is over.

You think Oregon is better than the OC… hmm…. been there, done that… no difference.  In fact, I think OC is far nicer and less judgmental about others than Oregon.  I judge a place by the quality of its people, not about how big your home is…. something you seem very keen on. 

Fact…

You say the OC is like no other…. Ever been to Redmonds, Portland, San Francisco, West New Jersey, Las Vegas, Westwood/Bel Air…. etc, etc….  time to do some travelling and open up your eyes to the world. 

Fact…

You can’t judge people in Orange County from you experience at Fashion Island.  Just like you can’t judge people in Roseburg by the people in Portland, nor people in Fauntleroy by the folks in Redmond.

Fact…

I suggest you get off your high horse because I have seen lots of RE going up in Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona as well… and I daresay those yuppie kids you so much deride are more likely to weather this storm than those folks that bought those new homes in Salem on a 2/28.

Fact…

Jeez… take a drive down Kingman in AZ or Boulder City in NV and see how they’ve built “Laguna Niguel” like homes in the desert to understand that this has NOTHING to do with your distaste for some spolied kids or rich ladies. 

Maybe it’s time for you to stop watching TV.  That crap “Real Housewives… ” is as real as Pamela Anderson’s breasts.

You gotta be kidding, right?

Irvine Renter - I wish I could post the picture I took on my cell phone a few months back of the 30 something bimbo nearly falling out, literally,  of the window in her new Benz at the Windy Ridge toll booth..  Her license plate read SEXY/RICH. She was the epitome of OC.  BIG fake boobs the whole enchilada.  I’ve shown to a few people up here in the REAL world, and the response I get is lots of eye rolling and incredulity.
Yes, I “got it” long ago, when my parents taught me not to buy anything I couldn’t pay cash for, and that having stuff meant nothing if you didn’t have a savings acct.  Also, I don’t plan on Social Security being available when I reach retirement, and since I don’t want my kids to have to take care of me, I save save save in order to be able to financially support myself in comfort one day.  Those Jimmy Choos won’t pay for my groceries when I get old.

Well said.  Love your blog.  Southern California’s housing bubble is built up by the wanna bes’ of the unable supported by the greed of the financial market. 

Somewhere along the line too many people have lost sight of the value of a dollar.  As a child and an immigrant in the 80s, my parents worked extremely hard for their money.  My mom got paid by the pennies for each piece of clothing that she sewed working as a seamstress.  I still remember how much I wanted those material possessions that my peers had.  My parents would always take the time to explain to me why I can’t have those things.  They didn’t go out of their way to borrow up to their asses to make me happy.  I was taught to be thankful and count my blessings for what I have instead of what I could of have.  My life is rich in examples that my parents set for me.

My wife and I are both professionals making good money.  We save and save every penny we can.  We sold our house during the height of the bubble.  Oh, we were happy to have had someone to pay such a bloated price for our home; we laughed all the way to the bank.  With so much money in the bank we were thinking of moving into a better neighborhood.  Guess what, the prices in the better neighborhoods are just as bloated if not worst.  So, we moved out of state to a place where cost of living still makes sense and still bring in 90% of our income.  We are very happy to have done it.  Now, we are saving even more.

Considering how many people who took out interest only loans, worst yet negative amortization loans, on these bloated home prices and doing the math just does not make any good financial sense.  It is even worst for those who have took out fixed mortgages - a lot of them can kiss their hard earned down payment goodbye.  For the interest only variety bunch they don’t have much to loose to begin with I would suspect.

With the doom and gloom overshadowing the Southern California housing market, it looks like we’ll be back soon to find a deal.

Great, great post.

The culture of pretension you describe is not a SolCal thing.

You’ve pretty much described America’s middle classes, especially the more educated, whose educations have mainly taught them how to delude themselves as to who and what they are.

Tonye - Here’s a reality check “dude”. 
I never said Oregon is “better” than Orange County.  I think both places are beautiful in different ways, and there are benefits and drawbacks to both places.  However, it is a FACT that MANY people in OC are pretentious people.  It is just your opinion that folks in Orange County are less judgemental and nicer than people. here.  Really, you must have had a bad experience here as you sound bitter.  Maybe your pretentiousness was on display?  My opinion is that the quality of people here is not less/greater than there.  And I have never judged anyone by the size of their house, I was merely making a comparison about what your $$ buys here as opposed to there.
FACT DUDE - with the exception of New Jersey, I’ve been to all the places you listed.  The places you mention do have real wealth, but it’s not as “in your face” as it is in OC.  IMO
FACT DUDE - I’ve been to places besides Fashion Island -South Coast Plaza, Crystal Cove bla blah blah.  It’s all the same….
FACT DUDE - I would say the real estate market is not good anywhere including here. Your yuppie kids won’t weather the storm any better than the yuppie kids here, so you’d better get off your high horse.  You’re so defensive!
I’ve seen a total of about 20 minutes of Real Housewives and IMO it’s a hoot but also a good representation of the culture down there. 
Have a nice day!

This blog is sickening in how it celebrates the suffering of those who are better than you. Homeowners are the ones that drive the economy, in case you haven’t been paying attention for the past 5 years, while renters are vile creatures that rot away and stink up the place. It’s not our fault that you people were born into the peasant class. Yet you took it upon yourselves to place blame and take everything from us. And do what with it? The situation now is exactly the same as Russia in 1917. You people think you know how to run things, but the outcome will be the same as your communist friends and we will be celebrating your suffering when we take everything back and live in even grander accommodations.

tonye,

I think you are a bit too attached to Orange County. I like it here too, in fact, I think more highly of life here than anywhere else, or I would not live here (I do have other options.)

Nowhere in anything HAPPYHEART said will you find her saying Oregon is better than Orange County. What she was saying is that elements of Orange County’s beliefs and lifestyle are are undesirable (Something I happen to agree with.) She has found happiness in an environment free from these elements. I have found happiness within this environment because I do not get caught up in the BS.

Hi Kirk,

It is good to see you again. You are the most polished blog troll I have ever encountered. Your website is great. I imagine you have made a few heads explode in Texas

You’re nuts.

Kirk is a troll

This is an interesting thread.  I’m going to try to address several things.

Kirk,

You are hilarious.
__________________

Neil?  Neil from the Housing Bubble Blog!  Cool to see you here too!  I rarely post on either forum, but I visit both of them every day and always enjoy reading your posts. 
__________________
As for focusing on pretentiousness at Fashion Island…I find that interesting.  I love Fashion Island.  It’s a beautiful mall.  Yes, people tend to get dressed up to go there…but I kind of like that.  There are plenty of places in the world that you can go to where people don’t get dressed up.  IMO, you kind of have to go out of your way to find a place like Fashion Island…it is what it is…why complain about it.

Born and raised in Irvine, I endorse IR’s cultural take of OC (as well as Happyheart’s).  My folks were originally from the mid-West and never fell into the materialism trap so eloquently described here. 

I’ve lived in a few different parts of the country (I’m no longer in Irvine), and I used to think of the SoCal lifestyle as being specific to SoCal.  Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I do think tonye—ranting aside—is onto something.  There are a bunch of young twenty- and thirty-somethings across the country that have the OC lifestyle, or at least aspire to it.  Perhaps it doesn’t show up in particular cities or counties the way it does in Irvine and OC, but it certainly exists on a generational level.  The steady diet of Laguna Beach, the Real OC, the Housewives of OC, and especially MTV’s Cribs has transcended OC.  There are young adult families in decidedly non-Irvine suburbs that are materialistic and shallow.  This has obviously always existed, but at least on my personal anecdotal level, I think it has spread in historic ways in the last 10 years or so.

There’s still something uniquely nauseating about the materialism in OC, but I think the mindset has sunk in deeper and further than some may think.

Ahhh Crystal Cove… a true gem.  Ignore the Ferrari’s parked in front of the Starbucks and walk down to the heart-breakingly beautiful beach.  Have a Monkeyflip at the Shake Shake and watch the waves.  It always amazes me how empty the beaches are in Orange County (except for Huntington).  Given how many people live here, and how amazing the beaches are, I would expect a crush of people.

IrvineRenter, have you been to Mason park?  It is usually quite deserted, which is amazing because it is such an incredible place.  My wife and I would walk the dogs down from our place in Turtle Rock and enjoy the breezes and the geese.  It was like our personal park.

FYI—

Pamela Anderson has had her implants removed.

Did any of you guys read Kirk’s website?  F*in hilarious.

Well said, IR, but whilst it is true, I have pity instead of disdain for these people.  And although every place has the “look at me, oh please, please look at me” people, OC seems to have a higher concentration so it is more noticable.  It’s too bad they mortgage their lives to buy stuff to try to impress people they don’t know and who couldn’t care less about them.  Note to those who are trying to impress:
1) I don’t know you,
2) I don’t notice you,
3) I’m too busy with my own my own life to care about you.

Ayn Rand said it best in Atlas Shrugged:
Question: What do you think about me? 
Answer: I don’t think about you

Yes, I like Mason Park. I live near there. I have wondered if the plethora of free, neighborhood parks in Irvine made this for-fee regional park superfluous.

Wow, haven’t seen it this heated in a long time…
What’s that expression again??  Opinions are like…..
Have a GREAT weekend everyone.  Whether you are in SoCal, Oregon or wherever you hail from at this particular time.  I’m just glad I have my health and the “opportunity” to read blogs like this as we try to figure out what life is gonna throw us next.  Owners or renters, we are all affected by the economy in one way or the other.  I realize that is stating the obvious but thought I would try to throw out my $.02 since things are starting to get a bit testy around here.

I Agree 100%.

In SoCal you can’t have your teeth white enough, you can’t have your breast big enough, you can’t have your face pretty enough, you can’t have your house nice enough and you can’t have your car newer enough.

When enough is enough?

I only focus in my inner circle and internally laugh at people that try to give me their “I’m super fabulous” impression.

How boring would life be if everyone dressed like you, thought like you, and acted like you?

what’s the address for Kirks website?

Man, your post sounds like something coming from Stephen Colbert   from “The Colbert Report”.

In retrospective makes perfect sense that flippers, bankers and gullible homeowners must have their own Stephen Colbert at this particular dark times, now that everything is crystal clear about the past RE bubble.

This RE Stephen Colbert must have his TV Show and blog full of messages from the past 2-3 years like “there’s not RE bubble”, “RE demand will stay high and interests will stay low”, “bubble heads”, etc.

That will make a good laugh at this particular time, same like the current Stephen Colbert talking about: gun control, war in Iraq, books and creationism.

Click on his name. It will take you right to it.

My mom is currently in town from Minnesota, and she’s staying with us in Quail Hill.  When she goes out for walks during the day with my dog she ponders the audacity of listing prices.

I came home from work yesterday and the first thing out of her mouth was, can I afford 600k mortgage with an income 57k a year income??  Will both instantly laughed. She proceed to tell me how flabberghasted she was about the home prices with a WTF? look on her face.

Now 57k a year is pretty good income for someone in Minneapolis.  When I started to think about it, that number is not much lower than the median income in OC! 

As far as my perception of OC is concerned, I agree for the most part with you all.  I have never seen so many posers in my life. It’s not just the wanna-be rich folks, it’s the dirtbag jacked-up truck drivers, the I-don’t bend the bill of my hat or take the sticker of it wearers, the tattoos bearers, the I wear sunglasses so big that I look like an insect holding a mastercard.  California is full of them.  It is Hollywood personified.

I know there are good ole fashioned honest hardworkers here too, but OC and LA have more posers than anyhwere on earth.

IR,

Check this one out:

http://fairplusbalanced.blogspot.com/2007/08/financial-freedom.html

Our troll is a mad FB.

I thank you for your perspective. If anyone would see the naked truth about peoples finances, it would be you.

When was the last time you did a mortgage based on a 28% DTI or saw a total DTI under 36%?

I will be moving to Laguna Niguel from Cardiff (Encinitas). In December your blog has been very informative. I have not thought too much about The OC people. I’m A cyclist and like the nice weather and many bike lanes/Paths in OC that my main motivation to live there. still renting. never bought. Saving now and paying off pesky debts (student loan, credit cards & car payment).
IR I like your posts. keep it up.

This is a nice blog, I appreciate all your work IR.

For me, it is been a lousy 7 years including first few years of house hunting ; As I am a first time home buyer, I saved every penny to give 10% downpayment and i make decent salary as a soft engg. From 2001-2004, i was looking for a home, every time I made a offer for asking price that was outbidded by someone with more money(2 K - 20K more).  I used to tell my wife that there may be someone in very need for that house, may be they have more kids then us, etc.  I feel now i’m a real moran, those are “f.. flippers”, they sucked hard working reasonable people’s dream just for their greedy.

After 2005, I am so sick of this OC housing market, i lost my interest, and living in Apartment with my two kids; now, seriously looking for a job outside CA and have a decent dreamhome to live with my kids.

Sometimes I feel people’s hard work will go in vain in the vanity of riches;

“If you see oppression of the poor and denial of justice and righteousness in the province, do not be shocked at the sight, for one official watches over another official, and there are higher officials over them. 9 After all, a king who cultivates the field is an advantage to the land. 10 He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity. 11 When good things increase, those who consume them increase. So what is the advantage to their owners except to look on? 12 The sleep of the working man is pleasant, whether he eats little or much. But the full stomach of the rich man does not allow him to sleep.  13 There is a grievous evil which I have seen under the sun: riches being hoarded by their owner to his hurt. 14 When those riches were lost through a bad investment and he had fathered a son, then there was nothing to support him.”(Ecclesiastes 5:8-20)

Pamela Anderson had her implants removed? :(

lendingmaestro—- thanks for the Minnesota reference.  I grew up there (Minnetonka) but have been in CA for 15 years now.  I was just pondering this morning how out of whack what incomes and home prices are here as I was thinking about my sister back in MN. She lives in Maple Grove—a VERY Irvine-esqe Minneapolis suburb.  Try these numbers on for size:  She is a 34 year old single parent who didn’t quite finish her bachelors before life got in the way….She is a Business Analyst for a Health Care company—- Salary is $78,000 + lots of stock options.  Now those numbers sound very nice for Irvine, huh?  But unlike me out here, she is now a 2nd time homeowner—- with her current home a 2005 built 1700 sf townhouse dripping with every luxury appointment imaginable (it would fit in perfectly in Quail Hill except that she has a yard).  The price she paid in 2006?  $229,000.  Almost exactly 3 times income.  And I will say again, this is not some crap area—- Maple Grove is every bit as nice with as good a school district as Irvine.

That said, I’m not leaving.  Hell with that snow.  And I kind of enjoy the entertainment value of all those plastic people at Fashion Island.

Please post the pic!

Another fine week of posting IR!  Lots of laughs!

Let it out…let the reservoir drain!

Your repetition of “logical” made me think of the Logical Song by Supertramp.  Perhaps a good theme song for a future post?

I ran into a realtor acquantance while waiting to play golf the other day. So I ask him how the “market” is going…. He gives me a dirty look and then suddenly softens and starts talking..

“Not too bad”, he says….“Some properties are moving…..mortgage financing is really improving…..I’ve got a real motivated buyer….They are bringing back the “NO DOC” loans…”

So I says, “Liar loans are back? Boy are we in trouble if that is what it takes to prop the real estate market”. I said that without thinking and in retrospect it was rude and tactless. My realtor “friend” gave me another dirty look and stopped talking.

On the first tee this guy shanks the ball and ends up taking a triple bogey on the hole. He’s a single digit handicap golfer…so I guess what I said kind got to him.

Mulligan anyone?

Good attack at the southern california pathology, Mr. IR:-)

It is not just people’s inadequacy about themselves but also a lack of good role models. I mean if you look around, who are the role models for the teens of today? Paris Hilton? Lindsay Lohan? In addition it is also shows what marketing is capable of doing in terms of making people feel inadequate.

Hey happyheart.

Just thinking about Oregon makes me sick.  I used to travel on business
to Portland almost every week. 
The place has no color or life to it.  Lots of strage hicks and homeless.
Its grey, brown and fugly. The people are rude and seem like they have cabin fever from not seeing the sun enough.
I just had a friend sell his home locally and move up to Hillsboro.
He called and wished he could move back. I think it rained for 45 Days
straight and he snapped. Sure houses are cheaper but I am staying
behind the Orange Curtin.  Off to MBLN for the Taste of Laguna Niguel
this afternoon. And yes I will be driving my Benz.  Its paid for. I have 2 of them.  CL500 during the week and my SL55 for the weekends.
Do us all a big favor. Stay in Oregon.

Better be careful, you never know who is on the brink of financial disaster. I keep my negative, (ok extremely negative) comments on the blogs. Everyone I know owns a home and believes it is worth a bizillion dollars….............they have know idea what is brewing in the markets…....and they believe that the problems are everywhere but Irvine.

I am with BLT Bill, but don’t advertise that.

OR is wonderful, all you imports to OC should move up there!

Jenna Jameson too.

No problem Mr. Big Pants you don’t have to worry about me returning to So. Cal. I’ll be happy to visit now and then.  Thanks for proving my point with your condescending attitude towards anybody not in the OC.  Good for you that you own your Benz’ too.  Obviously you haven’t spent time in SOUTHERN Oregon.  There’s plenty of greenery because unlike So. Cal we do get rain from time to time.  Unlike the northern part of Oregon it doesn’t rain every day.  We have 4 great seasons!  Other than letting everyone know you have two Benz’ (as if anyone cares) why are YOU so defensive about where you live?  As I said originally, Orange County is beautiful,  as is Oregon/Hawaii/Arizona and almost anywhere on earth.  But I think you would have to agree that in terms of superficiallity Orange county is simply unmatched.
Oh, BTW, you drink the unclaimed water from the Inland Empire!  However YOU probably pay $ to drink the bottled water that comes from the tap!
Have a nice day!

Sure am glad we don’t have those narrow-minded hicks down here, huh?

We have nothing but well educated, kind, open-minded, highly paid people here.  Let’s keep it that way.

Sorry, forgot the closing tag:

’

Try again:

{/SARCASM}

OK, it worked.

Wish I could - it’s funny.  But I don’t want to get sued to help her pay on her 2/28.

Shocking move by FED.
http://thegreatloanblog.blogspot.com/

Broad implications for the depth of the credit crunch. This will have a profound effect on markets on Monday.

A few here and there. The majority of full-doc loans are always confoming loan amounts.  The typical DTI is around 35-45%. I can sometimes get conforming approvals up to 65% DTI. 

The max DTI for an Alt-A neg am loan is either 40% or 42%.  Is is very wrong to use that fannie and freddie purchase better quality loans then the investors that purchased alt-a loans.

Jim - I think you’re on to something too. The shows that you mentioned - Laguna Beach, the Real OC, the Housewives of OC, and MTV’s Cribs - make me sick to my stomach because they perpetuate the idea that it’s cool to be obsessed with material products and possess a sense of selfish, arrogant entitlement. Since these shows feature “real” people (who in reality, for the most part were either were born into wealth or married into it), the obvious thing to do would be to strive to emulate them…after all, they’re on TV so they must be worth emulating, right?

And wouldn’t it be convenient if that, during your quest to show off to the world how successful you are (even if you aren’t, go ahead and see how many people you can fool!), you could get an obscene amount of money from a lender so you could “buy” a larger, more extravagant house than you need and can afford, without so much as asking to see proof of how much money you were earning?

Bring on the correction.

If you can be patient for a couple more years, you will have your day.

Strike “unclaimed” should read “reclaimed”.  That’s right Chuck Ponzi.  Nobody in Oregon is educated.  We all live in singlewides with our hogs and chickens right outside the door!  We don’t worry about having white teeth here…there’s not a whole set in the whole state.  Thanks for your sarcasm.  I think BLT Bill got blinded by his bling and takes himself seriously.  Glad to hear he plans to stay where he is.  OC deserves his ilk.

Sued for what?  She was in public!

“Troll”, “fascist”, “mentally disturbed”. I’ve had all these things said about me and more. Yet I persevere, because Christ loves me and hates most others. He will never allow me to lose my home since I have planted a seed, $15,000 from my IRA, with the help of Benny Hinn, His messenger of compassion. This one seed will grow into a mighty forest of wealth that will eclipse all those around me and allow me to execute His vengeance upon the wicked by corning the real estate market in Corpus and shutting out those whom lack faith in the Lord. We’ll see who enjoys watching people suffer more. You people, or me and Jesus.

What type of profound effect?

LOL!

Hey Happyheart

Why would someone so happy in Oregon be posting on a Irvine
board ???  Cant say I spend much time on any Oregonian boards ?
Missing home just a bit are we ?

I will think about my friend in Oregon that moved to Hillsboro
The highlight of his conversation is when he talks about how much he enjoys his Mule.  Horses are great. But to say you are happy you moved and then talk about your mule.  Yikes.  Guess I just dont get
the whole beauty of Oregon. Damn. Time to get a pickup truck
and chew some Red Man.

As far as the water. Irvine water is not that bad from the tap.

Time to put the top down. And yes my GF may get a boob job
next month.  As long as I dont have to deal with a mule I will be
just fine down here is good old Irvine. 

To get back to RE.  CountryWide is toast.  Down again today.
In the teens next week.

Good question. The answer which seems most obvious is often wrong. Did you know the markets rallied 120 points the day after the London bombings?

If the market goes up, pundits will claim it was because the FED acted appropriately. If it goes down, pundits will claim the FED scared the market.

People who understand what this means should be selling, particularly stocks of financials like the banks mentioned. They must be in deep $hit to need that kind of help.

That is enough. You are the second person today to read more into HAPPYHEART’s comment than was there.

There’s a lawyer for everything, right?  Probably for using her likeness, image, whatever without her expressed permission.  Her license plate is clearly visible in the picture.  She would probably win enough in court to pay for another plastic surgery procedure.  Not taking the chance.

Actually, I prefer Hawai’i to the Mainland.

The issue that I have with such comments is that they are as shallow and stereotyped as the people they accuse.  It’s the old “I’m better than you and you deserve it…”.

You get these people who move out and into their own “private idahoes” and then tell the rest of us how we are so awful.  And mind you, this has nothing to do with OC, you will see people move from Ohio to Chicago and do the same thing.

What it comes down to is that you can not pick on a whole region based upon the behavior of the few (or even the not so few).  You will find nice, honest, hardworking people in Roseburg, Redmonds, Newport Beach, Manhattan, Mililani, Irvine, etc… if you yoursefl are nice, honest and hardworking.  I have me some of the nicest people in all of those places.  Some were richer than God, some were just making a living, but they were all very nice, very honest and very self deprecating.

OTOH, if you are self righteous and self centered you will find such people in Pocatello, Virginia City, etc…. 

As a rule of thumb, the attitude of the observer is reflected on their interpretation of their environment.  Read Albert Kuhn and his “Philosophy of Science” for some insight into this.  It’s impossible for the observer to disassociate his/her prejudices from his/her observations.

That’s why I was (am) surprised that you would support such an attitude.

Irvine Renter - Why are your posters so damn defensive?!

Well… that sucks.

I submit.
Have a great weekend IrvineRenter.
Love your site. I wont trash talk it up.
But the Oregon troll got me going.

Dude…  sorry man… but before you attack me ad hominem you better look at yourself in the mirror.

Pretentious… oh boy… so maybe there are pretentious people in OC… so what?  How about your neighboorhood?  Maybe not pretentious, but smug and self righteous…. personally, I’ll take the pretentious because they are more fun to watch and leave me alone.

The problem with the RE market is worse in areas like Palmdale, Moreno Valley, Riverside, etc…. than it is in Newport Beach and Irvine. 

Me?  I’m pretty mellow about things.. I don’t pass judgment as you do… I just observe and let live.  If someone wants to flaunt their money, hey I enjoy the show.  Why should you give a hoot about what they do?

That’s is one of the strengths in Southern California in general.  The general laiser faire attitude amongst the population.

I got a feeling that you are the one that is defensive.  If you live in a glass house you shouldn’t be throwing stones, eh?

I got interested in the RE world after having our So.Cal house on the market 13 months.  Fell out of escrow twice before it finally sold to buyers with 100% financing just as the subprime market was imploding in March.  I love this blog as well as others as it is a good barometer of what’s going on in the financial world, particularly Southern Cal.  Also, my daughter attends UCI so it’s relevant to where she lives.  I’ve learned so much from this blog and others like it - you could say I’m hooked.
There are things about So. Cal I miss, Trader Joes/Ann Taylor Loft/Nordstroms variety of restaurants etc.  Some things I don’t miss are the nasty air, congestion, and artificial people.
As for your friend enjoying his mule - mules are MUCH smarter than horses.  You don’t have to drive a pickup or chew RedMan up here.  In fact your Benz would fit in just fine.  There’s even a Benz dealership in our town.  Hope your girlfriend enjoys her boob job.  As long as she feels better about herself that’s all that matters…..

The funny part is that we had a real blog troll today in Kurt, and nobody got wound up.

No worries. Have a good weekend.

I would speculate there must be something in the air or the water, but then they might turn on me

I don’t know. They are both good guys. They post here quite a bit. Don’t take offense. We will all be one big happy family soon enough…

Come on…. you guys actually believe those TV shows?  You assume that OC is like those shows?  Jeez… who is more culturally shallow?

You guys remind me of the guy in Spinal Tap: “I read a lot and I believe everything I read”.....

Hmm.. you don’t suppose that everyone in LA county is like those folks in Baywatch, huh?

It’s a nice place to ride your bike.  And then it’s free!

IrvineRenter
Just redid my lease at Quail Ridge.  They raised my rent $ 10.00 a month.  So Irvine rents are not exploding right now. 
Wow.
I thought I was going a bit agro. Kurt is ready for the rubber room.
Thanks again man.

And HappyHeart have a good weekend too. 
I feel for you. No Trader Joes and I too would be bumming.
Hope your daughter does well at UCI. Go Ant Eaters !!!
My son is getting ready to become an OC Sheriff next year.

Don’t let the NAR let in increase in new home sales trick you.  All those purchases that closed in July were ratelocked in June or early July.  Long Before the massive collapse that started on Aug 4th

I think The Idea is that BLT will Feel Better about her self.
~

Or is it feel her self? well you get the idea.

I agree, the mindset is certainly not limited to the OC - it is everywhere.  I grew up in New York and have lived in Chicago, Iowa, San Fran and Albuquerque - it is everywhere.

I remember when Lucky, InStyle and Us came out and couldn’t believe that someone had the audacity to publish magazines purely devoted to shopping and celebrity - no surprise that each does phenomenally well while Atlantic Monthly and Harper’s (not Harper’s Bazaar) wallow.  Be that as it may, I don’t see why shallow consumerism upsets people - live your own life and if you really wanna be snarky see how to capitalize on it, turn it to your advantage.  Beware digression - I was in the Hamptons in Summer 2000 and watched people fall over themselves to get in Hamptons magazine.  They were all wannabe celebutants dying to get recognized for nothing other in life than showing up and being pretty.  I actually met an investor in the mag who also had a stake in Gotham (Manhattan) and Ocean Drive (Miami) and told him he needed to jump on the OC bandwagon - sure enough a year later Riviera showed up.  I wish I had been the one with initiative.

The moral - it’s not just OC and don’t get upset - live your own life.  I’ll only get upset if the gov’t winds up bailing anyone out of this thing.

Of course everyone who lives in LA could have been on Baywatch…just like anyone who is in the funeral business must look and act like the cast of Six Feet Under

Tonye, I don’t “believe” the TV shows…the people in them are not representative of all the people who in the area, by any stretch. My problem is what these shows stand for - that acting shallow, bratty, materialistic and entitled to wealth is attractive enough to make people want to see on TV.

Don’t forget the power of a network like MTV, considering how many teenagers watch. By glamorizing the above behavior by putting it on TV, viewers are being subliminally told these traits are not only OK, but desirable. After all, they are important enough to be followed around by camera crews and seen by millions of viewers, right?

I also don’t like that many of the shows take place in OC or SoCal, because the few people on them don’t always make everyone else look very good, IMO…particularly those Real Housewives of OC that IR mentioned. As an Orange County native, I would like to think we deserve a better representation than that.

Have a great weekend!

Jenna too???  :( :(

LOL..that hit the nail on the head with me.  I’ve learned to keep my mouth completely shut and just smile and nod when the topic turns to real estate.

I wanna pony!

Bill - you don’t even realize that you are exactly the type of mental that Irvinerenter was pointing out.  We don’t care that you have 2 Mercedes, but you obviously (and sadly) think they are important.

What’s up with tonye?  I go out of my way to agree with him, and he basically says I’m an idiot.  Whatever.

TangerineSpeedo brings up the obvious cultural thing I meant to mention, and that is the obsession with celebrity.  It’s always existed, but not the way it has in the past 15 years or so.

As far as the shows go, I’m not a prude.  I get a kick out of them.  I’d like to think they don’t influence my attitudes and personal behavior too much (for ex: I don’t emulate the materialism, at least not more than before viewing the programs).  I find it entertaining.  Same goes for strolling around Fashion Island or the Spectrum. 

But yeah, call me judgmental if you want, but I do think certain cultural changes aren’t ideal, particularly if entire generations come to adulthood with irresponsible habits and desires.  The generation that lived through the Great Depression never forgot the value of a dollar.  (That culture could get taken too far, too: my Great Depression surviving grandfather criticized me when he found out I had a car payment.  If I couldn’t pay cash for everything, then he thought it should never be purchased. That’s stupid.)  Certain cultural traits affect the entire society in tangible ways.  Not everything in a culture is good or indifferent.

And while a live and let live attitude is mostly fine (and I mostly agree with it), the fact that our society has a negative savings rate, has jacked up the real estate market to historic proportions, knows more about Britney Spears than, say, Iraq’s non-role in 9/11 does effect me.  I think this blog’s discussion of the role of culture in the housing bubble is significant, and not something that occurs in a vacuum.  Some people are having difficultly “living their own lives,” as TangSpeedo put it, because of this stuff.  While I’m personally not “upset” about this particular stuff on a day to day basis, certain things do concern me.  I’m concerned that too many Americans have their priorities out of whack, and such priorities (in terms of stock market, the nation’s economic health, etc) do sometimes effect my life.

I moved to the OC in ‘69…before there was a Dana Point Marina,  or much of anything except little beach towns and orange groves.  It was so perfect in those days.  There wasn’t much money in the OC back then, so we all just enjoyed the beach and the great weather. Then, the “money” moved in and the great build out begin.  Paradise Lost.

Last year I moved to Portland, OR.  I have to say, this place is refreshing.  Its true, no one cares what you wear or what kind of car you drive ( they do care how “green” one is, tho).  I love it here, but Laguna will always be in my heart and my “hometown”. 
I worked in Irvine for many, many years and reading about the neighborhoods on this blog makes me feel at home, sad as it is for some homeowners.

Jim E.

Your comment did a great job of capturing the sentiment and importance of the post. As I reread the post and the comments, I was starting to become concerned that the connection between this behavior and the housing market—and ultimately our lives—was lost.

I don’t spend much time thinking about these people except when their behavior begins to impact my life, which it has with the housing bubble.

Enjoy the drivers doing 55mph on a 65 mph freeway in OR.  Enjoy the cops giving tickets for 1 mph over the limit.

Enjoy the people who have never left their home county and/or lived in Portland and never gone to Mt. Hood (40 min away by car).

Enjoy the traffic and the drizzle.

Enjoy the really bad roads since 6 months out of the year spikes are allowed in & on Portland freeways, where it might snow 1-2 times per year.  This totally destroys the roads.  They repaved 215 and within 6 months of winter it was bad to its horrible state.

Enjoy the really bad schools.

Enjoy the underfunded, falling apart and overly expensive Oregon University System.

Enjoy the schizophrenic state government, with ultra-liberals in Portland that don’t want any taxes and ultra-conservatives everywhere else outside the Urban Growth Boundary.

For the most part (excepting Nike) most professional services in Portland, sell & travel to California.

Enjoy the retails shops that open at 9am and close at 5pm M-F, are open 8-12 on Sat and closed on Sunday.  No wonder the economy sucks, you have to take off of work to go spend some money.

Nothing makes a Portlander happier than standing in a line and nothing pisses them off more if you go around them.

Here is somebody else’s take on it.
http://www.knick-knack.com/rants/places/portland-oregon-sucks.html

Yes, I lived there.

Good Beer though, all the clowns giving California a bad name should go there.

I have thought to move the family to Oregon a couple of times. The last time was during football season a couple of years ago. I watched the Oregon Ducks play in November on a rainy day. They said it had rained the last 21 consecutive days in Eugene. I knew right then I could not live there.

Where did the punch bowl go?
http://thegreatloanblog.blogspot.com

I agree with Happy Heart as well.  The last area we lived in (suburb of a metropolitan city) had an average family income 1.5 times Irvine’s, but the culture was much more like that Happy Heart describes in Oregon.

I too find watching the ladies all decked out with the little dogs facinating ... I thought that was something made up for “Legally Blonde”, was so surprised that unlike most Hollywood stuff, it wasn’t made up.

Well Written. Truer words were never spoken. I’ve seen this market drop 10% to 15%. and am waiting for the next 25%. I don’t follow or have access to the opened escrow numbers. It seems to me like we need a major event, like a period of no new escrows, to shock this market into further declines. I experienced the 1990 decline first hand, and it seemed more swift.

It boggles my mind that there are still people willing to plop down over $400 per sq. foot at this stage. Unfortunately these are the people delaying price declines.

I have fun playing the opposite card.  I go on about how awesome Costco is and it’s so great to have a nice tree lined sidewalk to walk on so you don’t have to drive to the store, etc. and it’s so cool.

The reactions are hilarious.

Interview from Dr. Laura’s show that fits well with today’s topic.

http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2007/08/22/suzanne-researched-this-part-2/